Makabu hasn't moved. I hope he is ok....
Edit: looks to be moving now.
Edit: looks to be moving now.
The RedCafe Boxing Thread
- Thread starter CLK_FPC
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Makabu looks in a bad state. Hope he's okay.
Well finished from Bellew.
Well finished from Bellew.
God damn it, at the beginning of the 3rd, Bellew was 100/1 to win in the 4th, so put £1 on 
That was stunning, after being in a similar position in the 1st only to get knocked down and to have the guts to stick with it the second time around and not back away thinking of the game plan, those were concussive punches.
Fair play to him, finally backed up his words.
I'm happy for the lad.
I'm happy for the lad.
....and people want to argue there is nothing wrong with boxing in general and the skill level of the fighters today. Adrian Broner is a 4-division world champion alongside Hearns, Leonard, Duran, Roy Jones, Pacquiao, Morales, Whitaker, De La Hoya, Mayweather and JMM.
Anything to do with him being a scouser?
Haha not so much that he is a Scouser but that he always goes on about it and always has these cringing interviews where he references the same stuff "I'm just a Scouser in a track suit" and all that shite, I dunno why I just find it painful to listen to. Last nights knockout was good but most the times his fights are shite to watch. I also think Cruiserweight is probably the worst division in boxing as well.
Fair enough.
He seems to be a genuine and down to earth person if you listen to people in the game. Most boxers talk shite to be honest - part of their job to hype themselves up I guess. Can't knock Bellew for winning a world title in the home stadium of his club when he was the underdog, in my opinion anyway.
Bellew was good, but can't help thinking the opponent was quite poor (despite which ranking agency said what about him).
He also boxed really restrained at first, then quite poor when attacking. I know he put the guy down, but the number of shots he missed was staggering. A better cruiser weight would have punished Bellew there.
He also boxed really restrained at first, then quite poor when attacking. I know he put the guy down, but the number of shots he missed was staggering. A better cruiser weight would have punished Bellew there.
Oh yeah definitely wouldnt knock his achievement he's done his job. You're spot on as well it's his job to talk himself up, most boxers talk shite as well guess just not everyone's cup of tea.
He's called out David Haye as well which was a bit weird...challenged him to a fight at cruiserweight, if you call someone out surely you're meant to go up to their weight class not the other way round! Haye would destroy Bellew as well I reckon but doubt we'll ever find out.
Fury looking much better than a few weeks ago!
Did Bellew really call David Haye out after the fight? Oh dear.
The bitch from Bermondsey, to be precise
Got to say Crolla is fast becoming my favourite boxer- anyone ever met him with him being a proper hardcore red? My brother see's him all the time in Costco where my brother works.. always got time for a chat says he's a sound guy.
http://espn.go.com/boxing/story/_/i...ell-brook-fight-welterweight-unification-bout
Looks like Brook vs. Vargas is basically confirmed for Bramall Lane. Good fight for Brook and a step up in opposition as well which he really needed. I still expect him to win convincingly but it's a good name for his resume and if he manages to get on HBO it will be even better for him.
Sugar Ray Robinson is as unanimous choice as Michael Jordan is when it comes to basketball.
For the second spot you usually get either Ali or Armstrong. It is very hard though to know how good Armstrong really was considering that he boxer before and during the second world war, so not much footage there.
Spot on about Pryor. Aaron was a great, great fighter, but he was a notch below the likes of Duran, SRL, Hearns, and Hagler.
Robinson is my pfp # 1 as well, but I would definitely not argue against anyone who prefers Harry Greb. And Duran, in my opinion, was better than both Armstrong and Ali.
I am not familiar with Duran's lightweight achievements. In Welterweight/Middleweight however, he lost from SRL twice, from Benitez, from Hagler and from Hearns. He surely should have been a GOAT in lightweight to qualify him as one of the best boxers ever, considering his defeats in the other categories.
Ali is easily me second PFP boxer of all time. In fact, he might even challenge Sugar Ray for the first position. Ali fought and defeated the bests in what is considered traditionally as the best era of the most important boxing weight class. He defeated (among others) Archie Moore, Floyd Patterson, Sony Liston, Joe Frazier and George Foreman. Liston, Frazier and Foreman are easily in top 10 of heavyweights IMO (Foreman in top 5 if not top 3, IMO). It is really hard to make a case against Ali.
I am completely unfamiliar with Harry Greb.
Agreed.
It's the most winnable top 10 fight going. Brook should control this contest and look good doing so. Vargas offers reduced power compared to any other top 10 ranked opponent and the closeness of a contest with an undermotivated and poor Bradley on the night makes this seem a lot more credible than it should really be. A step in the right direction though for Brook, at least there's some marginal risk in this one for him.
Duran beat SRL in their first fight and gave up chasing him in the second bout.
He got beaten on the second fight and couldn't continue anymore. He didn't 'gave up chasing'.
Still, beating SRL is a great achievement on itself, but he got revenged from that, in addition to losing the other fights I mentioned.
Course he gave up. He wasn't in any trouble during that fight. He blamed it on stomach cramps (Apparently he had over eaten after the weight ins) but his trainer believeso he was embarrassed because he couldn't catch SRL.
Also remember that Hearns had 6 inches on him and the other two had 3 inches on him. He was fighting men bigger then his natural weight class.
How come nobody mentions 49-0 for p4p?
Yep, he was getting out-boxed and couldn't hit Sugar Ray. He gave up instead of going for the remaining few rounds when he was either going to get KO, or lose in an unanimous decision.
This is a fair point.
Because he isn't in the same category as them. He's a top 30, being very generous a top 20 boxer, but that's it.
Yeah he's definitely been hand picked to pad out a record still but I suppose can't complain!
He could make a strong case for his era but traditionally boxing was "harder" years ago with more rounds and less politics were involved, the best tend to of fought the best as that's where money was to be made.
I always think P4P all time lists are hard to judge anyway. A lot of it is just accepted what boxing historians would say as fact, equally people always get looked on a lot more fondly once they've long since retired. For example I bet in 20-30 years Mayweather will be remembered much better than he currently is.
A prime example people probably would of watched is Tyson. Brilliant in his prime and even now he is spoken about as being better than the likes of Lewis and Holyfield which isn't really fair on them 2. It's all about reputation really.
He wasn't getting KO'd and the scorecard was fairly close. It was a tight match.
He was also four years older then SRL and even older still then Hearns.
49-0 in a division as tough as HW. That's one of the best boxing records out there.
I assumed you meant Mayweather as he's become pretty much known for that number.
It's always debated Marciano never fought top fighters at their peak to be fair so a lot of people don't really include him (must be something with the 49-0 figure and accusations of selecting fights!)
Oh, trust me, you'll find no bigger Ali fan on this board than me. I grew up idolizing the man. Duran above him is just my opinion, but I certainly wouldn't argue against anyone placing him above anyone else, even the inimitable SRR.
But, yeah, Duran just dominated the lightweight division unlike anyone before or since. And this was a division that included the likes of Esteban de Jesus, who had Duran not been around would've likely been a long-reigning champion himself.
Duran's story is one of the greatest in boxing history. Starving street kid turns to boxing to get out of the slums of Panama, gets discovered by a local millionaire fight fanatic who signs him up and then, unbelievably, lures out of retirement Ray Arcel, the greatest trainer alive, to refine the wild boy's technique.
Arcel and the man he brought as his partner to Panama, Freddie Brown (the inspiration for the Mickey character in Rocky), were relics from the days when their people, the Jews, had dominated boxing in the 1920s. (Arcel had even trained the great Benny Leonard in the 20s!) It was the coolest damn thing to see Duran in the 70s and 80s enter into the ring with "the two ancient ones," as Howard Cosell used to call them.
Together, the two cornermen created possibly the most lethal combination of ferocity and skill (Duran, often thought of as a slugger because of his aggression, was a supremely intelligent and refined fighter, especially on the defensive side of things) the sport has ever seen.
Certainly, Duran in his natural weight class is where he was most dangerous and accomplished, but his forays above 135 pounds should not be discounted. He defeated SRL--a top five all-time great fighter--when he was past his prime and 12 pounds above his best weight, and when Leonard was in his prime and fighting where he was most comfortable. That kind of thing just isn't done (and hasn't been done since). And then he won titles at junior middleweight and middleweight against not against blown-up fighters, but guys in their prime who were actually large for their divisions--Davey Moore and especially Iran Barkley!
To hold his later losses against SRL, Hearns, and Hagler--when he was already fat, unmotivated, and coked up--against him is to do him a great disservice.
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He was the same height as SRL and had smaller reach but was fighting in a much bigger weight class around the same time. Surely thats enough to put him in contention
That fight, because of the notoriety of the ending, is oftentimes believed to have been a wipeout for Leonard. It wasn't. Duran was behind, but not by much.
He was fat (Freddie Brown could just not get him to train for this fight, and he had stop eating almost altogether prior to the rematch) and slower than usual. And because he had eaten like a madman after the weigh-in (which were same-day weigh-ins back then), he had indeed had stomach cramps during the fight. Simply put, he needed to take a giant shit! (And he did as soon as he hit the dressing room after the fight, according to boxing writer Malcolm Flash Gordon, who was there with him).
So, yeah, he did stop chasing.
A lot of boxers whose name you haven't heard won more than their first 50 matches, but they continued fighting. However, to be regarded as an all time great, you need more than a flawless record. On other words, you need to beat the bests in their best, or do some extraordinary things (like Duran did).
Here is an excellent article for this topic: http://ringtv.craveonline.com/news/...mayweather-jr-s-place-among-the-modern-greats
Long, but worthy to be read. I have been saying this for some time now. In order to cement his legacy, he needed to either defeat Pacman at their best, or go up and defeat GGG. I know that his fans say that would have been an insane fight, so why he should have done that? But other boxers in history did similar things, and when you're claiming to be the GOAT, you are competing against them, not only against fighters of your class and era.
SRL was leading more than when Duran won the previous fight (a lot of people say that SRL should have won in the first place) and Duran's manager said that Duran was embarrassed to continue.
Watching that match, I think it is clear to see that Sugar was going to inevitably win, 'no mas' or not.
It's opinions at the end of the day. Again I don't really bother with P4P all time lists as I think it's impossible to rank sports people based over such a long period of time. The conditions are completely different in sports in 2016 to 1956 for example that's not just in boxing either. I was just making a point as to why he's not normally considered as a Top 5....he didn't fight the best at their peak like others that are generally considered did.
Anyone see this? Most disgraceful refereeing performance ever (for once a video title is correct).
P4P, I'd rank Duran above Leonard and Floyd. Guy ran up the weight-classes, and was something stupid like 70-0 at 135.
Floyd skill-wise is an all-time great. He's tainted his own legacy by not fighting certain guys and not fighting certain guys in their prime, cause he probably would have beaten them all.
Floyd skill-wise is an all-time great. He's tainted his own legacy by not fighting certain guys and not fighting certain guys in their prime, cause he probably would have beaten them all.
That's the most scripted promo I've seen I think!
I really can't stand him. The more I watch him though I think it's becoming an irrational hatred on my side.