The Mourinho Thread: Should he stay or go? | Sacked

[Runaway Sue]

Every manager says that of any team they play.

They do.
But not always are they correct. In this particular case Klopp is spot on.

 

[Beaucoup]

I want Eddie Howe

Look yourself in the mirror and say that sentence out loud to yourself, you feel ridiculous, don’t you?

 

[Sentient Meat]

Do you know who was Real Madrid's coach when they signed Ronaldo? Mauricio Pellegrino.
Do you know who was Barcelona's coach when they signed Neymar? Gerardo Martino.

This cult of the manager is an overrated and overstated thing. Chelsea basically did not even have a manager when they signed Hazard. It's not that big a deal.

I cut the rest because, frankly, it was a lot of words to say "a new manager is not guaranteed to be better" which is 1) the bleeding obvious, 2) not a good reason to just sit on our arse and do nothing.

I just wanted to see a rough outline of a plan of what we might see if we got rid of Jose.

So far most Jose detractors haven't thought it through that far.

It's not like Wenger who was years from sniffing a title. Jose had us in second last year.

Clearly something needs to happen... it looks like he'll be gone from the sheer force of public opinion... but I still haven't seen anyone give us a rough idea of what that might look like.

Especially if they are done spending for awhile.

 

[AgentP]

Jose and his negativity has killed my enthusiasm for football. Before the season even started, he complained and complained about each and everything. We lost against Liverpool in a friendly where we played our young kids. No one really bothered about the result but he immediately threw them under the bus. I mean who does that. Can't he be a little encouraging or just say it's a friendly and doesn't matter. His whole attitude sucks. The players must be fed up of his stupid antics.

 

[Wumminator]

I just wanted to see a rough outline of a plan of what we might see if we got rid of Jose.

So far most Jose detractors haven't thought it through that far.

It's not like Wenger who was years from sniffing a title. Jose had us in second last year.

Clearly something needs to happen... it looks like he'll be gone from the sheer force of public opinion... but I still haven't seen anyone give us a rough idea of what that might look like.

Especially if they are done spending for awhile.

Who says they’re done spending for a while?

What it looks like? Mourinho goes, we hire a better manager and we play better football. What on Earth do you mean “what does it look like”?. It looks like we get a decent manager in who improves the footballers.

For an example, see Chelsea going from battling relegation to winning the league.

 

[Dr. Dwayne]

Jose and his negativity has killed my enthusiasm for football. Before the season even started, he complained and complained about each and everything. We lost against Liverpool in a friendly where we played our young kids. No one really bothered about the result but he immediately threw them under the bus. I mean who does that. Can't he be a little encouraging or just say it's a friendly and doesn't matter. His whole attitude sucks. The players must be fed up of his stupid antics.

Moyes and LvG did it for me. Jose just kicked the corpse a few times.

 

[RedFish]

Feels like we're a job half done. Let the man do his work. Board need to back him, otherwise they should have fired him before the start of this season.

 

[Garethw]

Feels like we're a job half done. Let the man do his work. Board need to back him, otherwise they should have fired him before the start of this season.

Did you say the same for Moyes and LVG? Mourinho is on exactly the same trajectory as those two.

 

[RedFish]

Did you say the same for Moyes and LVG? Mourinho is on exactly the same trajectory as those two.

Must admit I did, buuuuttt Mou, I believe, is different, he wasn't backed in the summer, and we're were on an upward trajectory and winning silverware.

 

[Fracture90]

Must admit I did, buuuuttt Mou, I believe, is different, he wasn't backed in the summer, and we're were on an upward trajectory and winning silverware.

How come?

 

[RedFish]

How come?

I don't know! I wish I knew. It doesn't make sense to keep on a manager you don't fully believe in. I say that because not only did Woodward not back him in the window, he also seems quite happy to undermine him like at various points this season.

 

[AndyJ1985]

Must admit I did, buuuuttt Mou, I believe, is different, he wasn't backed in the summer, and we're were on an upward trajectory and winning silverware.

This has to be the most ridiculous excuse that gets repeated. As if signing one or two more players would make a significant difference after he's already made a fecking mess of signing almost a dozen.

 

[Fracture90]

I don't know! I wish I knew. It doesn't make sense to keep on a manager you don't fully believe in. I say that because not only did Woodward not back him in the window, he also seems quite happy to undermine him like at various points this season.

Well he got 3 players in the summer, right?

 

[Judas]

I wish I was daft enough to still support Jose, maybe I’d enjoy our terrible terrible terrible games more, maybe as long as there’s a cool quote from the great man I could go to bed smiling.

 

[Foxbatt]

The bigger problem is that we will not get any new promising players to come to United with Jose in charge. Unless we sack him now all the new players with potential will go to other clubs for sure.

 

[Judas]

Untrue, everyone knows he’s a dead man walking.

 

[Sentient Meat]

Who says they’re done spending for a while?

What it looks like? Mourinho goes, we hire a better manager and we play better football. What on Earth do you mean “what does it look like”?. It looks like we get a decent manager in who improves the footballers.

For an example, see Chelsea going from battling relegation to winning the league.

I already gave the example of how one year Ranieri wins the league... then he's out the next year

Conte wins the league... then he's out

Zidane wins CL 3 times in a row... then he's out

Jose gets the team to second... then he's out

Is the problem that they were good coaches one year, and became poor the next... or is it something else?

I get people who want him gone because they simply don't like him or his personality. That makes sense to me.

What I don't get is people who think we will so easily find a better manager.

Can we find someone who gives moral support and keeps out of everyone's way? Sure. And it might work.

But I'm not sure how sustainable that type of manager would be.

If people feel talent is the issue... maybe the solution is to hire a football director and let Jose manage.

This worked in Los Angeles where the Clippers basketball coach was in charge of drafting and acquisitions... and then was demoted to only coaching.

The team started winning when this happened.

I had wanted Klopp before we acquired Jose... but the timing was wrong as he became available after we hired LVG.

If we had a great manager of Pep or Klopp's track record waiting... I'd get the decision but although I fully agree a new, untested manager might inject some life into the squad... I also can see it setting us back.

I really don't think Jose's done a poor job of managing other than daring to stand up to Pogba, which has clearly had a bad chain reaction.

Maybe he's living in the past where coaches could put players in their place... but I'm not sure he's lost the ability to win.

 

[Foxbatt]

Jose's problem is not that we are not winning. When we were winning people were accepting his kind and style of football. It was never going to be accepted at a club like United, Liverpool etc when the manager is not winning. Now he is not winning this issue has come to the forefront.
If Jose had a plan and if we played good football then people would accept it. Now we are having problems with every team we play. Be it in the PL or the CL. We always have a fight on our hands. We could not even beat Southampton away.
This has got nothing to do with Pogba. Pogba get his criticism from the fans on how he plays but that has got nothing to do with the frustrations with Jose.

 

[Scholsey2004]

I already gave the example of how one year Ranieri wins the league... then he's out the next year

Conte wins the league... then he's out

Zidane wins CL 3 times in a row... then he's out

Jose gets the team to second... then he's out

Is the problem that they were good coaches one year, and became poor the next... or is it something else?

I get people who want him gone because they simply don't like him or his personality. That makes sense to me.

What I don't get is people who think we will so easily find a better manager.

Can we find someone who gives moral support and keeps out of everyone's way? Sure. And it might work.

But I'm not sure how sustainable that type of manager would be.

If people feel talent is the issue... maybe the solution is to hire a football director and let Jose manage.

This worked in Los Angeles where the Clippers basketball coach was in charge of drafting and acquisitions... and then was demoted to only coaching.

The team started winning when this happened.

I had wanted Klopp before we acquired Jose... but the timing was wrong as he became available after we hired LVG.

If we had a great manager of Pep or Klopp's track record waiting... I'd get the decision but although I fully agree a new, untested manager might inject some life into the squad... I also can see it setting us back.

I really don't think Jose's done a poor job of managing other than daring to stand up to Pogba, which has clearly had a bad chain reaction.

Maybe he's living in the past where coaches could put players in their place... but I'm not sure he's lost the ability to win.

Zidane wasn't sacked, he quit.

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

His presser today was a disgrace.

 

[Canagel]

Must admit I did, buuuuttt Mou, I believe, is different, he wasn't backed in the summer, and we're were on an upward trajectory and winning silverware.

He was backed. He got 3 players. 4 actually because Sanchez was considered like a summer signing.

 

[Sentient Meat]

Zidane wasn't sacked, he quit.

Isn't that semantics? A case where they let someone quit to save face?

Otherwise, why is he in consideration for our job?

 

[RedDevil@84]

Must admit I did, buuuuttt Mou, I believe, is different, he wasn't backed in the summer, and we're were on an upward trajectory and winning silverware.

Depends on how you want to see it. But from the rumours it seemed his targets were Toby (Levy wanted 70M or so) and Maguire for whatever big money. I don't think Woodward was particularly wrong not to give Jose a blank cheque. We needed better targets if he wanted to splash big money.

 

[C'est Moi Cantona]

Feels like we're a job half done. Let the man do his work. Board need to back him, otherwise they should have fired him before the start of this season.

He's already spent big on the defence, midfield, and attack, so what half is not done?

More like we're a job fully done by a manager who has just got it wrong, so we either let him rip it up all over again, or get shut.

 

[Cathy Ferguson]

What did Poch achieve at Soton that Howe has not achieved at Bournemouth?

It is unlikely that Spurs will allow Poch to join us and Zidane took over a team at its peak at Real. What other candidates are out there? Allegri or Ancelotti as short term solutions?

 

[Eric's Seagull]

He can't even own up to the fact that this is his team, from the reserves to the starting team

He will never admit that this is his team as his ego cant take it when any of is decisions backfires on him. He needs to grow a pair, we all make mistakes. It shows character to be able to admit these mistakes, rectify the errors and overcome them and try to not make the same mistake should a similar situation arise in the future.

 

[Stactix]

Must admit I did, buuuuttt Mou, I believe, is different, he wasn't backed in the summer, and we're were on an upward trajectory and winning silverware.

I don't think a new CB would of changed much this season to be honest, he was a toxic bellend even before the window closed.
last season was like his 14/15 season at Chelsea where they won the league. Utd just couldn't keep pace with a record breaking City but Utd would of won the league in multiple seasons.
The thing is, despite winning the league in 14/15 with Chelsea he then took them to 16th the following season. On the opening day of the season the Eva situation occured.

Very similar result this season, just not as bad as I think the players haven't fully given up on him despite the simple fact he's a negative toxic cnut.
The issue though for me is that this team will be worse under Mourinho in the second half of the season, his teams usually play much better in the first half and things are escalating so it's only going to get worse.
And at the end of the day what is the point of keeping him? Horrific football, constant drama and shite results.

Utd will need to go through some growing pains but I do think Utd need a young progressive manager this time around that the style of play and entertainment factor come first, then the results come. Sure, we can keep going for instant success but the same result will keep happening. Shite football, for the odd result.

 

[Fracture90]

Isn't that semantics? A case where they let someone quit to save face?

Otherwise, why is he in consideration for our job?

Nah you mixed up Zidan leaving Madrid with Mourinho leaving Madrid.

 

[fellaini's barber]

Isn't that semantics? A case where they let someone quit to save face?

Otherwise, why is he in consideration for our job?

Are you talking about Zidane quitting to save face after winning the CL three times in a row?

 

[Eric's Seagull]

The issue though for me is that this team will be worse under Mourinho in the second half of the season, his teams usually play much better in the first half and things are escalating so it's only going to get worse

If this turns out to be the case we should feck him off now so the season doesn't get any worse. Get in the \Director of football then nrw manager and let them analyse what we need to do and start planning for the next season.

I also think we should give the DoF the power to employ as many people as he thinks he needs to get us bach up challenging even if he he to create job titles for them.

I for one feel we should do whatever it takes to get us challenging, even if that ruffles a few feathers and and leaves us out of pocket short term to eventually contribute to long term gain.

 

[Sentient Meat]

Are you talking about Zidane quitting to save face after winning the CL three times in a row?

Wasn't he getting shit for finishing third in the league and losing the Copa del rey?

Like another serial winner being run out of town after finishing second?

Look, I get that I'm not going to change anyone's mind here any more than I'd change an Arsenal fan's mind about Wenger last season.

I was glad when we fired Moyes and Van Gaal... I get why Arsenal forced Wenger to retire.

I just don't think at 55 that Jose is done... and I don't see a surefire replacement.

But I will back the new manager when he comes... I just happen to disagree with this decision.

 

[Seven Seas Sardines]

I'm praying for a 6-0 battering from Liverpool so that the board have to sack him.

Call me a fake fan for wanting United to lose to the Scousers if you want, but in the long-term it'd be of tremendous benefit to the club if it means that Jose is out the door.

I didn't wanna beat Liverpool 6-0 when it meant Klopp coming in instead of Brendan. Pretty sure most scouse don't want to be the reason United sack Mourinho either.

I'd take a 6-0 loss over a tight 1-0 loss easily. Unfortunately I don't think the cancer will be sacked after a loss against the league leaders, we'd need a 0-6 against Huddersfield.

 

[Siorac]

I really don't think Jose's done a poor job of managing other than daring to stand up to Pogba, which has clearly had a bad chain reaction.

Your standards are really really low then.

 

[Sentient Meat]

Your standards are really really low then.

Just for the record... what specific changes do you want to see for the club?

Which manager do you want?

Which players have you targeted that management is willing to buy?

Because all I see are posts where people want him gone, and very few who offer specifics.

As if he's a bacterial infection that can be cured with a quick dose of penicillin.

I'm not saying you all are wrong... I'd just like to see a clear plan... because nothing anyone's written here has put my mind at ease.

 

[Siorac]

Just for the record... what specific changes do you want to see for the club?

Which manager do you want?

Which players have you targeted that management is willing to buy?

Because all I see are posts where people want him gone, and very few who offer specifics.

As if he's a bacterial infection that can be cured with a quick dose of penicillin.

I'm not saying you all are wrong... I'd just like to see a clear plan... because nothing anyone's written here has put my mind at ease.

That is actually a good analogy. He is a fecking bacterial infection. And even if you also have cancer at the same time, it's still a good idea to take antibiotics so that at least one problem is taken care of.

 

[Hugh Jass]

Liam Brady was saying we should sack him ASAP and bring in Wenger until the summer. Mind you Brady was the one saying from day one that Mourinho did not fit United. A recent quote was that the man utd manager was on the other side of the city, as in he was managing Manchester City.

 

[Random Task]

Just for the record... what specific changes do you want to see for the club?

Which manager do you want?

Which players have you targeted that management is willing to buy?

Because all I see are posts where people want him gone, and very few who offer specifics.

As if he's a bacterial infection that can be cured with a quick dose of penicillin.

I'm not saying you all are wrong... I'd just like to see a clear plan... because nothing anyone's written here has put my mind at ease.

Read the other 560 pages in this thread if you want specifics.

There is a multitude of suitable candidates available to take over management of our club (check the new manager thread for evidence to that fact) but even if there wasn't, that is no reason to settle for Jose and his frankly cancerous methods.

 

[Mockney]

Feels like we're a job half done. Let the man do his work. Board need to back him, otherwise they should have fired him before the start of this season.

These kind of arguments melt my melon man. We shouldn’t have gone to war with Iraq either. That we did, isn’t an excuse for sticking out the endless clusterfeck that followed!... That’s how Naz...erm, Trump’s America started!... (probably.)

Some of the innumerable problems with that are... for example...

a) He’s been here for 3 years now and can field virtually an entire XI of his own players... augmented by his obvious favourites like Fellaini & Young (whom he could replace, but consistently resists doing) What part of that is unfinished? And if it isn’t, whose fault is it?

b) If the likes of Pep, Klopp, Emery, Sarri (and every other 2nd Chelsea manager since 2010, for that matter) can noticeably improve the fortunes, confidence and playing style of a struggling top tier side with a mish mash of good but underperforming players, within half a season or so... which half of the 5 half seasons Jose has spent here, has you convinced he can improve further on the consistently awful, anti-style non-football we’ve seen so far?

c) If our squad is as shit and mid-table as he says, and reaching 2nd was the unfathomably monumental managerial achievement he claims... how exactly does that disprove the idea that a squad is only as good as it’s manager? Or that a new, more motivated manager - who doesn’t throw his entire team under the bus and call them shit at every turn - couldn’t perceivably change our fortunes for the better, by, I dunno, maybe not doing those things? If it was the genius of our manager that got this apparently horrendous £400m squad to drastically overachieve, why isn’t it the same manager’s fault that the same squad is now drastically underachieving? And if it isn’t, why do we even need a manager at all? Let alone such an expensive, elite, personality-cultivating one? What is it we're paying for, or being slavishly loyal to, exactly?

b - ii) And if it was only Fergie’s genius that allowed us to continue being successful and competitive under the Glazers, and miraculously won us the League with the exact same squad that Moyes took to 6th.... how (again!) does that work in favour of the notion that any manager is automatically doomed to fail in our set up? Isn’t the entire reason we hired Jose because he was in the same Fergie-bracket of uniquely brilliant formative bosses? That could get us back into the big time through his own managerial brilliance, without us needing to throw money at any old journeyman schmoe, like Chelsea, or City. And if that wasn't the point, then again (AGAIN!) why did we hire him!? Any manager can complain about City’s Arab state sponsored spending, but you don't hire Jose fecking Mourinho for him to complain about how it's preventing him from competing with the likes of fecking Spurs! Who didn't sign a single fecking player this summer!

c) If the fact he’s historically been a winner at other clubs, is the thing you’re clinging to as the reason he could still, maybe, turn it around here...then why doesn’t the fact that he’s self imploded at every same club in his 3rd season, and is an entirely unknown quantity at this stage in his historical tenure, not an equally importantly 'factual' touchstone?

d) Even if he could potentially salvage his time here...what costs are you willing to except? He fell out with Ronaldo at Madrid, Hazard at Chelsea, and Pogba and Martial here... the other 2 chose the players over him, and almost immediately recovered... if we do “let him finish” what do you envisage that finished product being, exactly? ‘Cos by current accounts, it’s a team of Fellainis, Lukakus and Matic’s, where Willian replaces Martial, who becomes the new Salah or De Bruyne at Juve or wherever, and the likes of Periera, Gomes and Chong become the new Pogbas, leaving for pastures new. Is that the team you want?

And more than that, the very high profile nature of our hideous, formless, undead anti-style under Jose, means even the kind of players we’d usually attract as Manchester United, are beginning to turn away because of it. I don't know whether the summer gossip about Mbappe saying he didn't want to come here under Jose is true (probably not) but if you were Mbappe, or a Dembele, or a Greizmann, would you want to play for us right now?.. I mean, if Messi decided to leave Barca tomorrow, how high on his list d’you reckon we’d be? Then think how much higher the allure of a Pep or a Klopp, is? Why would any new Ronaldo/Rooney-esque talents want to play for Jose's Manchester United? Whatever our results, isn’t that somewhat of a fecking problem!?

The double edged sword of being the so called “biggest club in the world” is that our in-house issues are huge global news. The World knows we’re a shit show. And even if by some miracle Jose gets us back to the top in the long term, what effect will that have on us as a club? Or as a (**hock, spit**) brand? If he’s allowed to sell all our flair players for a squad of Ent-like try hards, and we shithouse our way to a title.... then what? Do we become the football version of the Decepticons? Replacing our buccaneering legacy with one of forcible functionality? And what does the next manager after him do, with an empty Academy and an aging team of aggressive loyal oversized 29 year olds? What does sticking with him actually mean?

I was over the moon when we signed Mourinho, but I was wrong. So, so wrong. And I’m sorry. @Wumminator was right. He should be allowed to flagellate half the forum, in truth. And I’d take it. Gladly. Like the bad, bad boy I am...Like we all were. Forgive us. We knew not what we did.

(I may be a little drunk, fwiw)

 

[Tiber]

Must admit I did, buuuuttt Mou, I believe, is different, he wasn't backed in the summer, and we're were on an upward trajectory and winning silverware.

Yea. His past transfer businesses at United was dreadful but maybe the next hundred million would have worked out differently than the last one

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

Isn't that semantics? A case where they let someone quit to save face?

Otherwise, why is he in consideration for our job?

What semantics?

He left the job after winning a 3rd CL and reportedly clashing with Perez over summer transfers.

Perez didn't think he'd step down. He never would have sacked him.