Bingo 100%.
The RedCafe Boxing Thread
- Thread starter CLK_FPC
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What else do we have, genuinely? We've never done well at HW. We'll have to look at Cooper, who, with the greatest respect, was pretty shit across the border, and Bugner. Haye? The competition modest, to say the least.
Fighting Joshua, who was considered the best in the world, for double the money and 3x the belt is somehow considered the worse choice to you? What are you even trying to say?
Maybe he would. Which is all the more reason why it's ridiculous that a.) Joshua had to offer to fight him and not the other way around, and b.) he actually turned down the offer that was worth more money, more belts and more prestige.
Incredible.
Didn't catch that one. He is being super protected is he?
I think a prime Haye with his explosive style and fast hands would of been a nightmare for AJ.
Possibly. Haye was one of the few CW's who carried his KO power forward. But then I think if he fought the same WK AJ fought he would've still lost. Either way I think an argument could still be made for AJ to be in the top 3 HWs Britain has produced, which says how poor we've been in this weight class!
Fury beats AJ and Usyk.
Hadn’t Fury just come back at that point though? He’d had like 1 fight in almost 4 years and weight about 45 stone and was on the beer, I watched his interview with Gary Neville lately and he used Wilder ‘trash talking’ him as a motivation to get back to his best.
At that moment in time AJ would have probably beaten him due to the circumstances but if we’re talking about a 100% AJ vs 100% Fury my money is on Fury everytime.
They’ll never fight now. Fury will beat wilder again but AJ will be tied up in his rematch from tonight in the meantime the number 1 challenger for Fury’s WBC title will come up boxing is such a stupid sport.
It being away from home, where a decision is extremely difficult to come by, yes I'd say so. You could maybe make an argument for Vlad but he was beltless, at Wembley, and at retirement age.
Joshua has only ever fought at home except for once, when he got badly beaten up. That's a big mark against him in the resume argument.
If you think the retirement age Vlad who's invincible aura was long gone, at home with friendly judges was tougher than the one Fury fought then we're never going to agree.
You're right that the rank and file of Joshua's CV is better than that of Fury's, but Fury has more, and bigger, headlines.
Also, this is about it being better pre Usyk. That is a big name (with a big L next to it) on AJ's record.
Found a message I posted to my friends back in April 2019 where I said Usyk would be the “Anthony Joshua Killer”.
Vindicated. Fantastic performance.
Absolutely love the man.
Vindicated. Fantastic performance.
Absolutely love the man.
Right, so how is this a negative on Joshua? Bear in mind he had offered the fight, as well as offered to fight Wilder, as well as _actually_ fighting the best of the rest. Fury's condition is his own issue. I'm genuinely not sure what point you're trying to make.
What? Did you reply to the wrong post?
He got knocked out. It could've been his dad as ref and it wouldn't have mattered. And his 'aura' was gone in one fight? Equally, and in WK's own words, he didn't prepare for the Fury fight like he did AJ. Game plan and physical fitness was different gravy.
So now you're acknowledging that Joshua had taken the harder fights. What's the problem then? Pre Uysk and it's still incredibly lopsided.
That isn't what I said at all, I said the rank and file (who they're both miles better than) of Joshua's CV is a bit better, but Fury has more headlines, and they're better than Joshua's headlines. That to me makes Fury's CV better, rather than a slightly higher calibre of bums in filler fights.
Anyway, you've gone from rating one day from retired Vlad over undisputed champion Vlad (which I disagree, but it's your opinion), to completely misrepresenting my arguments, which means this is pointless. As you said earlier, this is all subjective anyway, so lets agree to disagree as it's only gonna get more circular, and having to deal with strawman arguments is beyond what I can be bothered with.
Your second paragraph isn't true but fair enough if you think Wilder is harder than any fight AJ has had. I'll respectfully disagree.
When else has Joshua travelled abroad for fights at the top level? If I'm wrong then I'm wrong, but I only know of the Ruiz fight.
As for disagreeing, that's fair, it's a subjective thing, the biggest takeaway for me is that it's quite close with people making arguments both ways.
The minute he had that Apollo Creed style entrance followed by playing the song that plays in Rocky after Apollo dies... You knew he's getting beaten the feck up 
Usyk is the best boxer ever lived anyone says different doesn’t know boxing..
The minute he had that Apollo Creed style entrance followed by playing the song that plays in Rocky after Apollo dies... You knew he's getting beaten the feck up
Wasn't that the very definition of hubris?
Absolute class from Usyk in fairness, superb boxer.
Two of those cards were waaay too lopsided imo. I had it 114-114 personally. 115-113 for either would have been fine, but 117-112??? How?
Usyk is small and he never had exceptional KO power in the first place, otherwise he'd dominate the division. Technically he's quite obviously the best HW around right now with Fury
Think AJ can beat him in a rematch, but he needs to fight more behind the jab and be more aggressive, come forward more, force Usyk to take more risks. And put in more work to the body. Can't be the one in survival mode in the 12th round...
Usyk is small and he never had exceptional KO power in the first place, otherwise he'd dominate the division. Technically he's quite obviously the best HW around right now with Fury
Think AJ can beat him in a rematch, but he needs to fight more behind the jab and be more aggressive, come forward more, force Usyk to take more risks. And put in more work to the body. Can't be the one in survival mode in the 12th round...
Fantastic performance from Usyk, thoroughly deserved the victory and glad to see the judges called it correct.
AJ simply wasn't busy enough for me. Hindsight is a wonderful thing but I can understand the approach of letting Usyk tire early on and going for the win late. That he was still dancing in the championship rounds with that extra weight is a real testament to him. AJ barely threw a combination all night, he gave the judges no option really.
AJ just looked like he lacked confidence the whole fight. Maybe the left hand he caught early, mostly on the neck, hurt him. Maybe the ruiz memories held him back some. Maybe he just had an off night, that's top level sport, it happens.
The rematch could be a cracker though because AJ really has no choice but to go the other way. He'll beef up to feck and throw bombs for as long as he can. Could spark Usyk or be completely dead on his feet by round 6
AJ simply wasn't busy enough for me. Hindsight is a wonderful thing but I can understand the approach of letting Usyk tire early on and going for the win late. That he was still dancing in the championship rounds with that extra weight is a real testament to him. AJ barely threw a combination all night, he gave the judges no option really.
AJ just looked like he lacked confidence the whole fight. Maybe the left hand he caught early, mostly on the neck, hurt him. Maybe the ruiz memories held him back some. Maybe he just had an off night, that's top level sport, it happens.
The rematch could be a cracker though because AJ really has no choice but to go the other way. He'll beef up to feck and throw bombs for as long as he can. Could spark Usyk or be completely dead on his feet by round 6
Tough fight for AJ ... was not confident at all because Usyk on paper is exactly what should be his kryptonite - fast moving, bundles of stamina and ring craft. There was a gulf in class.
It’s not the worst loss for AJ because it proves he would have been schooled by Fury but does he have it in him to learn from the defeat? Possibly but may also be an indication that this is his ceiling as a boxer and he can’t take it any further.
Could he have let his hands go more? Yes but you also need to be able to work the opportunities to be able to do that and he just was so slow in terms of his combinations and Usyk showed no let down in concentration or movement - a truly world class fighter.
Wilder for me has a much better chin than AJ and that alone puts him in a higher category as he is more prepared to get hurt to let that bomb detonate whereas AJ has scars in that respect even though he is superior technically.
Fury is different gravy to both and would love to see him fight Usyk. It wouldn’t be super interesting for the neutral but for the purist it will be a very technical fight and come down to points.
It’s not the worst loss for AJ because it proves he would have been schooled by Fury but does he have it in him to learn from the defeat? Possibly but may also be an indication that this is his ceiling as a boxer and he can’t take it any further.
Could he have let his hands go more? Yes but you also need to be able to work the opportunities to be able to do that and he just was so slow in terms of his combinations and Usyk showed no let down in concentration or movement - a truly world class fighter.
Wilder for me has a much better chin than AJ and that alone puts him in a higher category as he is more prepared to get hurt to let that bomb detonate whereas AJ has scars in that respect even though he is superior technically.
Fury is different gravy to both and would love to see him fight Usyk. It wouldn’t be super interesting for the neutral but for the purist it will be a very technical fight and come down to points.
Based on???
Casual boxing fan here (although i was a massive fight fan in the 90's and 00's)
Joshua is a fine specimen of an athlete, a powerhouse and decent boxer he just lacks that aggression those fighter instincts and movements to dig deep.
He's still too robotic for me.
Joshua is a fine specimen of an athlete, a powerhouse and decent boxer he just lacks that aggression those fighter instincts and movements to dig deep.
He's still too robotic for me.
I am no boxing expert but to me there was no way that was 114-114. Usyk definitely had that
How many times has Wilder been knocked down? He doesn’t get rocked by jabs. AJ is like a heavyweight Khan but not as bad.
No way AJ wins that on points - not sure what fight he was watching.
I was asking about the Hatton fight as I didn't see it.
AJ seems unsure of his defensive durability. I think he’s shit scared of being knocked out again and it shows with his lack of offence.
Not sure I'd wanna see a Fury Usyk fight. I don't think either fighter is boring (far from it) but I think it would produce a boring fight.
Wilder gets rocked in pretty much every fight he’s ever in. He‘s been clipped by bums and done the wobbly leg in most fights. He doesn’t have a great chin at all.
He’s also only ever fought Ortiz and Fury. If he’d not been protected his entire carear he’d have fought the likes of Parker, Whyte and so on, In which case he would be a no one as all of them would have beaten him. Pretty sure even Chatlie Z had him shook.
His camp thought they could get Fury unfit and early and get a win and now we are stuck in this moment not getting the best fights.
Morning dude! I’ll do a full post at some point today….just dragging my sorry arse out the hotel and hobbling off to Kings CrossHow much would you not love to be there now @T00lsh3d give us a wave
Joshua is clearly gun-shy after the Ruiz loss, even though he won the titles back previously he did that by staying on the outside against an out of shape (even more so than usual) Andy Ruiz, it wasn't emphatic.
His only chance to avenge this defeat would be to come in heavier and go for the knockout early, the problem is that Usyk has great footwork and pinning him down would be very difficult, also it didn't look like AJ could take his shots on the way in.
Like many fights in boxing these days we will see AJ and Fury when they are out of their prime, if we ever see it at all.
His only chance to avenge this defeat would be to come in heavier and go for the knockout early, the problem is that Usyk has great footwork and pinning him down would be very difficult, also it didn't look like AJ could take his shots on the way in.
Like many fights in boxing these days we will see AJ and Fury when they are out of their prime, if we ever see it at all.
Anything come out post fight about how Joshua is doing? He didnt look in a good way after the bell.
The problem with this era of super, giant HW's is that the majority of them are massive, immobile donkeys with only Fury being an anomaly in being so large yet so incredibly mobile. A cruiserweight coming up and taking his speed and mobility with him whilst being able to withstand heavyweight blows is going to make them look slower and less mobile than they are relative to each other, so Usyk's movement - which was already top class a weight class down - is going to amplify things and distort perception because in this day and age, your generic heavyweight cannot stick and move and display that kind of perpetual lateral movement.
Joshua was quicker and more mobile than he has been and that would be reflected against any other heavyweight sans Fury and obviously Usyk.
Oh sorry mate, one too many I didn't get that.
Hatton was terrible and 100% lost, but the ref gave it to him anyway. Absolute joke really and ultimately I don't think it does him any favours.
No problem. Glad everyone can see this now, the AJ love in on here the last few years was nauseous. Especially when there was a true top class, British heavyweight under everyone's noses.
it’s all on hearn for me. he should have been shouting at joshua to windmill his arms and take full advantage of his greater reach.