The RedCafe Boxing Thread

If I’m in AJ’s camp there is no way I’m letting him get in a ring with Wilder. He can still have a solid few more pay days to pad him out but Wilder is all wrong for him.

AJ is a very average “boxer” which is his style now, he’s still leagues ahead of Wilder on that front though. But Wilder can hit harder than anything AJ has ever taken, I just think Wilder would blast through this tentative AJ we have now and I doubt AJ is willing to fight fire with fire anymore.
 
DixieDean said:
You're all talking like wilder is some flawless HW phenom who looks unbeatable. The dude has a all time great punch. But technically he's miles behind AJ. And it' not like he has a iron chin himself. I've seen him dropped/rocked multiple times. If AJ lands clean, he'll stop him. That fight is not going more than 4 rounds and is a toss up.
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AJ honestly looks amateur still to me when he's trying to box. Like, actually amateur level. I used to train and he moves the same way guys moved that were just starting out. Even last night, saying he can't find the right hand. That's because he doesn't know how to box well. How he is still learning on the job at this stage is ridiculous.
 
DixieDean said:
You're all talking like wilder is some flawless HW phenom who looks unbeatable. The dude has a all time great punch. But technically he's miles behind AJ. And it' not like he has a iron chin himself. I've seen him dropped/rocked multiple times. If AJ lands clean, he'll stop him. That fight is not going more than 4 rounds and is a toss up.
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For me, it's more that Wilder doesn't appear to be as mentally troubled by the defeats to Fury as AJ is to Ruiz/Usyk. They're both limited but Wilder doesn't seem to have that nervous energy that is absolutely radiating with AJ currently.
 
pocco said:
AJ honestly looks amateur still to me when he's trying to box. Like, actually amateur level. I used to train and he moves the same way guys moved that were just starting out. Even last night, saying he can't find the right hand. That's because he doesn't know how to box well. How he is still learning on the job at this stage is ridiculous.
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Well, he started boxing late and that will always hold him back to some extent. The fundamentals were not there at a young age. But! Wilder was also a late starter and has some massive holes in his game. Of course, he has the equalizer which could knockout anyone so it's always going to be tough against him for that reason. If Wilder had a iron chin he would be a nightmare match up. I'm on the fence in that fight.

Thinking about it, this fight is the biggest who lands clean first fight I've seen in a long time.
 
Agree with most that I can't see him beating Wilder at this point. Looks like he's having to completely relearn basics at the moment and doesn't look natural / nothing is slowing. Combined that with him looking more upright and stiff and a bit slower, and his defense has never been great, I'm confident Wilder will find a home for the right hand early. There's a big gap mentality wise there at the moment and Wilder will sense that and pounce.
 
SilentWitness said:
For me, it's more that Wilder doesn't appear to be as mentally troubled by the defeats to Fury as AJ is to Ruiz/Usyk. They're both limited but Wilder doesn't seem to have that nervous energy that is absolutely radiating with AJ currently.
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This is absolutely on point.
 
SilentWitness said:
For me, it's more that Wilder doesn't appear to be as mentally troubled by the defeats to Fury as AJ is to Ruiz/Usyk. They're both limited but Wilder doesn't seem to have that nervous energy that is absolutely radiating with AJ currently.
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I’m assuming you must be talking about out of the ring, because the Fury fight was almost two years ago and we’ve seen Wilder boxing for all of three minutes since.

There’s obviously way more evidence to judge AJ on since his knockout.
 
DixieDean said:
Well, he started boxing late and that will always hold him back to some extent. The fundamentals were not there at a young age. But! Wilder was also a late starter and has some massive holes in his game. Of course, he has the equalizer which could knockout anyone so it's always going to be tough against him for that reason. If Wilder had a iron chin he would be a nightmare match up. I'm on the fence in that fight.

Thinking about it, this fight is the biggest who lands clean first fight I've seen in a long time.
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Yeah neither are particularly great boxers. I think Wilder can get by a bit when he does fight behind the jab, which I've only seen him do against Fury once. Like others have said, normally it would be a bit of a toss up, but I just don't think AJ ever had the fundamentals to deal with Wilders wild "swing for the hills" approach and it'd put him on the back foot where he really withers. But now, this current AJ, I just think he's too scared to go toe to toe and make it a toss up. I reckon he'll only let his hands go when Wilder has him hurt, and it'll be curtains for him.
 
Dan_F said:
I’m assuming you must be talking about out of the ring, because the Fury fight was almost two years ago and we’ve seen Wilder boxing for all of three minutes since.

There’s obviously way more evidence to judge AJ on since his knockout.
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AJ has fought three times since the last Wilder/Fury fight and looked rubbish and nervy in all three aside from last nights knockout which has been the only glimpse of the 'old' AJ. Wilder looked far less nervous against Helenius and also I don't think he looked nervous in any of the Fury fights, at least not to the standard AJ has in his past few. Wilder was and always has been known for his power and he had no problem in trying to unleash that in his last fight right from the off.
 
Leg-End said:
If I’m in AJ’s camp there is no way I’m letting him get in a ring with Wilder. He can still have a solid few more pay days to pad him out but Wilder is all wrong for him.

AJ is a very average “boxer” which is his style now, he’s still leagues ahead of Wilder on that front though. But Wilder can hit harder than anything AJ has ever taken, I just think Wilder would blast through this tentative AJ we have now and I doubt AJ is willing to fight fire with fire anymore.
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It’s very clear they’re cashing out AJ. Everyone knows it except probably AJ himself.
 
The commenters I was listening on recently wondered how many fights AJ still had in him and I think they said something like 3 tops. Seems that was too optimistic still.

I wish they'd finally get on with that mirage of the Saudi mega-event. I know it's slowly happening (Usyk signed some deal over there, right ?) maybe once everyone cashed out their final checks the heavyweight division can finally move on.
 
He's one loss away from retirement I reckon, which will probably be against Wilder.
 
Heavyweights can fight for a long time. 33 would be no age to retire but AJ is mega rich so I dunno if he would if he loses the next fight.

For the wilder fight, AJ must be aggressive from the off and go for the KO from the first minute. He'll have to take a huge risk, but I've seen Wilder backed up by weaker punches than AJ. And if they tie up, the uppercut could be huge for him.
 
He always looks worried when he steps into the ring. Combined with the shit banter and some of the cryptic remarks about injuries over the years it makes me wonder if AJ suffered some proper brain damage against Ruiz or something. If so, I have to really question why he wants to fight, he must have earned untold millions over the years, just retire.
 
Who do you think would have won the fight if Whyte didn't fail his drug test?

I feel Whyte would have put it on him and eventually broke him down as I can't see AJ taking the risks and I don't think he's good enough to keep Whyte at arms length with his boxing ability.
 
SambaBoy said:
Who do you think would have won the fight if Whyte didn't fail his drug test?

I feel Whyte would have put it on him and eventually broke him down as I can't see AJ taking the risks and I don't think he's good enough to keep Whyte at arms length with his boxing ability.
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Whyte is in a similar position to AJ now in that he's a bit damaged. But he certainly could have beat AJ on that display.
 
Leg-End said:
If I’m in AJ’s camp there is no way I’m letting him get in a ring with Wilder. He can still have a solid few more pay days to pad him out but Wilder is all wrong for him.

AJ is a very average “boxer” which is his style now, he’s still leagues ahead of Wilder on that front though. But Wilder can hit harder than anything AJ has ever taken, I just think Wilder would blast through this tentative AJ we have now and I doubt AJ is willing to fight fire with fire anymore.
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Agree.
Fairly sure Wilder is good enough to hang with him until he puts the lights out finisher on AJ.
Joshua should be hoping for more domestic dust ups against the likes of Dubois, Clarke, Fisher and maybe Joyce rather than running with the big dogs.
His time has been and gone.
 
Someone said it earlier, AJ just radiates nervous energy in the ring now, Wilder would pounce all over it. AJ pre-Ruiz probably accepts it’s a connect first fight and just goes for it, my fear is AJ now thinks he could box to a win like Fury and he doesn’t have it in his locker.

If AJ dodged Wilders big punches for 12 rounds and gets a decision it would be a miracle.
 
cyberman said:
But it is true? Fury dominated him for three fights and before that he fought Ortiz who had won every single round until Wilder landed the shot
If people can point to 4 rounds he’s won in the last four fights Id be shocked
(Edit I don’t include his last comeback fight to be fair, same way I don’t really count Joshua’s knockout last night)
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Wilder is no world class boxer but he's an absolute warrior with insane power that's capable of taking shots as well. And most importantly like somebody pointed out before, it's a confidence thing. Wilder may not have fought much but his whole demeanour and personality oozes confidence, he clearly believes in himself. He won't come to box Joshua, he will come to take his head off. Meanwhile I honestly believe Joshua will come to try to box Wilder instead of fully going toe to toe, which is a terrible strategy because he's not technically good enough to make it work. Joshua is going in against guys like Helenius and Franklin and trying to outbox them, he's stepped away from what actually made him successful in the first place. Wilder meanwhile knows his strength and goes in at lightning speed. He did get out boxed for the most part against Ortiz but still survived and beat him twice. Joshua's face looked beat up against Helenius ffs because he's trying to box with him instead of going in there and putting it on him. If Wilder get's the openings that the likes of Helenius and others have, he'll have a field day and it's clear Joshua's chin is probably the most suspect out of every top heavyweight.

It just feels like a huge fall from grace. A guy that was being marketed by Eddie Hearn as some great olympic athlete and 'good' all around guy to make millions and millions for Hearn, who was protected quite a lot in the media. As soon as he got knocked out all of that changed. Bizarre interviews, doesn't give a shit about what the fans think, atmospheres at the fights getting worst and worst, no longer 'mr nice guy' and is being marketed completely different, completely stepped away from the style that got him to the top and so on. At least with the likes of Wilder it's what you see is what you get, with Joshua it felt fake and a complete money grab and marketing con from day one which has now gone down the shitter which is why we are seeing more and more mental post fight interviews and more and more crazy comments from him, the mask is off and he doesn't give a shit anymore.
 
What a mouthpiece Frank Warren is. Just seen ol' fisheyes coming out with nonsense about how if Joshua beats Wilder it doesn't matter. Then in the same breath he suggests Joshua isn't going to win. Apparently he's a bit too dense to realise the inconsistency of his own internal logic there. Oh alright Frank let's not bother with Wilder/Joshua then, rubbish fight - why don't we see Joshua v Stipe Miocic.

He has some cheek even coming out with that to be honest as his man fights a cage fighter in what is essentially a glorified exhibition.

Stop talking a good game and put the fecking fights on that we want to see in the first place. If these fellas were half as good at putting on the fights (i.e. Fury/Joshua which should have been made aeons ago) as they are at trying to discredit rivals and talk rubbish we'd have a thriving sport.
 
Abraxas said:
What a mouthpiece Frank Warren is. Just seen ol' fisheyes coming out with nonsense about how if Joshua beats Wilder it doesn't matter. Then in the same breath he suggests Joshua isn't going to win. Apparently he's a bit too dense to realise the inconsistency of his own internal logic there. Oh alright Frank let's not bother with Wilder/Joshua then, rubbish fight - why don't we see Joshua v Stipe Miocic.

He has some cheek even coming out with that to be honest as his man fights a cage fighter in what is essentially a glorified exhibition.

Stop talking a good game and put the fecking fights on that we want to see in the first place. If these fellas were half as good at putting on the fights (i.e. Fury/Joshua which should have been made aeons ago) as they are at trying to discredit rivals and talk rubbish we'd have a thriving sport.
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Uber drivers. Rock climbers. Sand miners.

We sent contracts to em all.
 
Got to give Dubois credit, he looks in the best possible shape for this fight. He usually comes in at 240 but being closer to 230 seems a much wiser move than coming in heavy.

Usyk didn't look as ripped as he has looked since stepping up. Complacency might play a part here because there is no real hype around this fight.
 
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Dont see Usyk being complacent for this but im interested to see how he gets on. He is 36 now, those camps are getting harder and he is going to start slowing down a bit. Those championship rounds where he goes into overdrive are going to be harder to maintain. Im sure fury will be looking for signs aswell.

Cant see Dubois pulling an upset but you never know i guess. Rooting for Usyk though, special talent.
 
Yeah didn't look low at the time, looked even clearer on the replay
 
Yep, Dubois should’ve won the fight with that. Big error by the ref
 
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