The Mourinho Thread: Should he stay or go? | Sacked

Is Mourinho’s time as United manager up?

  • Yes

    Votes: 2,296 77.1%

  • No

    Votes: 293 9.8%

  • Not yet - needs more time to see if he can turn it around

    Votes: 388 13.0%
  • Total voters
    2,977
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It feels like this is just a game between the 2 most powerful men at the club now. A clash of egos. A battle of wills. Mourinho is doing everything within his power to sabotage the club to try to get sacked so he gets his payout, whilst simultaneously blaming everyone else around him for the crap results, performances, tactics and selections.

Woodward seems like he won't sack the guy until top 4 is impossible and he can only pay him 1 year of compensation.

Neither man is acting in the best interests of Manchester United.
 
Bilbo said:
We had the 2nd best defence in the league last season. What changed exactly? The personnel didn't.

Mourinho wanted a centre back. The board didn't want to sign his targets. His idea of the right reaction to this was to start a public slanging match and telling everyone who would listen that our defenders weren't good enough, destroying morale and confidence. We are seeing the results of that this season.

He created the problem because his need to protect his own reputation far outweighs his abilities as a man manager.
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I suppose this makes sense... but playing devil's advocate... if you are a 7 or 8 year veteran and you are so mentally weak that you get ruined by a manager's comments... do you really belong on a title winning team?

Shaw's playing the best of all of them... and got the most crap from Jose.

Nah, I don't buy it... I buy that some of the players are weak... but if you told Rio and Vidic that they weren't good enough... they would have laughed and proved him wrong.

Maybe they'd ask for a transfer... but they wouldn't play like this
 
Frustration is clearly causing some daft reactions but the lack of action isn't a surprise. Mourinho should've gone in the summer, or at the very latest September or October if we had any ambitions for this season.

The fact that Mourinho's been allowed to run the club this far into the ground only demonstrates the license being afforded to him. He'll only go once top 4 is gone and the Champions League is done. Probably not that long in the context of our season but it will no doubt feel like an eternity watching this soul-destroying football for another 2-3 months.
 
Sentient Meat said:
It's a fair point that many have made about morale... but I already addressed that if your star player attempts to assert his will over the team... you can either let it happen and be a "players' manager" or you can assert your own will. It worked in the case of Shaw... possibly with Martial... not so well with Pogba.

Personally I'd go with Jose and his years of trophies... seems like most here go with Pogba and the players.

When there's this large of critical mass against him... I can't help but feel an inevitability about his dismissal... but I think he was dealt a bad hand in this case.

I hope we beat Liverpool and turn the season around and Jose gets saved... but damn it's hard to believe after watching the Valencia match.
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I understand you wanting it to work for Jose. I'm guessing all of us want a manager to come and succeed, as this means the team is successful. I supported Jose all the way through, however, at the beginning of the season after he didn't get what he wanted, he spat out his dummy. From there on wards, the season never got back on track. If you compare this to Poch, who had a moan, then just got on with it and got around to getting the best out of his players.

I'm not one for player power or manager power. A team needs to work in harmony. Something which Mourinho is not capable of as he has to take all of the glory and none of the criticism.
 
Sentient Meat said:
I suppose this makes sense... but playing devil's advocate... if you are a 7 or 8 year veteran and you are so mentally weak that you get ruined by a manager's comments... do you really belong on a title winning team?

Shaw's playing the best of all of them... and got the most crap from Jose.

Nah, I don't buy it... I buy that some of the players are weak... but if you told Rio and Vidic that they weren't good enough... they would have laughed and proved him wrong.

Maybe they'd ask for a transfer... but they wouldn't play like this
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What are on about. Both rio and vidic had a horrendous time under moyes. Both winning with a strong mentality but totally fell apart under a mentality that was poor.
 
Honestly there's no point in keeping him till the end of the season except for financial reasons. Otherwise the same shite scenario will repeat, the new manager will keep in summer and ask to keep everyone to evaluate them himself, and the next season wilo end up again as a struggle to finish in top 4. Nightmare stuff. Sack Mourinho now and bring the new manager to evaluate the players for the rest or this useless season. Otherwise we can consider the next season wasted as well.
 
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Sentient Meat said:
I suppose this makes sense... but playing devil's advocate... if you are a 7 or 8 year veteran and you are so mentally weak that you get ruined by a manager's comments... do you really belong on a title winning team?

Shaw's playing the best of all of them... and got the most crap from Jose.

Nah, I don't buy it... I buy that some of the players are weak... but if you told Rio and Vidic that they weren't good enough... they would have laughed and proved him wrong.

Maybe they'd ask for a transfer... but they wouldn't play like this
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Shaw has been no better than before all the shittalking was being made, Mourinho has just found it convenient to finally bring him in for some reason.

And Vidic and Ferdinand hardly proved Moyes wrong when he showed them clips of Jagielka did they?
 
mancan92 said:
What are on about. Both rio and vidic had a horrendous time under moyes. Both winning with a strong mentality but totally fell apart under a mentality that was poor.
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Maybe Vidic had a year left, but they were pretty much old by the time that happened. Moyes couldn't destroy their confidence... maybe he could annoy them a little.
 
el3mel said:
Honestly there's no point in keeping him till the end of the season except financial reasons. Otherwise the same shite scenario will repeat, the new manager will keep in summer and ask to keep everyone to evaluate them himself, and the next season wilo end up again as a struggle to finish in top 4. Nightmare stuff. Sack Mourinho now and bring the new manager to evaluate the players for the rest or this useless season. Otherwise we can consider the next season wasted as well.
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Fully agree. I just kind of hope that we have an agreement with a new manager already, who is watching our games. Zidane could be the one
 
Sentient Meat said:
Maybe Vidic had a year left, but they were pretty much old by the time that happened. Moyes couldn't destroy their confidence... maybe he could annoy them a little.
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Did you watch the moyes season? we had a title winning team. He destroyed the confidence of the team. Even top players rvp, rio , vidic, evra, all were absolutely horrible and played like players with no confidence in their ability. We are talking about top top players totally losing their faith in their ability due to a poor inept and depressing manager in only a matter of months. Jose has had 3 years to destroy the current players confidence.
 
Sentient Meat said:
I suppose this makes sense... but playing devil's advocate... if you are a 7 or 8 year veteran and you are so mentally weak that you get ruined by a manager's comments... do you really belong on a title winning team?

Shaw's playing the best of all of them... and got the most crap from Jose.

Nah, I don't buy it... I buy that some of the players are weak... but if you told Rio and Vidic that they weren't good enough... they would have laughed and proved him wrong.

Maybe they'd ask for a transfer... but they wouldn't play like this
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Playing devil's advocate here but should a manager who doesn't take responsibility and throws his players under the bus for everything be allowed to manage this club.
Rio and Vidic both left United or downed tools under Moyes rather than proving him wrong.
 
mancan92 said:
Did you watch the moyes season? we had a title winning team. He destroyed the confidence of the team. Even top players rvp, rio , vidic, evra, all were absolutely horrible and played like players with no confidence in their ability. We are talking about top top players totally losing their faith in their ability due to a poor inept and depressing manager in only a matter of months. Jose has had 3 years to destroy the current players confidence.
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These players were at the end of the career. Not defending Moyes or anything but these players did nothing post Moyes, Rio went to QPR, Vidic was dreadful for Inter and Evra blew hot and cold for Juve. They were simply declining. SAF retired because he thought it'll be better for a new manager to start a long term rebuild in his own views. Moyes and Ed fecked it up. LvG throw half of the squad out of the window but his problem was replacing them with deadwood so nothing changed. Mourinho was killed by his choices of his own big signings who were all inconsistent or shite.
 
mancan92 said:
No we had a title winning team. He destroyed the confidence of the team. Even top players rvp, rio , vidic, evra, all were absolutely horrible and played like players with no confidence in their ability. We are talking about top top players totally losing their faith in their ability due to a poor inept and depressing manager in only a matter of months. Jose has had 3 years to destroy the current players confidence.
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I can buy destroying morale... but not confidence... Especially when you are talking about champions.

You have old veterans who loved their manager and now the clown is showing them Jagielka's clips as the Johnny just said...

Difference between Jose and Moyes is we were 2nd and playing well last season... we won some trophies... you can't compare him to Moyes.

I blame Pogba more than Jose... he openly challenged his manager... Valencia did too... Jose made the choice that he'd rather go down on his principles than folding like Moyes did when he was desperately trying to preserve his job.

Maybe Jose could have done it with more tact and guile... but I don't think publicly challenging your manager is the way to go about it.
 
el3mel said:
Honestly there's no point in keeping him till the end of the season except for financial reasons. Otherwise the same shite scenario will repeat, the new manager will keep in summer and ask to keep everyone to evaluate them himself, and the next season wilo end up again as a struggle to finish in top 4. Nightmare stuff. Sack Mourinho now and bring the new manager to evaluate the players for the rest or this useless season. Otherwise we can consider the next season wasted as well.
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Agree with your comment but especially the bolded part.
 
el3mel said:
These players were at the end of the career. Not defending Moyes or anything but these players did nothing post Moyes, Rio went to QPR, Vidic was dreadful for Inter and Evra blew hot and cold for Juve. They were simply declining. SAF retired because he thought it'll be better for a new manager to start a long term rebuild in his own views. Moyes and Ed fecked it up. LvG throw half of the squad out of the window but his problem was replacing them with deadwood so nothing changed. Mourinho was killed by his choices of his own big signings who were all inconsistent or shite.
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My point is that players went to shit confidence wise in a short space of time under a negative manager. Ok I don't even need to talk about us under moyes just look at real Madrid this season. People don't understand how big an impact managers make to players confidence.
 
Sentient Meat said:
Wait, by asking for defensive reinforcements in advance of the season and playing with defensive, negative tactics... he created a defensive problem?

This is why I'm confused about how he can be the cause of more goals on defense, yet stifling our offense.

The morale issue is a fair point.

But tactically, this doesn't make any sense.
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It does, as he doesn't want the players to press in opposition half and press collectively. Concede space in the middle for other teams to dominate you, immobile mid can be overrun and beaten over a short space of acceleration and it creates pressure after pressure for the defenders to sustain. It gives away more corners and free kicks near our own box from which opposition can score. He wants to defend so near our own box that the ball always is near our own goal area and this we keep conceding more goals. Gives away the possession so cheaply with long balls without winning second balls and then wants the team to drop so deep without pressing. That creates pressure team can not cope with.
 
Sentient Meat said:
I can buy destroying morale... but not confidence... Especially when you are talking about champions.

You have old veterans who loved their manager and now the clown is showing them Jagielka's clips as the Johnny just said...

Difference between Jose and Moyes is we were 2nd and playing well last season... we won some trophies... you can't compare him to Moyes.

I blame Pogba more than Jose... he openly challenged his manager... Valencia did too... Jose made the choice that he'd rather go down on his principles than folding like Moyes did when he was desperately trying to preserve his job.

Maybe Jose could have done it with more tact and guile... but I don't think publicly challenging your manager is the way to go about it.
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So you blame pogba for asking the manager to attack and that's the reason for the loss of the morale.

Yet Jose you don't blame when he public slates the club, players and fans almost on a weekly basis ?

Am I reading this right?
 
mancan92 said:
My point is that players went to shit confidence wise in a short space of time under a negative manager. Ok I don't even need to talk about us under moyes just look at real Madrid this season. People don't understand how big an impact managers make to players confidence.
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The decline was obvious for some time. Our defense in SAF last 2 seasons was shite. We were going down and conceding a lot but we were a team of high quality upfront and lots of guts and heart to keep covering for it. The squad was approaching its end and needed a rebuild. SAF decided to let someone else the start the project this time. That's what Zidane did, Madrid last season were dreadful in all competitions apart from CL. A similar case in Inter after winning the treble, a great squad but approaching its end and finish it in style, before collapsing next season because you thought it was good enough to go on without starting the rebuild
 
Patrick08 said:
It does, as he doesn't want the players to press in opposition half and press collectively. Concede space in the middle for other teams to dominate you, immobile mid can be overrun and beaten over a short space of acceleration and it creates pressure after pressure for the defenders to sustain. It gives away more corners and free kicks near our own box from which opposition can score. He wants to defend so near our own box that the ball always is near our own goal area and this we keep conceding more goals. Gives away the possession so cheaply with long balls without winning second balls and then wants the team to drop so deep without pressing. That creates pressure team can not cope with.
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So if he employed Fred instead of Matic we would be okay?

I think once the rift began with Pogba... combined with the poor defense... he was forced to play an aging Matic to disastrous results.

Your answer makes sense, but I don't think he felt he had the personnel to cope without creating a goal fest for the other side.
 
"Nothing that happened surprised me at all."

If that's the case his exit is really overdue.
 
fallengt said:
Is it weird that I think LvG was better?
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I don't necessarily agree but I wouldn't say it's weird to think it. His signings were poor and his football was awful but at least he tried to implement a distinctive style of play, while trying to promote some youth. Still his methods were outdated and judging from the leaked information about his training methods, the modern footballer isn't going to put up with it. With better players who knows, maybe it could have worked out.
 
mancan92 said:
So you blame pogba for asking the manager to attack and that's the reason for the loss of the morale.

Yet Jose you don't blame when he public slates the club, players and fans almost on a weekly basis ?

Am I reading this right?
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Oh Jose can be a petulant child... but when you pay 100 million for someone, you expect them to be professional if nothing else.

There's plenty of blame to go around, but I'm old school in that I think the players should respect the manager rather than the manager should bend to the will of the players.

Pogba wasn't hired to be the manager... if Ed wants to make him a player manager then that's a different story.
 
Sentient Meat said:
I suppose this makes sense... but playing devil's advocate... if you are a 7 or 8 year veteran and you are so mentally weak that you get ruined by a manager's comments... do you really belong on a title winning team?

Shaw's playing the best of all of them... and got the most crap from Jose.

Nah, I don't buy it... I buy that some of the players are weak... but if you told Rio and Vidic that they weren't good enough... they would have laughed and proved him wrong.

Maybe they'd ask for a transfer... but they wouldn't play like this
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These people are still human beings. You are going to be affected when your manager tells you and everybody else that you are not talented enough to do your job.

Jose falls in and out of love with his players every other week. I can't think of a single other team in my 41 years that changes its defence every single game like United do. What is our best centre back partnership? Who will play on Sunday? Which player is next to be frozen out for a month? Nobody knows. Not even Jose.

You simply cannot have a top level defence without continuity.

All of these decisions that Jose makes have created a poor defence.
 
The molasses pace that this club operates at makes it imperative that they get in a new manager with a DOF ASAP. Waiting until the summer is just wasting all this time that could be used to begin anew. If it's an interim with a freedom to just get the players playing proactive football...then fine. If Woodward realized the game JM was playing, he'd bring in a DOF tomorrow...and just poke him back. Of course Woodward should go too, but unless the Glazers actually decide to suddenly care about being a 'football' club, this is the best short term step that can be taken.
 
el3mel said:
The decline was obvious for some time. Our defense in SAF last 2 seasons was shite. We were going down and conceding a lot but we were a team of high quality upfront and lots of guts and heart to keep covering for it. The squad was approaching its end and needed a rebuild. SAF decided to let someone else the start the project this time. That's what Zidane did, Madrid last season were dreadful in all competitions apart from CL. A similar case in Inter after winning the treble, a great squad but approaching its end and finish it in style, before collapsing next season because you thought it was good enough to go on without starting the rebuild
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What is your point? Madrid have a list of top class players who are in their prime who have gone to complete crap. Nothing to do with age of anything.
 
Sentient Meat said:
but I don't think he felt he had the personnel to cope without creating a goal fest for the other side.
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We have conceded so many goals till December in a title winning team concedes in full season already, this is the opposition goal fest already, what he's doing is producing opposite results yet he wants better defenders so that he can park the bus effectively and knick a smash and grab.
 
Sentient Meat said:
Oh Jose can be a petulant child... but when you pay 100 million for someone, you expect them to be professional if nothing else.

There's plenty of blame to go around, but I'm old school in that I think the players should respect the manager rather than the manager should bend to the will of the players.

Pogba wasn't hired to be the manager... if Ed wants to make him a player manager then that's a different story.
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You said you blame pogba more for the lack of confidence from the rest of the team. How can pogba be the reason for asking the manager to attack. When the manager is the one actively calling out everyone and their grandmother.

It doesn't matter how old school you are. Players lose confidence when their confidence is constantly called into question on a weekly basis not because their colleague asked the manager to attack more.
 
Dans said:
"Nothing that happened surprised me at all."

If that's the case his exit is really overdue.
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"Look at what I have to work with"

"Of course we lost - all of our players are not good enough"

"I'm working miracles here with these crap players - we finished 2nd you know! That was all from my brilliance"

This is what he is saying. In public, and all of the time. Hammering our players. Destroying confidence. Damaging this club to protect his own reputation.
 
mancan92 said:
What is your point? Madrid have a list of top class players who are in their prime who have gone to complete crap. Nothing to do with age of anything.
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Madrid squad has been declining since last season. They were ultra shite in the league and Cup and were only good in CL. What is happening this season is no surprise for anyone who followed them last season, similar to us under SAF in his last 2 season then under Moyes. Both squads were obviously declining for some time, just some (like you) couldn't see it and were surprised by the collapse that happened to both teams, others could.
 
mancan92 said:
You said you blame pogba more for the lack of confidence from the rest of the team. How can pogba be the reason for asking the manager to attack. When the manager is the one actively calling out everyone and their grandmother.

It doesn't matter how old school you are. Players lose confidence when their confidence is constantly called into question on a weekly basis not because their colleague asked the manager to attack more.
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Not lack of confidence... but maybe lack of respect.

Paul has a lot of charisma... that combined with his ability carries a lot of weight with the players

How do you think Sir Alex would like Pogba posting on Instagram what tactics he'd prefer?

Jose could have handled many aspects of this better... but I sympathize with his situation.

You have a charismatic guy who has the ear of the players... goes out and parties with them... and then he's questioning your tactics on social media.

How many bosses do you know that would accept their employees questioning their policies on facebook or Instagram?

Maybe he's getting too old to bridge the generational gap... but I don't think Jose's way out of line.
 
Raw said:
I don't necessarily agree but I wouldn't say it's weird to think it. His signings were poor and his football was awful but at least he tried to implement a distinctive style of play, while trying to promote some youth.
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That's my point. We could see the team was coached. LvG's style was boring in final third but collectively they played his football.

I don't see what Jose doing with current team other than stirring shit up every week. If anything he's exposed how clueless is the club from top to bottom. Day by day we find new problems and everyone can see club neede major overhaul.
 
Bilbo said:
How many bosses do you know that would accept their employees questioning their policies on facebook or Instagram?
.
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Yeah but to be fair, prior to that happening with Pogba (which I do disagree with) how many employees would feel like productivity and confidence was rock bottom if the boss was going around saying they 'were not good enough' for the job? Personally I'd be looking at new job listings!
 
Sentient Meat said:
Not lack of confidence... but maybe lack of respect.

Paul has a lot of charisma... that combined with his ability carries a lot of weight with the players

How do you think Sir Alex would like Pogba posting on Instagram what tactics he'd prefer?

Jose could have handled many aspects of this better... but I sympathize with his situation.

You have a charismatic guy who has the ear of the players... goes out and parties with them... and then he's questioning your tactics on social media.

How many bosses do you know that would accept their employees questioning their policies on facebook or Instagram?

Maybe he's getting too old to bridge the generational gap... but I don't think Jose's way out of line.
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I am of the view that he should sort it out face to face with mourinho, rather than downing tools. I am old school in that view as well.
 
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