The Overlap - Ole Gunnar Solskjaer

Ole is a legend but really his style of football here was a variation of what Jose had us play where we often felt like the underdog against the best sides, and that hasn't changed under EtH either. I really want a manager that comes in and starts demanding that we dictate games not the opposition.

I wish him well in the future and as he said, hopefully his next job will give him more freedom and a better structure that he didn't get at United.
 
Raoul said:
The massive difference of course being its Ronaldo, and Pep, despite being seen as a "sum is greater than the parts" type manager, is also aware of the calibre of player Ronaldo was. Remember, this is immediately after Aguero left and before Haaland was on the radar, so he needed a goal scorer. CR7 managed 24 goals for us that year, and its not outside the realm of possibility he would've gotten 30 with the quality he would've been surrounded by at City, especially when you consider De Bruyne was their leading scorer the year before.
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Do city do last minute summer signings?

Ronaldo wasn’t actually looking for a move until august at which time city had decided to not sign a striker.

And it was Ronaldo who was on a downward trajectory and who was bringing baggae. It’s not like he left Juventus on great terms. You look at citys signings and I’m not sure you find many over 30 when they joined.

There’s more to suggest he didn’t make sense for me but as others have said, I’m not Pep.
 
His tenure was the most enjoyment I've had since SAF retired, it's a shame how it worked out. I always felt we were making steady progress up until Ronaldo joined. The media clearly had it in for Ole and we were at peak "no patterns of play" rubbish as they undermined him at every opportunity, in their somewhat unfair comparisons to Pep and Klopp. But the football was exciting for decent periods, far beyond what we've seen before or since IMO. Once teams figured out that they could nullify us by keeping compact we started to struggle. We didn't have the players to unlock those kinds of tactics and many people severely overestimated the ability of the squad at the time, suggesting he was holding back the unquestionable talent in the squad. It's a shame he didn't win a trophy, but it could quite easily have been otherwise.

He dealt with the same shitshow the rest of our managers have had to endure, but I felt more progress and enjoyment with him than any others. Him, McKenna, and Carrick were an underrated team.
 
LawCharltonBest said:
Is that seriously your question
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Yes, it’s hardly as if we had first dibs on them and said we weren’t interested. We tried signing both and we missed out on them just like every other top club apart from Manchester City and Real Madrid missed out on them
 
Chumpsbechumps said:
Do city do last minute summer signings?

Ronaldo wasn’t actually looking for a move until august at which time city had decided to not sign a striker.

And it was Ronaldo who was on a downward trajectory and who was bringing baggae. It’s not like he left Juventus on great terms. You look at citys signings and I’m not sure you find many over 30 when they joined.

There’s more to suggest he didn’t make sense for me but as others have said, I’m not Pep.
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Nunes in 2023, Akanji in 2022.

The whole world knew they were getting ready for a proper poacher-type number 9 coming in in 2022 in Haaland, so I find it strange people have such a hard time believing they would have signed Ronaldo as a stopgap of sorts in 2021.
 
He’s just so fecking likeable. Didn’t rate him as a manager but will always love Ole.
 
JB7 said:
Nunes in 2023, Akanji in 2022.

The whole world knew they were getting ready for a proper poacher-type number 9 coming in in 2022 in Haaland, so I find it strange people have such a hard time believing they would have signed Ronaldo as a stopgap of sorts in 2021.
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Again, they haven’t made a Ronaldo kind of signing so it’s hard to see them doing it. And the baggage that everyone knew came with him would have surely been a red flag for Pep.

Just seems like a high risk signing for what they normally do.
 
He has played this beautifully. Stay silent and then come out with some lovely PR right when the club are at their lowest. We now have people claiming that he was the best manager since Fergie!

A large part of the reason we are so bad now is down to his recruitment and lack of discipline in the squad.

He seems a lovely guy, is a club legend and that needs to be stated, but he is also a large contributing factor as to why we are so bad now.

Mistakes that he made, and hasn’t owned up to, are still being felt by the club today. van Gaal successfully implemented a style of play and won the FA Cup. Mourinho finished on over 80 points and won us a European trophy.

Ole is not the best manager since Ferguson, and I would argue that his tenure did far more damage than good.
 
Maluco said:
He has played this beautifully. Stay silent and then come out with some lovely PR right when the club are at their lowest. We now have people claiming that he was the best manager since Fergie!

A large part of the reason we are so bad now is down to his recruitment and lack of discipline in the squad.

He seems a lovely guy, is a club legend and that needs to be stated, but he is also a large contributing factor as to why we are so bad now.

Mistakes that he made, and hasn’t owned up to, are still being felt by the club today. van Gaal successfully implemented a style of play and won the FA Cup. Mourinho finished on over 80 points and won us a European trophy.

Ole is not the best manager since Ferguson, and I would argue that his tenure did far more damage than good.
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You can say that about every manager we've had.
 
RedSky said:
If you look at just Premier League Games then you get the following:

Manager​
Win %​
Loss %​
CS​
Games​
W​
D​
L​
GF​
GA​
GD​
Pts​
Pts Per Game​
Jose​
53.76%​
18.28%​
38​
93​
50​
26​
17​
151​
86​
+65​
176​
1.9​
Ten Hag​
56.92%​
30.77%​
24​
65​
37​
8​
20​
95​
82​
+13​
119​
1.8​
LVG​
51.32%​
23.68%​
29​
76​
39​
19​
18​
111​
72​
+39​
136​
1.8​
Ole​
52.58%​
19.59%​
31​
97​
51​
27​
19​
175​
105​
+70​
180​
1.9​

It's actually pretty close between Jose and Ole. The big difference is that we scored more often under Ole but also conceded more. It's also interesting to see how similar all four of our Managers have been with Points per Game.
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We actually scored more per game under Ole than we did under any manager post Sir Matt Busby. One thing that goes unnoticed in his tenure thanks to his last month was that our defensive record under him was very decent. Not Jose level good, but the fact that our GD per game under him was higher than any manager in our history speaks volumes of how underrated his tenure with us was.
 
Chumpsbechumps said:
Again, they haven’t made a Ronaldo kind of signing so it’s hard to see them doing it. And the baggage that everyone knew came with him would have surely been a red flag for Pep.

Just seems like a high risk signing for what they normally do.
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Who has? It was a freak type of situation for a player who wouldn't usually be available at that stage of the season. It was a risk obviously but also realistically it was a risk that they would have got rid of after a year however it went. You asked if they did late summer business and they did in the last two summers, so it's hardly inconceivable that they would have done in 2021, particularly given the clear one year hole in their side.
 
Zen86 said:
You can say that about every manager we've had.
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That’s probably also true, although I would say that Van Gaal left a good base for a more adventurous manager to build on and we could visibly see the results of coaching on the squad and Mourinho made us winners again and probably had the best squad of players since Ferguson left.

Ole has lumbered us with some very expensive failures, and the discipline in the squad is clearly a mess following his tenure.

Of all the managers post-Ferguson, I think that Ole left the squad in the worst shape upon his exit. Both in terms of mentality and in terms of talent.
 
Two things that frustrate me the most are the players' reluctance to wear an armband and the fact that we missed the opportunity to sign Bellingham
Says much about the club's state in the last ten years
 
Robbie Boy said:
:lol:

I'm also guessing he hasn't played a-lot? His career really went down the shitter when he joined us.
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Looks like 5 games, all being sub or subbed off. No assists or goals. No idea if he's done ok or not to be honest.
 
It's a sad reflection on the state of our squad but I think people underestimate how much better we'd have done this season if we'd kept Fred.
 
UnsungHero said:
While I thought sacking Ole was the right thing to do, I'd like to see him come in and replace Ten Hag for the remainder of the season. Anything to free us from his terrible football and robotic personality.
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Honestly I agree with you. I don't know how this sounds, but I won't oppose OGS or Carrick in the interim. Solksjaer had a pattern of play, even his counter attacking football was interesting to watch. He understood the "United way. Ten hag lacks any serious pattern of play - that's my biggest issue with him.
 
Maluco said:
That’s probably also true, although I would say that Van Gaal left a good base for a more adventurous manager to build on and we could visibly see the results of coaching on the squad and Mourinho made us winners again and probably had the best squad of players since Ferguson left.

Ole has lumbered us with some very expensive failures, and the discipline in the squad is clearly a mess following his tenure.

Of all the managers post-Ferguson, I think that Ole left the squad in the worst shape upon his exit. Both in terms of mentality and in terms of talent.
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Also true of every manager.

Mourinho was the definition of toxic short-termism, Van Gaal gutted the squad and left it a complete mess. Neither had a ‘style of play’, certainly not the kind which the fanbase wants to see anyway.
 
horsechoker said:
Would the Ronaldo signing have worked out if we brought in a better winger than Sancho?

Ronaldo was on the slide but his goal return was decent that season and in a better team he might've been just enough to do something serious.

Perhaps Ole had a plan for Sancho, I don't even think he was regular starter in the short time they worked together. Ole spoke about identifying the right kind of player for United but Sancho has proven to not be that so I wonder if he met him enough or he misjudged his character.
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Define "worked". Would a better winger have helped? No doubt. But we still had serious midfield issues that entire season as well as the chuckle brothers at the back. People like to blame the entire season on Ronaldo but especially in the spring he was basically the only bright spot. Rashford was horrid. Martial was injured. Sancho was sancho. Pogba was injured.
 
Maluco said:
That’s probably also true, although I would say that Van Gaal left a good base for a more adventurous manager to build on and we could visibly see the results of coaching on the squad and Mourinho made us winners again and probably had the best squad of players since Ferguson left.

Ole has lumbered us with some very expensive failures, and the discipline in the squad is clearly a mess following his tenure.

Of all the managers post-Ferguson, I think that Ole left the squad in the worst shape upon his exit. Both in terms of mentality and in terms of talent.
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Yeah this ain't it
 
Valencia Shin Crosses said:
Define "worked". Would a better winger have helped? No doubt. But we still had serious midfield issues that entire season as well as the chuckle brothers at the back. People like to blame the entire season on Ronaldo but especially in the spring he was basically the only bright spot. Rashford was horrid. Martial was injured. Sancho was sancho. Pogba was injured.
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Blaming Ronaldo for Ole's failures is just a convenient RedCafe excuse. A hell of a-lot of people thought it's more likely we would crash and burn after the 2nd place finish, than build upon it. It was a decent season, nothing more, in a season where 2nd place required a relatively low points total.
 
Gabriel Djemba-Bebe said:
Confirmed my suspicions of how things fell apart in those last few months. You could tell at the time that he wanted to transition us from a counter attacking team that finished 3rd and 2nd to a team that dominated games and had more control. It was the right idea but the wrong execution in terms of the players we signed. When you spend big money on Ronaldo, Sancho and Varane in one window and they're not willing to work hard during difficult moments in games, then you know it's the beginning of the end.
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Honestly his big issues were the Maguire signing and trusting McFred far too much. I think he should have stuck to being transitional based team and just signed upgrades in those departments. Varane and another top athletic CB, a true destroying DM, a better/quicker RW and a striker upgrade and that team has a real chance of doing something. He was never good enough to coach a squad into being a structure orientied passing unit, and especially not with so many of the players he had in the squad (that he himself rated it seems). But doubling down on us being a mid block team with more output from the RW and up top and a stable DM and he would have had his best shot at really competing for stuff, because as much as I had issues with many of Ole's decisions/tactics, there is 0 doubt he knew how to have our teams counter with lethal potency. Especially compared to watching our squad try to counter now where players don't seem to have any set plan when there is a chance to break.
 
Gavinb33 said:
Yeah this ain't it
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I think you need to compare the two squads again then. Our best players in 2024 are three under 21s who we depend on for results.

I think that says it all about the squad.
 
Robbie Boy said:
Blaming Ronaldo for Ole's failures is just a convenient RedCafe excuse. A hell of a-lot of people thought it's more likely we would crash and burn after the 2nd place finish, than build upon it. It was a decent season, nothing more, in a season where 2nd place required a relatively low points total.
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Yeah the 2nd place season is looked upon far more fondly than it should be in my opinion. It was a lot of Bruno penalties, some really crap football outside of Europa while we managed to never lose away from home, and the springtime was just us falling behind before Greenwood/Cavani/ or Pogba came to save the day.

19-20 will always be my favorite United team of the post SAF era, just sucks that the peak of that season was spent in lockdown.
 
Valencia Shin Crosses said:
Define "worked". Would a better winger have helped? No doubt. But we still had serious midfield issues that entire season as well as the chuckle brothers at the back. People like to blame the entire season on Ronaldo but especially in the spring he was basically the only bright spot. Rashford was horrid. Martial was injured. Sancho was sancho. Pogba was injured.
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Yes. Ronaldo had a pretty good first season. The team around him played shit though. That was around the time that Harry Maguire became a world wide meme too. I guess we will never know if the team just turned shite for whatever random reason or if signing Ronaldo was the reason the team turned shite. The team had to adapt to Ronaldo or his teammates couldnt handle playing in a team with Ronaldo for whatever reason.

Not even prime Ronaldo could have made that team League winners. Nobody can make up for Maguire gifting goals every match and McT + Fred as a midfield duo.

Second season Ronaldo was horrid. He just lost 'it'. Even at the World Cup he looked like an amateur version of prime Ronaldo. Signing Ronaldo was, in hindsight, a bad decision but imagine if he won the league with City. People would have rioted about that too.
 
Valencia Shin Crosses said:
Yeah the 2nd place season is looked upon far more fondly than it should be in my opinion. It was a lot of Bruno penalties, some really crap football outside of Europa while we managed to never lose away from home, and the springtime was just us falling behind before Greenwood/Cavani/ or Pogba came to save the day.

19-20 will always be my favorite United team of the post SAF era, just sucks that the peak of that season was spent in lockdown.
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You think that's a coincidence ?
 
RedSky said:
If you look at just Premier League Games then you get the following:

Manager​
Win %​
Loss %​
CS​
Games​
W​
D​
L​
GF​
GA​
GD​
Pts​
Pts Per Game​
Jose​
53.76%​
18.28%​
38​
93​
50​
26​
17​
151​
86​
+65​
176​
1.9​
Ten Hag​
56.92%​
30.77%​
24​
65​
37​
8​
20​
95​
82​
+13​
119​
1.8​
LVG​
51.32%​
23.68%​
29​
76​
39​
19​
18​
111​
72​
+39​
136​
1.8​
Ole​
52.58%​
19.59%​
31​
97​
51​
27​
19​
175​
105​
+70​
180​
1.9​

It's actually pretty close between Jose and Ole. The big difference is that we scored more often under Ole but also conceded more. It's also interesting to see how similar all four of our Managers have been with Points per Game.
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What are stats for Klop and Pep?
 
Stadjer said:
Yes. Ronaldo had a pretty good first season. The team around him played shit though. That was around the time that Harry Maguire became a world wide meme too. I guess we will never know if the team just turned shite for whatever random reason or if signing Ronaldo was the reason the team turned shite. The team had to adapt to Ronaldo or his teammates couldnt handle playing in a team with Ronaldo for whatever reason.

Not even prime Ronaldo could have made that team League winners. Nobody can make up for Maguire gifting goals every match and McT + Fred as a midfield duo.

Second season Ronaldo was horrid. He just lost 'it'. Even at the World Cup he looked like an amateur version of prime Ronaldo. Signing Ronaldo was, in hindsight, a bad decision but imagine if he won the league with City. People would have rioted about that too.
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Yeah Ronaldo last year was terrible. Was pretty clear he just had lost too many steps and he knew it as well in game by some of his decisions. His first year he was still very good for as poor as the team was and where he was in his career.

I think Ole's final year people had chosen to ignore a lot of the red flags from the previous season just because we finished second. A decent amount of our goals were out of thin air, and we had a much better GA than the underlying metrics suggested we should. Varane was a good signing for the price but we all know Sancho was a flop now and then you of course had Ronaldo. But I'm not quite sure if two better signings in place of those two really paper over the cracks either, not with the injuries we had that year too.
 
Irwin99 said:
Ole is a legend but really his style of football here was a variation of what Jose had us play where we often felt like the underdog against the best sides, and that hasn't changed under EtH either. I really want a manager that comes in and starts demanding that we dictate games not the opposition.

I wish him well in the future and as he said, hopefully his next job will give him more freedom and a better structure that he didn't get at United.
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Can only dictate games if have better players than opponents. Manager has to play the way that gives the best chance of winning and the fact that the Jose, Ole and ETH all play this way is a reflection on the playwrs they have/had at their disposal
 
the_cliff said:
You think that's a coincidence ?
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I don't subscribe to the "oh we shrink in front of crowds" thing because it can't really be quantified. So yes it's a coincidence in my opinion. I don't think the lack of crowds turned Martial into the best all around striker for a season that we've had post RVP, or had Bruno and Pogba destroying teams creating in transition, or made Greenwood lethal in front of goal. The team just "clicked" mainly because of our attack and we were relatively injury free during lockdown.
 
Pronewbie said:
It's a sad reflection on the state of our squad but I think people underestimate how much better we'd have done this season if we'd kept Fred.
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He may have helped a bit in terms of midfield stability, but the lack of goals, which is our main Achilles heel, wouldn't have been much different.
 
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