The natural successor: Has Neymar blown it?

KirkDuyt said:
Robben is a far better dribbler. Bit of a weird opener. Though I suppose that would start the debate of what good dribbling consists of. Some people equate Robinho doing 12 stepovers in a row as the pinnacle of dribbling. Int hat case, yes Neymar is a better dribbler. However, take your point that Robben can only cut inside, why do you think that even though any fullback that ever faced him would probably hammer into his brain, that he will cut inside, was left staring at the ball flying into the net. That's because Robben is an amazing dribbler and even knowing what he will do, you wont see it coming. Other than that, saying Robben can only cut inside is selling him short massively.

I don't think Robben is a better player than Neymar, I'd say they're in a similar league with Neymar edging it slightly. Truly world class, but not as good as Messi and Ronaldo. They're probably also 2 of the most disliked top players of all time.

Oh, and the poor man's Robben was a joke initially, but saying Neymar is not massively better than Robben is not trolling if you ask me. Saying he has worse hair than Robben, maybe..
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There's no player in history who's a far better dribbler than Neymar. He's practically undefendable in one on one situations and regularly takes on 3-4 players at once. He maybe has some shortcomings in regards to upper body strength, balance, etc. but those are points of criticism of a very high level. He's much more than doing some stepovers. His anticipation, awareness, control etc. are beyond world class and most importantly he dribbles with purpose unlike players like Denilson, Ben Arfa, etc.

The same is true for Robben who's much more "straight forward" in his style. To me a bit closer to Messi stylistically. He also relies primarily on body feints and is quite similar in how he attempts to catch the defender on the wrong foot and utilize him losing his balance a bit to open up small lanes for his shots, passes or dribbles. Neymar's dribbles being fancier than Robben's makes them neither better nor worse. Resultwise they're pretty close with Neymar edging it, IMO.

Both exceptional players, mind.
 
Zehner said:
There's no player in history who's a far better dribbler than Neymar. He's practically undefendable in one on one situations and regularly takes on 3-4 players at once. He maybe has some shortcomings in regards to upper body strength, balance, etc. but those are points of criticism of a very high level. He's much more than doing some stepovers. His anticipation, awareness, control etc. are beyond world class and most importantly he dribbles with purpose unlike players like Denilson, Ben Arfa, etc.

The same is true for Robben who's much more "straight forward" in his style. To me a bit closer to Messi stylistically. He also relies primarily on body feints and is quite similar in how he attempts to catch the defender on the wrong foot and utilize him losing his balance a bit to open up small lanes for his shots, passes or dribbles. Neymar's dribbles being fancier than Robben's makes them neither better nor worse. Resultwise they're pretty close with Neymar edging it, IMO.

Both exceptional players, mind.
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Agreed on the bolded for sure. Dribbling wise, fine I was exagerating, but the "you're trolling" stuff was peeving me. I prefer Robben's sober dribbling style over Neymars fancy style personally and the fact you know what Robben will do, but still fall for it 9 times out of 10 is pure dribbling technique, nothing fancy about it.
 
Neymar is better than Robben, but not by a huge gap.
It's the same gap that we can see between KDB and Pogba, KDB is better than Pogba, but not by huge gap.
 
Wolf1992 said:
Neymar is better than Robben, but not by a huge gap.
It's the same gap that we can see between KDB and Pogba, KDB is better than Pogba, but not by huge gap.
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I honestly don't think KdB is better than Pogba. Put Pogba in City and I think he would be as good if not better than KdB.
 
KirkDuyt said:
Agreed on the bolded for sure. Dribbling wise, fine I was exagerating, but the "you're trolling" stuff was peeving me. I prefer Robben's sober dribbling style over Neymars fancy style personally and the fact you know what Robben will do, but still fall for it 9 times out of 10 is pure dribbling technique, nothing fancy about it.
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I get that, I also thought it was discrediting Robben and I'm a huge, huge fan of Neymar. I'm really torn between the two and tend towards Neymar but Robben was so good that at times he made me enjoy Bayern wins and that's about the most difficult thing a footballer can accomplish.
 
I’d take Neymar over Robben but Robben was incredible.

gibers said:
I honestly don't think KdB is better than Pogba. Put Pogba in City and I think he would be as good if not better than KdB.
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To once again take the thread off topic, I’d have to disagree. I think if you look at their body of work from their time in England, KdB stands ahead comfortably imo.
Pogba is brilliant and gets judged more harshly than his peers, and of the question was solely about talent I’d probably agree, but I think KdB has performed
 
Cascarino said:
I’d take Neymar over Robben but Robben was incredible.



To once again take the thread off topic, I’d have to disagree. I think if you look at their body of work from their time in England, KdB stands ahead comfortably imo.
Pogba is brilliant and gets judged more harshly than his peers, and of the question was solely about talent I’d probably agree, but I think KdB has performed
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Why would you judge Pogba just from his time in England?
 
cyberman said:
Why would you judge Pogba just from his time in England?
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Because when two players are playing in the same league at the same it makes sense to compare them in how they perform. You can go back to his Serie A time if you want, I still think people will rate KdB higher.
 
Cascarino said:
Because when two players are playing in the same league at the same it makes sense to compare them in how they perform. You can go back to his Serie A time if you want, I still think people will rate KdB higher.
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It was 2 different level of teams in England though. I do think we will see what Pogba is made of from now on but its hard to have this debate if the best period of Pogbas career is put to the side. He appeared in a CL, European championship final before he was 24 and won a world cup not long after
 
Cascarino said:
I’d take Neymar over Robben but Robben was incredible.



To once again take the thread off topic, I’d have to disagree. I think if you look at their body of work from their time in England, KdB stands ahead comfortably imo.
Pogba is brilliant and gets judged more harshly than his peers, and of the question was solely about talent I’d probably agree, but I think KdB has performed
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If you put Pogba in a system like a Pep team, Pogba would do as well. Pep would funnel his abilities so that they are limited to the team. Pogba is stronger, more press resistant, as good of a passer, better dribbler, better ball carrier and better finisher.
 
cyberman said:
It was 2 different level of teams in England though. I do think we will see what Pogba is made of from now on but its hard to have this debate if the best period of Pogbas career is put to the side. He appeared in a CL, European championship final before he was 24 and won a world cup not long after
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gibers said:
If you put Pogba in a system like a Pep team, Pogba would do as well. Pep would funnel his abilities so that they are limited to the team. Pogba is stronger, more press resistant, as good of a passer, better dribbler, better ball carrier and better finisher.
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I’ll reply to you both later but I’ll post it in a more relevant thread
 
cyberman said:
It was 2 different level of teams in England though. I do think we will see what Pogba is made of from now on but its hard to have this debate if the best period of Pogbas career is put to the side. He appeared in a CL, European championship final before he was 24 and won a world cup not long after
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The World Cup argument is fine, but Pogba plays for France which is a superior team to Belgium in almost every position in the field except the GK (Courtois > Lloris) and CF (Lukaku > Giroud).
You said that if Pogba played for City he would do better individually, which can be true, but i can say that if KDB played for France he probably would have won a WC by now due to having better CBs, full backs, and defensive midfielder than the ones he has in Belgium.

Thing is we can't make assumptions about a player being better if he plays for other teams.
 
On a sidenote, can he be credited with the fact that he is still delivering high level performances at an age where his Brazilians predecessors were almost done with football at the top? He is definitely still a top 5 or top 3 player atm and looks capable of going on for a few more years.

Off the top of my head:
Kaka
Ronaldo
Ronaldinho
Rivaldo
 
thepolice123 said:
On a sidenote, can he be credited with the fact that he is still delivering high level performances at an age where his Brazilians predecessors were almost done with football at the top? He is definitely still a top 5 or top 3 player atm and looks capable of going on for a few more years.

Off the top of my head:
Kaka
Ronaldo
Ronaldinho
Rivaldo
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Yes for Ronaldinho/Kaka who started to decline at the age of 26/27 for different reasons

Rivaldo/Ronaldo still great until the age of 29/30
 
Ecstatic said:
Yes for Ronaldinho/Kaka who started to decline at the age of 26/27 for different reasons

Rivaldo/Ronaldo still great until the age of 29/30
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Don’t think Rivaldo or Ronaldo was on Neymar’s level at similar age. Maybe for Rivaldo since he did had a great world cup but he was essentially done after 2002.
 
thepolice123 said:
Don’t think Rivaldo or Ronaldo was on Neymar’s level at similar age. Maybe for Rivaldo since he did had a great world cup but he was essentially done after 2002.
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I agree about Rivaldo.Neymar is 27 and Rivaldo won the Ballon d'or at the same age in 2000.

At the age of 27, Ronaldo had very good stats with Real Madrid, better stats than a player like Benzema these days.
 
Ecstatic said:
I agree about Rivaldo.Neymar is 27 and Rivaldo won the Ballon d'or at the same age in 2000.

At the age of 27, Ronaldo had very good stats with Real Madrid, better stats than a player like Benzema these days.
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Neymar is 29.
 
Ecstatic said:
I agree about Rivaldo.Neymar is 27 and Rivaldo won the Ballon d'or at the same age in 2000.

At the age of 27, Ronaldo had very good stats with Real Madrid, better stats than a player like Benzema these days.
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Neymar is 30 in February.

He will be remembered as a very good player but definitely not one of the greats. Main reason is that his character ain’t very likeable (compared with R10, R9 and other great Brazilians) and more importantly he is playing in a league with very little prestige and a club that not very relevant historically.
 
thepolice123 said:
On a sidenote, can he be credited with the fact that he is still delivering high level performances at an age where his Brazilians predecessors were almost done with football at the top? He is definitely still a top 5 or top 3 player atm and looks capable of going on for a few more years.

Off the top of my head:
Kaka
Ronaldo
Ronaldinho
Rivaldo
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Agree Neymar is among top 5 at the moment. Historically he is in the same group as the Brazilians you mention, except Kaka - who belongs to a lower tier.

First tier (historic): Example Maradona, Pele, Messi, Ronaldo.

I’m not sure if Ronaldo belongs to top-5 atm. I think Messi still is up there.

Top-5 atm: Mbappe, Neymar, Lewandowski, Messi and ?.
 
thepolice123 said:
Don’t think Rivaldo or Ronaldo was on Neymar’s level at similar age. Maybe for Rivaldo since he did had a great world cup but he was essentially done after 2002.
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Yeah Rivaldo was still at his peak level at Neymar’s current age. At 29 he had a 36-goal campaign for a relatively weak Barcelona in a stacked La Liga, capped by that hat-trick against Valencia on the final day. That’s a level or two above where Neymar currently is, particularly in the ability to decide the highest stakes games. And while he declined post 30-31, he still spent the next two years winning a World Cup and Champions League, central to the former and contributing (13 CL games) to the latter.

If Neymar is still at the top of his game in a couple of years’ time then I think the point stands.
 
This argument that Neymar is a better passer than Cristiano is nonsense. Cristiano is just as good as Neymar at passing.

 
Gio said:
Yeah Rivaldo was still at his peak level at Neymar’s current age. At 29 he had a 36-goal campaign for a relatively weak Barcelona in a stacked La Liga, capped by that hat-trick against Valencia on the final day. That’s a level or two above where Neymar currently is, particularly in the ability to decide the highest stakes games. And while he declined post 30-31, he still spent the next two years winning a World Cup and Champions League, central to the former and contributing (13 CL games) to the latter.

If Neymar is still at the top of his game in a couple of years’ time then I think the point stands.
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Rivaldo was very poor at Milan though. He was so poor that they terminated his contract midway and replaced him with Kaka.
 
Gio said:
Yeah Rivaldo was still at his peak level at Neymar’s current age. At 29 he had a 36-goal campaign for a relatively weak Barcelona in a stacked La Liga, capped by that hat-trick against Valencia on the final day. That’s a level or two above where Neymar currently is, particularly in the ability to decide the highest stakes games. And while he declined post 30-31, he still spent the next two years winning a World Cup and Champions League, central to the former and contributing (13 CL games) to the latter.

If Neymar is still at the top of his game in a couple of years’ time then I think the point stands.
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I don't think Rivaldo even in his prime was a level or two above Neymar. Rivaldo was great, no doubt, but Neymar is better.
 
VorZakone said:
This argument that Neymar is a better passer than Cristiano is nonsense. Cristiano is just as good as Neymar at passing.

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Really?

You make it sound like it's far-fetched.

I think Neymar is clearly better than Ronaldo at passing.
 
Hes not 'blown it' no more so than Mbbape, Haaland, Foden or anyone else who comes through for the next 50 years will have blown it. Take out Ronaldo and Messi from this era and suddenly we have tonnes of players who are the best of their generation. Iniesta, Rooney, RVP, KDB, Salah, Mane, Kane, Dani Alves, Benezema the list is crazy. We have to eventually adjust to a time where we recalibrate the 'best player in the World'. At the moment they are being compared with freaks and none of them have the talent to ever reach that level, and at the moment that hurts their career. Neymar was born at the wrong time (like Rooney and the rest), they would have been the 'best in other times, or at least closer to it. Eventually the best player will lower in expectation a few years after Messi and Ronaldo retire.

I think Neymar has had a fine career (outside of his move to PSG) and if we take Messi and Ronaldo out of the equation he belongs amongst the best of his era. So, club choice aside, he fulfilled his potential which was never anywhere near the other 2 aliens.
 
Polar said:
I’m not sure if Ronaldo belongs to top-5 atm. I think Messi still is up there.
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You think Messi is still up there?

You're joking right. He is comfortably up there. No player in the world has been better than Messi in 2021 - the new Ballon D'Or calendar year.

Most goals+assists (top 5 league players) in year 2021 (club+country)

35 - Messi (26+9)

29 - Lewandowski (26+3)

26 - Gerard Moreno (19+7)

26 - Haaland (20+6)

26 - Mbappe (23+3)

He is the most lethal goalscorer and playmaker at the same time. No one else does that.
 
DaGOAT said:
You think Messi is still up there?

You're joking right. He is comfortably up there. No player in the world has been better than Messi in 2021 - the new Ballon D'Or calendar year.
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And it seems like you agree.

Smoked something or is Messi a touchy topic for you :D

You have a problem if you get upset with formulations which doesn’t confirm all people on earth have the same (subjective) opinion as you and me.
 
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Polar said:
And it seems like you agree.

Smoked something or is Messi is touchy topic for you :D

You have a problem if you get upset by with formulations which doesn’t confirm all people on earth have the same (subjective) opinion as you and me.
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No? Just seems like you aren’t looking at the statistics and performances if you only “think”.
Messi has the best statistical output in 2021. Very simple.
 
DaGOAT said:
No? Just seems like you aren’t looking at the statistics and performances if you only “think”.
Messi has the best statistical output in 2021. Very simple.
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:lol: way to prove him wrong
 
A couple of decent plays, but not much of substance.

Clock is ticking, 45 minutes left to do something.
 
He has such a weak mentality. It's really holding him back in the later stages of the competition. Stop whinging and focus on football.
 
Fantastic player but shouldnt be playing in PSG, in my opinion. Has to do so much by himself because most of his teammates besides Mbappe, Di Maria and maybe Verratti just isnt good enough.
 
Did he agree to that extension?

Once Mbappe bails, I wonder if he'll follow suit or just be happy collecting loads of $$$.
 
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