Amateur question here - why do the lower weight classes go to the body a lot more often that heavyweights?
The RedCafe Boxing Thread
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I've never really noticed that to be honest. It could be because body shots would hurt them more due to the fact they're carrying less weight than a heavyweight. Also they'd probably be drained somewhat from a weight cut so hitting their body would hurt more.
At the moment in boxing the lower weight classes have more technique than the bigger guys as well so that may be a factor.
Also for scoring I'd guess. Instead of expending energy from power shots at the head, they work the body instead and score points. Frampton seems to always go for the body.
De La Hoya has always been overrated in my opinion. A very good fighter and a superstar, but never rated him in that elite league.
Agreed, lost nearly every time he fought a higher level of boxer. Good fighter that was marketed very well.
That's exactly how it is. One look at him now would tell you as much. It's no easy thing to live the lifestyle of a professional boxer and it's not for everyone. Whatever personal issues Fury has certainly don't help with that.
Went to war
I went to that damn joke of a fight in Hamburg @Verbalkint, it was the biggest limp-dick performance I've ever witnessed.
Went to war
I went to that damn joke of a fight in Hamburg @Verbalkint, it was the biggest limp-dick performance I've ever witnessed.
Damn
) i thought he stood upto Wladimir and showed some guts in that fight. But considering you were actually there, i'm inclined to take your word for it !Wlad was scared to throw a punch. He fecked up no excuses. Fury did what he had to do, and it was glorious for him. Easy win.
We could say the same about anyone at the bigger weight classes, they'll still spark him in a couple of rounds. Would Kovalev be swinging at air all night?
As you go up the divisions, there comes a point where someone is going to be too strong, too durable, and too powerful for him. GGG is almost certainly one of them.
At a 155 catchweight, I'd have Floyd to beat any fighter in my lifetime.
I already stated weight is a moot point because Floyd would never take a fight at a weight where he couldn't win.
Agree with this.
That's some really strange logic.
Floyd would easily beat Anthony Joshua if they ever fought because Floyd would never take a fight at a weight where he couldn't win.
At 160, would GGG be "out of his depth", "embarassed", and made to look "amatuerish"? Or was that only at 154 or below?
I mean, you've claimed for GGG, to "do some damage to Mayweather is not possible"... It sounds like you think you don't think GGG has the skill to ever beat Floyd, in which case we might as well set the fight at open weight and see if you're right.
I don't know what you find strange about one of the most pragmatic and selective boxers of all time not taking a fight beyond what he reasons his limit? Floyd, 100% would only fight within a weight range where he was capable so anything outside of that is redundant from the off.
GGG definitely does not have the skill to beat Floyd - that's in no way a controversial statement as much better boxers have tried and come up short. That granite chin and the constant aggression are great.... vs. other boxers... they don't mean much vs. Mayweather because the issue is still landing and/or outsmarting him either intuitively or via outright speed. If you can name a more intuitive boxer than Mayweather please do - the guy's radar for trouble and ability to evade it is top 5 all-time, imo. He really does not get the credit he deserves on this site because people don't like him and/or his style and then extract that from his actual craft in the ring.
He is levels above GGG, but that's because prime Mayweather is one of the greatest boxers there has ever been, so it's not a slight on GGG to say so. This notion of GGG just walking through Floyd... and then what? He's not a great boxer on the inside, and although there's no way Mayweather can KO him, he can frustrate him like no one else he has ever faced as he constantly outsmarts and outmanoeuvres him comfortably for the points victory.
There comes a point in most of Mayweather's fights where his opponent gives up and is just waiting for the bell so he can get out of there. I've not seen the variety or adaption in GGG for him to switch things up as his frustration builds (which it would vs. Mayweather) it's at that point he's going to start winging punches and making mistakes that Mayweather would further capitalise off of. That's where it would get amateurish, in my opinion; where it becomes bull vs. matador.
As a point of interest, what punch or inlet do you think GGG would have vs Mayweather in his prime? What do you think he could hit him flush with from his arsenal, and how?
Ok, so you think Mayweather beats him at any weight, that makes things simpler.
You have to accept there are boxers less skillful than Floyd, that would beat him due to their size advantage? You think he'd dismantle the undefeated middleweight champ because you can't hit him.. Well that's going to apply to everyone at Super middle, light heavyweight, and so on.
No one is trying to discredit him, they simply believe in weight classes.
You're not reading what I'm writing: I've said it in two different posts that Floyd would not, in a million years, accept a fight outside of a weight he felt he couldn't win at, which makes every thing outside of that redundant.
We can say from the off GGG is facing Mayweather at a weight that is deemed acceptable (by Floyd) and it's from within that that there can be a discussion.
And at a catchweight, there is concessions from both fighters, not just Mayweather.
I'm not sure GGG could make that weight and be the same guy but I think Hopkins could get down to 155 (he made 156 for Oscar) and would simply be too much and 155 would be perfect for Felix Trinidad who'd be too big, strong, powerful (and more accurate than anyone Floyd's fought) at that weight for him. If Roy Jones could get down to it he'd have it easy with Floyd also. Floyd above 147 never really had the legs he used to have and would be in trouble with those guys above 154. It's one thing to stand close-ish to older washed up guys (Mosley, De La Hoya, Cotto etc
or smaller guys (Pacquaio, Marquez, Maidana etc but it's another to fight an in-prime beast who holds multiple advantages and would laugh at his power or strength. It's why they have weight classes. Mayweather was an expect at figuiring out who to fight and when.Yes, and that also applies to a fight with Anthony Joshua. Floyd wouldn't accept a fight with him at a weight where he couldn't win, therefore assuming they do fight, Floyd would make him look like an amateur. It's an absurd hypothetical.
Realistically, we don't know what weight GGG can make, or what weight he can make without sacraficing his performance.
You're assessing the fight on GGG's skillset that you've seen when he's at a weight he's comfortable, and you've concluded he doesn't have the skill to beat Mayweather. Or have you used your imagination to envision what GGG's skills look like after being drained from a bigger weight cut, and drawn your conclusions from your imagination?
I'd just like your opinion, does Mayweather beat him at 160? Yes or no.
I really have no idea why or how you've generated the tangent where you're mentioning random boxers who could never have a fight made with Mayweather, what's more, you're arguing against it, which honestly feels like it's got nothing to do with anything I've said.
In fact, your whole post is confusing because Floyd would not fight at 160, and whilst you're trying to strip this down to the bare essentials of the bigger man wins, you're ignoring practically everything I'm saying.
Golovkin would obviously be fighting at a weight lighter than 160 because Floyd is not a 160lb'r. If anything, the benefit for GGG is that he has been a 154lb'r in his career whereas Mayweather has never been a 160lb'r. You want me to say that at that weight, Golovkin's size takes the fight, but the reality is, the compromising of Floyd's skilset (loss of mobility, reflexive countering, stamina and overall conditioning) would be more of a factor than what GGG brings to the table.
The discussion is about a catchweight, something where both fighters have to make concessions. Logically, we can take that to be 157, as that's 3lbs up for Floyd and 3lbs down for GGG.
I hate how old this makes me feel as I'm thinking of all the 80's beasts that would've been listed at 155... and I don't think Floyd beats any of the "Fantastic 4" he'd be in contention with. Now those are guys who would very likely be able to KO him, come to think of it. Hagler and Hearns would damn near kill him with Duran not far behind. Leonard would be too much for him, too.
Yes that is clear. I hate when I see on Boxing forums or social media Floyd's fanboys trying to attack those four and bringing them down to bring him up when all four are clearly superior and more accomplished fighters. Not accusing this place of that.
Hagler vs. Floyd isn't worth talking about as it's a gross mismatch and the weight isn't fair to Floyd.
Leonard vs. Floyd I think it would be a highly skilled match, but Floyd is a great defensive fighter, not a great offensive one. Ray was the total package and has too many tools and more speed and even better feet. He'd win 10-5 or 9-3 or so in rounds.
Duran vs. Floyd - Duran would just maul him and he's also massively underrated in the skills and defense departments. Floyd wouldn't be able to do anything to stop Duran cutting off the ring and hammering away at him and outworking him. Floyd would be too busy trying to keep Duran off to gain a true foothold in the bout. Duran by stoppage at 135 and by 10-5, 9-3 at 147.
Hearns vs. Floyd - The worst matchup ever for Floyd (alongside Robinson). Hearns was quick enough, skillful enough and an expert timer he'd connect more than once early and it's good night. I think KO inside 6.
Agree, plus the heart and relentlessness of all 4 of them is like nothing he's ever faced as they were 15 rounders who could go hard for 15 rounds and not skip beat and they rose to the challenge, even intensifying their work in later rounds.
It would also be surreal for Mayweather to be up against actual superior boxers, as that's not something he's faced before.
RING will be stripping Fury next month.
How much longer is Tyson Fury going to be named Ring Magazine Champ? I can’t say much about Fury’s RING-title situation other than there has been debate among the editorial board on what to do with him for months. However, if it isn’t resolved prior to Nov. 28, Fury will be stripped of the title for not defending it in a two-year period. (The rules state that we strip a RING champ after 18 months of inactivity but Fury has had fights scheduled during that period along with his on-going legal battle with the BBBofC and his personal struggles with depression, which has resulted in some leeway.)
How much longer is Tyson Fury going to be named Ring Magazine Champ? I can’t say much about Fury’s RING-title situation other than there has been debate among the editorial board on what to do with him for months. However, if it isn’t resolved prior to Nov. 28, Fury will be stripped of the title for not defending it in a two-year period. (The rules state that we strip a RING champ after 18 months of inactivity but Fury has had fights scheduled during that period along with his on-going legal battle with the BBBofC and his personal struggles with depression, which has resulted in some leeway.)
What channel is Eubank on?
There are a couple of reasons, both stemming from the fact that whilst power increases in divisions the ability to withstand shots to the chin or temple doesn't increase at the same rate. Firstly you have a higher probability of scoring points when going to the body, that is important when you don't have great confidence in stopping the fight. Secondly because draining your opponents fatigue is a potent way of increasing your chances of a knockout which is important when you might not have natural explosive power.
I am usually pretty critical of Wilder but I have sympathy with him here, whilst he was favourite taking Ortiz was a brave move due to him not really having any name recognition whilst being a dangerous opponent.
I just hope that nothing derails his inevitable confrontation with Joshua.
That was my thought when I initially heard about the Ortiz fight, having nightmare visions of Pulev and Ortiz fighting in front of 12 people to unify the division.
I reckon we will see it at the back end of next year though, who would you have your money on?
On recent form, Joshua by decision. Although, one never knows with Wilder. He could come in with his usual wild style and KO him. I'm a bit suspicious of AJ's chin after the Klitschko fight. If Wilder makes that kind of contact I don't think AJ would be able to recover from the ensuing pressure after he gets up.
Looking forward to the Eubank fight tonight. After his opponents managers behavior at the press conference I hope Eubank puts in a great performance and wins this comfortably.
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I agree on Joshua having a suspect chin. He can take shots but when he does get caught clean he seems to completely lose his head and gass for the next 3 rounds before he eventually recovers. It happened against Whyte as well as Klitschko like you mentioned and I think a fighter who is a decent finisher would be able to stop Joshua.
Yeah that's about the way I see it, AJ has better fundamentals and is a lot smoother but Wilder's power is as good as anyone in the division. It was actually the White fight that made me worry about AJ's chin but it wouldn't surprise me if he starts to adopt a more conservative style over the next couple of months.
Agree with both but there’s also a factor that the force these heavyweights have would render the same effect on any body in the division. Clean power punches in the HW game change everything so chins can’t be completely judged on the small sample sizes for Joshua yet until it becomes as frequent as Klitschko.
What times Eubank coming out? Im at work and not sure I'll make it back!!!!!
Whyte fight and that Klitschko punch reassured me about Joshua's chin. Still that uppercut Wlad took still astounds me. GGGs chin is just unbelievable...to the point where I think he doesn't give a crap about being hit .....which can work to his disadvantage if it goes to the scorecards.