It's @BorisDeLeFora's turn though
The Reality Draft: Main Thread (Finals)
- Thread starter Edgar Allan Pillow
- Start date
01. Raees - (2. Makelele) 1. Morena 3. Socrates 4. Conti 5. Stoichkov 6. Ballack 7. Zanetti, (*8. Costacurta*) 9. Terry, 10. Pogba, 11. D. Villa 12. Belodedici, 13. Casillas 14. Scirea 15. E Davids
02. antohan - (3. Gerrard) 1. Ljungberg 2. Boniek 4. Effenberg (*5. Raul*) 6. Luis Enrique 7. Hierro 8. T. Silva 9. Ferrara 10. Götze 11. Vieri 12. Abidal 13. Chilavert 14. Nedved 15. Baggio
03. BorisDeLeFora - (7. Bergomi) 1. Zambrotta 2. Tigana 3. Robson 4. Cerezo 5. Del Piero 6. Klinsmann (*8. Lucio*) 9. Popescu 10. Koke 11. A. Cole 12. Donadoni 13. Cech 14. Kohler 15. Batistuta
04. MJJ (Theon) - (4. Dalglish) 1. Di Livio 2. Souness 3. Bochini 5. Rivaldo 6. McGrath 7. Sammer 8. Campbell 9. Totti 10. Ricardo Rodriguez 11. Peter Schmeichel 12. Elkjaer (*13. Crespo*) 14. Passerella 15.
05. Jayvin - (3. Iniesta) 1. Gallas (*2. Vieira*) 4. Lizarazu 5. Romario 6. Overmars 7. Desailly 8. Blanc 9. Xabi Alonso 10. Hazard 11. Gianluigi Buffon 12. Boban 13. Mendieta 14. Figo 15.
06. The Red Viper - (5. Simonsen) 1. Prosinečki 2. Robben 3. Scholes 4. Vidic 6. Eto'o 7. Stam (*8. Rui Costa*) 9. Dunga 10. Rafael Da Silva 11. Kahn 12. Sagnol 13. Sergi 14. T. Henry 15.
07. VivaJanuzaj - (7. Nesta) 1. Francescoli 2. Seedorf (*3. Breitner*) 4. Vierchowod 5. Rummenigge 6. Savicevic 8. Verón 9. Adams 10. Alaba 11. Reuter 12. Van Der Sar 13. Trezeguet 14. Roy Keane 15.
08. harms - (1. Puyol) 2. Blokhin 3. Falcao 4. Roberto Carlos 5. Bergkamp 6.Bonhof 7. Ruggeri 8. Willy Ortiz (*9. Stielike*) 10. Varane 11. Kaltz 12. Krankl 13. Zubizarreta 14. Neeskens 15.
02. antohan - (3. Gerrard) 1. Ljungberg 2. Boniek 4. Effenberg (*5. Raul*) 6. Luis Enrique 7. Hierro 8. T. Silva 9. Ferrara 10. Götze 11. Vieri 12. Abidal 13. Chilavert 14. Nedved 15. Baggio
03. BorisDeLeFora - (7. Bergomi) 1. Zambrotta 2. Tigana 3. Robson 4. Cerezo 5. Del Piero 6. Klinsmann (*8. Lucio*) 9. Popescu 10. Koke 11. A. Cole 12. Donadoni 13. Cech 14. Kohler 15. Batistuta
04. MJJ (Theon) - (4. Dalglish) 1. Di Livio 2. Souness 3. Bochini 5. Rivaldo 6. McGrath 7. Sammer 8. Campbell 9. Totti 10. Ricardo Rodriguez 11. Peter Schmeichel 12. Elkjaer (*13. Crespo*) 14. Passerella 15.
05. Jayvin - (3. Iniesta) 1. Gallas (*2. Vieira*) 4. Lizarazu 5. Romario 6. Overmars 7. Desailly 8. Blanc 9. Xabi Alonso 10. Hazard 11. Gianluigi Buffon 12. Boban 13. Mendieta 14. Figo 15.
06. The Red Viper - (5. Simonsen) 1. Prosinečki 2. Robben 3. Scholes 4. Vidic 6. Eto'o 7. Stam (*8. Rui Costa*) 9. Dunga 10. Rafael Da Silva 11. Kahn 12. Sagnol 13. Sergi 14. T. Henry 15.
07. VivaJanuzaj - (7. Nesta) 1. Francescoli 2. Seedorf (*3. Breitner*) 4. Vierchowod 5. Rummenigge 6. Savicevic 8. Verón 9. Adams 10. Alaba 11. Reuter 12. Van Der Sar 13. Trezeguet 14. Roy Keane 15.
08. harms - (1. Puyol) 2. Blokhin 3. Falcao 4. Roberto Carlos 5. Bergkamp 6.Bonhof 7. Ruggeri 8. Willy Ortiz (*9. Stielike*) 10. Varane 11. Kaltz 12. Krankl 13. Zubizarreta 14. Neeskens 15.
Heh.
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Just so it will be up there
01. Annahnomoss - (3. Tardelli) 1. Cocu 2. Gentile 4. Amoros 5. Rossi 6. Gascoigne 7. Scirea 8. Bossis 9. Littbarski 10. Sterling 11. D. Alves 12. Preud'homme 13. Simeone
02. Chesterlestreet - (7. Lahm) 1. Mascherano 2. Nedved 3. Neeskens 4. Beckham 5. Henry 6. Júnior, 8. Buchwald 9. G. Neville 10. J. Rodriguez 11. Augenthaler 12. Rocheteau 13. Van Breukelen
03. Joga Bonito - (4. O Ardiles) 1. Keown 2. Baggio 3. Figo 5. Weah 6. Søren Lerby 7. Cafú 8. Koeman 9. De Rossi 10. Juan Bernat 11. Sanchís, 12. Zenga 13. Rafael Gordillo
07. ctp - (6. Ribéry) 1. Brolin 2. Lato 3. Xavi 4. Guardiola 5. Shevchenko 7. Kohler 8. Carvalho 9. Kakà 10. Carvajal 11. Evra 12. Schumacher 13. Paulo Sousa
08. Skizzo - (7. Brehme) 1. Solskjaer 2. Cabrini 3. Schuster 4. K. Förster 5. Hugo Sanchez 6. Barnes 8. Deschamps 9. McGrain 10. Marquinhos 11. Michel 12. Fillol 13. Butragueño
11. Stobzilla - (8. Jugovic) 1. Camoranesi 2. Hansen 3. Davids 4. Balakov 5. Batistuta 6. Irwin 7. Passarella 9. Pires 10. Strootman 11. Mauro Silva 12. Bezsonov 13. Southall
12. Aldo - (7. Rio) 1. Senna 2. Hagi 3. Pirlo 4. Schweinsteiger 5. RvN 6. Tresor 8. Camacho 9. Gerets 10. Neymar 11. Montero 12. Pfaff 13. Cantona
16. crappycraperson - (7. Cannavaro) 1. Nadal 2. M. Kempes 3. Roy Keane 4. Jan Ceulemans 5. Shearer 6. Prohaska 8. Briegel 9. Ayala 10. Kroos 11. J. L. Ferreira 12. Dasaev 13. Hoodle
01. Annahnomoss - (3. Tardelli) 1. Cocu 2. Gentile 4. Amoros 5. Rossi 6. Gascoigne 7. Scirea 8. Bossis 9. Littbarski 10. Sterling 11. D. Alves 12. Preud'homme 13. Simeone
02. Chesterlestreet - (7. Lahm) 1. Mascherano 2. Nedved 3. Neeskens 4. Beckham 5. Henry 6. Júnior, 8. Buchwald 9. G. Neville 10. J. Rodriguez 11. Augenthaler 12. Rocheteau 13. Van Breukelen
03. Joga Bonito - (4. O Ardiles) 1. Keown 2. Baggio 3. Figo 5. Weah 6. Søren Lerby 7. Cafú 8. Koeman 9. De Rossi 10. Juan Bernat 11. Sanchís, 12. Zenga 13. Rafael Gordillo
07. ctp - (6. Ribéry) 1. Brolin 2. Lato 3. Xavi 4. Guardiola 5. Shevchenko 7. Kohler 8. Carvalho 9. Kakà 10. Carvajal 11. Evra 12. Schumacher 13. Paulo Sousa
08. Skizzo - (7. Brehme) 1. Solskjaer 2. Cabrini 3. Schuster 4. K. Förster 5. Hugo Sanchez 6. Barnes 8. Deschamps 9. McGrain 10. Marquinhos 11. Michel 12. Fillol 13. Butragueño
11. Stobzilla - (8. Jugovic) 1. Camoranesi 2. Hansen 3. Davids 4. Balakov 5. Batistuta 6. Irwin 7. Passarella 9. Pires 10. Strootman 11. Mauro Silva 12. Bezsonov 13. Southall
12. Aldo - (7. Rio) 1. Senna 2. Hagi 3. Pirlo 4. Schweinsteiger 5. RvN 6. Tresor 8. Camacho 9. Gerets 10. Neymar 11. Montero 12. Pfaff 13. Cantona
16. crappycraperson - (7. Cannavaro) 1. Nadal 2. M. Kempes 3. Roy Keane 4. Jan Ceulemans 5. Shearer 6. Prohaska 8. Briegel 9. Ayala 10. Kroos 11. J. L. Ferreira 12. Dasaev 13. Hoodle
I agree, great defender and a better "CB" than any other libero, but to get the full package you want him influencing the game further up the pitch as well. I'd argue Briegel for Rodríguez was more important than Passarella for Campbell.
A bad pass and he was in no man's land though.
But if they are dovetailing up the pitch that's exactly why you want a LB who can stay back. Mind, McGrath does fill me with confidence. Heck, it was my 50's CB pair, Passarella-McGrath, but I had Briegel out on the left with clear instructions to tuck in and cover him as and when. Not that anyone paid any attention, I had to put about ten men behind the ball in defence at times
Can't disagree with much of that Anto - think you're spot on mostly there.
Aye, Passarella for Campbell wasn't as big a jump as someone like Briegel for Rodriguez because Sol was a fantastic defender in his own right. Probably wouldn't have been Briegel mind - there's a certain left back I'm sure you've had your eye on who wasn't too shabby in Brazilian Magic Squares
Long term I think this was the better move though because I couldn't risk Passarella not becoming available again - I think he's lovely there and given that Scirea doesn't fit, he was the best defender available. Plus I like what he brings to the side in terms of fitting a certain style of attractive football.
Agreed on the risk of passes going astray, that's always a risk with libero's of this sort - though even Passarella's passing surprised me in the sense that it wasn't hugely expansive in the games I saw. He usually would play it nice and sharp, the short of neat passes Keane mastered, and when he fizzed in a pass to midfield and burst forward for the return, it was more likely that the other chap misplaced the return ball than the other way around.
Yep, I saw that it was your 50's partnership. That was a great draft. Poor Viva. That's two Argie strikers that have been swiped from under his nose. I was actually toying with picking him myself, he would have been lovely with Rivaldo and it links him up with Totti again. But yeah, he would have been great in Viva's team.
Can't disagree with much of that Anto - think you're spot on mostly there.
Aye, Passarella for Campbell wasn't as big a jump as someone like Briegel for Rodriguez because Sol was a fantastic defender in his own right. Probably wouldn't have been Briegel mind - there's a certain left back I'm sure you've had your eye on who wasn't too shabby in Brazilian Magic Squares
I rate Briegel higher as a defender, under very specific circumstances (needing a playmaker out wide) I'd take Junior, but never as a defender.
Kohler
Therein lies the problem. It isn't Passarella fecking up (his balls were simple indeed), it's the recipient being muscled off the ball or, even worse, the next pass being intercepted as he bursts forward to receive it. You are left completely exposed then, and he ain't the quickest. Say you are playing me, quick ball to Boniek who makes short work of Rodríguez and suddenly it's McGrath caught in headlights against Zibi, Vieri and Baggio. Götze himself is getting in the act before Daniel. Yes, he is trying his best to get back but forget positioning, he will just about make it somewhere, not necessarily where he is most needed. Good luck with that. Same with Robben, and Figo/Overmars, or Conti/Stoichkov. It's completely mental unless you instruct him to just play CB, in which case, he isn't at his best.
Alaba played again centerback today by the way. He's pretty much first choice left sided centerback in the back 3 and with all our injuries also an option at centerback in a back four. I know, small samplesize so far, but he's clearly disciplined and smart enough to 'tuck in'.
Of course he played the role more like a libero, constantly making runs forward. I wouldn't compare him to someone like Briegel, but he's not as out of place in that role as you'd expect when watching the young attacking leftback from our treble winning season.
I don't think there's anything between Kohler and Passarella when it comes to defending. But mehh, it's not silly to say Kohler is slightly better defensively - but its marginal if anything. Passarella read the game fantastically well and he could be just as physical in the challenge. Really I don't think there's much in it.
In possession though Passarella brings more to the side, so overall I think he's comfortably better.
Losing the ball is a risk with any libero though, it comes with the role. And as libero's go Passarella was one of the safer ones because he didn't dribble out of defence and he didn't constantly try 50 yard passes.
Incredibly small, I still don't rate Rojo as a CB and he has been doing it for far longer. At this level I'm talking about people like Hans-Peter Briegel, not Alaba over three games
It's not even like he has faced a similar challenge, he is playing CB, not LB next to a CB and defensive leader who has a habit of bursting forward. It's an entirely different job. Most liberos you have them in a back 5 starting from a sweeper position and with others really being the "proper defenders", what Passarella did great was have the same effect from an attacking perspective while being an excellent defender. But you can't have your cake and eat it, you already have four defenders instead of 5, you can't also want an attacking fullback, you need someone who makes it all come together nicely.
As above, defensively he is better than the others, that's why he can play a four, and also why he wouldn't try fancy stuff that could backfire (less cover to rely on). Having the wrong fullback is even less cover though.
Anyway, we'll go Cafu. Must be some sort of record the number of times I've had him.
That view is fair enough, Rodriguez certainly isn't the perfect fit there.
Interesting point there actually Anto - did Passarella not try the fancy stuff because he was in a four, or because that just wasn't his style. I've always assumed it was the latter but it could well be that he played that way because the Argie's played a four man defence. Probably a mix of the two.
Anyway, we'll go Cafu. Must be some sort of record the number of times I've had him.
Yeah, he goes back home, I'm more of a Zanetti guy and he knows it
But then, I wanted the option of a 3-5-2 and they don't come better than him for that. Oh well... It was pointless to pick him without planning on playing him though.And I'm also delighted to have Baggio instead
A bit of a chicken and egg thing, isn't it? Did Passarella have a style that happened to work in that system or did he develop a style that worked in that system?
Probably a bit of both.
To be fair, Alaba wins that contest on talent alone, not even included that his tactical understanding of the game is most likely on a completely different level as well after learning the game under van Gaal, Heynckes and Guardiola. Sure, he lacks experience and obviously I'd take someone like Briegel over him for that role. However, I don't think it's outragous to suggest that Alaba and Passarella could make it work and take turns in making runs forward depending on the situation. What you want from your fullback there is mainly cover against counterattacks as a wide centerback and from what I've seen of Alaba in that role, he's definitely capable of giving that.
Yeah, he goes back home, I'm more of a Zanetti guy and he knows it
And I'm also delighted to have Baggio instead
There goes Cafu, Baggio and Figo from my ex-team. Looks like no one is going to touch any of the other left-overs (maybe Koeman and Lerby but highly doubt it) from my team though.
01. Raees - (2. Makelele) 1. Morena 3. Socrates 4. Conti 5. Stoichkov 6. Ballack 7. Zanetti, (*8. Costacurta*) 9. Terry, 10. Pogba, 11. D. Villa 12. Belodedici, 13. Casillas 14. Scirea 15. E Davids
02. antohan - (3. Gerrard) 1. Ljungberg 2. Boniek 4. Effenberg (*5. Raul*) 6. Luis Enrique 7. Hierro 8. T. Silva 9. Ferrara 10. Götze 11. Vieri 12. Abidal 13. Chilavert 14. Nedved 15. Baggio
03. BorisDeLeFora - (7. Bergomi) 1. Zambrotta 2. Tigana 3. Robson 4. Cerezo 5. Del Piero 6. Klinsmann (*8. Lucio*) 9. Popescu 10. Koke 11. A. Cole 12. Donadoni 13. Cech 14. Kohler 15. Batistuta
04. MJJ (Theon) - (4. Dalglish) 1. Di Livio 2. Souness 3. Bochini 5. Rivaldo 6. McGrath 7. Sammer 8. Campbell 9. Totti 10. Ricardo Rodriguez 11. Peter Schmeichel 12. Elkjaer (*13. Crespo*) 14. Passerella 15. Cafu
05. Jayvin - (3. Iniesta) 1. Gallas (*2. Vieira*) 4. Lizarazu 5. Romario 6. Overmars 7. Desailly 8. Blanc 9. Xabi Alonso 10. Hazard 11. Gianluigi Buffon 12. Boban 13. Mendieta 14. Figo 15.
06. The Red Viper - (5. Simonsen) 1. Prosinečki 2. Robben 3. Scholes 4. Vidic 6. Eto'o 7. Stam (*8. Rui Costa*) 9. Dunga 10. Rafael Da Silva 11. Kahn 12. Sagnol 13. Sergi 14. T. Henry 15.
07. VivaJanuzaj - (7. Nesta) 1. Francescoli 2. Seedorf (*3. Breitner*) 4. Vierchowod 5. Rummenigge 6. Savicevic 8. Verón 9. Adams 10. Alaba 11. Reuter 12. Van Der Sar 13. Trezeguet 14. Roy Keane 15.
08. harms - (1. Puyol) 2. Blokhin 3. Falcao 4. Roberto Carlos 5. Bergkamp 6.Bonhof 7. Ruggeri 8. Willy Ortiz (*9. Stielike*) 10. Varane 11. Kaltz 12. Krankl 13. Zubizarreta 14. Neeskens 15.
02. antohan - (3. Gerrard) 1. Ljungberg 2. Boniek 4. Effenberg (*5. Raul*) 6. Luis Enrique 7. Hierro 8. T. Silva 9. Ferrara 10. Götze 11. Vieri 12. Abidal 13. Chilavert 14. Nedved 15. Baggio
03. BorisDeLeFora - (7. Bergomi) 1. Zambrotta 2. Tigana 3. Robson 4. Cerezo 5. Del Piero 6. Klinsmann (*8. Lucio*) 9. Popescu 10. Koke 11. A. Cole 12. Donadoni 13. Cech 14. Kohler 15. Batistuta
04. MJJ (Theon) - (4. Dalglish) 1. Di Livio 2. Souness 3. Bochini 5. Rivaldo 6. McGrath 7. Sammer 8. Campbell 9. Totti 10. Ricardo Rodriguez 11. Peter Schmeichel 12. Elkjaer (*13. Crespo*) 14. Passerella 15. Cafu
05. Jayvin - (3. Iniesta) 1. Gallas (*2. Vieira*) 4. Lizarazu 5. Romario 6. Overmars 7. Desailly 8. Blanc 9. Xabi Alonso 10. Hazard 11. Gianluigi Buffon 12. Boban 13. Mendieta 14. Figo 15.
06. The Red Viper - (5. Simonsen) 1. Prosinečki 2. Robben 3. Scholes 4. Vidic 6. Eto'o 7. Stam (*8. Rui Costa*) 9. Dunga 10. Rafael Da Silva 11. Kahn 12. Sagnol 13. Sergi 14. T. Henry 15.
07. VivaJanuzaj - (7. Nesta) 1. Francescoli 2. Seedorf (*3. Breitner*) 4. Vierchowod 5. Rummenigge 6. Savicevic 8. Verón 9. Adams 10. Alaba 11. Reuter 12. Van Der Sar 13. Trezeguet 14. Roy Keane 15.
08. harms - (1. Puyol) 2. Blokhin 3. Falcao 4. Roberto Carlos 5. Bergkamp 6.Bonhof 7. Ruggeri 8. Willy Ortiz (*9. Stielike*) 10. Varane 11. Kaltz 12. Krankl 13. Zubizarreta 14. Neeskens 15.
Would have loved Lerby, but with Effenberg, Lucho and Hierro I'm done with midfielders unless a really top GOAT tier one is available.
That was your 22,222 post. So erm congrats I guess.
I really wanted to have Effenberg in my previous team but then perhaps I would have been better served with going for a more creative combative midfielder instead as my De Rossi pick flopped considerably. Pretty sure Effenberg wouldn't have done better in that regard.
That was your 22,222 post. So erm congrats I guess.
I really wanted to have Effenberg in my previous team but then perhaps I would have been better served with going for a more creative combative midfielder instead as my De Rossi pick flopped considerably. Pretty sure Effenberg wouldn't have done better in that regard.
I'll have to ruin that and wait fo 33,333 but for good reason. How can you possibly equate/compare Effenberg and De Rossi? Have a word...
Seriously, it isn't just you who sees him purely as some sort of midfield destroyer. That's why I emphasised people should check the youtube link in his profile (page 63), his passing range and eye for a pass was exceptional.
Since he looked so scary and was such a ferocious tackler, people generally assumed he was a DM. He always had a DM besides him. Effeberg was more at home playing as a box-box midfielder. Similar to someone like Robson, who again shouldn't be classified as a defensive midfielder just because he was a very good tackler.
I'm still a bit dubious on Effenberg and Lucho midfield unless you have one more defensive minded midfielder (not a pure DM) along with them. Effenberg is a midfield general who leans more to the attack. Same as Lucho who can also provide width to the right. Like Effenberg's partners in Matthaus or Hargreaves.
Not saying they can't do the job, but if you are looking at adding a screen in front of your defense, they would not be that effective, imo.
It's Effenberg and Hierro. In any case, I wouldn't worry about the other pairing if it's the right setup. Effenberg doesn't need to be gung-ho, he can dictate play from midfield. Lucho instead... you would have the same issue I pointed out earlier with Keane, you can't ask someone who's natural instinct is to drive forward to sit deep. He puts in a great defensive shift but once you get possession he will be bursting up the pitch, asking him to do anything but that is folly.
I think your best formation should be a 4-1-3-2 with Hierro screening the defence and Nedved - Effenberg - Lucho dominating the midfield. Baggio is perfect as a free roaming second striker who can link midfield and offence!
It's the sort of thing I'd like to have as an option (a 5-3-2 with Hierro central as sweeper/anchor Stielike style). That's why I looked into Cafu, but Baggio is more important, as you point out.
You are dropping Boniek there though
You are dropping Boniek there though
It's the sort of thing I'd like to have as an option (a 5-3-2 with Hierro central as sweeper/anchor Stielike style). That's why I looked into Cafu, but Baggio is more important, as you point out.
You are dropping Boniek there though
Yeah. Abundance of resources, huh?
I'm a big fan of both your picks. I wanted them both in my team. That combo is absolutely
I'll be boring and take Deschamps
Again sorry for the delay
Again sorry for the delay
What are you planning? Figo when you have Mendieta.
Can understand Deschamps for Vieira... But where's your AM?
BASTIAN SCHWEINSTEIGER
Mmm, swapping Rui Costa for Schweini...interesting!
Figo will most likely replace Hazard on the right
more Ruud for me please.
@harms
@harms