The natural successor: Has Neymar blown it?

fergies coat said:
He has a weak mentality. I've never seen him have a good game. If he's worth 200 million then Andy Cole would of been worth 400 million in today's market.
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I always say the same, I've seen maybe one or two good games if that. I may just be unlucky of course.

Scores nearly all his goals against poor teams but because he does it with a few silky tricks every now and again the youtube demographic the ESL were targeting rave about him. Top players use their skill to become more effective and help the team.
 
gibers said:
Who exactly was he going to pass to? Most of the time when he released the ball his teammates lost the ball almost immediately! CR literally ball hogged and was criticised for it heavily :lol: PSG's team where simply awful. Neymar did no worse than Messi in the last few years bar the first leg against Pool. The era of hero ball is long gone.
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CR Ball hogged in a CL semifinal?, get outta here:wenger:. Might as well field 11 Neymars, or play him with10 cones if the guys he reached a final with last season,and the guys he watched destroy Barca, aren't good enough to play with him.
 
Smores said:
I always say the same, I've seen maybe one or two good games if that. I may just be unlucky of course.

Scores nearly all his goals against poor teams but because he does it with a few silky tricks every now and again the youtube demographic the ESL were targeting rave about him. Top players use their skill to become more effective and help the team.
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You’re not. You’re just doing what most non-Neymar/PSG fans do. Watching the games where his team is evenly matched and not watching the one-sided beat downs they enjoy most weekends.

And when you only watch Neymar against top class defences it brings home what an ineffective show pony he really is.
 
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Dominos said:
He had no team because he refused to pass to them. He gave the ball away every time he got it because he refused to release the ball and play the easy pass to keep the attack going. Countless times his team mates were in decent space and positions to receive the ball and he ignored them in favour of showing off his dribbling and inevitably got tackled.
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The team lost the ball plenty of times too. I give him more props for trying to take players on (and failing), then passing it back and waiting for the team to lose the ball even further back on the pitch, which they did plenty of times.

I mean come on, 90% of the time he got the ball in he second half there was only Icardi or Moise Kean in front of him. No full backs overlapping, no wide attackers, it wasn't even a challenge from PSG.

It's the same criticism people levelled at Pogba a few years ago, that he didn't win games on his own for us. It's a team that win games - City had better players in every other position other than Neymar today. You see it now with United, with Bruno and better attackers that Pogba looks better too.

You could swap any player in the world with Neymar today and they would not have made any difference to the match.
 
Bennz McCarthey17 said:
CR Ball hogged in a CL semifinal?, get outta here:wenger:. Might as well field 11 Neymars, or play him with10 cones if the guys he reached a final with last season,and the guys he watched destroy Barca, aren't good enough to play with him.
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Yeah he did. And he ball hogged in the 09 final and was shooting from daft distances and angles. Except with Barca they had Mbappe. They literally had no one to stretch the pitch and City defended masterfully.
 
marktan said:
The team lost the ball plenty of times too. I give him more props for trying to take players on (and failing), then passing it back and waiting for the team to lose the ball even further back on the pitch, which they did plenty of times.

I mean come on, 90% of the time he got the ball in he second half there was only Icardi or Moise Kean in front of him. No full backs overlapping, no wide attackers, it wasn't even a challenge from PSG.

It's the same criticism people levelled at Pogba a few years ago, that he didn't win games on his own for us. It's a team that win games - City had better players in every other position other than Neymar today. You see it now with United, with Bruno and better attackers that Pogba looks better too.

You could swap any player in the world with Neymar today and they would not have made any difference to the match.
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Every team loses the ball, but you should lose the ball attempting to play the correct way. This is CL semi final, not a school playground. When you try to dribble past 3 players every time you get the ball, there can only be 1 outcome - you get disposessed and the attack breaks down.

There were plenty of forward and passes out wide available when he had the ball, he just refused to play them. People aren't criticising him for not winning the game on his own, they're criticising him for the opposite. He was trying to win an 11 vs 11 football match on his own, when he could have given his team a chance by passing the ball to players who weren't surrounded. If they fail to do the correct things when they receive the ball, that's on them. But the idea that you can hog the ball and refuse to pass because "well my team mates will probably lose it anyway" is just absurd, this is the highest level professional football.
 
What's with all the "he's never done it in a big game" shouts?

Didn't he score in a CL final and an El Clasico or two?
 
JSArsenal said:
What's with all the "he's never done it in a big game" shouts?

Didn't he score in a CL final and an El Clasico or two?
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The cafe has never liked Neymar.

I mean he was good vs Bayern just recently in both legs.
 
Far too selfish today.
Wasted some good opportunities by shooting in a block of City defenders instead of passing to his free team mate.

Against us he was really, really good, but the 2 games against City were very underwhelming.
 
marktan said:
The team lost the ball plenty of times too. I give him more props for trying to take players on (and failing), then passing it back and waiting for the team to lose the ball even further back on the pitch, which they did plenty of times.

I mean come on, 90% of the time he got the ball in he second half there was only Icardi or Moise Kean in front of him. No full backs overlapping, no wide attackers, it wasn't even a challenge from PSG.

It's the same criticism people levelled at Pogba a few years ago, that he didn't win games on his own for us. It's a team that win games - City had better players in every other position other than Neymar today. You see it now with United, with Bruno and better attackers that Pogba looks better too.

You could swap any player in the world with Neymar today and they would not have made any difference to the match.
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I don't see how you are highlighting neymar as psg,'s stand out player. He was poor and the City equivalents were better
 
Dominos said:
Every team loses the ball, but you should lose the ball attempting to play the correct way. This is CL semi final, not a school playground. When you try to dribble past 3 players every time you get the ball, there can only be 1 outcome - you get disposessed and the attack breaks down.

There were plenty of forward and passes out wide available when he had the ball, he just refused to play them. People aren't criticising him for not winning the game on his own, they're criticising him for the opposite. He was trying to win an 11 vs 11 football match on his own, when he could have given his team a chance by passing the ball to players who weren't surrounded. If they fail to do the correct things when they receive the ball, that's on them. But the idea that you can hog the ball and refuse to pass because "well my team mates will probably lose it anyway" is just absurd, this is the highest level professional football.
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The point is, which you seem to keep missing, is that Neymar did pass many times too - and many times the team tried to play out from the back and failed. In fact City's second goal was a counter-attack directly as a result of this.

So the choice really eventually became - 1) Pass to Moise Keane, Herrera or Paredes until they pass it sideways and lose it again or 2) Try to beat a man or two, create some space for your team mates to score a goal.

It didn't work. But I applaud him for trying. I can't remember any of his team mates beating a man let alone even come close to scoring a goal.
 
thepolice123 said:
Neymar is 29.
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Oh didn’t realised he was 29 already. He surely has been wasting his time in France. He is not bad at all, still among the elite dribbler and such, but he could have done more.

I mean, let’s look at his peak years at Barca, the time when many people think he could challenge Messi and Ronaldo for Ballon D’or in future:

Barca (top 1 league)
At 23: 39 goals 7 assists in 51 games
At 24: 31 goals 16 assists in 49 games

And now let’s look at his supposedly “peak years” at France:

PSG (top 5 league)
At 27: 23 goals 9 assists in 28 games
At 28: 19 goals 10 assist in 27 games
At 29: 15 goals 6 assist in 27 games

His output per mins still good I supposed, but don’t forget he is playing at French league in a far dominant side with 7+ chances put on plate every game. His total output is surely lacking, which is also far worst than Ronaldo at age 33-36 or Messi at 33+. I know he is earning a lot in PSG, and he is also having some injuries problem there, but what a waste of career in France.
 
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I thought he was extremely poor in the second half. Tried to turn it into the Neymar show and countless dribbles failed. Also acted like a prick when he made both teams wait on the pitch while he tied his shoelaces in the tunnel.
 
RedRonaldo said:
Oh didn’t realised he was 29 already. He surely has been wasting his time in France. He is not bad at all, still among the elite dribbler and such, but he could have done more.

I mean, let’s look at his peak years at Barca, the time when many people think he could challenge Messi and Ronaldo for Ballon D’or in future:

Barca (top 1 league)
At 23: 39 goals 7 assists in 51 games
At 24: 31 goals 16 assists in 49 games

And now let’s look at his supposedly “peak years” at France:

PSG (top 5 league)
At 27: 23 goals 9 assists in 28 games
At 28: 19 goals 10 assist in 27 games
At 29: 15 goals 6 assist in 27 games

His output per mins still good I supposed, but don’t forget he is playing at French league in a far dominant side with 7+ chances put on plate every game. His total output is surely lacking, which is also far worst than Ronaldo at age 33-36 or Messi at 33+. I know he is earning a lot in PSG, and he is also having some injuries problem there, but what a waste of career in France.
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He had Messi and Suárez in Barça. Not the same in PSG.
 
gibers said:
Yeah he did. And he ball hogged in the 09 final and was shooting from daft distances and angles. Except with Barca they had Mbappe. They literally had no one to stretch the pitch and City defended masterfully.
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Cristiano was too busy chasing shadows, to hog the ball against that Barca side. Your boy needs to learn that he will never win a CL knockout tie on his own. Let alone a Semifinal where the margins are too tight. But at 29 years old, I doubt he will ever change. He needs a Roy Keane to tell him, to pass the freaking ball. PSG lacks those type of leaders on the pitch.
 
Psg are average . I have always maintained that. Great players in the forward line and a decent cb in marquinhos. After that it's average players everywhere. That's includes Veratti too, he reminds me of Dybala. Haven't done much in their careers but are considered world class.
 
Always the same. He's just not as good as he thinks he is. His arrogance coupled with his talent mean he will always try the spectacular and occasionally top up his highlights reel, but when it comes down to it he is unable to influence a big game in the way the best players can. You can count on one hand the times he's made the difference in a game that counts.
 
His main issue is that he has no introspection when it comes to his game. He will doing the same thing over and over again, it's still a team's game and you need to involve others, as shit as you think they are
 
SS said:
I see people say this a lot, but I've never got that vibe. Say what you want about his diving antics, but on the pitch, he's usually the one forcing the issue. Barca's comeback against PSG being the obvious case. Also, if your assumptions happened to be true, why would he leave Barca at all? Seemed like an easy enough life. I thought it was widely understood that the whole reason he left was because he had a point to prove?
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This would be true if he came to a club like ours at the time. There was nothing to prove at PSG, they steamroll most of the league most years and he'd have a good enough squad around him to compete in the Champions League. This was definitely a decision driven by money, which like I said, I can respect. Especially knowing how short their careers could be. As far as forcing the issue is concerned, I personally don't agree with that, but maybe that's because I don't see it and you do.
 
RedRonaldo said:
Oh didn’t realised he was 29 already. He surely has been wasting his time in France. He is not bad at all, still among the elite dribbler and such, but he could have done more.

I mean, let’s look at his peak years at Barca, the time when many people think he could challenge Messi and Ronaldo for Ballon D’or in future:

Barca (top 1 league)
At 23: 39 goals 7 assists in 51 games
At 24: 31 goals 16 assists in 49 games

And now let’s look at his supposedly “peak years” at France:

PSG (top 5 league)
At 27: 23 goals 9 assists in 28 games
At 28: 19 goals 10 assist in 27 games
At 29: 15 goals 6 assist in 27 games

His output per mins still good I supposed, but don’t forget he is playing at French league in a far dominant side with 7+ chances put on plate every game. His total output is surely lacking, which is also far worst than Ronaldo at age 33-36 or Messi at 33+. I know he is earning a lot in PSG, and he is also having some injuries problem there, but what a waste of career in France.
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I agree with your general post except this part. More often than not, he's the one who puts it on a plate for others, not the other way around
 
kouroux said:
I agree with your general post except this part. More often than not, he's the one who puts it on a plate for others, not the other way around
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That’s true, but point is, when PSG is having 70% possession most of time in opponents half, it creates better platform for him to create something out of it, even most often not as a receiving end.
 
RedRonaldo said:
That’s true, but point is, when PSG is having 70% possession most of time in opponents half, it creates better platform for him to create something out of it, even most often not as a receiving end.
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I agree, watching him in the ligue 1 is fun at times and he clearly takes the piss. However it's in the CL where the expectation is higher, the man is getting torn into pieces in every french media. He has never come close to replicating his Barca in the CL for PSG on a regular basis. It makes you wonder what was the point of that mega transfer ? It also played a role in the inflation of prices of many other transfers
 
Rojow said:
He had Messi and Suárez in Barça. Not the same in PSG.
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Yeah, Di maria and Mbappe are second rate payers...

He should've never have gone to the french league. This isn't a league where you can get better or peak because the weekly opposition simply isn't up to the task. PSG implode every single year in Europe without fail because the only worthy opponents are in the CL and they're mentally not used to it.
 
Can't believe he spent the best years of his career in Ligue 1 sprinkled with the annual humiliation in the Champions League. Hopefully it serves as a warning to Mbappe.
 
Zehner said:
I don't think Rivaldo even in his prime was a level or two above Neymar. Rivaldo was great, no doubt, but Neymar is better.
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I rate Neymar a lot. He's one of the greatest 1v1 players of all time - probably top 5/6 - and much better than Rivaldo, who was no slouch in that regard, in his ball-carrying abilities and manipulation in tight spaces. But while Rivaldo became better when the stakes got higher, too often Neymar has gone the other way. There is a huge gulf in their big-game mentality. The best Brazilians are separated by what they have done at major tournaments. Rivaldo's had 3 bites at the cherry: the 1998 World Cup where he was one of the best players, the 1999 Copa America which he won as the best player by some distance, and the 2002 World Cup where he was outstanding in winning and for many the best Brazilian. Over the course of 3 tournaments he has knocked it out park each time. Neymar has played 4 major international tournaments and only the 2014 World Cup has he come out with any real credit. Now it's not fair to expect the same level of success as Rivaldo (2 wins and 1 runner-up) because of the quality of the rest of the team, but setting that aside Neymar hasn't performed to his abilities outwith 2014. And when it came to the crunch against Belgium in 2018 he reverted to hero-mode, trying to win it all on his own, but to the detriment to the team. A pattern in big games that is seriously affecting his legacy. The fact his best 'tournament' showing and only international success was a Confederations Cup sums up where he has turned up, which is in stark comparison to a serial big-game performer like Rivaldo.
 
Gio said:
I rate Neymar a lot. He's one of the greatest 1v1 players of all time - probably top 5/6 - and much better than Rivaldo, who was no slouch in that regard, in his ball-carrying abilities and manipulation in tight spaces. But while Rivaldo became better when the stakes got higher, too often Neymar has gone the other way. There is a huge gulf in their big-game mentality. The best Brazilians are separated by what they have done at major tournaments. Rivaldo's had 3 bites at the cherry: the 1998 World Cup where he was one of the best players, the 1999 Copa America which he won as the best player by some distance, and the 2002 World Cup where he was outstanding in winning and for many the best Brazilian. Over the course of 3 tournaments he has knocked it out park each time. Neymar has played 4 major international tournaments and only the 2014 World Cup has he come out with any real credit. Now it's not fair to expect the same level of success as Rivaldo (2 wins and 1 runner-up) because of the quality of the rest of the team, but setting that aside Neymar hasn't performed to his abilities outwith 2014. And when it came to the crunch against Belgium in 2018 he reverted to hero-mode, trying to win it all on his own, but to the detriment to the team. A pattern in big games that is seriously affecting his legacy. The fact his best 'tournament' showing and only international success was a Confederations Cup sums up where he has turned up, which is in stark comparison to a serial big-game performer like Rivaldo.
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I don't know, Neymar's title ambitions have been ruined by various injuries. In 2014 for Brazil and afterwards multiple times in the CL. I believe this only was the second time PSG went out of the CL with a fit Neymar?

Moreover, I think this emphasis on titles is a more recent thing. I don't remember that this was the go to criterion back in the day when Rivaldo was playing. Class was the defining factor and Neymar possesses more of it than Rivaldo, IMO.

And finally, I believe the factor team performance is underrated when judging "clutch performances of individuals". If your team is dominated by the opponent collectively, there's not much an individual can do. It's no coincidence that we're having these kinds of discussions about every top player there is, even Messi and Cristiano.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
You’re not. You’re just doing what most non-Neymar/PSG fans do. Watching the games where his team is evenly matched and not watching the one-sided beat downs they enjoy most weekends.

And when you only watch Neymar against top class defences it brings home what an ineffective show pony he really is.
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Rubbish. 67 goal involvements in 67 Champions league games, second highest scorer of all time for Brazil. Yesterday was difficult for him because City defended well in numbers but please let’s not be silly about this. Has he had Messi’s career? Certainly not. But he’s been a great player in every competition for every team he’s played for.
 
Compared with Romario, rivaldo, Ronaldo, this guy is just a crying baby and a poison to the team. Amazing to see people even want him here.
 
kouroux said:
His main issue is that he has no introspection when it comes to his game. He will doing the same thing over and over again, it's still a team's game and you need to involve others, as shit as you think they are
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Bingo. I found it comical how he firmly refuses to pass the ball to Herrera. To be fair Herrera is a dead end, you pass it to him and the ball ends up at your keepers feet. Useless
 
30m€/season after taxes sounds pretty good
Jeez modern football is just completely crazy. I can not by any means relate to such numbers anymore. It's insane.
 
Oranges038 said:
Nike have pulled the plug. Obviously, it's one person's word against anothers. Apparently he's been dropped for not cooperating in the investigation. He says it was commercial reasons.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/nike-split-with-neymar-amid-sexual-assault-probe-11622159616
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Either way it's not a great look for him. He's either guilty, or he's not the name he once was and commercially it's not working out for Nike. I kind of doubt the latter as he would have to be a massive flop for them to feel the need to terminate early.

Puma will be worried too i bet.
 
And Qatar / countless murders have funded his 30 mil contract for the next 5 years. Football is fecked.
 
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