Fury has fought nothing but bums outside of Klitschko.
The RedCafe Boxing Thread
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He turned professional in 2008 so it's not like he didn't have time to fight him. He won his title in his 33rd fight, and the decided to defend it against absolute nobody's.
Shelly Finkal got asked off a reporter after Wilder won the Wbc title whether he would unify against Wlad. He said no he's still a baby in boxing terms. He clearly ducked him.
You'll have to elaborate.
People are overlooking Usyk’s experience relative Joshua’s. When Joshua started boxing, Usyk was already at an Olympic Games.
Tonight should be all about applauding Usyk, not piling on Joshua.
The guy who beat him is a phenomenal boxer, though. And yes, the UK has been pretty shite at HW boxing for 100 years before lewis.
He might never be great, but being maybe the best HW in the world (before tonight) is pretty dam good.
If by adjustments you mean he actually threw his right hand a few times then maybe.
He was always gonna land a few times, with his range and just his huge physical advantages, but this was remarkably one sided. A lot as you put it is quite an exaggeration.
feck me you were calling him out for taking an easier fight earlier tonight, now you’ve seen just how good the Ukrainian is, you still can’t accept that he actually as we told you, took on a very hard fight, barring Fury the most difficult in the current division?
He takes on fights, always has, something too many boxers don’t.
Much younger? It was a year and a half. And by all accounts VK was in great shape when he fought AJ.
But who else have you got? Because this is pretty much where it ends. There is absolutely no doubt that AJ has fought better pedigree.
One of those bums was a heavyweight title holder that Joshua wouldn't fight under the same circumstances (going to his place).
Besides, you could say the same against Joshua, who managed to lose to one of those bums.
Lennox Lewis literally had one of the best jabs in the history of HW boxing. There is no time in Joshua's career where he will ever come close to that level of perfection and it's impossible for him to think and fight in the manner Lewis did because of the gulf in the quality of the jab.
You're not being fair to Joshua, imo. He can't be gauged by standards that are unobtainable for him.
Whos been the best HW in the world before tonight?
Wilder is a bum with a bomb, nothing more. Joshua has fought pretty much every good heavy weight out there. You're living in la la land
This is it. We can call AJ a lot of things, but he's always game. He'll fight anyone. There existed this pretense that AJ ducked Fury and Wilder, but we've heard from both camps who have acknowledged offers were made from AJ. As the champ, wtf was he having to chase contenders, and why were they turning down the biggest paydays of their career?!
"Oh what's that? You pull a bigger crowd, you have more belts, are considered a better fighter, and have a far better record? Well why don't you come fight me in this bingo hall with a 6k capacity I can't sell out? Oh whats that? I could fight in front of 60k fans and earn more than I've ever earned in my entire career? No thanks, I'll fight this other Brit, who at the time had no belts and a quarter of the following."
Since when is the champ expected to chase these fights? It's so, so stupid.
I would have said Joshua over fury. I rated his resume higher.
Younger, still confident champion, who he toyed with and easily beat in his own backyard (which was famous for being stacked against challengers) compared to AJ getting seriously hurt and basically outlasting a much older man than himself.
Haha it might be where it ends for you, but Fury's resume involves fewer losses, more champions, and actually traveling to defeat people. Far better than boxing mostly punchbags in your own country.
Seriously?
Didn't catch all of the fight but from what I saw AJ was just completely outclassed. Personally no fan of seeing a rematch given it was so one sided. Would like to see Usyk against Wilder or Fury next.
I actually agree with you, Joshua was negotiating from a position of power, but Wilder had no interest in travelling. Wilder's resume is a joke really. But it's still true that Fury did what Joshua wasn't willing to - going to Wilder to take his belt.
OK, who hits harder than Joshua at HW, then? I've got wilder and I'm out.
Ah, fair play. I misunderstood you. Probably clouded by the number of people I’ve seen on twitter saying that AJ is now shit. I’d agree, he’s not shown enough yet to go down in GOAT territory. He’d need to dominate a proper boxer, a fury/Usyk for that to even be considered now. But yes he’s clearly one of the top heavyweights still.
Congrats on the win. feck the bookies.
And 10+ years as an amateur, to boot. Being outboxed by Usyk is destiny for all but a handful of opponents he'll face and it's no great shame or embarrassment. He's been a P4P top 5-10 for years, so obviously, if he can take his game up or down a division with no fallout, those P4P qualities will come to the fore, which is what happened tonight. I don't see how it's a travesty or disgrace on Joshua's part.
No. Let's not side step. His 'better record,' let's have some names. Let's make this comparison. The most ardent Fury fans wouldn't even make this debate.
Wilder is a bum with a bomb, nothing more. Joshua has fought pretty much every good heavy weight out there. You're living in la la land
That's an accurate description of Wilder, but he's still the champion, and that bomb could easily have flattened Joshua (given that Ruiz absolutely battered him the one time he left the UK).
Anyway, the defensive insults and smileys don't bode well for the maturity of this discussion, so we'll have to agree to disagree.
Fury had no belts, despite his disingenuous claims he was the linear champ. He either fought Joshua, who approached HIM, or he fights Harry Haymaker. He chose the latter. What possible reason do we have for Fury not accepting the fight at the time, which would've been his bigger ever purse, despite it (rightly) being weighted towards the guy with all the power? Fury likes to claim he doesn't fight for money, so why didn't he take the fight?
I think you need to re-watch the bout. Usyk's face was marked up by consecutive hits, not a few clobbering shots. Usyk won the starting and ending rounds, but the middle rounds had a lot of exchanges that were not in Usyk's favour.
What I don't like about this post-fight, is the way Joshua is being forced into a box as if he's exactly the same out there as he was a couple of years back. I'm not a fan of Joshua's and the majority of my posts in here will make it clear what I've thought of him over the years, but I find it contrived to deny him acknowledgement for adjustments he's tried to make.
I would say in 2015 Wilder was still a baby in boxing terms. He is still raw at times so I just don't see how he would have been ready to fight Wlad at that time.
He certainly wouldn't have been fighting him in 2008 when he turned pro add you seem to suggest he should have been doing so.
Had he seen how Fury made Wlad look he might have been interested but Wlad was pretty much retired then until he got the chance to fight for the belts Fury for taken off him.
It's not side stepping when you're trying to lay out rules that I'm not playing to.
The Vlad that Fury faced was way better than the Vlad that AJ faced, and is the best name on either resume. Wilder away, as champ, also sits above anyone else on AJ's resume.
Other than that it's a collection of tough bums, but AJ is the same really, with his top opponents being less impressive than Fury's.
Maybe I do, but I'd suggest you ought to as well, as you're giving Joshua a lot of credit for not a great deal. Almost seems like pity.
Anyway let's agree to disagree for now, it's too late for big debates.
To be fair he was the lineal champ, and hold the Ring title. It is widely considered to be better than having any of the alphabetic titles.
Are you trying to use Fury choosing the bigger purse as a stick to beat him in taking a fight under circumstances that AJ wouldn't? That's just bizarre.
Because he had to. Fury was negotiating from a position of weakness in that fight, AJ a position of strength. It shouldn't be held against AJ that he didn't do that when he never should have to do that.
I think a lot of the reaction is being clouded by how the fight finished and the subsequent (correct) decision.
Usyk dominated and won 1-3
I thought AJ adjusted well while Usyk appeared to be feeling the pace and won 4-6
Usyk won 5
AJ won 6
7 (I think) Usyk was strong and then 8,9,10 were pretty close
Usyk won the last two, which AJ needed to and he basically knocked him out stood up at the end.
Usyk was the better boxer tonight and deservedly won, but to try and pint the picture as AJ having no success is just not accurate.
It was a really really good fight. I think AJ comes in heavier and leans on him a lot in the rematch. I still think Usyk beats him though
Usyk dominated and won 1-3
I thought AJ adjusted well while Usyk appeared to be feeling the pace and won 4-6
Usyk won 5
AJ won 6
7 (I think) Usyk was strong and then 8,9,10 were pretty close
Usyk won the last two, which AJ needed to and he basically knocked him out stood up at the end.
Usyk was the better boxer tonight and deservedly won, but to try and pint the picture as AJ having no success is just not accurate.
It was a really really good fight. I think AJ comes in heavier and leans on him a lot in the rematch. I still think Usyk beats him though
It's not held against him, but looking coldly at their CVs it is a tougher fight than AJ has had, in enemy territory against the biggest puncher in the division.
That's subjective. Personally, I think the Wlad AJ faced was far better. For the first time in forever he had trimmed down, actually seemed to have a strategy for his opponent, and had the hunger. He didn't respect Fury, and thought he was fighting just anther no mark challenger.
Tough bums? Are you seriously putting that forward?
It's not 'my rules.' You seemingly want to discuss technicalities instead of the quality of the opponent. The reason why you plainly refuse to list names is because you can't find any worth mentioning. After Wilder and WK we've genuinely looking at Schwarz and Chisora. Cunningham maybe? Hammer? I suppose the latter did put away channel 5s own Sprott...
Conversely, AJ has fought Uysk, Pulev, Wlad, Ruiz, Povetkin, Parker, Takem, Molina, Whyte etc. It's not even a discussion. Would they stack up to years gone by? No, but AJ still fought them. Fury didn't.
To be clear, you'd say the first Wilder fight Fury took is tougher than any fight AJ has taken?
When you're banned and Rings own rules regarding inactivity strips you of the belt, you aren't linear champ. If we ignore that, then I suppose Rocky Marciano is still linear champ!
He didn't choose the bigger purse? Thats the point! The same nonsense was said regarding Wilder, until Wilder finally admitted last year he took LESS money to fight. Fury held no belts to AJs 3 at the time. But it's still maintained AJ ducked Wilder, just as it is that AJ ducked Fury.
That will pay off only if he catches him within the first half of the fight, else he will gas out.
Fighting Wilder the undefeated world WBC heavyweight Champion in his own back yard and you’re trying to paint that as a negative? Tell you what AJ wouldn’t take that fight even to this day.
AJ would get battered by Fury it wouldn’t even be close AJ hasn’t been the same since Ruiz spanked him.