The Mourinho Thread: Should he stay or go? | Sacked

[Bola]

If we get a spanking on Sunday, will the board finally act?

 

[Judas]

Nope. People need to stop thinking/hoping he's going anytime soon, he simply ain't.

 

[red thru&thru]

How is there still people who think he shouldn’t have gone by now? Are people still backing Mourinho?

 

[Sentient Meat]

How is there still people who think he shouldn’t have gone by now? Are people still backing Mourinho?

I wonder if someone can give us a step by step sequence of events that they visualize will happen after Mourinho gets fired.

Not just a general we sign Pochettino or Zidane and live happily ever after... but an actual rough outline of what will transpire.

Unless they are prepared to spend hundreds of millions like City... completely redo the defense and switch out Lukaku... I'm not sure what will change.

 

[Barca84]

I wonder if someone can give us a step by step sequence of events that they visualize will happen after Mourinho gets fired.

Not just a general we sign Pochettino or Zidane and live happily ever after... but an actual rough outline of what will transpire.

Unless they are prepared to spend hundreds of millions like City... completely redo the defense and switch out Lukaku... I'm not sure what will change.

!. Fire the cnut.
2. Butt/Carrick interim.
3. Install Pochettino
4. Rebuild
4. Sexy football

 

[Judas]

I don't think things will get suddenly better, we won't suddenly turn into world beaters, and challengers for every major honour, but I'll be happier because he's gone. His attitude stinks, his football stinks, and he's quite simply ruining football for me.

 

[Irrational.]

I have nussing to say.

 

[crossy1686]

!. Fire the cnut.
2. Butt/Carrick interim.
3. Install Pochettino
4. Rebuild
4. Sexy football

5. Terrible start to next season
6. Manager found to be out of his depth
7. Pogba complains about the style of football
8. United dumped out of the CL and never in the title race by Christmas
9. Pochettino sacked by the end of the season
10. Rinse and repeat

 

[Judas]

Pochettino could have an average first season with us, but if we can see signs of improvement (that wouldn't be hard), he'd obviously not be sacked.

 

[Moonred]

5. Terrible start to next season
6. Manager found to be out of his depth
7. Pogba complains about the style of football
8. United dumped out of the CL and never in the title race by Christmas
9. Pochettino sacked by the end of the season
10. Rinse and repeat

What CL?

 

[Bola]

I wonder if someone can give us a step by step sequence of events that they visualize will happen after Mourinho gets fired.

Not just a general we sign Pochettino or Zidane and live happily ever after... but an actual rough outline of what will transpire.

Unless they are prepared to spend hundreds of millions like City... completely redo the defense and switch out Lukaku... I'm not sure what will change.

Phase 1 - Stabilise
1.1. Appoint a caretaker manager (Butt/ Carrick/ Mckenna).

1.2. Halt the toxic culture in the dressing room, play attacking football, promote deserving youth, drop underperforming players

1.3. Make 2 x signings during the window to overcome obvious issues. 1 x CB, 1 x attacking right player. Try to recall Tunzebe and TFM if possible to strengthen club

1.4. Offload underperforming players to make wage room in the squad, generate funds and reduce the wage bill. Jones, Rojo, Darmian and Valencia are prime candidates

The above takes us to Feb, it should make is fairly competitive again to have a run in the cups and challenge for CL spots. More importantly, it stops the rot, starts addressing the toxic culture that will hinder top players signing/ resigning, stop the damage to the United brand and bring the smile back to fans faces

Phase 2 - Prepare

2.1 Appoint a Director Of Football

2.2. Secure a new manager for the summer. Attack minded, youth orientated and with modern man mgt. skills

2.3. Assess structure of the club. Including scouting and the role of Ed Woodward (replacing him If possible)

2.4. Assess playing staff to determine who is of sufficient quality going forward

2.5. Based on previous step, determine transfer targets and begin 'pre negotiations

3. Implement

3.1. New manager appointed for the summer window

3.2. Offload remainder of underperforming players (e.g. the likes of Lukkaku if he fails to improve)

3.3. Secure transfer targets.

3.4. Begin new season with a clear vision for the team, a future transfer strategy and a positive culture

 

[matt10000]

So 100 m defense addition will solve how shit we are actually in attack?

Absolutely, a reliable defence allows you to attack

 

[Sentient Meat]

!. Fire the cnut.
2. Butt/Carrick interim.
3. Install Pochettino
4. Rebuild
4. Sexy football

Remind me of Tottenham's trophies?

We'll have a happier Pogba and maybe keep Martial.

Whether that translates to titles remains to be seen.

But as I suspected... no one sees a clear vision other than the catharsis of another fresh start

 

[Barca84]

5. Terrible start to next season
6. Manager found to be out of his depth
7. Pogba complains about the style of football
8. United dumped out of the CL and never in the title race by Christmas
9. Pochettino sacked by the end of the season
10. Rinse and repeat

Possibly. Who knows? What we do know is the current manager won't be here next year and Pochettino is a live contender to take over. He's doing a great job where he is and would take the United job

 

[crossy1686]

What CL?

Very true! We don't deserve it to be fair and the annoying this is that the players who've caused it will just leave for another team that's in the CL.

 

[Sentient Meat]

Phase 1 - Stabilise
1.1. Appoint a caretaker manager (Butt/ Carrick/ Mckenna).

1.2. Halt the toxic culture in the dressing room, play attacking football, promote deserving youth, drop underperforming players

1.3. Make 2 x signings during the window to overcome obvious issues. 1 x CB, 1 x attacking right player. Try to recall Tunzebe and TFM if possible to strengthen club

1.4. Offload underperforming players to make wage room in the squad, generate funds and reduce the wage bill. Jones, Rojo, Darmian and Valencia are prime candidates

The above takes us to Feb, it should make is fairly competitive again to have a run in the cups and challenge for CL spots. More importantly, it stops the rot, starts addressing the toxic culture that will hinder top players signing/ resigning, stop the damage to the United brand and bring the smile back to fans faces

Phase 2 - Prepare

2.1 Appoint a Director Of Football

2.2. Secure a new manager for the summer. Attack minded, youth orientated and with modern man mgt. skills

2.3. Assess structure of the club. Including scouting and the role of Ed Woodward (replacing him If possible)

2.4. Assess playing staff to determine who is of sufficient quality going forward

2.5. Based on previous step, determine transfer targets and begin 'pre negotiations

3. Implement

3.1. New manager appointed for the summer window

3.2. Offload remainder of underperforming players (e.g. the likes of Lukkaku if he fails to improve)

3.3. Secure transfer targets.

3.4. Begin new season with a clear vision for the team, a future transfer strategy and a positive culture

So you don't allow for the possibility that it's the players who are also toxic?

I agree with the director of Football idea... but I'm still not seeing a real path to success here.

Maybe Mourinho makes the players feel nervous with his insistence on defensive tactics... but why is it that the safest players like Lukaku and Pogba are playing so terribly?

If they were executing their jobs and scoring, but also protesting... I'd respect the players position a little more.

 

[crossy1686]

Possibly. Who knows? What we do know is the current manager won't be here next year and Pochettino is a live contender to take over. He's doing a great job where he is and would take the United job

This is Mourinho's last season for sure, regardless of what happens between now and the summer. I'm sure he would be but every time his team find themselves in a game where the other team has the momentum, he's failed to deal with it, meaning he either doesn't know how to change a game with tactics or he can't inspire his players to grind out a result. You can absolutely bet that there are more moments like this as a United manager than there ever would be as a Tottenham manager. Good game management is an absolute must for a club like us, where opposition teams see the game as their cup final.

 

[Barca84]

Remind me of Tottenham's trophies?

We'll have a happier Pogba and maybe keep Martial.

Whether that translates to titles remains to be seen.

But as I suspected... no one sees a clear vision other than the catharsis of another fresh start

My post was tongue in cheek to be honest.

People are going in circles here asking the same questions and getting the same answers. Pages, pages and pages of it.

There'll be a new manager next year, hopefully a DoF, and a bit more clarity. One good thing that will come out of this lengthy spell of decline and dreadful football though should be a genuine appreciation for the return of good football when it happens. Pochettino is highly regarded, producing excellent football with limited investment at Spurs, would take the United job and is young. Long term rebuilding is required and although I doubt anyone expects titles in the near future he would be a relatively progressive appointment as a step back towards the top if not the final solution.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

If we get a spanking on Sunday, will the board finally act?

He has his excuse ready, so probably not. Poor old Jose.
https://www.manchestereveningnews.c...l-news/man-utd-injury-news-liverpool-15544691

 

[crossy1686]

They'll be no hiding on Sunday but I suspect Jose will get most of the flack, despite most of our big players not putting a shift in as usual.

 

[Bola]

So you don't allow for the possibility that it's the players who are also toxic?

I agree with the director of Football idea... but I'm still not seeing a real path to success here.

Maybe Mourinho makes the players feel nervous with his insistence on defensive tactics... but why is it that the safest players like Lukaku and Pogba are playing so terribly?

If they were executing their jobs and scoring, but also protesting... I'd respect the players position a little more.

Some of the players could be toxic yes, but it seems the main factor is currently Jose with his constant slating of players in the media and his 'golden goose' policy of not dropping underperforming players (for sustained periods).

If there are players causing a problem in the club, then that would form part of the assessment of whether or not to keep them. 'No one is bigger than the team' is a simple mantra that is perhaps harder to implement in the modern day, but is still an essential principle that any competent manager shpuld be capable of implementing

 

[Craig Ward]

I wonder if someone can give us a step by step sequence of events that they visualize will happen after Mourinho gets fired.

Not just a general we sign Pochettino or Zidane and live happily ever after... but an actual rough outline of what will transpire.

Unless they are prepared to spend hundreds of millions like City... completely redo the defense and switch out Lukaku... I'm not sure what will change.

Tend to agree - we've been short sighted in appointments and transfers since Fergie left and its left us in more of a mess now than when Moyes took over.

I do think a new manager will help, albeit fixing a portion of the issue's. What I mean by this is Mourinho has lost this bunch of players, they aren't playing for him, not following his instructions and not working hard enough. So a new manager will galvanize the majority of players so we would see a turn around in performance.

Long term - we need to up our coaching and scouting massively.

Throwing cash around will help, but only if we spend with logic. The opposite of the Sanchez signing i'd use as an example.

We all know we need to ship certain players out, and top quality signings are required for basically all positions bar GK.

Out of Zidance/Poch, Poch wins it for me. He knows the league, plays a style of football that's easy on the eye and has a history of developing players and making them better.

We cannot continue with Mourinho, for all his history of winning things and insistence he is setting the team up and they're not performing. He has lost the dressing room. He needs to go

 

[Judas]

They'll be no hiding on Sunday but I suspect Jose will get most of the flack, despite most of our big players not putting a shift in as usual.

That's football though, isn't it? Not excusing our terrible team, just saying everyone always looks to the manager after a defeat.

 

[tenpoless]

I have nussing to say.

Probably the most insulting Mourinho insult I've ever seen on RedCafe.

 

[Mainoldo]

He has his excuse ready, so probably not. Poor old Jose.
https://www.manchestereveningnews.c...l-news/man-utd-injury-news-liverpool-15544691

I’m bored of just even listen to him. He’s like an open reply post to people on redcafe. Like what is he even talking about with Matic?

 

[Sentient Meat]

Some of the players could be toxic yes, but it seems the main factor is currently Jose with his constant slating of players in the media and his 'golden goose' policy of not dropping underperforming players (for sustained periods).

If there are players causing a problem in the club, then that would form part of the assessment of whether or not to keep them. 'No one is bigger than the team' is a simple mantra that is perhaps harder to implement in the modern day, but is still an essential trait of any competent manager

Honestly, it's seems like he's cycled through almost every permutation of lineups one could imagine. Maybe he played Matic too much... but as he explained... how can you play Fred when the defense is so sh*t? Maybe he played Lukaku too much... but it's not like Marcus and Jesse were scoring right and left when they were in. Sanchez has been a huge disappointment... you think maybe because there's no Ozil but surely Pogba and Mata should create adequate supply for him.

I get what the other poster said earlier about maybe he's tinkering too much with the lineups... but this is Manchester United... and you guys would complain if he did nothing when players were crap. At some point you have to blame the players for not producing. I don't think Jose says okay... now you can play hard with ten minutes left in the match. Now you are free to move forward. If he is telling them they can't and turning them loose at the end... maybe you can blame him... but they should be playing with that intensity the entire match... not just at the end after they've fallen behind 2-0. I really think people have latched on to this narrative that he's keeping them from attacking... when I see plenty of periods where they do move forward. Maybe some resent having to track back and play defense... but again... that's the players being sabotaging brats. Who knows, maybe Pep gets these guys to play hard... but part of me thinks some of the players with attitude would give Pep the same sh*t.

It will be interesting to see what happens if they change him... but something tells me if with the manager doesn't come new players... we won't see much of a difference... and hopefully this won't turn into something catastrophic.

 

[tenpoless]

He's like Mr. Bean but the retired version.

 

[BlueHaze]

Can't wait til he's gone.

I think 90% of the fanbase can't wait. Then there is always those 10% who will blindly support no matter what because they deep down think that it makes them a better fan than others. I saw these people under Moyes, LVG and now Mourinho. Each to their own but how anyone can support a man who has been given 400m to turn us into a mid table team playing the EXACT same football as a Tony Pulis side is baffling to say the least. If we had proper footballing people in charge then those 400m could and should have made a massive difference but when you have people who sanction deals like 40m for Matic and 75m for the Belgien Nile Ranger then you are digging your own grave.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

I’m bored of just even listen to him. He’s like an open reply post to people on redcafe. Like what is he even talking about with Matic?

I have no idea any more. I honestly think he is starting to lose it, as most of the time, when we play rubbish, he talks absolute gibberish.

 

[Bola]

Honestly, it's seems like he's cycled through almost every permutation of lineups one could imagine. Maybe he played Matic too much... but as he explained... how can you play Fred when the defense is so sh*t? Maybe he played Lukaku too much... but it's not like Marcus and Jesse were scoring right and left when they were in. Sanchez has been a huge disappointment... you think maybe because there's no Ozil but surely Pogba and Mata should create adequate supply for him.

I get what the other poster said earlier about maybe he's tinkering too much with the lineups... but this is Manchester United... and you guys would complain if he did nothing when players were crap. At some point you have to blame the players for not producing. I don't think Jose says okay... now you can play hard with ten minutes left in the match. Now you are free to move forward. If he is telling them they can't and turning them loose at the end... maybe you can blame him... but they should be playing with that intensity the entire match... not just at the end after they've fallen behind 2-0. I really think people have latched on to this narrative that he's keeping them from attacking... when I see plenty of periods where they do move forward. Maybe some resent having to track back and play defense... but again... that's the players being sabotaging brats. Who knows, maybe Pep gets these guys to play hard... but part of me thinks some of the players with attitude would give Pep the same sh*t.

It will be interesting to see what happens if they change him... but something tells me if with the manager doesn't come new players... we won't see much of a difference... and hopefully this won't turn into something catastrophic.

Ultimately, Jose is responsible for the performances at the club and it is his job to create the conditions to thrive. That is not happening and last night was a perfect example - a truly awful selection that lacked width and movement, which was a big factor in a poor performance of a player like Fred

The issues at United are multi-faceted, but Jose is a huge factor. His tactics are negative and cowardly, he is not addressing player morale issues, he accepts poor player standards by continuing to select and the coaching appears non-existent given our lack of attacking organisation

When he goes, there will be a few players who need to go soon after due to either quality or a poor mentality. However, I suspect a new manager will give a much needed boost for the majority or players and we should see them thrive

 

[Moonred]

Very true! We don't deserve it to be fair and the annoying this is that the players who've caused it will just leave for another team that's in the CL.

As long as the biggest elephant in the room is still asked to lead the troops, it's not going to get any better. Been over for a while.

 

[fellaini's barber]

Maybe it isn't but you will struggle to convince me it's better any of the top 4 on paper, even ignoring tactics.

Well, that's why we gave him $400m to get 11 players over 3 seasons. People keep going on about our squad quality as if it's someone else's job. The only way to improve squad quality is to buy players, Jose has done this and only made the team worse, everyone he has bought is crap, so what's next?

 

[Sentient Meat]

Ultimately, Jose is responsible for the performances at the club and it is his job to create the conditions to thrive. That is not happening and last night was a perfect example - a truly awful selection that lacked width and movement, which was a big factor in a poor performance of a player like Fred

The issues at United are multi-faceted, but Jose is a huge factor. His tactics are negative and cowardly, he is not addressing player morale issues, he accepts poor player standards by continuing to select and the coaching appears non-existent given our lack of attacking organisation

When he goes, there will be a few players who need to go soon after due to either quality or a poor mentality. However, I suspect a new manager will give a much needed boost for the majority or players and we should see them thrive

Maybe, but I think football is becoming disturbingly like how basketball is in America where superstar players can get their coaches fired if they don't like how they manage.

Remember when Moyes was afraid to take on players at the end of his tenure? I think it's important that he challenges Pogba and Martial... no matter how talented they are.

I don't think it's an ego thing... although the man clearly has a big one... I truly believe in this case... it's management principles that guide him to butt heads.

Unless you want Pogba running the team... you need to either get rid of him... or get a strong manager who can control him.

All I can say is if you install a yes man... a players manager that caters to the players... then he better produce.

LeBron James and Magic Johnson did this in basketball... but they actually won titles.

 

[Bilbo]

Take a poll of every football manager ever fired by his club, and ask that manager whether he thought the players were doing what they wanted them to do, or whether his squad were good enough. Every one of them will say no.

The excuses for failure we hear from Jose are not unique. The only unique thing is how often we have to listen to them whilst this manager is still in the job.

 

[Greck]

Maybe, but I think football is becoming disturbingly like how basketball is in America where superstar players can get their coaches fired if they don't like how they manage.

Remember when Moyes was afraid to take on players at the end of his tenure? I think it's important that he challenges Pogba and Martial... no matter how talented they are.

I don't think it's an ego thing... although the man clearly has a big one... I truly believe in this case... it's management principles that guide him to butt heads.

Unless you want Pogba running the team... you need to either get rid of him... or get a strong manager who can control him.

All I can say is if you install a yes man... a players manager that caters to the players... then he better produce.

LeBron James and Magic Johnson did this in basketball... but they actually won titles.

No individual player is the reason Jose will get fired. The reasons for his dismissal are on the pitch and the league table, and maybe the shitstirring press conferences

 

[red thru&thru]

I wonder if someone can give us a step by step sequence of events that they visualize will happen after Mourinho gets fired.

Not just a general we sign Pochettino or Zidane and live happily ever after... but an actual rough outline of what will transpire.

Unless they are prepared to spend hundreds of millions like City... completely redo the defense and switch out Lukaku... I'm not sure what will change.

So spending £100m’s on the team AGAIN is your answer?

 

[Zoo]

Jose is like an anchor weighing us down. Or in his speak: he is the virus.

 

[GM K]

Yesterday, all the players some people never stop advocating for, again had their shot at proving Jose wrong for benching them. Again, they flopped. I hope we go back to the line up that played the previous two games. At least most of them put in a good shift.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

The one and only mitigating factor I can think for what looks like Mourinho’s end game is the eery similarity between what we’re watching now and what we saw under Moyes and Van Gaal. It’s kind of fascinating how the team has managed to be so bad, so consistently, in so many similar ways, under three different managers. In fact, let’s not forget, the “zombie football” phrase was coined when Fergie was still at the club!

I definitely want rid of Mourinho. He’s a toxic presence and he’s not going to turn things round. He’ll just keep picking fights, blaming other people and completely wreck any semblance of a team morale at the club. But fecking hell, it really feels like the shit we watched last night is the new normal for Manchester United. A brand of anti-football that will persist no matter who’s in charge. It’s so difficult to be optimistic when the team have been doing the same things wrong, again and again, for the majority of the last decade.

 

[Sentient Meat]

No individual player is the reason Jose will get fired. The reasons for his dismissal are on the pitch and the league table, and maybe the shitstirring press conferences

All I can say when I watch each game... and I've labored through every single one this season... is that I'm mostly annoyed by the players than anything Jose did.

Usually his substitutions and tactics make sense... I suppose he is responsible for the general morale of the team... but when players who in some cases are paid hundreds of thousands of pounds per week to perform, waltz through the game until the 80th minute... the blame in my mind falls mostly on the players.

You can bench them, you can yell at them, you can compliment them... but ultimately these men are professionals who should be doing better.

We'll see what happens when he's gone, but I hope the 90% of you here are right and there is a renaissance... but then I'd think what assholes they were for stealing all that money during Jose's tenure with their half efforts.