Its very hard not to be jealous. And yes I will say it I wish we played like City and Liverpool I wish we could play football like that.
The Mourinho Thread: Should he stay or go? | Sacked
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Some jose fans still use Perisic excuse, they should watch him play this season. Very poor and even last season he was average. At least for once we made good decision in the transfer market.
Excellent post.
Also, if anything it's the "looking beyond the results" where Mourinho fails the most. In the underlying progress is where his work has been extremely poor. The result prior to this season were the only thing slightly in his favour.
I'd say last season was a prime example of people not looking beyond the results. We had won a couple of small trophies in his first season and then finished 2nd. This was supposedly a huge achievement and evidence of his superior management to Klopp who finished lower in the table and reached the CL final.
However if you really want to "look beneath the surface" , Klopp was the one making true progress which is now culminating in a team that's challenging for both the PL and CL whereas we continue to play mediocre footballer under a manager who really isn't going more than managing us with mediocrity.
I couldn't believe the look beyond the results part myself
Those of us who have been criticizing him have been making precisely the point that we need to look beyond the results because, the argument being that the LC, EL and 2nd place finish and the manner with which they were achieved were very misleading and pointed to what we are seeing this year.
Hope he fecks off soon. Worse than Klopp, Pep, Sarri, Emery and Poch. No strategy, no vision, no unity with the Board and players. The past-it cheque-book manager with toxic cnutish personality. Hopefully, Eddy is doing his homework very diligently this time.
I've watched him a lot this season and he has been a joke tbh. So happy we didn't go for this one trick pony
Not only this season, he was last season too apart from very few games. 2016-17 he was good though, after that he had average season and this one is just poor. Somehow we had some luck in the transfer window when it comes to signing from Inter. We were close to signing Sneijder but ended up not signing, he was already on decline and his career shows that. Same with Perisic (maybe he needs different challenge to motivate himself as he is very good for Croatia).
Essentially would have been Matic mk2. But even I thought he was a bit decent back then.
Our scouting leaves a lot to be desired. For all his faults and bad buys, LvG had scouted Mane. And contrary to what Mane said after joining Liverpool, he was desperate to join us and even had to be admonished by Koeman publicly for his mutinous behaviour to force a transfer. How the feck did we miss out on him.
Not a bad read tbh, it's overlaps with what most of us not too thrilled with Mourinho are thinking. No more short term high risky fixes.
Props to the board for not getting fleeced on Maguire and Toby deals as well as not even considering the possibility of Martial and Pogba being sold.
So basically Perišić, Willian and Boateng have turned us down, whilst £75 million was deemed too much for Toby and Maguire.
I am more intrigued of the absence of right wingers from the list.
Well Mourinho did say he's not looking to bring any more attackers in March was it?
Sounds harsh but I honestly feel this way too. I've noticed that when we make a lot of changes to the squad and lots of players who haven't played for him in a while start, like the Arsenal game,we actually play half decent as it seems his tactics haven't fully kicked in,or when we are two goals down and the players abandon tactics and go all out(except when hoofing). Any of his line ups with his prefered regulars play the worst football we've displayed
What I don't get is how people watch these teams play and deduce it's money standing between us and playing that kind of football under Jose. I don't see us playing that type of football if Jose spent another $400m
Which really raises a question of how the hell Woodward Sanctioned his transfer if it was not planned to use him in the right hand side. Just because the deal was cheaper we did it?
The same way we missed out on other crucial signings in the past, with Strootman, Kroos etc etc.
Are you referring to Sanchez? I honestly don't know, I suppose it was a way to get rid of one of Mourinho flop's in Miki, to get a world class, EPL proven player. Don't think the playing position was on Woodward's mind and tbh it shouldn't have been.
It speaks to an incompetent higher management. How could they not have aligned expectations when he signed? You hire a manager like mourinho to bring succes sooner rather than later. If they were not going to support his methods, they have to share a sizeable portion of the blame when his methods fail.
What is worse is that they have clearly realised this disconnect by now, yet persist with their two stools balancing act. What on earth was going on in Woodwards mind when he gave him an extension, in this light?
I reckon Woodward's legacy will ultimately prove to be more damaging to the club than Mourinho’s. It is utterly clueless and you have to wonder how many of the smaller details to build a football operation are simply wholly missing on his watch. I wouldn't be surprised if his successor comes in and finds what amounts to an improvisational skeleton setup in comparison to other big clubs.
The lack of sheer individual quality in that squad keeps getting overlooked as fans bash Mourinho for making players underperform and play poorly.
When Chelsea plays badly Eden Hazard still looks like one of the best players in the Premier League.
When Tottenham plays badly Harry Kane still tops goalscoring statistics in the Premier League.
When Liverpool plays badly Mo Salah still has incredible goal/assist output.
When City plays badly KdB still looks like the best midfielder in the League (think of 15/16).
Why at Manchester United not a single player looks like one of the league's best uh? I'll tell you why, because we have no one on that level.
Some will say Pogba does but do you guys honestly believe putting Pogba's name alongside Kane's,De Bruyne's,Hazard's or Salah's isn't massively overrating him?
When Chelsea plays badly Eden Hazard still looks like one of the best players in the Premier League.
When Tottenham plays badly Harry Kane still tops goalscoring statistics in the Premier League.
When Liverpool plays badly Mo Salah still has incredible goal/assist output.
When City plays badly KdB still looks like the best midfielder in the League (think of 15/16).
Why at Manchester United not a single player looks like one of the league's best uh? I'll tell you why, because we have no one on that level.
Some will say Pogba does but do you guys honestly believe putting Pogba's name alongside Kane's,De Bruyne's,Hazard's or Salah's isn't massively overrating him?
Don't think anyone is trying to absolve Woodward here. He's done atrocious job with his managerial appointments and he should be relieved of any executive power when it comes to making football related decisions, DoF is a must.
But he gave Mourinho a lot of backing, in fact only manager that has had more backing is Guardiola, who spent €100 million more than Mourinho. He has got a great majority of his targets, but he failed to improve any of his signings and arguably any other player.
Think that extension is just mind-boggling tbh, and it highlights Woodward's incompetence, he got scared when he saw Mourinho flirting with PSG. I'm pretty sure he is regretting that decision very much now.
All teams you've mentioned have one thing in common - they all play attacking football. Their managers have implemented their style and philosophy in their teams and they're drilled their tactics into their players. They won't see them play badly that often, it's more of a day off. Also all those managers (bar Sarri I guess, he just joined Chelsea) have managed to improve their players and develop them further.
We play like shiit all the time but we have one world class player saving our arse more often than not - DDG.
Put that same Pogba in any of the teams you've mentioned and he'll look world class like it was the case when he was at Juventus and when he plays for France.
But, apparently the only people that didn't rate him were 'clueless' and 'hated Jose' or something like that....
Yeah, you are right. It’s baffling to me, but I shouldn’t have gone there.
Again, this has been mentioned a lot and I have to disagree. Yesterday’s midfield for Liverpool was Henderson-Milner-Wijnaldum. Players like Matip and Trent (great talent but only a teenager) in defence. And look at how they play. Beat PSG, toe to toe with City, CL final last year. I’m sorry but those players are no better than ours. Arsenal’s squad at OT last week looked to me like a Man United B team. You can make a case for Chelsea not having a proper striker. Nobody has it perfect, bar Pep maybe.
The truth is that all of those teams have a clear path, style, vision, plan. We have none. We are regressing. We scrape through every game. Either lose/draw or win by an oppo mistake or individual quality. When was the last time you sat through a game relaxed and enjoyed United putting a few past other team’s keeper (bar Fulham)?
We spent 150m for Fred and Pogba, how many games to they have together? Put Herrera instead of Matic, can it be any worse? The club has obviously seen something in Bailly and Lindelof, can they actually be allowed to form some kind of a partnership and finally move on from the Smalling-Jones days? Sanchez showed promise as a ST, does anyone think we will see him there again?
We do have players, this is one of the most expensive squads in the world and although they don’t look like one right now I am certain that they are far better than this.
That’s why I said that we would be better with no manager. Because, although harsh, we are not allowed to play to our strenghts nor we ever see our best possible XI. I feel like the manager is pulling the handbrake on this team and I know I am not the only one.
I didn't see a press conference thread, but I read that Jose denied knowing anything about Mendes's statement saying everyone is happy. Suggesting no one is happy.
https://www.standard.co.uk/sport/fo...nt-future-nothing-to-do-with-me-a4014756.html
https://www.standard.co.uk/sport/fo...nt-future-nothing-to-do-with-me-a4014756.html
Forget Mourinho and look at our squad properly. Were lack balance. We don't have an organisational good, aerially dorminamt cb with experience to lead our many young defenders, we dont have any width natural width, We don't have natural attacking fullbacks on either flank, we don't have any attacker apart from Mata comfortable on the right of attack, we dont have a world class natural 10 and last we don't have proper competition for our central forward. That has been our squad since Moyes. Strictly replacing 'decaying players' in the market rather than a tagged strategy of hole removal, department by department.
To top it all we then hired a manager, not known for doing rebuilds, not known for working with young players, not known for working with top heavy ij attack sides, two years into a rebuilding job, never giving him the license to chop and change his squad as he sees fit to fit his style, all whilst expecting him to yield aesthetic results of Klopp or Guardiola.
Unless a) the squad holes are systematically closed with targeted purchasing and then b) a coach suited to 1) the type of player we have and b) we hire a manager suited to a top heavy squad (i.e like a klopp, who builds a side from front to back) Firing Mourinho will solve abdolutely nothing.
I wanted Jose in 2013 and also 2016. I still think there's a top manager in there that has gone astray due largely to problems of his own making.
I'm pretty sure that the United job was a dream for him in 2013 and had he taken over a team of title winners he'd likely have done better. Look at how he came back to Chelsea and turned them back into title winners.
However, it's pretty clear his time at United is up. I can admit this, but I refuse to indulge in some of the odd hate that has been expressed by people in this thread both towards Jose and towards people on this site who have said they wanted to support the manager until he is no longer the manager.
I wonder if people would agree with me that when you use hateful words to criticise a person you see as hateful, you are essentially no better than them. We're all very disappointed with what has happened and I'd be surprised if many united fans genuinely think he will turn it around. That said, he's not going to be sacked until at least March/ April next year or maybe not even until the end of the season if by some miracle we were to make the FA cup final again. No amount of internet anger is going to find its way to Ed Woodward and make him say "oh.. Redcafe want him gone? He's gone then. Cancel my 2pm appointment with that Asian noodle partner"
I'm seriously considering giving the game on Sunday a media blackout and then just looking up the result (expecting 3-0 to Liverpool, but praying for a spammy 0-1 United win). If I do, this will be the first United v Liverpool match I'll have missed watching (mainly on tv or online) in the last 20 odd years. As a United fan of some 36 years (since the age of 7) that I'm even considering this should speak volumes. I'm fed up and I think it's actually only going to get a lot worse before it gets better. I don't trust the owners and their minions to make good decisions with respect to the clubs sporting success and until that changes I see only awful times on the horizon.
I'm pretty sure that the United job was a dream for him in 2013 and had he taken over a team of title winners he'd likely have done better. Look at how he came back to Chelsea and turned them back into title winners.
However, it's pretty clear his time at United is up. I can admit this, but I refuse to indulge in some of the odd hate that has been expressed by people in this thread both towards Jose and towards people on this site who have said they wanted to support the manager until he is no longer the manager.
I wonder if people would agree with me that when you use hateful words to criticise a person you see as hateful, you are essentially no better than them. We're all very disappointed with what has happened and I'd be surprised if many united fans genuinely think he will turn it around. That said, he's not going to be sacked until at least March/ April next year or maybe not even until the end of the season if by some miracle we were to make the FA cup final again. No amount of internet anger is going to find its way to Ed Woodward and make him say "oh.. Redcafe want him gone? He's gone then. Cancel my 2pm appointment with that Asian noodle partner"
I'm seriously considering giving the game on Sunday a media blackout and then just looking up the result (expecting 3-0 to Liverpool, but praying for a spammy 0-1 United win). If I do, this will be the first United v Liverpool match I'll have missed watching (mainly on tv or online) in the last 20 odd years. As a United fan of some 36 years (since the age of 7) that I'm even considering this should speak volumes. I'm fed up and I think it's actually only going to get a lot worse before it gets better. I don't trust the owners and their minions to make good decisions with respect to the clubs sporting success and until that changes I see only awful times on the horizon.
Instead of focussing on what we don't have, once we should focus on what we have and try to get the best out of it in more free flowing way.
I think we rarely concede by losing headers on set pieces. Our problem lies with lack of mobility and fight for first and second balls in the middle, which is a self created problem with team selection and tactics deployed on the pitch. We concede too much space for opposition to penetrate effectively and the defence get exposed without the play being holded easily. If your only way is to expect opposition to make mistakes than you gotta have ball hoggers in the middle at every challenge which certainly is not the case and it doesn't work anymore. We can't even keep the ball for more than 15 seconds with the style mourinho wants them to play, these players are lot better than this. Pretty sure under different tactics we'd look lot better and competitive than we have been.
If we could get in someone to do Ed's job as well financially I would be happy to let him go and replace him with someone who is happy doing his job regarding financial matters and keeping his nose out of the football side of the club.
Cant see this happening though as Ed loves the lime light.
Agree with the posters who say that this squad can play a lot better with the right tactics and right team selection. forget about the wide players. It is not necessary to get wingers to play wide players. We have players who can play in wide positions. Why not play Dalot and Valencia / Young on the right? Why play Matic always? Drop Lukaku and play both Rashford and Martial as the two strikers. Fred, Pogba and Herrera in midfield. Smalling or Bailly, or Rojo in defence.
No, Jose wants to play his way or no way. His way was in the last decade. Not anymore.
He needs to go and we need to get a young manager with a positive mindset. One who can get us to play good football.
No, Jose wants to play his way or no way. His way was in the last decade. Not anymore.
He needs to go and we need to get a young manager with a positive mindset. One who can get us to play good football.
Jose has sold/has tried to sell all of them at some point,coincidence? When you come to think of it,thats 3 out of the PL's best 5 players over the past 2 seasons Jose has once sold or had issues with.
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Again, there's a big difference between what a pundit says and a player whose contracted by the club. This isn't controversial or difficult to understand.
Now you're just rewriting history, Pogba was dropped for turning up late to training twice in 1 week under Conte and complained that goals make him forget about the rest of the game. There was plenty of tough man management and criticism.
Deschamps also subbed him off in the last qualifiers pre world cup because of bad performances and said he wouldn't make him captain.
Because they already had Marchisio who was playing more minutes than Pirlo then signed Khedira from Real Madrid the summer he retired. Along with Dybala/Sandro/Mandzukic signed the same summer, to compliment the best defence in world football.
Crazy talk. Their front 6 was carried by Pogba and Dybala. In fact the rest of the midfield was rotated with him being the only guaranteed started.
What does the fraud have them do in training? They constantly look as if they've never been on a pitch together before
Yeh. We need to see the bigger picture, and not just short term fix. That's what Sir Alex did, and United reaped the reward for decades.
Pogba's rise to prominence at Juventus was astonomical at a time Juventus had a CM who had more talent then the majority of players Mourinho bought on our behalf put together. Also note that Pogba was 19 when that incident happened. Sir Alex caught Giggs at around the same age, with alcohol in his hands. That's doesn't mean that either of them were trouble.
Every club that underperforms like this, the manager is sacked and blame is squarely on his shoulder.
Why are we the only club where this doesn't happen? I see people cussing out every single player in our squad...they're not all garbage and it's pretty damn plain to see why they're playing poorly. The buck stops with the manager.
He has literally not one redeeming factor, nor is he showing potential or even respect for the club. Looking back on it he should have gone after Sevilla.
Why are we the only club where this doesn't happen? I see people cussing out every single player in our squad...they're not all garbage and it's pretty damn plain to see why they're playing poorly. The buck stops with the manager.
He has literally not one redeeming factor, nor is he showing potential or even respect for the club. Looking back on it he should have gone after Sevilla.
A new manager might improve some of the players or help them improve?
This manager is in his third season and doesn't know his - best eleven, his preferred formation, playing style and has managed to alienate our best players in the process. Almost any other club would have gotten rid months ago.
Complete has been of a manager.
And he's been 1 since 2013.
And he's been 1 since 2013.
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