No they did have a good team I’m not going to pretend. But the fans didn’t like the football. The players didn’t like the football either. It just is what it is. They guy doesn’t play good football. Neither did Fabio Capello but he was a good manager too.
The Mourinho Thread: Should he stay or go? | Sacked
- Thread starter Livewire1974
- Start date
- Status
No they did have a good team I’m not going to pretend. But the fans didn’t like the football. The players didn’t like the football either. It just is what it is. They guy doesn’t play good football. Neither did Fabio Capello but he was a good manager too.
You keep saying it's not true, but what those articles clearly state (and what I thought was pretty common knowledge) was that a few years ago City adopted a style of play that was the same throughout the whole club - just like at Barca. They wanted all the sides throughout the club to play a similar possession based approach. Now I appreciate that not all the managers may have implemented that perfectly, but that was the plan throughout the club. Some ex-Barca player describes it in the BBC article:
"I was with Barcelona for eight years, and what the first team does is the same as what the junior teams do," he said.
"The dynamics between the players are the same, the style of play is the same, and the movement of your team-mates is the same, so as you go through the age groups it's much easier.
"Above everything, it's about learning your position, having a very clear understanding of the concepts of the game and how to control your passes and possession of the ball. From a young age that's what you learn."
It is this kind of approach that City are attempting to follow, and the key element of their youth strategy is a single-minded focus on developing technical skills at a young age
Do you reckon they were implementing all of that at junior levels but just letting the first team crack on without making any attempt to adopt the very philosophy that they had brought the Barca guys in to establish?
If you want anymore evidence then look at possession stats on a season-by-season basis. In 09/10 and 10/11 City were 5th in possession stats. Then in 11/12, 12/13 and 13/14 they were second only to Arsenal, and then since then they've been top every year barring an aberration in 15/16 when Pellegrini basically knew he was a dead man walking from halfway through the season. That feels like something changed within the club to me - them becoming much more adept at possession based football predates Guardiola by 4 years.
But feel free to stick your fingers in your ears if you want.
We did.
We were the 2nd biggest spenders behind MCFC and last season we finished 2nd, behind them.
And that's why I want an ex player managing United - they will know united inside out from top to bottom the same way Barcelona & City were made for Pep.
eh? Was Pep an ex City player???
No but City pre-planned for Pep. United don't need pre-planning as much since we have a history of how football should be played, the youth system, the coaching system there currently - all that are linked to ex players.
I think the criteria for the United manager's job should just be simply the candidate is the best man for the job, regardless of his history or background.
Any evidence of planning would be nice to be honest. But the flip side of that is that when you make a decision to appoint somebody, and they deliver pretty much as expected, then you should back them and give them whatever tools they need to succeed.
What bothers me the most is United fans siding with Pep when he chose to go to the other side, it's all well and such saying you'd prefer Pep and that he is better, but him Joining a rival should have at least made some of you less vocal or your ''Admirance of him'', at least not at the expense of your own manager, smh.
Again I disagree and if cold hard facts can't prove that then no romanticising ever will.
Mourinho's Madrid were a phenomenal attacking team. Mourinho's Chelsea were the strongest defensive team. Mourinho's Inter and Porto were a team that outperformed the sum of their parts admirably... I'd also put last season's United in that latter category too. On paper we weren't the second best team, but we finished comfortably second.
All I ask of a manager is to get us above where our squad deserves to be. I think at the moment most people will even optimistically agree we're behind City who've spent £500m on top of a £500m team but probably on a par with Chelsea and Liverpool (a bit above Spurs) who've spent more wisely whilst Van Gaal was pissing away tens of millions.
Therefore what I expect of Mourinho is... A cup win, a second place finish and a QF Champions League finish which I think would represent progress. This is not because I'm engaging in Moyes levels of reduced expectation, but merely because that's the reality of our squad. If we'd signed Alderweireld I'd have expected more and if we'd signed him and a great right winger I'd be expecting the league.
However I think realism is necessary. Mourinho isn't going to be the attacking manager he was with the players he has available. Likewise United won't win 100 points with this team as he did with his Madrid team.
Fergie was never going to play '08 football with his '12 squad... He won with "zombie football" instead.
Last edited:
Let this sink a bit.
For the next manager to be better than the manager we sack he should produce above 81 pts. Getting 2 cups in 2 years. Playing beautiful football. Playing youth.
For the next manager to be better than the manager we sack he should produce above 81 pts. Getting 2 cups in 2 years. Playing beautiful football. Playing youth.
That's incredibly selective. The two trophies were the League cup and Europa. He finished 6th in his first season and we were 19 points (and trophyless) behind city last year. We haven't mounted a serious title challenge under him nor made it past the last 16 in the CL and they're the trophies that matter for a club like us.
There isn't a manger on earth winning the CL with this squad.
He did won it though. The next manager should get the same. 2 cups is still better than no cup. Unless the next manager win the league then I'd say it's an improvement
I don't think that's true but even if it was, he's signed 9 of the players in the current squad (and handed new contracts to others), so it's at the very least partly his fault.
He does play good football and the football at Madrid was breathtaking at times in counter attacking terms particularly.
What does that have to do with them signing:
Mangela
Fernando
Jovetic
Dzeko
Bony
Sagna
Negrado
Jesus Neves
Demichilis
I could go on. Again your points sound great especially with Pep being successful and all. But with this happening all under the new blueprint explain to me where these players fit in with ‘possession’ football? Like I said before it’s just an inferstructure designed so eventually they don’t have to rely on spending bucket loads to remain at the top. Hell look at Barcelona why wouldn’t they copy it. But remember Barcelona wasn’t invented by Pep which is why it doesn’t require him to keep functioning. Therefore to wrap this all up, all this backroom building has nothing to do with Mourinho failing to get us a title. That’s on Mourinho.
I'm sure some fans and some players liked the football.
The football Real played in their title winning season under Jose was amazing. People are trying to rewrite history.
Why are you getting so hung up on personnel?? Just cos you can produce a list of a few players (that is a small proportion of who City have signed over the last 6 years or so) that might not be 'classic' possession footballers it means the square root of bugger all. Some of them are tenuous in the extreme anyway - I mean, Sagna? A full-back from Arsenal? Are you saying that he was unable to play possession football? Jesus Neves (presume you mean Navas) - a diminutive and skillfull Spanish winger: are you saying that he is unable to play possession football?
Since you're so fond of lists here's another one for you:
Jan Kirchkoff
Mehdi Benatia
Zlatan Ibrahimovic
Martin Caceres
Dymytro Chygrynskiy
Henrique
Ibrahim Afellay
Does that list of players scream out 'TIKA TAKA' to you? No? Well they were all signed by Pep Guardiola. Just cos you play a certain way doesn't mean to say that every player you sign needs to be a 5' 2" Iniesta clone.
And with regard to your last sentence - yes, of course it's on Mourinho that he has failed to win a title with us yet. The thing is though, most people with half a brain (even some of his worst detractors on this thread) have also admitted that even Pep wouldn't have won a title with us yet. So you seem to be holding him to standards that literally nobody could achieve.
Indeed.
When he was heading home that night, he'd have been disappointed by the loss, but he'd also have been brimming with confidence, simply because the fans gave him their vote of support.
I think that was why in the coming games, he kept mentioning and made a fuss of the fans. That really did mean a lot to him.
Up to that point, everything....and I mean everything, was negative.
There are many, however, I do wonder if we brought in someone like Poch, how long that mentality would last.
My guess is that after 2 years of no trophies and not even coming close, those same people would ask that Poch be sacked and a serial winner be employed.
Myself, I actually like the winning part of sport. I actually think that that is the most important part of sport.
I've said this many times.
Pep chose to go to our rivals instead of us. Nobody held him at gunpoint.
Similarly, Jose fought to get himself the MUFC job.
I'm much happier supporting a player or manager who genuinely wants to be at MUFC, rather than another club. I think this is one of the reasons why a lot of MUFC supporters are losing patience with Pogba, even though he is a fantastic player.
I would take one season of shite football and a league title or CL at the end of it over 10 years of attractive football with nothing to show for it (a la Arsenal). In fact I'd snap your hand off.
Not that our football is anywhere near as bad as people would have you think anyway...
Not that our football is anywhere near as bad as people would have you think anyway...
Our football has clearly been improving and the coaching staff and players have said that they are working on it. You can't make wholesale changes to your style of play overnight, if Mourinho works with McKenna and Carrick to play a more attacking style then he'll get the backing of most fans. The only ones that won't back him are those that have a personal agenda with him and are emotionally clouded.
That Pep Guardiola just can't stop breaking records can he? Last night he became the first manager in English football to lose 4 consecutive Champions League matches. Amazing consistency!
True fans would only notice this, like those who stayed after that Tottenham defeat.
At this point the bad football we're playing is just pure sensationalism.
I seriously think Mou has worked things out with Pogba.
Yeah i can feel that a lot is going on behind the scenes in training. Mourinho turns up to McKenna or Carrick during goal celebration suggesting that something they worked upon came good. Refreshing to see. Hopefully we build on from here
People who write exams with a neat handwriting only to end up failing them.
It is of course perfectly possible to have success and play beautiful football, depending on your definition of beautiful football.
However, our current squad of players are not at that level yet. To be able to achieve this you require almost robotic consistency with all players delivering 8/10 performances week in week out. That is what Jose had in his first time at Chelsea and that is why he likes players like Matic and Fellani.
He had those at Chelsea with Terry, Lampard and Cole. He then added a few others to get the balance right.
He knows how to do it. The question is whether he will again.
My quote is specifically aimed at those who want beautiful football over success. People here are wanting to replace Mourinho, a treble winning manager with someone like Poch.
It is easy to see the progress. He is trying. Better back him up.
The whole debate of success over good football is total fecking nonsense. Pretty much every team that wins the league and CL plays good football.
They were playing brilliant football before he got there, and continued while he was there apart from the classico's that is. Nothing in the rest of his coaching history suggests He'll build a 90 goal league campaign team.
Have you considered that the debate is at a deeper level than you?
The question of goals scored under Jose guidance is a well made point on both sides those who recognise Jose decent record with Madrid and those that say he has never built a team outside of Spain that has scored more than 75 league goals.
Whilst this is true with both his Inter and Chelsea sides who won three domestic leagues each, he has always been top or second in the spending league too and here lies the problem. Had City had Sheikh Mansour's money in 2005, we may have seen Jose implode during his first stint in the PL?
I'm really not sure how the season will unwind, but I can't remember too many occasions after only 5 games, even under Moyes when United were 40-1 to win the Pl!
The bookies and every other pundits in football think we will be lucky to make the Top 4!
Jose needs a declining Sanchez, Clumsy Lukaku, Sulking Martial, Unhappy Pogba, Careless and carefree Rashford to all start firing with double figures in the PL to get us anywhere near 90PL goals or score 82 more in 33 games at an average of 2.48 goals per game.
If he manages to do that he will rightly be recognised as the Second best Manager of all time!
Whilst this is true with both his Inter and Chelsea sides who won three domestic leagues each, he has always been top or second in the spending league too and here lies the problem. Had City had Sheikh Mansour's money in 2005, we may have seen Jose implode during his first stint in the PL?
I'm really not sure how the season will unwind, but I can't remember too many occasions after only 5 games, even under Moyes when United were 40-1 to win the Pl!
The bookies and every other pundits in football think we will be lucky to make the Top 4!
Jose needs a declining Sanchez, Clumsy Lukaku, Sulking Martial, Unhappy Pogba, Careless and carefree Rashford to all start firing with double figures in the PL to get us anywhere near 90PL goals or score 82 more in 33 games at an average of 2.48 goals per game.
If he manages to do that he will rightly be recognised as the Second best Manager of all time!
You don't get a trophy for goals scored anyway do you?
- Status