Wilder didn’t fight Povetkin?
He’s an awful boxer Wilder, so yes, people overrate Fury massively due to that.
And absolutely, he one really impressive win is Wlad, as I said.
The RedCafe Boxing Thread
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Wilder didn’t fight Povetkin?
He’s an awful boxer Wilder, so yes, people overrate Fury massively due to that.
And absolutely, he one really impressive win is Wlad, as I said.
Wilder has no pedigree at all. His only chance is by landing a lucky shot. His record gets talked about with some scepticism, but what it really should be is eviscerated. In his first 39 professional bouts, 19 were against unranked fighters. His only fight against a top ten ranked boxer was against a 41 year old Bermane Stiverne, that went the distance and he won on points. By the time of their rematch Stiverne was unranked. After that his highest ranked opponent was 24th placed Szpilka.
At 39-0 people were hyping him up, despite him having fought absolutely no-one of any note at all. He then had his two biggest tests against a very average, aged Ortiz in bouts he was in big trouble in until he got the knockouts. His first proper fight came against Fury, who had been out for what? 3 years? And despite the official draw, everyone except Wilder and his Mum knows he lost that fight. He then got battered in the rematch. Absolutely battered.
Joshua is no Lennox Lewis, but no one of this generation is; but he’s fecking miles ahead of that clown Wilder. Joshua has now fought and beaten nearly everyone in and around that top 10. With just a few missing. And he’ll fight Fury next. Wilder’s number 3 ranking is the biggest joke in boxing. He isn’t even a top ten boxer in this anaemia HW division.
Where did I say that anyone who doesn’t love AJ is a racist. You might want to re read it. I drew a correlation from social media between the comments I see about them both. In no way did I say 100% of the time if you don’t like AJ then you must dislike Hamilton too.
But thanks for your opinion on him. Probably one of the most hyperbolic things I’ll read this weekend.
Fury can't bob and weave all night and expect to win like he did against Wilder, who can't box for shit.
AJ will find a gap and the gypsy king will get laid out. Just wish they'd get it locked in already.
AJ will find a gap and the gypsy king will get laid out. Just wish they'd get it locked in already.
Why do some people really seem to dislike Joshua? Is it the hype train? The amount of vitriol he gets compared to Fury who has made some pretty horrific comments in his time is just weird.
It’s bizarre. Probably the hype other people give him, and they are reacting to that and misplacing it towards him. Because he genuinely seems like a nice, thoughtful guy, and one who took defeat with grace.
There is also undeniably, for some, a race element to it. Although this can’t be used as a catch all argument for all detractors. Either way, most of the vitriol seems pretty irrational. There are some absolute cockwombles in that division, saying some really stupid or hateful things - none of whom are better boxers than him - and by boxing standards, he seems a likeable guy. I guess some people just hate the hype, or hate to see a young black man do so well. Lewis Hamilton syndrome.
That fight was a 11 years ago when Fury was a kid - how can you possibly think that has any relevance?
British sports fans don't like winners unless they come with serious character flaws.
I’m not a Wilder fan by any means so I think some of your post is a bit mis-targeted, as I indicated above he has a very flawed style and I certainly agree with some of what you’re saying. With that said I think you’re going too far personally and you’re definitely downplaying the threat Wilder poses as a consequence of his power (probably his technical ability as well, his jab is very good).
On the point around Wilder facing a load of cans when he first turned pro he’s certainly not the first boxer to do that when turning professional and a cautious learning curve makes sense given he only turned to boxing at 19/20 and had a very short amateur career. He also didn’t have any big promotional backing the way someone like Joshua did for example, so it feels a hollow criticism to me. Every fighter will go through their own journey and for Wilder stacking up experience and padding out a record probably made sense in terms of furthering his career and garnering attention. Should go without saying that boxing is also a career and Wilder has been really open about the struggles he went through at that stage of his life and the need to support his family financially.
Stiverne was 36 when he fought Wilder not 41 and outside Ortiz that would be his best win. Your point that it went the distance feels like a criticism, which is fair enough I guess, but it’s not as if it was a close fight and one judge called all 12 rounds for Wilder - Stiverne’s chin was pretty exceptional that night and if there’s any criticism of Wilder imo it would be the lack of bodywork and tendency to head-hunt and try and punch through a solid high guard. On Ortiz he definitely isn’t an average fighter by any stretch. Again take the point that Ortiz gave him a load of trouble, but it’s a little bit like so what, your missing the whole point about Wilder and he ultimately knocked out Ortiz twice. He’s never going to be the technician Ortiz is but he still won both fights definitively, as I mentioned in my post his power is a genuine equaliser against more skilled opponents. That’s the whole narrative around Wilder and why he’s dangerous. Slamming him for getting outboxed but then knocking out his opponents makes no sense, and he almost pulled off the same feat in the first fight against Fury (who schooled him in the re-match).
Probably worth saying that just looking at resumes is a pretty limited way to evaluate a boxer and you’re making no allowance for how emphatic those wins were, which is again part of the narrative with Wilder. The 2 minute KO of Breazeale for example (who went 7 rounds with AJ) wasn’t an amazing win against a really talented opponent, but it was another indication of his devastating one punch power. As I said above the only person who’s managed to avoid that is Fury in the second fight and I have concerns whether AJ is defensively evasive enough to do the same. As Ruiz showed (who has a worse resume than Wilder funnily enough..) AJ doesn’t even need out of this world power to be rocked. I’d have him as the firm favourite against Wilder but if he got KO’d I wouldn’t be surprised. Fury I think is comfortably the best of the three.
Why refer to him as a ‘bitch’?
Not true in practice. If you gauge it from the BBC SPOTY whether you think it’s reliable or not, look at some of the winners over the runners up
Princess fecking Anne won over George Best one year. If you’re talking flawed character then Best is right up there.
As well as Andy Murray winning 3 times, Geraint Thomas etc. All nice guys
Spot on.
I'm gonna stick my neck out and say that George Best is a more popular sportsperson than Princess Anne.
"He got asked if he wants the fight and he went around the bushes and put his arse in the hedge"
ffsWhy are Fury fans so insufferable? Yes, he's a better boxer than AJ but he has around a tenth of Joshua's power. This will be a much different fight than Fury Wilder because AJ can actually box. When Fury gets caught, it'll be followed up by a barrage of heavy straights, uppercuts and hooks not just a single hammer blow from his right hand.
AJ looked better than I've ever seen him the other night, his footwork was very smooth and effective, allowing him to move in and out of range easily and dominate the fight, similarly, his jab was brilliant, much faster and crisper than I've seen in previous fights from him, probably helped by his better movement. He managed to remind the world of his incredible power in both hands as well as putting on a bit of a clinic.
Fury should be very wary because he's never fought anyone even close to Joshua's ability. More than likely Fury will revert to type and stay out of range and use his jab sparingly to take a pretty dull points decision but if Wilder can catch him fighting like that, I have absolutely no doubt that AJ will cause him much bigger problems.
AJ looked better than I've ever seen him the other night, his footwork was very smooth and effective, allowing him to move in and out of range easily and dominate the fight, similarly, his jab was brilliant, much faster and crisper than I've seen in previous fights from him, probably helped by his better movement. He managed to remind the world of his incredible power in both hands as well as putting on a bit of a clinic.
Fury should be very wary because he's never fought anyone even close to Joshua's ability. More than likely Fury will revert to type and stay out of range and use his jab sparingly to take a pretty dull points decision but if Wilder can catch him fighting like that, I have absolutely no doubt that AJ will cause him much bigger problems.
Because it's an example of his lack of power. You can't teach that.
But she won because she’s a ‘royal’! Feck that
Also Lewis Hamilton is the most successful British athlete in history measured by the SPOTY award.
I think he has to be fair, when he fought klitschko
That's fair. I would say however that the version of Klitschko he fought wasn't as good or anywhere near as dangerous as Joshua is currently.
But he did fight him 18 months roughly before Joshua did and Joshua did get a great win but was in very serious trouble. Fury wasn't really.
Another fair point but I thought Klitscho looked better against AJ, hard to tell if that's because he was genuinely better with a better game plan against Joshua or if Fury just made him look worse.
I disagree, a fighter can change physically from being a kid to a man with man's strength. Fury is nothing like the fighter he was over a decade ago.
Fury absolutely has enough power to trouble Joshua, you're deluded if you think otherwise.
I don't mean it to sound an excuse or anything, because to take on Klitschko in Germany was a huge thing. But it was clear Klitschko underestimated Fury, and that was his huge mistake. He didn't underestimate AJ and AJ still best him.
Fury took him to the cleaners and had a more comprehensive boxing victory, in my eyes. AJs win was more spectacular.
Fury took him to the cleaners and had a more comprehensive boxing victory, in my eyes. AJs win was more spectacular.
Whether you're right or not, I doubt Fury will be looking to use his power all that often against Joshua, he could easily get sparked out if he goes for it. I think we're far more likely to see a performance like the one against Klitscho than we did against Wilder the second time.
That is certainly possible. I think all I am saying is I will find the matchup compelling nomatter who you want to win - cannot possibly miss this one. I wouldn't like to bet on it that's for sure.
Agreed, I think it's pretty much 50/50. I'm just getting a little sick of Fury fans banging on about Joshua losing like it's a certainty.
I agree with you overall, nothing is a given
Odd post. Very odd.
Like him or not, Joshua is a pretty difficult to guy to hate, especially on the level that you seem to. He hasn't ducked anybody, and isnt the kind of boxer that pads his record with 2 or 3 bums between each big fight.
AJ still looks robotic. Makes me laugh hearing the commentators sayinh he's shown he can box etc. He's stiff and will get a lesson from Fury.
I remember you lot telling me Fury was done and he'd never fight at the top level again
Within months he was beating Klitschko before watching AJ get sparked by a bum. He doesn't stand any more of a chance than Wilder. A punchers chance.Ah shit , I got mixed up with Whyte FFS! Lool.
I still think with the current crop theres no one remotely close to having that combination of size and sheer fleet.of footness, that.masterful boxing ability and evasiveness. You don't learn that latenin your career, he's done it all his life. Not sure anyone can best him but I do love an underdog and AJ cannot be discounted. Id love AJ to do it. I've really grown on him since Ive saw him recover from the Ruiz loss.
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You lot? My first post in this thread was today.I remember you lot telling me Fury was done and he'd never fight at the top level again
I've always rated Fury, he's an excellent boxer. Doesn't change the fact that AJ is by miles the biggest challenge he's ever likely to face.
I like breaking down fights. But I've got it horribly wrong recently with Fury taking it to Wilder and AJ boxing on the back foot vs Ruiz. But that's not going to stop me from giving my views on a AJ vs Fury fight.
I personally think Tyson does what he wants vs AJ. If he wants to keep it at length he can out jab him, if he wants to make it rough and lean on him and go to the body he can, if he wants to push the pace Kronk style he's shown he's added that to the game plan too. But it's heavyweight boxing, one slip of concentration and it's lights out. AJ is a threat in the midrange, his hook is dangerous and if it comes in disguised after an exchange in the pocket it causes damage. AKA Joshua has a punchers chance in my mind. Fury will be winning the rounds but can AJ punish Tyson is the question for me. I just want to see it happen.
I personally think Tyson does what he wants vs AJ. If he wants to keep it at length he can out jab him, if he wants to make it rough and lean on him and go to the body he can, if he wants to push the pace Kronk style he's shown he's added that to the game plan too. But it's heavyweight boxing, one slip of concentration and it's lights out. AJ is a threat in the midrange, his hook is dangerous and if it comes in disguised after an exchange in the pocket it causes damage. AKA Joshua has a punchers chance in my mind. Fury will be winning the rounds but can AJ punish Tyson is the question for me. I just want to see it happen.
This comes up a few times recently and isn't really true. There's plenty of well liked British athletes that don't have any obvious flaws. Even Joshua vs. Fury divides opinion it's not like Fury is universally loved.
Joshua looked good at the weekend, I hope the Fury fight happens. I think Joshua would take it (so would Fury) I think Hearn doesn't really fancy that fight at the moment though unfortunately.
If I were Fury if take it ASAP, Joshua is no natural, but under the guise of McKracken, he's becoming more and more ring crafty and the later Fury leaves it the more AJ will improve. That said, fury would favourite of course, but I'm not counting AJ out. No way.
AJ's best quality is his power and Wilder is likely even more powerful than him. AJ is never going to out-box Fury. He only has a punchers chance and will need to get lucky to beat Fury, that's the only way I see him winning.
I think Joshua's jab has come on leaps and bounds and is now a solid weapon. It gets better and better too. He's still very stiff, but is improving a s a boxer so I agree. That jab will make it more interesting than the Wilder fight just in itself
Edit - it also worries me that Tyson Fury sacked Ben Davison just before the Wilder fight. The man who got him fit again after putting on loads of weight and got him in probably the best condition he had ever been in for that fight. The official line is the training had "gone stale" but I worry that it was too hard work for Fury's liking and he may pile on the pounds again.
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For goodness sake just make the fight happen, boxing is so annoying.