The Reality Draft: Main Thread (Finals)

[Chesterlestreet]

Hmm, the question is, is it possible to have 3 box-to-box central midfielders in one team? Or is it overkill.

Decisions decisions.

I've been thinking about this myself lately. And my conclusion is that to have three box-to-box central midfielders is potentially the best sort of midfield you can have. If they're all bloody good, aren't painfully slow or painfully lazy - how can it be anything but brilliant?

They need to be on the same wavelength, though, needless to say. It's a radical move but one which can be defended if the three players in question are good enough.

 

[BorisDeLeFora]

Feck it, interestingly enough, this pick will probably make potentially make me a bit more balanced and solid defensively, despite him generally being a playmaker.

Anyhow, Koke.

@antohan

 

[BorisDeLeFora]

01. Annahnomoss - (3. Tardelli) 1. Cocu 2. Gentile 4. Amoros 5. Rossi 6. Gascoigne 7. Scirea 8. Bossis 9. Littbarski
02. Chesterlestreet - (7. Lahm) 1. Mascherano 2. Nedved 3. Neeskens 4. Beckham 5. Henry 6. Júnior, 8. Buchwald 9. G. Neville
03. Joga Bonito - (4. O Ardiles) 1. Keown 2. Baggio 3. Figo 5. Weah 6. Søren Lerby 7. Cafú 8. Koeman 9. De Rossi
04. Raees - (2. Makelele) 1. Morena 3. Socrates 4. Conti 5. Stoichkov 6. Ballack 7. Zanetti, 8. Costacurta 9. Terry
05. antohan - (3. Gerrard) 1. Ljungberg 2. Boniek 4. Effenberg 5. Raul 6. Luis Enrique 7. Hierro 8. T. Silva 9. Ferrara
06. BorisDeLeFora - (7. Bergomi) 1. Zambrotta 2. Tigana 3. Robson 4. Cerezo 5. Del Piero 6. Klinsmann 8. Lucio 9. Popescu 10. Koke
07. ctp - (6. Ribéry) 1. Brolin 2. Lato 3. Xavi 4. Guardiola 5. Shevchenko 7. Kohler 8. Carvalho 9. Kakà 10. Carvajal
08. Skizzo - (7. Brehme) 1. Solskjaer 2. Cabrini 3. Schuster 4. K. Förster 5. Hugo Sanchez 6. Barnes 8. Deschamps 9. McGrain 10. Marquinhos
09. MJJ (Theon) - (4. Dalglish) 1. Di Livio 2. Souness 3. Bochini 5. Rivaldo 6. McGrath 7. Sammer 8. Campbell 9. Totti 10. Ricardo Rodriguez
10. Jayvin - (3. Iniesta) 1. Gallas 2. Vieira 4. Lizarazu 5. Romario 6. Overmars 7. Desailly 8. Blanc 9. Xabi Alonso 10. Hazard
11. Stobzilla - (8. Jugovic) 1. Camoranesi 2. Hansen 3. Davids 4. Balakov 5. Batistuta 6. Irwin 7. Passarella 9. Pires 10. Strootman
12. Aldo - (7. Rio) 1. Senna 2. Hagi 3. Pirlo 4. Schweinsteiger 5. RvN 6. Tresor 8. Camacho 9. Gerets 10. Neymar
13. The Red Viper - (5. Simonsen) 1. Prosinečki 2. Robben 3. Scholes 4. Vidic 6. Eto'o 7. Stam 8. Rui Costa 9. Dunga 10. Rafael Da Silva
14. VivaJanuzaj - (7. Nesta) 1. Francescoli 2. Seedorf 3. Breitner 4. Vierchowod 5. Rummenigge 6. Savicevic 8. Verón 9. Adams 10. Alaba
15. harms - (1. Puyol) 2. Blokhin 3. Falcao 4. Roberto Carlos 5. Bergkamp 6.Bonhof 7. Ruggeri 8. Willy Ortiz 9. Stielike 10. Varane
16. crappycraperson - (7. Cannavaro) 1. Nadal 2. M. Kempes 3. Roy Keane 4. Jan Ceulemans 5. Shearer 6. Prohaska 8. Briegel 9. Ayala 10. Kroos

 

[harms]

I'd go with the Spanish option instead.

On the other hand, that Frenchman is highly (over)rated on the Caf.

Both spanish are too tbf (forgot about Koke ), even if not by that margin

 

[harms]

I've been thinking about this myself lately. And my conclusion is that to have three box-to-box central midfielders is potentially the best sort of midfield you can have. If they're all bloody good, aren't painfully slow or painfully lazy - how can it be anything but brilliant?

They need to be on the same wavelength, though, needless to say. It's a radical move but one which can be defended if the three players in question are good enough.

Was there a good 3 b2b midfield in real life? Genuine question. I can't think about one

 

[Chesterlestreet]

Ideally with a false nine - but even with a less creative striker them three boys would destroy pretty much anything you can throw at 'em. You certainly don't need any Pirlo style playmaker here. A top class box-to-box player has playmaking qualities on top of everything else: It's the completeness of the player type which makes him so incredibly useful and dangerous. Now, throw three of 'em at your opponent - and watch him burn.

And, yes, I realize that coming up with three players of that quality in a real-world side is next to impossible. But in a fantasy draft - sure, why the hell not. If you could sport those three together in the real world, they'd be immense - of that there is no doubt.

 

[Moby]

No one has anto's picks? :|

 

[Chesterlestreet]

Was there a good 3 b2b midfield in real life? Genuine question. I can't think about one

Not of the ridiculous sort illustrated above. Holland '74 operated with something like three box-to-boxes, one might argue. Their set-up would be the one which most closely resembles my idea - with Cruyff as the false nine. Though Jansen was more of a wide man than Falcao would be in my example*. Both Neeskens and Van Hanegem have to be labelled box-to-box, though - clearly so, I'd say.

* Which is not to say that Jansen was not box-to-box. I'd say he was. But more wide than Falcao would be.

 

[The Red Viper]

You don't need a Pirlo style playmaker because you have Redondo there. The guy was a master at controlling the tempo of the game. Not to forget Falcao as well.

 

[ctp]

Ideally with a false nine - but even with a less creative striker them three boys would destroy pretty much anything you can throw at 'em. You certainly don't need any Pirlo style playmaker here. A top class box-to-box player has playmaking qualities on top of everything else: It's the completeness of the player type which makes him so incredibly useful and dangerous. Now, throw three of 'em at your opponent - and watch him burn.

And, yes, I realize that coming up with three players of that quality in a real-world side is next to impossible. But in a fantasy draft - sure, why the hell not. If you could sport those three together in the real world, they'd be immense - of that there is no doubt.

I had a Ballack-Redondo-Schweinsteiger midfield in a newbie draft. That seemed to go down very well.

 

[Chesterlestreet]

I had a Ballack-Redondo-Schweinsteiger midfield in a newbie draft. That seemed to go down very well.

That ain't bad. Ideally Ballack would be a notch stronger defensively - but that ain't bad at all.

 

[harms]

Ideally with a false nine - but even with a less creative striker them three boys would destroy pretty much anything you can throw at 'em. You certainly don't need any Pirlo style playmaker here. A top class box-to-box player has playmaking qualities on top of everything else: It's the completeness of the player type which makes him so incredibly useful and dangerous. Now, throw three of 'em at your opponent - and watch him burn.

And, yes, I realize that coming up with three players of that quality in a real-world side is next to impossible. But in a fantasy draft - sure, why the hell not. If you could sport those three together in the real world, they'd be immense - of that there is no doubt.

Maybe I'm wrong but I wouldn't call Redondo box-to-box midfielder

Redondo is perfect for any b2b combination as a pivot, imo

 

[VivaJanuzaj]

So maybe I should add a box to box midfielder instead of Veron and play Seedorf--B2B--Breitner

 

[BorisDeLeFora]

My thinking was of this:

Width by the full backs who will always be covered, three midfielders who could all bomb forward knowing they'd be protected, lot of pressure on the striker to hold up the ball though tbf.

fecking Bergomi was perfect too.

 

[Moby]

Get a simple holding midfielder, Viva. I agree with anto's explanation and having someone like Deschamps (mainly someone disciplined and competent defensively and positionally and not a complete dud on the ball) who can bring the ball out and hand it over to your CMs would work just fine. It's a massive timeline and plenty of these still knocking about.

 

[Chesterlestreet]

Maybe I'm wrong but I wouldn't call Redondo box-to-box midfielder

Redondo is perfect for any b2b combination as a pivot, imo

Part and parcel of Redondo's game was his forays into the opposition half. He sat deep, ventured forward, fell back again, hit it long, hit it short, carried the ball into opposition territory - the works. He may have functioned as what people call a pivot today at times, but he certainly wasn't limited to that.

The tendency towards specialization in football has made his type all too rare. Like Matthäus or Falcao, he was a complete midfielder.

 

[Moby]

That's an overkill, Boris. Robson was great at getting in the box but that midfield really lacks creativity. And I'd swap Tigana and Cerezo (putting Cerezo on the right) as his distribution was easily better than the Frenchman. That midfield would not get run over obviously but it's way too defensive for my liking, also makes one of the CMs redundant as you'd get pretty much everything you want from a combination of two of those and can easily add a playmaker (may I say a left footed genius is waiting to be picked, for example).

 

[Raees]

So maybe I should add a box to box midfielder instead of Veron and play Seedorf--B2B--Breitner

what you needed was a diamond. Seedorf and Brietner are perfect side midfielders in a diamond, both are already box to box.

 

[Raees]

Part and parcel of Redondo's game was his forays into the opposition half. He sat deep, ventured forward, fell back again, hit it long, hit it short, carried the ball into opposition territory - the works. He may have functioned as what people call a pivot today at times, but he certainly wasn't limited to that.

The tendency towards specialization in football has made his type all too rare. Like Matthäus or Falcao, he was a complete midfielder.

Redondo is one of those footballers you can't limit to a position I agree, so technically gifted that if you were to restrict him i.e. Makalele (10 yard passes).. serious waste of his talents.

 

[Moby]

I think I am clearly winning in the beards department.

 

[Moby]

Could have sworn Ruud once kept a big beard, or am I dreaming?

 

[Chesterlestreet]

There should be extra points for beards.

If you combine Pirlo's hair with Gerets' beard you're dangerously close to Charles Manson. That too should be worth a point, I reckon - scare the feck out of the opponents.

 

[Chesterlestreet]

Could have sworn Ruud once kept a big beard, or am I dreaming?

He was often unshaven to the point of having a beard, as I recall. Wasn't Santa Claus style by any stretch, though.

 

[harms]

Part and parcel of Redondo's game was his forays into the opposition half. He sat deep, ventured forward, fell back again, hit it long, hit it short, carried the ball into opposition territory - the works. He may have functioned as what people call a pivot today at times, but he certainly wasn't limited to that.

The tendency towards specialization in football has made his type all too rare. Like Matthäus or Falcao, he was a complete midfielder.

Of course he wasn't a Makelele-type player, but he was at his best in my opinion, sitting deeper and controlling the game with his brilliant playmaking while breaking opposition attacks. But, like almost every truly great player, he was capable of much more (we all remember him at Old Trafford) and, of course, sometimes run forward, went on the flanks, depending on a game situation.

Again, I maybe wrong, but b2b is a little different type of players for me. He had all technical and physical attributes to play as one, but he was better deeper - it's much harder to control the game from a box-2-box position - even if you have a brilliant vision and passing technique, you need to move too much up and down the pitch. Look at Scholes, for example - he became more influential to the team's build-up when he changed his game and sat back mostly. He still was capable of an occasional screamer (versus Barca, for example) or a late run into the box, of course, but would you call him a box-2-box player at this point of his career?

 

[Chesterlestreet]

There you are, Aldo. Another beardo. Not a grand beard, but it's definitely a beard.

 

[BorisDeLeFora]

That's an overkill, Boris. Robson was great at getting in the box but that midfield really lacks creativity. And I'd swap Tigana and Cerezo (putting Cerezo on the right) as his distribution was easily better than the Frenchman. That midfield would not get run over obviously but it's way too defensive for my liking, also makes one of the CMs redundant as you'd get pretty much everything you want from a combination of two of those and can easily add a playmaker (may I say a left footed genius is waiting to be picked, for example).

Yeah no you're right, that's why I went with Koke, can slot in to make it a diamond or on the right for a 4-3-3 if I want to do that. The idea with that formation was pure counter attack, with 5 players bombing from deep consistently.

 

[Chesterlestreet]

Of course he wasn't a Makelele-type player, but he was at his best in my opinion, sitting deeper and controlling the game with his brilliant playmaking while breaking opposition attacks. But, like almost every truly great player, he was capable of much more (we all remember him at Old Trafford) and, of course, sometimes run forward, went on the flanks, depending on a game situation.

Again, I maybe wrong, but b2b is a little different type of players for me. He had all technical and physical attributes to play as one, but he was better deeper - it's much harder to control the game from a box-2-box position - even if you have a brilliant vision and passing technique, you need to move too much up and down the pitch. Look at Scholes, for example - he became more influential to the team's build-up when he changed his game and sat back mostly. He still was capable of an occasional screamer (versus Barca, for example) or a late run into the box, of course, but would you call him a box-2-box player at this point of his career?

No, I wouldn't. I fail to see the relevance, though. Scholes transformed his game as he got older and became far less dynamic than Redondo was. Redondo operated from box to box as part of his natural style. He contributed significantly both defensively and offensively and his area of operation was large - larger than that of a present-day "pivot", I'd say. What one chooses to call this role of his is largely academic - these terms come and go.

The question is whether a player like Redondo - what I would label a complete midfielder - could work in harness with two players of a similar ilk and form a midfield which wouldn't only be functional, but great - in spite of not following the formula of having, say, a holder, a box-to-box and an attacking midfielder. My answer is yes - it would work and it would be one hell of a combination.

Trouble is that yer Redondos don't exactly grow on trees.

 

[antohan]

Wow... can't believe the options you guys left for me. I'm scratching my head here working whether to go for the sober approach or just let shit fly. Problem with the latter approach is there are still two other players I need.

But then, if I get one of the leftbacks I'm tied to four at the back.

 

[antohan]

Yeah no you're right, that's why I went with Koke, can slot in to make it a diamond or on the right for a 4-3-3 if I want to do that. The idea with that formation was pure counter attack, with 5 players bombing from deep consistently.

I understand most had a packked midfield, but Koke lasting that long was absurd.

At the start of the draft I made a list: "if I need a RB so and so, if I need a CB so and so... and so on", some of my top fullback, DLP, midifield and 3/4 picks are staring at me right now... Never in my wildest muppet dreams did I expect that.

 

[VivaJanuzaj]

Wow... can't believe the options you guys left for me. I'm scratching my head here working whether to go for the sober approach or just let shit fly. Problem with the latter approach is there are still two other players I need.

But then, if I get one of the leftbacks I'm tied to four at the back.

Yeah some picks were incredibly weird

 

[antohan]

If you look at what Raees and Joga lost in the Tevez round there's great replacements for those going here. I'm still mulling over one of them.

 

[antohan]

Yeah some picks were incredibly weird

Re: your point earlier, 3 b-2-b would be a better setting for your two attacking geniuses than Verón "dictating" from deep. You do however have a complete lack of outball from the centre of defence right now so wouldn't go there until you fix that.

I still think a Stielike works better than a third b2b though.

 

[antohan]

Youg uys were supposed to make this decision easy for me

 

[Chesterlestreet]

I suggest muting the sound.

But the point is that this is the work of an allround midfielder, contributing from box to box, both left and right, covering-every-blade-of-grass sort of thing.

And we don't even get to see most of the off-the-ball runs and covering work he puts down in addition to being, well, the heart of the operation.

Oh, and there's a goal in there somewhere too which is rather famous, I'm told.

 

[antohan]

I'm reviewing whether I can get a couple of players I need to risk in the next round to make the decision, and came across my note on MJJ/Theon last round "LB-Alaba" It was THAT obvious.

 

[harms]

I suggest muting the sound.

But the point is that this is the work of an allround midfielder, contributing from box to box, both left and right, covering-every-blade-of-grass sort of thing.

And we don't even get to see most of the off-the-ball runs and covering work he puts down in addition to being, well, the heart of the operation.

Oh, and there's a goal in there somewhere too which is rather famous, I'm told.

Okay, I guess you're right.

 

[Moby]

What was your note for me?

 

[antohan]

I suggest muting the sound.

But the point is that this is the work of an allround midfielder, contributing from box to box, both left and right, covering-every-blade-of-grass sort of thing.

And we don't even get to see most of the off-the-ball runs and covering work he puts down in addition to being, well, the heart of the operation.

Oh, and there's a goal in there somewhere too which is rather famous, I'm told.

I do agree with others though that if you have Matthäus and Falcao already in that midfield they'd do that and Redondo would take a more defensive/stabilising role. You risk having a bunch of headless chicken running around otherwise.

 

[ctp]

Youg uys were supposed to make this decision easy for me

I'd once again suggest going for the Spaniard. The other one this time

 

[antohan]

What was your note for me?

He is fecked. No, seriously, it was insane you got Neymar. Considering Camacho could play either flank I thought you would pick a fullback still knocking around. But then you got Gerets.