The Mourinho Thread: Should he stay or go? | Sacked

[endless_wheelies]

Been waiting for someone to answer this simple question.
Goes to the those who think Mou would have a similar impact as Pep had he taken over at City. Really?
You think Aguero and Jesus would be leading strikers for a Jose Man City?! they'd probably be shifted to the left wing with Wilfred Bony as striker.
You think Silva and debruyne will play in a mid 3 with Gundugan holding? LoL!!
He'd probably keep Hart though, big characters et al.
Probably see Matic, Perisic and Lukaku instead of Gundugan, Sane, Bernardo Silva and Jesus. ha!

Probably no-one answered it as it's a stupid question and for that reason captured only your attention.
Would Mourinho try Firmino as a striker? The answer is who knows, but as a striker Firmino plays a similar hold up role to the one Mourinho has Fellaini play when up front on occasion, only Firmino has with more pace and creativity. Therefore it's hardly beyond the realms of possibility that he would try Firmino up front.

As for your guff about how Mourinho would have Manchester City play, he would obviously play his own style. Probably similar to the one that ran Guardiola out of town in 2011/2012.

 

[LolYo]

We shouldnt even be mentioning Fergie for two reasons.
1. He's one of a kind.
2. Football changes so fast.

Mourinho should be compared to his contemporaries. In terms of his prime, that is Fergie but as outdated as Mourinho is, he is still a manager.
So lets compare him to his contemporaries.
City and Liverpool have left us in the dust. Those two teams are a different level now cuz they both did a phenomenal coaching hire and Chelsea looks so have done the same with Sarri. Its taken them 3 weeks to notice improvements and Sarris blueprint. After 3 years we are looking worse. We all agree those three teams are better right now, very few will argue it. Pochettino at Tottenham? Has them playing really well. They destroyed us recently.
If Emery rejuvenates Arsenal, then there's no more place to hide in our bubble, we will need to face hard facts about the Mourinho's impact here which has been terribly detrimental.

We are waiting it out, it seems. I think our roster is as good as City's or Liverpool's.
There's no reason why KDB should be performing better than Pogba for example yet he's been a much better player despite being less talented. Shouldnt be happening.

Personally, Im not just Mourinho out. Im Mourinho out to the extent that he is destroying this team. I think itseven worse than most imagine and after the Sevilla debacle I thought even the most patient were going to call for him to get fired. Weird he survived that.
Good thing though? Silver lining is that our team is amazing and under good management our team is up there with any team in the world, especially our attack.
As talented as City and Liverpool are, Pogba-Lukaku-Rashford-Martial-Sanchez can hang in there with any attacking line up in the world, no question.

 

[tomaldinho1]

You originally wrote, and I quote 'again hard to blame Mou for that because it was a swap and also universally wanted by all fans'.

My point is that the fact it was a swap deal rather than a straight-cash signing doesn't change anything. It still cost money.

OK - on that part. You can't compare Sanchez to a Lukaku or Pogba signing though. My point there is if we'd shelled out £55m (City's failed valuation as an example) I'd blame Mou a lot more for that transfer. But swapping an underperforming Mkhi (Mkhi being something you can defintiely criticise Mou for) seemed an excellent proposition and is one that I feel the fault lies in the player's camp rather than the managers.

 

[RedSky]

OK - on that part. You can't compare Sanchez to a Lukaku or Pogba signing though. My point there is if we'd shelled out £55m (City's failed valuation as an example) I'd blame Mou a lot more for that transfer. But swapping an underperforming Mkhi (Mkhi being something you can defintiely criticise Mou for) seemed an excellent proposition and is one that I feel the fault lies in the player's camp rather than the managers.

How is it Sanchez' fault? I'm intrigued?

 

[Rusholme Ruffian]

Probably no-one answered it as it's a stupid question and for that reason captured only your attention.
Would Mourinho try Firmino as a striker? The answer is who knows, but as a striker Firmino plays a similar hold up role to the one Mourinho has Fellaini play when up front on occasion, only Firmino has with more pace and creativity. Therefore it's hardly beyond the realms of possibility that he would try Firmino up front.

As for your guff about how Mourinho would have Manchester City play, he would obviously play his own style. Probably similar to the one that ran Guardiola out of town in 2011/2012.

Spot on.

A more interesting question is to ask how would Pep have done at United had he taken over the squad that Mourinho did and had £150 million less to spend on players than he has had at City.

 

[Rusholme Ruffian]

Personally, Im not just Mourinho out. Im Mourinho out to the extent that he is destroying this team. I think itseven worse than most imagine and after the Sevilla debacle I thought even the most patient were going to call for him to get fired. Weird he survived that.

Good grief - fired for getting knocked out of the Champions League?!

 

[LolYo]

Spot on.

A more interesting question is to ask how would Pep have done at United had he taken over the squad that Mourinho did and had £150 million less to spend on players than he has had at City.

You dont want me to answer that cuz its not gonna be what you want to hear...
But Pep wouldnt run Rashford and Martial into the ground and hinder their progress.
Wouldnt have Pogba underperforming. Alexis and Lukaku, too.

Mourinho had talented players before and he made them look useless. KDB and Salah come to mind obviously.

Dont...dont compare Mourinho to Guardiola.

 

[LolYo]

Good grief - fired for getting knocked out of the Champions League?!

Ummm yeah! We are a much bigger and much more expensive club than Sevilla.
Remember how we played? We played them as if we are a division 3 team and they're Manchester United.

 

[RedSky]

Spot on.

A more interesting question is to ask how would Pep have done at United had he taken over the squad that Mourinho did and had £150 million less to spend on players than he has had at City.

It's an impossible question to answer as we have no idea who he would have signed and we don't know who City would have got either. Nor do we know if Pep would have got more money from the Glazers, too many variables.

 

[Rusholme Ruffian]

You dont want me to answer that cuz its not gonna be what you want to hear...
But Pep wouldnt run Rashford and Martial into the ground and hinder their progress.
Wouldnt have Pogba underperforming. Alexis and Lukaku, too.

Mourinho had talented players before and he made them look useless. KDB and Salah come to mind obviously.

Dont...dont compare Mourinho to Guardiola.

You're right, I don't want to hear specifics which are just the workings of your fevered imagination.

Ummm yeah! We are a much bigger and much more expensive club than Sevilla.
Remember how we played? We played them as if we are a division 3 team and they're Manchester United.

So every time a smaller club knocks a larger one out of a cup competition the manager should be sacked?

Actually, don't bother replying as I get the impression that you might be about 12 years old - which is totally cool btw! LolYo

 

[Rusholme Ruffian]

It's an impossible question to answer as we have no idea who he would have signed and we don't know who City would have got either. Nor do we know if Pep would have got more money from the Glazers, too many variables.

I agree - but what's your gut feeling though? Would he have won the league? Would he have won by a clear 19 points?

 

[LolYo]

It's an impossible question to answer as we have no idea who he would have signed and we don't know who City would have got either. Nor do we know if Pep would have got more money from the Glazers, too many variables.

How is it impossible to answer if its its common knowledge that Pep is an offensive genius while Mourinho struggles and often holds players back?
We already had Martial and Rashford even before Mourinho arrived.
Regardless of who Guardiola would have signed, anyone that thinks Rashford and Martial would have fallen as hard under Guardiola is flat out dishonest.

 

[LolYo]

You're right, I don't want to hear specifics which are just the workings of your fevered imagination.



So every time a smaller club knocks a larger one out of a cup competition the manager should be sacked?

Actually, don't bother replying as I get the impression that you might be about 12 years old - which is totally cool btw! LolYo

Not getting into personal stuff.
Sevilla thing was embarrasing yeah. So was Celta the year before but we lucked out.
It was a clear sign of no progress being made and the manager was solely responsible and it was even more obvious than per usual which is also obvious enough as it is.

 

[RedSky]

I agree - but what's your gut feeling though? Would he have won the league? Would he have won by a clear 19 points?

No he wouldnt have won the league with us yet. I do think he'd have us playing better than we are this season though and we'd be pushing for the league this year. Also dont think City would be doing s well as they are right now.

@LolYo - Jesus is struggling right now at City, it's not as clear cut as you think with Rashford and Martial.

 

[The holy trinity 68]

Mourinho had talented players before and he made them look useless. KDB and Salah come to mind obviously.

Dont...dont compare Mourinho to Guardiola.

Stop spouting generic shit that is always said about Mourinho. Salah and KDB had the potential back then but they were average players. No where near the level they are at now.

Not getting into personal stuff.
Sevilla thing was embarrasing yeah. So was Celta the year before but we lucked out.
It was a clear sign of no progress being made and the manager was solely responsible and it was even more obvious than per usual which is also obvious enough as it is.

United finished 2nd last season. Clearly no progress.

 

[Rusholme Ruffian]

No he wouldnt have won the league with us yet. I do think he'd have us playing better than we are this season though and we'd be pushing for the league this year. Also dont think City would be doing s well as they are right now.

Yep, that's pretty much what I reckon too. All of which means (and obvs this is just my speculation) that the gap between the performances of Mourinho and Guardiola since starting their current jobs is not as massive as some would have us believe.

 

[Hound Dog]

@Hound Dog

Since we are comparing our team to others - I ask you a simple question because I want to know your opinion.

If we had Roberto firmimho - would we ever utilise him as a False 9?

No, I don't think so.

 

[Kapardin]

I voted to give him time and so far, a tiny bit of positivity has been injected in terms of better attacking performances, or atleast an effort in that direction. Important thing is to continue this and not rip it all up after one more defeat.

Even more important is our CL campaign. This is his third season and I expect us to reach QF unless we have the misfortune of drawing Real/Bayern/Barca/PSG in the Ro16 (and even there, we better give a good fight before bowing out atleast). If we see anything even remotely similar to Sevilla again, I'll lose my faith in him.

 

[Amir]

OK - on that part. You can't compare Sanchez to a Lukaku or Pogba signing though. My point there is if we'd shelled out £55m (City's failed valuation as an example) I'd blame Mou a lot more for that transfer. But swapping an underperforming Mkhi (Mkhi being something you can defintiely criticise Mou for) seemed an excellent proposition and is one that I feel the fault lies in the player's camp rather than the managers.

I agree that on paper it was a really good deal. Why it hasn't worked out so far, I don't know. Looking at the fact none of our attacking talents look as good as they should be, I can't exonerate Mourinho on any of them individually.

 

[andycolegangstainnit]

I think we should give him until the end of the season and see where we are then.

 

[JohnnyKills]

I think we should give him until the end of the season and see where we are then.

Would be very surprising if we kept him. The fact Woodward won't sign the players he wants is a pretty good clue they're already looking elsewhere. If we don't win the PL or CL I can see both sides shaking hands and walking away.

 

[sugar_kane]

Would be very surprising if we kept him. The fact Woodward won't sign the players he wants is a pretty good clue they're already looking elsewhere. If we don't win the PL or CL I can see both sides shaking hands and walking away.

Personally I can see it more likely Mourinho leaves of his own accord if he actually wins one of those trophies. He'll feel as though he has redeemed himself on the biggest stage and won't want to risk another high profile meltdown season. He also won't necessarily want to keep working for a CEO who has made it fairly plain that he doesn't have his back.

The scenario where I see Mourinho staying is if we come really close to winning one of those and are playing entertaining football ie. showing clear progress with a platform to keep building on. Otherwise he's a goner I reckon.

 

[#07]

Still loved in Inter despite the media claiming he leaves every club under a cloud.

 

[Andersons Dietician]

It really isn't.

Must also then be used for the conspiracy theorists who claim the out part is as high because it’s rival fans.

 

[Hound Dog]

Still loved in Inter despite the media claiming he leaves every club under a cloud.

I wonder if perception of his recent years would have been different had Real won that shootout against Bayern.

FWIW I think it was an incredible achievement to win the title from what was arguably a once in a lifetime Barcelona side.

 

[ZAGREB RED]

I think one of the most worrying aspects of the current set up is that Mourinho doesn't get the best out of too many players (putting it mildly in some cases) and as a team, the whole is generally less than the sum of the parts.

 

[68Guns]

It's quite clear that mourinho cannot improve a player. has rubbish scouts looking for players with promise, panic buys and is NOT the man for the job at United.
He was never first choice or second choice. Bobby Charlton hates him, SAF loathes him and us the fans can't believe how shit he is.
He's a shadow of what he was at Chelski, past his sell by date and so out of touch with the modern game and tactics in England it's laughable.
Jose out ASAP

 

[Ramshock]

That Pochettino is looking good..boy oh boy.

 

[Major]

Spot on.

A more interesting question is to ask how would Pep have done at United had he taken over the squad that Mourinho did and had £150 million less to spend on players than he has had at City.

Don't know the full extent of United's squad when Mou took over, but I'm pretty sure Pep would get the most out of players like Martial, Rasford, Shaw, Herrera, Rojo and even lingard ( see sterling and Pedro at Barca).
I also 100% certain he won't buy players like Lukaku, Bailly, Matic. Fellaini would be gone in his first training session.

Bottom line is Pep has always been known to prefer technical ability to physical attributes. Its not a vice versa situation with Mou but Jose's team has always been known for their rugged physical play.
United would definitely be playing a more attractive brand of football under Pep which might probably earn him much more support from Woodward to fund his moves.

 

[Aloysius's Back 3]

Spot on.

A more interesting question is to ask how would Pep have done at United had he taken over the squad that Mourinho did and had £150 million less to spend on players than he has had at City.

If Jose would have went to City - he would have kept a lot of these players to date- Toure, Fernando, Nolito, Wilfred Bony. He would have used zabaleta until he was worn out.

He would have bought Morata or Lukaku, Perisic or willian, Matic. He would use one of Sane or Sterling and never both at once. Likewise one of de bryune or David silva would be on the bench. Aguer0 would be turned in to an inside forward or be in the subs because he has never used a striker like him upfront - only out wide.

Money is not the issue - Pep here with 150mil less would be trying to play technical football whilst Jose at City would have they playing like Builders. Man City have the better manager and the better budget - they therefore play wonderful football with the ability to get results & break some records on the way.

 

[Rusholme Ruffian]

If Jose would have went to City - he would have kept a lot of these players to date- Toure, Fernando, Nolito, Wilfred Bony. He would have used zabaleta until he was worn out.

He would have bought Morata or Lukaku, Perisic or willian, Matic. He would use one of Sane or Sterling and never both at once. Likewise one of de bryune or David silva would be on the bench. Aguer0 would be turned in to an inside forward or be in the subs because he has never used a striker like him upfront - only out wide.

Money is not the issue - Pep here with 150mil less would be trying to play technical football whilst Jose at City would have they playing like Builders. Man City have the better manager and the better budget - they therefore play wonderful football with the ability to get results & break some records on the way.

Stopped reading at 'would have kept Nolito'.

 

[el3mel]

Stopped reading at 'would have kept Nolito'.

But ..but .. Mourinho would have kept Nolito, nevermind that Pep was actually the one who brought him to City from the start.

 

[Womp]

If Jose would have went to City - he would have kept a lot of these players to date- Toure, Fernando, Nolito, Wilfred Bony. He would have used zabaleta until he was worn out.

He would have bought Morata or Lukaku, Perisic or willian, Matic. He would use one of Sane or Sterling and never both at once. Likewise one of de bryune or David silva would be on the bench. Aguer0 would be turned in to an inside forward or be in the subs because he has never used a striker like him upfront - only out wide.

Money is not the issue - Pep here with 150mil less would be trying to play technical football whilst Jose at City would have they playing like Builders. Man City have the better manager and the better budget - they therefore play wonderful football with the ability to get results & break some records on the way.

Few things: Aguero wasn't preferred by Pep either and was benched, he only forced his way into the team due to the fact that he's too fecking good not to be playing. Nolito was bought by Pep, so that point is fecking ridiculous. He would only use one of Sane and Sterling, something Pep is seemingly also doing this season due to Mendy being back.

 

[Aloysius's Back 3]

Stopped reading at 'would have kept Nolito'.

Right I got the that one wrong.

Bony being Jose's second option to Lukaku?

But ..but .. Mourinho would have kept Nolito, nevermind that Pep was actually the one who brought him to City from the start.

But..but.. sane & Sterling would be wonderful to create things for our infinite target men. Who needs aguero upfront

Jose has historically only had one inverted winger & one direct winger - instantly ruins that city team to bits also considering they would go from playing 3 forwards to 1..but but Jose has infinite money

Unfortunately for you Jose's ideal team & Pep's ideal team - they are miles apart.

 

[BlueHaze]

I can't for the life of me imagine he will be here next season. This season has already started in a terrible way even though that win at watford was a positive sign due to the fact that it showed they are still playing for him. The losses against Brighton and Spurs were disastrous though and with the competetiveness this season there is basically zero room for feck ups. There is nothing I wan't more than for Jose to win something big and shut all the negative people like myself up but I can't ever see that happening but if we do miss out on CL football next year with the squad we have then he should be ashamed of himself and retire from football as a whole (I know that will never happen) No matter what people say I think we have a good enough squad to compete for the title, we should at least comfortably finish top 3. I personally won't be surprised if we finish outside top 4 this year.

 

[Aloysius's Back 3]

Few things: Aguero wasn't preferred by Pep either and was benched, he only forced his way into the team due to the fact that he's too fecking good not to be playing. Nolito was bought by Pep, so that point is fecking ridiculous. He would only use one of Sane and Sterling, something Pep is seemingly also doing this season due to Mendy being back.

He also has mahrez who isn't a direct winger like duff or schrulle or pandev. He is another inverted winger/forward. Pep gave the starting role to Gabriel Jesus - a completely different type of striker to a target man & ultimately got replaced by aguero. None of those would be utilized by Jose. I didn't know about the nolito thing - but toure & matic & fernandinh0 doesn't sound half bad.

Never played 2 Cam's together has he like de bryune & silva.

 

[Womp]

He also has mahrez who isn't a direct winger like duff or schrulle or pandev. He is another inverted winger/forward. Pep gave the starting role to Gabriel Jesus - a completely different type of striker to a target man & ultimately got replaced by aguero. None of those would be utilized by Jose. I didn't know about the nolito thing - but toure & matic & fernandinh0 doesn't sound half bad.

Never played 2 Cam's together has he like de bryune & silva.

He has though: Oscar and Mata, Ozil and Modric, to name a few. Also Mahrez is far more of a direct winger than the options we have. You claim we can only function with direct wingers, yet we don't have a single one in our squad. In fact we had a single link to one in all his time here with Perisic. Lingard is the closest thing we have to a 'winger' on the right. Martial, Rashford and Sanchez aren't wingers who operate on the left either.

Toure and all those other names wouldn't be playing either imo. If there's one thing Jose knows, it's when players are finished, he doesn't give a shit about prestige or past history. Take how easily he phased out Rooney (who I'd put in a similar boat to those players) when he found out he wasn't good enough. He has a preference for experience obviously, but you still need to be up to the task.

Valencia and Young are aging, but they still had (have?) far more fuel left in the tank than Zabaleta etc. did and even still, with the signing of Dalot and the re-emergence of Shaw, it's looking as if they will be slowly phased out.

 

[Aloysius's Back 3]

He has though: Oscar and Mata, Ozil and Modric, to name a few. Also Mahrez is far more of a direct winger than the options we have. You claim we can only function with direct wingers, yet we don't have a single one in our squad. In fact we had a single link to one in all his time here with Perisic. Lingard is the closest thing we have to a 'winger' on the right. Martial, Rashford and Sanchez aren't wingers who operate on the left either.

Toure and all those other names wouldn't be playing either imo. If there's one thing Jose knows, it's when players are finished, he doesn't give a shit about prestige or past history. Take how easily he phased out Rooney (who I'd put in a similar boat to those players) when he found out he wasn't good enough. He has a preference for experience obviously, but you still need to be up to the task.

Valencia and Young are aging, but they still had (have?) far more fuel left in the tank than Zabaleta etc. did and even still, with the signing of Dalot and the re-emergence of Shaw, it's looking as if they will be slowly phased out.

The thing for me is that I look at Gabriel Jesus playing for Pep & see almost no difference to Rashford or Martial. Those are forwards that Pep would utilise & not Lukaku.

He wanted perisic from the first season & also was linked to willian. He isn't choosing Mata & Lingard out wide because that's his preference - it's because he didn't get who he wants. To this day he has the ability to play Sanchez out on the right & still does not do it. Has the ability to play with forwards on the channels like Pep does - but does not do it.

His strikers have always been target men. His wingers when backed by the board have been one supplying & one inverted.

I don't think his phasing out of Rooney is down to him at all - he was completely useless under LVG & the fans +board had lost any hope in him - it was the easiest thing to do was to sell him. Keeping him would have been his first poor managerial decision especially since he had the role to take care of the growth of Rashford & Martial that had just broken through. What happened then? He bought Ibrahimlvic whilst he also complained about LVG getting the rid of players like welbeck, RVP, Nani or whoever LVG got rid of - so no I don't think assuming Jose would keep Man city's ex players is out of question.

Then look at our current midfield options -

Fellaini
Matic pogba
Fred

To assume he would keep Fernando, fernandinho, Toure is not far out of question because that's not all that different to what we have right now.

For a whole season I don't think Jose would play de bryjne & Silva together with only one DM - that would require us to play possession based football - to play counter attacking would be shooting ourselves at the foot. As far as I remember the Oscar & Mata hadn't played for a whole season & either way Oscar was used as a player who made forward runs from behind striker the same way he uses Lingard. Ozil & Modric are not both CAM for me - even though Modric played there he was a CM in ability & again did they play with one CDM to control possession for the whole season?

Like it's no question really - the Chelsea supporter said it perfectly couple posts above. One manager prioritizes technical ability across his squad whilst other utilizes physicality hard work with few dashes of technical brilliance.

 

[haram]

Yeah Mourinho would have kept Fernando and Toure the same way he kept Schweinsteiger and Schneiderlin. This guy is unbelievable.

 

[Hound Dog]

Money is not the issue - Pep here with 150mil less would be trying to play technical football whilst Jose at City would have they playing like Builders. Man City have the better manager and the better budget - they therefore play wonderful football with the ability to get results & break some records on the way.

Nowadays everyone likes to pretend that Pep's first season never happened.

If it showed us anything it is that his style of football comes down crumbling as a deck of cards if he does not have absolute class in each position. He spent 200 mill on a new ball-playing defence and suddenly all is good. (Off topic, I dont think he can ever again win the CL with his style unless he gets another Barcelona 09-11-quality squad go work with)

Given that the dquad he inherited at City was better overall and better suited to playing technical football than the one he would have gotten at United, one has to wonder how he would do with a worse squad and less money to spend.