The RedCafe Boxing Thread

Thisistheone said:
Have to say Saturday night was superb. Hearn can put on a show, thats for sure. Think he's been really good for boxing and with the effort to crack America, he could turn out to be brilliant for the sport.

£20 seemed a bit much but thinking about it, Whyte v Parker doesn't happened without the PPV money and it's cheaper than a night out.

Can't wait for the Joshua show now.
Click to expand...

Possibly.

I think long term though it would still of been better on normal Sky sports. We're looking at it with hindsight now as a good card which it was but it shouldn't of been on PPV still.

They could of showcased that on "free" TV and then got the money back by increased numbers on the next card as Whyte could justify the PPV status more. I don't think it would of done big numbers so outside the hardcore boxing fans there's probably not much talk about it really which is a shame.

I reckon they might set up Whyte vs. AJ after AJ vs. Povetkin. Think they'll drag out the Wilder stuff a bit longer.
 
El General 1994 said:
Diaz v Ito was a thing of beauty.

Roll on Saturday night with Kovalev's card.

Just like Garcia v Easter JR, it has not been picked up by a UK broadcaster. But just like for the Garcia v Easter JR fight, I won't be denied...;)
Click to expand...

What site do you use out of interest? I get most of my links from boxing scene.
 
Oggmonster said:
Possibly.

I think long term though it would still of been better on normal Sky sports. We're looking at it with hindsight now as a good card which it was but it shouldn't of been on PPV still.

They could of showcased that on "free" TV and then got the money back by increased numbers on the next card as Whyte could justify the PPV status more. I don't think it would of done big numbers so outside the hardcore boxing fans there's probably not much talk about it really which is a shame.

I reckon they might set up Whyte vs. AJ after AJ vs. Povetkin. Think they'll drag out the Wilder stuff a bit longer.
Click to expand...

It's a tricky one, always been against PPV unless it's got AJ v WK status. It's one reason I like Frampton. He chose to fight on ITV for a bit. And if you were an up & coming boxer, do you sign up to matchroom for more money, a promoter who can open more doors for you, But keeps you away from the casual fan - or do you go the Frampton route, fight on free tele for less money but potential bigger exposure, which could lead to a bigger following and then big money down the line?

Hearn said that without the PPV money the fight wouldn't have happened, so for all Whyte and Parker's talk of being brave and taking a dangerous fight, the money was what made it happen.

And yeah, can definitely see the AJ Whyte re-match happeneing next year.
 
Thisistheone said:
It's a tricky one, always been against PPV unless it's got AJ v WK status. It's one reason I like Frampton. He chose to fight on ITV for a bit. And if you were an up & coming boxer, do you sign up to matchroom for more money, a promoter who can open more doors for you, But keeps you away from the casual fan - or do you go the Frampton route, fight on free tele for less money but potential bigger exposure, which could lead to a bigger following and then big money down the line?

Hearn said that without the PPV money the fight wouldn't have happened, so for all Whyte and Parker's talk of being brave and taking a dangerous fight, the money was what made it happen.

And yeah, can definitely see the AJ Whyte re-match happeneing next year.
Click to expand...

Yeah fair comments mate.

Hearn knows more about boxing promoting than all of us put together I just think long term it could of been good having this on Sky sports even if it means losing a bit of money short term. There was some great fights on this card and it would of done wonders for some fighters on the card with more exposure. I think unless he fights Wilder or AJ next no one will be any more arsed about Whyte than they were for this fight. If it was on Sky sports he'd probably of gotten a few extra fans from it. His fights are normally pretty solid to watch.
 
Surprised at that. Bit of a jump up in class going from this August fight to Wilder.

Wilder probably stops him early.
 
Thisistheone said:
Watched this one as well. He is so good. His timing and balance are on another level.

Still think he's asking a lot moving up to face Spence at 147 mind.
Click to expand...
He’s so patient it’s borderline frustrating to watch but you’re right, his timing, once he gets settled, is incredible. Such a sensational technician. But I do believe his name dropping of Errol is just that. He’s just trying to get some attention and make himself a little more well known. He’s not a powerful guy, Mikey and some of the guys that fight at WW (like Errol) are big for that weight class and could really wear him down.
 
ThaReaper01 said:
He’s so patient it’s borderline frustrating to watch but you’re right, his timing, once he gets settled, is incredible. Such a sensational technician. But I do believe his name dropping of Errol is just that. He’s just trying to get some attention and make himself a little more well known. He’s not a powerful guy, Mikey and some of the guys that fight at WW (like Errol) are big for that weight class and could really wear him down.
Click to expand...

Yeah I know what you mean. It feels like he won't throw a punch unless he's in the perfect position. Although he has stepped it up a little since his comeback. Probably knows he's reached the legacy defining years of his career.

Perhaps Loma would be the more realistic fight then?
 
Thisistheone said:
Yeah I know what you mean. It feels like he won't throw a punch unless he's in the perfect position. Although he has stepped it up a little since his comeback. Probably knows he's reached the legacy defining years of his career.

Perhaps Loma would be the more realistic fight then?
Click to expand...
At 135, that is the fight. I do believe that is his best weight but I also believe that at some point, Tank will move up and I think that’s a fight Mikey would like because Tank is a name around here and it would make a lot of money.

But the dream is definitely Lomachenko. The time is ripe to make it after the Canelo-GGG fight. If it is made, it would garner all the attention in the boxing world and that means $$$ which is what it’s all about.
 
Bit bizarre how the BBC has published a few pieces of McAllister/Williams without any context. It got more coverage than Usyk did. It wasn’t even a licensed bout. How has this got past the editor? It’s the sort of non-credible contest that can’t even get listed on BoxRec. The Sun are the only other national press that covered it at all. I’ve been asking the journalist on Twitter about it.
 
Talks of Fury v Wilder seem to be getting louder. I'd love nothing more for them to fight and then rematch and leave AJ sitting twiddling his thumbs for a year or more fighting lesser pay days. Nothing at all against AJ (he definitely wanted the fight) but feck Eddie Hearn. Nothing would be sweeter than him thinking he is in control of the whole situation and getting outplayed by Wilder and Fury. I've had enough of this marinating of fights shit, the two guys wanted to fight so let them fight FFS.
 
Thisistheone said:
Yeah I know what you mean. It feels like he won't throw a punch unless he's in the perfect position. Although he has stepped it up a little since his comeback. Probably knows he's reached the legacy defining years of his career.

Perhaps Loma would be the more realistic fight then?
Click to expand...
Exactly the reason I think Lomachenko would beat him easily. Mikey is an excellent boxer but he also has very slow feet and limited head movement. Those weaknesses coupled with his need for positioning (to let his hands go) mean he'd just be following Loma around. He's not particularly great at cutting off the ring (due also to slow feet) either so Loma's angles, speed and movement in addition to excellent punch selection and variation will keep Mikey second guessing. I always felt Linares would be harder for Loma due to Linares' fast hands, variation (Mikey does get very repetitive and delivers the right hand slowly) and excellent feet. He can get into positions Mikey won't be able to.

I think this is also part of the reason Mikey seems to put so many roadblocks up and give reasons why the fight can't happen rather than Loma's team and Top Rank have always said they want it and just want Mikey to come to the table with an open mind. I guess rolling the dice with Spence he has an excuse if he loses but if he lost to Loma badly it would be harder to excuse.

I like Mikey a lot and have followed his career but since he had all kinds of problems with Cornelius Lock's movement he's been very selective about who he fights and it's usually always more basic fighters who don't move or give angles. Remember he wanted nothing to do with Uchiyama, Gamboa, Linares and seemingly Loma too.
 
kidbob said:
Talks of Fury v Wilder seem to be getting louder. I'd love nothing more for them to fight and then rematch and leave AJ sitting twiddling his thumbs for a year or more fighting lesser pay days. Nothing at all against AJ (he definitely wanted the fight) but feck Eddie Hearn. Nothing would be sweeter than him thinking he is in control of the whole situation and getting outplayed by Wilder and Fury. I've had enough of this marinating of fights shit, the two guys wanted to fight so let them fight FFS.
Click to expand...
Sounds like both are confident of it being signed but to me it smells like both guys are just trying to make Joshua look bad whilst publicizing themselves and their next fights name dropping Joshua to draw attention.
 
Inter Yer Nan said:
Sounds like both are confident of it being signed but to me it smells like both guys are just trying to make Joshua look bad whilst publicizing themselves and their next fights name dropping Joshua to draw attention.
Click to expand...
Yeah that doesn’t really carry over here because only people who follow boxing closely know who Joshua is. He’s a nobody in the states and will be until he comes over here and takes a legitimate fight. Wilder doesn’t need to name drop to get folks watching him here.
 
Inter Yer Nan said:
Exactly the reason I think Lomachenko would beat him easily. Mikey is an excellent boxer but he also has very slow feet and limited head movement. Those weaknesses coupled with his need for positioning (to let his hands go) mean he'd just be following Loma around. He's not particularly great at cutting off the ring (due also to slow feet) either so Loma's angles, speed and movement in addition to excellent punch selection and variation will keep Mikey second guessing. I always felt Linares would be harder for Loma due to Linares' fast hands, variation (Mikey does get very repetitive and delivers the right hand slowly) and excellent feet. He can get into positions Mikey won't be able to.

I think this is also part of the reason Mikey seems to put so many roadblocks up and give reasons why the fight can't happen rather than Loma's team and Top Rank have always said they want it and just want Mikey to come to the table with an open mind. I guess rolling the dice with Spence he has an excuse if he loses but if he lost to Loma badly it would be harder to excuse.

I like Mikey a lot and have followed his career but since he had all kinds of problems with Cornelius Lock's movement he's been very selective about who he fights and it's usually always more basic fighters who don't move or give angles. Remember he wanted nothing to do with Uchiyama, Gamboa, Linares and seemingly Loma too.
Click to expand...

Good post. Can't disagree with any of that. Also saw your p4p list and the other page. What do you think of the Charlo twins?

ThaReaper01 said:
Yeah that doesn’t really carry over here because only people who follow boxing closely know who Joshua is. He’s a nobody in the states and will be until he comes over here and takes a legitimate fight. Wilder doesn’t need to name drop to get folks watching him here.
Click to expand...

No idea if its true but read that Wilder isn't even a big name in America?
 
ThaReaper01 said:
Yeah that doesn’t really carry over here because only people who follow boxing closely know who Joshua is. He’s a nobody in the states and will be until he comes over here and takes a legitimate fight. Wilder doesn’t need to name drop to get folks watching him here.
Click to expand...
Joshua earns miles more per fight that Wilder. Wilder needs to do all he can and name drop AJ as much as possible because as exciting a boxer he is; he has nowhere near the viewers, popularity and purses Joshua gets.
Clearly the US is where the BIG money is; but boxing exists outside the States too.
 
Last edited:
El General 1994 said:
@Inter Yer Nan

What's your views on the HBO card this weekend? Plus there is a PBC card on FOX.

We won't have either on in the UK :(

But if you look hard enough...;)
Click to expand...
Kovalev-Alvarez should be good. Kovalev being the firm favorite but also his first real test since Ward. There's a reason why Stevenson was so unwilling to face Alvarez despite being the mandatory contender for three years. It should be a good fight and Kovalev should win handily enough maybe by late stoppage.

Bivol-Chilemba is a mismatch. Chilemba of a few years ago could have made a fight of it but he's shopworn now and Bivol is one of the best rising fighters. I think he'll fight (and beat) Kovalev next year. He's awesome. He sets his training camp about 5 minutes from my house too I'm going to have to watch him up close for his next fight apparently he's even more impressive :eek:

PBC is good for what it is. Berto is one loss away from obscurity and Alexander ain't far behind but he did look pretty good beating (but only getting a bogus draw) with Ortiz last time. I think Alexander wins handily and moves onto the Garcia-Porter winner for one last payday. At one point I was convinced Alexander was going to be great but I was never sold on Berto.
 
Thisistheone said:
Good post. Can't disagree with any of that. Also saw your p4p list and the other page. What do you think of the Charlo twins?



No idea if its true but read that Wilder isn't even a big name in America?
Click to expand...
Wilder isn't a big name here. Is he bigger than Joshua? Put it this way I think Joshua would sell more tickets here.

I actually like the Charlo's. I know their cockiness and attitude rubs a lot of people the wrong way but hey, you need bad guys and they can fight they just wear their hearts on their sleeves. How good are they? I think Jermall is the bigger puncher, Jermell the better boxer but both are exciting, passionate fighters that seem to improve every fight. As far as where they are in the sport currently I'd make Jermall a rather decided underdog vs. Golovkin and Canelo and either a slight underdog/even money with Saunders, Jacobs, Andrade. Jermell I think is #2 at 154 behind Hurd. I think he'd probably fall just about short in a great fight with Hurd though I consider him to have more talent. Hurd is just so big, so determined and gets better as the fight goes on.
 
GeorgieBoy said:
Joshua earns miles more per fight that Wilder. Wilder needs to do all he can and name drop AJ as much as possible because as exciting a boxer he is; he has nowhere near the viewers, popularity and purses Joshua gets.
Clearly the US is where the BIG money is; but boxing exists outside the States too.
Click to expand...
Thisistheone said:
Good post. Can't disagree with any of that. Also saw your p4p list and the other page. What do you think of the Charlo twins?



No idea if its true but read that Wilder isn't even a big name in America?
Click to expand...
Heavyweights as a whole aren’t big over here. It’s not the glamor division it once was and because of that, we all know Wilder. The only top American heavyweight. What AJ draws over there doesn’t matter unless that fight happens. He doesn’t mention AJ to improve his profile. He does it cause he wants the fight. He had no real reason to go overseas so I don’t think he’s all that concerned about perception elsewhere. A lot of people watched him fight Ortiz, and the same would happen if he stepped in with another top heavyweight.
 
Inter Yer Nan said:
Kovalev-Alvarez should be good. Kovalev being the firm favorite but also his first real test since Ward. There's a reason why Stevenson was so unwilling to face Alvarez despite being the mandatory contender for three years. It should be a good fight and Kovalev should win handily enough maybe by late stoppage.

Bivol-Chilemba is a mismatch. Chilemba of a few years ago could have made a fight of it but he's shopworn now and Bivol is one of the best rising fighters. I think he'll fight (and beat) Kovalev next year. He's awesome. He sets his training camp about 5 minutes from my house too I'm going to have to watch him up close for his next fight apparently he's even more impressive :eek:

PBC is good for what it is. Berto is one loss away from obscurity and Alexander ain't far behind but he did look pretty good beating (but only getting a bogus draw) with Ortiz last time. I think Alexander wins handily and moves onto the Garcia-Porter winner for one last payday. At one point I was convinced Alexander was going to be great but I was never sold on Berto.
Click to expand...

Cheers mate. I always enjoy reading your breakdowns of the upcoming weekends fights.
 
Be good to see Kov step up in class again this weekend, he's looked sharp since his comeback after the Ward fights albeit against lesser quality opposition. It's a shame him and Stevenson never fought 2-3 years ago when both were in their prime. Kov can still rule that division for another few years but there is a lot of upcoming stars in the light heavyweight division that will soon be looking for the big fights. The likes of Bivol, Beterbiev, Joe Smith Jr, Marcus Browne and even Yarde from the UK.
 
SambaBoy said:
Be good to see Kov step up in class again this weekend, he's looked sharp since his comeback after the Ward fights albeit against lesser quality opposition. It's a shame him and Stevenson never fought 2-3 years ago when both were in their prime. Kov can still rule that division for another few years but there is a lot of upcoming stars in the light heavyweight division that will soon be looking for the big fights. The likes of Bivol, Beterbiev, Joe Smith Jr, Marcus Browne and even Yarde from the UK.
Click to expand...
Browne turned a Kovalev fight down but he may be offered that fight again at the end of the year. Kovalev (if he wins tomorrow) will be fighting again in November or December in NYC and Joe Smith JR is another opponent who'd actually take the fight but would lose badly IMO. It appears the plan is to do one more show with Kovalev in the main event and Bivol as the co-feature and then pair them next year. I'd pick Bivol. He's quick, an excellent sharp puncher and he has excellent technique. Of course Kovalev has great power, an excellent jab and is vastly more experienced so it would be very intriguing.

Beterbiev has been far too inactive due to promotional disputes. Johnson is a good test for him in October. If he comes through that he's a natural rival for Kovalev (amateur history between them) or really any unification. I like him a lot. He has great power and is an intelligent fighter but short arms and not a ton of speed. Those shortcomings IMO would make him an underdog against Bivol, Kovalev and Gvozdyk.

One fighter you didn't mention is Gvozdyk who I'd consider to have almost as high a ceiling as Bivol and better than Beterbiev. He's mandated to face Stevenson on I believe November 11th. I think he KO's Adonis. Gvozdyk is excellent, has a lot of skill, good movement the only question is his chin. I think he has the most vulnerable whiskers of all these guys. He's looked a little uninterested the last two fights and gone through the motions somewhat but I think he'll be firing on all cylinders against Stevenson.

These guys are quality and then there's also Badou Jack who I like a lot. Been on the short end of about 3-4 draws in the last few years. Starts slow but then cranks it up and rips the body up - if only he had more urgency earlier. 168 I don't see Groves-Smith winner stepping up to face these monsters and with good reason.
 
RedFish said:
:lol: I can see your wums a mile off. :nono:
Click to expand...
I’m actually being serious this time. Ward exposed him as not being as scary and intimidating as he lets on. He was also apparently drinking vodka in training camp which is extremely unprofessional.
 
People tend to forget that Kovalev won very clearly in the first Ward fight but I do tend to think some of his aura has gone and mental weakness was shown even though the stoppage was bogus and I had Kovalev ahead I think Ward was going to win. Kovalev's own trainer said the training camp was a mess and he confirmed he was getting drunk often in camp. A switched on Kovalev would have defeated Ward again IMO but professionalism and focus is part of the game.

I think Bivol would beat both at this stage.
 
Inter Yer Nan said:
People tend to forget that Kovalev won very clearly in the first Ward fight but I do tend to think some of his aura has gone and mental weakness was shown even though the stoppage was bogus and I had Kovalev ahead I think Ward was going to win. Kovalev's own trainer said the training camp was a mess and he confirmed he was getting drunk often in camp. A switched on Kovalev would have defeated Ward again IMO but professionalism and focus is part of the game.

I think Bivol would beat both at this stage.
Click to expand...

Yeah the second fight was weird, I think Kov was on top but it was almost as if he was happy for the fight to be stopped. No doubt he won the first.

Your mention of Gvozdyk, completely forgot about him. Supposed to be very highly rated but needs a big fight soon considering he's over 30. Ukraine don't half produce some tough fighters.
 
Inter Yer Nan said:
People tend to forget that Kovalev won very clearly in the first Ward fight but I do tend to think some of his aura has gone and mental weakness was shown even though the stoppage was bogus and I had Kovalev ahead I think Ward was going to win. Kovalev's own trainer said the training camp was a mess and he confirmed he was getting drunk often in camp. A switched on Kovalev would have defeated Ward again IMO but professionalism and focus is part of the game.

I think Bivol would beat both at this stage.
Click to expand...
I actually has Ward winning the 1st fight by a round. Kovalev won wide rounds but Ward won a lot of the close ones and did a proper job on him tbh. Second fight is where I lost respect for Kovalev, he had gone mentally, just didn’t want it bad enough.
 
Kazi said:
I actually has Ward winning the 1st fight by a round. Kovalev won wide rounds but Ward won a lot of the close ones and did a proper job on him tbh. Second fight is where I lost respect for Kovalev, he had gone mentally, just didn’t want it bad enough.
Click to expand...
Yeah something was off with him. Like SambaBoy I had Kovalev ahead in the re-match too and he got absolutely destroyed to the balls and didn’t even complain just wanted to go home. It’s hard to imagine many if any other world champions just letting that slide. He was knackered and mentally somewhere else. Weak.

I went to both fights. First fight people in the crowd people (including Ward fans) were stunned he got the decision. I had fight 1 116-111 to Kovalev. I guess I’m just not a fan of Wards style of grab, wrestle and foul. Some see it as ring generalship and that I just see it as cheating and he’s enabled by the officials. No wonder he was so against fighting away from home.
 
SambaBoy said:
Yeah the second fight was weird, I think Kov was on top but it was almost as if he was happy for the fight to be stopped. No doubt he won the first.

Your mention of Gvozdyk, completely forgot about him. Supposed to be very highly rated but needs a big fight soon considering he's over 30. Ukraine don't half produce some tough fighters.
Click to expand...
Yeah, he’s very fresh though. I think just a dozen fights and no wear and tear. He’ll beat Stevenson and then he’ll have the WBC strap so in prime position.

Yeah, Ukraine has already given us two of the best Heavyweights of the 21st century and two stunning fighters in Lomachenko and Usyk currently. Gvozdyk will do great things too. The schooling of Boxing there must be excellent and obviously tough people. Papa Chenko is somewhat of a genius too. Notice how he trained Loma and Usyk since kids and then Usyk has a different trainer for his last few fights he had some troubles with Briedis and Huck he gets Lomachenko senior to do his full camp for Gassiev who’s better than both those guys combined and Usyk gives the performance of the year.
 
Inter Yer Nan said:
Yeah, he’s very fresh though. I think just a dozen fights and no wear and tear. He’ll beat Stevenson and then he’ll have the WBC strap so in prime position.

Yeah, Ukraine has already given us two of the best Heavyweights of the 21st century and two stunning fighters in Lomachenko and Usyk currently. Gvozdyk will do great things too. The schooling of Boxing there must be excellent and obviously tough people. Papa Chenko is somewhat of a genius too. Notice how he trained Loma and Usyk since kids and then Usyk has a different trainer for his last few fights he had some troubles with Briedis and Huck he gets Lomachenko senior to do his full camp for Gassiev who’s better than both those guys combined and Usyk gives the performance of the year.
Click to expand...

Have you watched the documentary on Loma and his training?
 


Here’s a documentary well worth watching if your into Boxing history. Wilfredo Gomez is one of the greatest Puerto Rican boxers ever and unquestionably #1 in the history of Super Bantamweight. It’s got English subtitles. Great watch really shows you the rise, the peak, the fall of an icon.

One of my favorite Boxing documentaries.
 
GeorgieBoy said:
Joshua earns miles more per fight that Wilder. Wilder needs to do all he can and name drop AJ as much as possible because as exciting a boxer he is; he has nowhere near the viewers, popularity and purses Joshua gets.
Clearly the US is where the BIG money is; but boxing exists outside the States too.
Click to expand...


The only reason Joshua earns more is for some reason British people are happy to pay big money to watch him continually take easy fights with no risk of him losing

It's nothing to do with being a better fighter and we will never know what he is capable until he stops running from Wilder
 
lsd said:
The only reason Joshua earns more is for some reason British people are happy to pay big money to watch him continually take easy fights with no risk of him losing

It's nothing to do with being a better fighter and we will never know what he is capable until he stops running from Wilder
Click to expand...
Wilder has fought 1 fighter in the top 5. :lol:

Joshua brings everything to the table. When your own countrymen won't turn out to watch you windmill some overwieght pensioner, you can't expect to stand on an even keel with someone booking out stadiums.

We are all well aware of your irrational dislike of Joshua, but at least try and use a bit of subtlety.
 
Inter Yer Nan said:


Here’s a documentary well worth watching if your into Boxing history. Wilfredo Gomez is one of the greatest Puerto Rican boxers ever and unquestionably #1 in the history of Super Bantamweight. It’s got English subtitles. Great watch really shows you the rise, the peak, the fall of an icon.

One of my favorite Boxing documentaries.
Click to expand...


That was an interesting watch.

My favourite one was one I watched a while back about Ray Robinson, can't remember what is was called more though as there were a few.

Be sure to post any more good ones you come across.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.