The Mourinho Thread: Should he stay or go? | Sacked

[matt10000]

I was around back then and didnt want Fergie out, so not sure what you're getting at. And I can't really agree with much of what you say. United didnt have loads of cash back then, as is well documented of the era. Indeed he was running a profit on transfers up til the 98-99 season. He didnt inherit the class of 92 and get lucky, we'd won the title twice by the time they arrived in the first team, and they only arrived at all because he completely revamped the youth academy in the late 80s. As for his (senior) purchases, in his first 3 seasons he bought

Brian McClair
Steve Bruce
Jim Leighton
Mal Donoghy
Lee Sharpe
Ralph Miline
Mark Huges
Gary Pallister
Neil Webb
Paul Ince
Danny Wallace
Mike Phelan

By my reckoning that's 1 famous failure, 2 journeymen, 3 good players and 6 fantastic buys that would eventually take us to the title. I'd kill for that hit rate now. Fergie made plenty of mistakes but the foundational work he was doing back then was apparent even at the time, and that was what kept him in the job til he won the Cup in 90.

In SAF first 3 seasons he made 12 signings.

Of those 12 signings 4 of them did not play a full league game in the first title winning season.

So the fact is 1 out of every 3 signings during the rebuild period were not an integral part of the final rebuilt successful squad.

Brian McClair 41(1)
Steve Bruce 42
Jim Leighton NA
Mal Donoghy NA
Lee Sharpe 27
Ralph Miline NA
Mark Hughes 41
Gary Pallister 42
Neil Webb 0(1)
Paul Ince 41
Danny Wallace 0(2)
Mike Phelan 5(6)

This is no criticism of SAF, I am just pointing out that he was allowed the time and space to experiment in order to work out his winning formula.

 

[RooneyLegend]

Former players can say whatever they want, they aren't contracted by the club and owe nothing to the manager. Former players aren't in the changing room while tactical instructions are being handed out either, pogba is and his comments make it look like Mourinho is setting us up to be too defensive.

When Pogba plays for Deschamps he has the luxury of having Umtiti/Varane/Kante behind him, at Juve he had the best defensive line in world football along with Pirlo/Vidal. His weaknesses were made up for. And let's not act like it's been all rosy for Pogba in either camp, he was taken off in games before the world cup because of really poor performances and their was a huge debate about his role/position in the team.

Cool story and all but Pogba was great for Juve even after Vidal and Pirlo left. In fact he had his best season after they left.

 

[RooneyLegend]

In SAF first 3 seasons he made 12 signings.

Of those 12 signings 4 of them did not play a full league game in the first title winning season.

So the fact is 1 out of every 3 signings during the rebuild period were not an integral part of the final rebuilt successful squad.

Brian McClair 41(1)
Steve Bruce 42
Jim Leighton NA
Mal Donoghy NA
Lee Sharpe 27
Ralph Miline NA
Mark Hughes 41
Gary Pallister 42
Neil Webb 0(1)
Paul Ince 41
Danny Wallace 0(2)
Mike Phelan 5(6)

This is no criticism of SAF, I am just pointing out that he was allowed the time and space to experiment in order to work out his winning formula.

Those were punts. The issue with Jose is none of his big signings are succeeding at this point.

 

[SteveW]

Can't be bothered writing a response to all this but @EwanI Ted is spot on here. Thanks for setting this straight and I'm sure saving I'm sure many other posters the trouble of correcting some this nonsense being spouted.

Jose has done nothing here to merit any comparison to the great man.

 

[Stactix]

In SAF first 3 seasons he made 12 signings.

Of those 12 signings 4 of them did not play a full league game in the first title winning season.

So the fact is 1 out of every 3 signings during the rebuild period were not an integral part of the final rebuilt successful squad.

Brian McClair 41(1)
Steve Bruce 42
Jim Leighton NA
Mal Donoghy NA
Lee Sharpe 27
Ralph Miline NA
Mark Hughes 41
Gary Pallister 42
Neil Webb 0(1)
Paul Ince 41
Danny Wallace 0(2)
Mike Phelan 5(6)

This is no criticism of SAF, I am just pointing out that he was allowed the time and space to experiment in order to work out his winning formula.

Mourinho has never lasted more than 3 full seasons in his entire career and the only time he lasted longer than 3 he was sacked in September.
He still lives in a hotel for crying outloud.
This season, despite it being his 3rd season with the 2nd most expensive squad in the league. Utd are worse than when he took over?

Regardless of Fergusons failures, did he ever once give up on a season before a ball was kicked? Mourinho did this season.
'Utd fans should get ready for a bad season'
While Utd finished above Pochs Spurs last season, they also spent and brought Fred/Dalot in. Spurs brought no players. Did Poch have a meltdown and sabotage team linesups to send a message to the board?
Is Poch causing regular drama & falling out with players?

I'd not be against Mourinho if he had said something along the lines ' This is what we've got and you can damn well quote me, we're going to make the best of it.'
If he didn't win the league or even challenge at the end of the season he could of then said to Woody, I did my best now if you want a title give me some money.
Instead, he gave up before a ball was kicked and you think we should give him time and money? When he has had 400mill and almost all of that appears to of been wasted.
When he has had 3 seasons and the team are playing worse than when he first arrived, the results are worse, the toxicity is worse.

Even if we give him the time and money to build, how long before another meltdown occurs? Did he need time and money to rebuild at Chelsea after winning the league title, guess he did as they were happily in 16th. Although they did then win the league the following season too.

Mourinho isn't on the same level as the Mourinho at Chelsea in his first stint. Not by a long shot.

 

[Fracture90]

@matt10000 you're disregarding some very important facts.

SAF was a young, success hungry manager that had, from day one, put an emphasis on reviving the academy and working with youth. Mourinho has his best years behind him and he was never a one for rebuilding, he was always hailed as a quick success kind of guy.

In time when SAF took over, UTD was a shadow of its former self, haven't won the title in 20+ years and was behind Liverpool. Mourinho took over the most successful club in England and one of the juggernauts of world football.

SAF had shown willingness and desire to work with youth, whilst Mourinho throughout his career was mostly relying on already established players. Then there's the financial aspect as well.

Mourinho has never spent more than 3 years at any club, nor has he ever rebuilt any team, whilst SAF had spent 8 years in Aberdeen prior to coming to UTD.

 

[IronCroos37]

go go go

 

[EwanI Ted]

In SAF first 3 seasons he made 12 signings.

Of those 12 signings 4 of them did not play a full league game in the first title winning season.

So the fact is 1 out of every 3 signings during the rebuild period were not an integral part of the final rebuilt successful squad.

Brian McClair 41(1)
Steve Bruce 42
Jim Leighton NA
Mal Donoghy NA
Lee Sharpe 27
Ralph Miline NA
Mark Hughes 41
Gary Pallister 42
Neil Webb 0(1)
Paul Ince 41
Danny Wallace 0(2)
Mike Phelan 5(6)

This is no criticism of SAF, I am just pointing out that he was allowed the time and space to experiment in order to work out his winning formula.

That hardly contradicts my point, his hit rate for successes in those early years was pretty remarkble even by your measure. Also when you consider Webb, Wallace and Phelan all started the FA Cup Final(s) in 1990, I agree they weren't club legends but they were far from failures. So I really fail to see who these many failures were.

But still, the overall point is that there was a sense of progress, even if it was frustrating. It was certainly one step forward one backwards as we struggled with consistency in those days, but the training facilities, training regimes, club culture, first team squad, academy & scouting were all clearly improved under Fergie. That meant there was a debate to be had about Fergie's long term prospects back then - would these improvements eventually bear fruit on the pitch?

But as I said above, I dont see how the situation is comparable to Mourinho, because Mourinho's not building for the long term. What exactly has Mourinho done that makes his situation comparable to SAF back then, other than having a poor league campaign? Why do we compare him to SAF rather than, say, Ron Atkinson another results manager who had to go once results dried up?

 

[Schneckerl]

Can we please stop comparing what SAF and Mou were 'allowed' to do transfer wise?
Mourinho got a player for the World Record transfer fee FFS, in SAF's early pyears that was money spent on Maradona, Gullit and Baggio.

 

[haram]

I was damn surprised to see mourinho not bringing in kante and mane here. He lost his plot there and then.

He wasn't even our manager when Mane moved to Liverpool

 

[roonster09]

He wasn't even our manager when Mane moved to Liverpool

He was.

 

[haram]

He was.

Mane was signed in June 2016. Mourinho was unveiled July 2016.

 

[roonster09]

Mane was signed in June 2016. Mourinho was unveiled July 2016.

On 27 May 2016, Mourinho signed a three-year contract with Manchester United, with an option to stay at the club until at least 2020.

 

[Patrick08]

Mane was signed in June 2016. Mourinho was unveiled July 2016.

, He was a year long target of LVG for this club. And surely mourinho knew which club he is signing for and what player could fulfil his tactics on the right side for the profile a player requires to play as a second full back for majority of the game he wants them to play. Mkh was clearly a poor choice if he thought he was the one.

 

[haram]

On 27 May 2016, Mourinho signed a three-year contract with Manchester United, with an option to stay at the club until at least 2020.

You are right, unveiling and the signing of the contract were separate.

 

[haram]

, He was a year long target of LVG for this club. And surely mourinho knew which club he is signing for and what player could fulfil his tactics on the right side for the profile a player requires to play as a second full back for majority of the game he wants them to play. Mkh was clearly a poor choice if he thought he was the one.

I thought Mane said we made an offer for him when van Gaal was manager, and that he rejected it.

 

[Kearnkoff69]

He was United's target. He was Chelsea's top target. He was apparently the best striker who was "available" in that window.

I know Mourinho has to shoulder a lot of blame because he sanctioned the deal. But it was impossible to predict back then that he would turn out to be so bad.

Strikers are a hit or a miss thing. Just look at Torres, Sanchez, Morata, Shevchenko, Lukaku. Every one in that list was supposedly a "top buy".

Again, to reiterate, Mourinho deserves the sack, but he can't be held responsible for everything that goes wrong in the club. The rot runs deeper.

Strikers aren't a hit or miss thing, that narrative only looks like it's true because genuinely top strikers don't often move clubs, because they're so valuable that a parent club won't let one go without enormous remuneration.

Of the strikers you listed, Torres is the only one who looked like a 100% sure thing and completely flopped. Lukaku was not considered a "top buy" by any coherent public opinion (and certainly not on the Caf). Morata had a couple of promising seasons and "a lot of potential" but was by no means the finished product. Sanchez had question marks about his form and his ability to continue producing at a high level, and was thought to be a reinforcement for our flank, not as a true striker. Shevchenko was 30 when he joined Chelsea - right at the back end of his prime, and for a striker who relied at least partially on his work ethic and pace, right when he hit the age when the body generally starts to deteriorate much quicker. For reference, we bought RVP when he was 29. His first year was stellar. His second year was good but not brilliant. And then he fell off a cliff.

 

[El Presidente]

Honestly, at this point I believe that every ‘Mourinho In’ or ‘Mourinho needs more time’ poster has below average IQ.

The comparisons with Ferguson are laughable.
After 3 years we are in a worse situation compared to his first day.

• His results this season are atrocious
• His performances have always been atrocious
• His man-management is a disaster, actually harmful, not helpful
• His transfer spending is atrocious. Buys them, then benches them. And 75m for Lukaku is a sackable offence
• We can’t defend
• Can’t attack
• Can’t midfield
• Our few actually top footballers all want to leave at this point

And there are so many more arguments ‘against’ that I’m not bothered to mention. But there is not a single sane argument ‘for’.

At this point, I do believe that we will be better with no manager. I’m not talking about interim coach or something that. I mean, literally sack the guy, replace him with a cactus, and this team will be better.

 

[Lentwood]

I was around back then and didnt want Fergie out, so not sure what you're getting at. And I can't really agree with much of what you say. United didnt have loads of cash back then, as is well documented of the era. Indeed he was running a profit on transfers up til the 98-99 season. He didnt inherit the class of 92 and get lucky, we'd won the title twice by the time they arrived in the first team, and they only arrived at all because he completely revamped the youth academy in the late 80s. As for his (senior) purchases, in his first 3 seasons he bought

Brian McClair
Steve Bruce
Jim Leighton
Mal Donoghy
Lee Sharpe
Ralph Miline
Mark Huges
Gary Pallister
Neil Webb
Paul Ince
Danny Wallace
Mike Phelan

By my reckoning that's 1 famous failure, 2 journeymen, 3 good players and 6 fantastic buys that would eventually take us to the title. I'd kill for that hit rate now. Fergie made plenty of mistakes but the foundational work he was doing back then was apparent even at the time, and that was what kept him in the job til he won the Cup in 90.

You say we should look beyond the results, I totally agree. I see no such rebuilding work happening at United under Jose, and that's precisely why I think he's done. On the pitch there's no signs of long term development. We have no discernable style of play, no signs of us taking on any of the modern styles of football that are proving so effective. The squad is a bit of a mishmash at the mo and he's continually struggled to motivate them. And his only solution seems to be offering more of the same. Off the pitch is nothing to do with Mourinho and he shows no interest in doing it anyway, so nothing there can be said to support his continued stay.

I mean, if you can point to anything that suggests that Mourinho has a long term plan in place and he's inching towards it for the overall betterment of the club, however slowly, then let me know. Because right now I dont see anything of the sort.

I believe Jose was building something and was on the right path until the infamous fall-out this summer.

Last season we finished 2nd, beat every side in the league at least once and reached the FA Cup Final so it’s pretty difficult to argue that’s not a fantastic season given where we had been over the previous four years

Then in the Summer Jose goes to the Board and asks for an investment in CBs which isn’t forthcoming. Ed publicly came out and stated that Maguire wasn’t better than what we had, Boateng was injured too often, Alderwerield was too old and that the club had ‘tried’ to sign Varane (pipe dream).

Now who is Ed to tell Jose who is and who is not good enough to be signed by Manchester Utd? What footballing credentials does Ed have? Who is advising him? How demoralising must that be as a manager? You drag a (let’s face it) sub-standard squad into 2nd place and look forward to a Summer of spending to add the players you feel you need to push for trophies. Instead of that you spend less than Fulham and get no players in your priority position.

Now I grant that Jose handled that badly. The repercussions of his comments over the Summer about how poor some of our players are is still coming back to bite him, I feel. But Jose is a winner. He didn’t come to the club to chase top four and then for the club to rest on its laurels when it’s perceived to be in a ‘safe’ position. We shouldn’t accept that either as fans.

My point is, if we aren’t careful, we’ll end up with a manager who DOESN’T challenge the Board, someone who is happy to finish 4th and take the plaudits for doing so on a shoestring and that for me will be the nail in our coffin. I accepted Jose was a dead-man walking months ago and tbh I don’t care any more or less than I did when LvG was dumped. I just think people should be careful whh they wish for because I don’t see anything get any better for a long time yet with money men running the club and clearly interfering in footballing decisions

 

[Sassy Colin]

Honestly, at this point I believe that every ‘Mourinho In’ or ‘Mourinho needs more time’ poster has below average IQ.

The comparisons with Ferguson are laughable.
After 3 years we are in a worse situation compared to his first day.

• His results this season are atrocious
• His performances have always been atrocious
• His man-management is a disaster, actually harmful, not helpful
• His transfer spending is atrocious. Buys them, then benches them. And 75m for Lukaku is a sackable offence
• We can’t defend
• Can’t attack
• Can’t midfield
• Our few actually top footballers all want to leave at this point

And there are so many more arguments ‘against’ that I’m not bothered to mention. But there is not a single sane argument ‘for’.

At this point, I do believe that we will be better with no manager. I’m not talking about interim coach or something that. I mean, literally sack the guy, replace him with a cactus, and this team will be better.

Spoiler

 

[Bilbo]

I just think people should be careful whh they wish for because I don’t see anything get any better for a long time yet with money men running the club and clearly interfering in footballing decisions

None of our 'money men' are interfering in football decisions. They aren't picking the team, or telling Mourinho that he has to play anybody. It appears to me that he has almost complete freedom to run this football team how he see fit.

If by interfering you mean that they are questioning his transfer targets, well yes of course they are. It would be ridiculous if they weren't. His track record in bringing players to the club has been questionable.

 

[FrantikChicken]

Honestly, at this point I believe that every ‘Mourinho In’ or ‘Mourinho needs more time’ poster has below average IQ.

The comparisons with Ferguson are laughable.
After 3 years we are in a worse situation compared to his first day.

• His results this season are atrocious
• His performances have always been atrocious
• His man-management is a disaster, actually harmful, not helpful
• His transfer spending is atrocious. Buys them, then benches them. And 75m for Lukaku is a sackable offence
• We can’t defend
• Can’t attack
• Can’t midfield
• Our few actually top footballers all want to leave at this point

And there are so many more arguments ‘against’ that I’m not bothered to mention. But there is not a single sane argument ‘for’.

At this point, I do believe that we will be better with no manager. I’m not talking about interim coach or something that. I mean, literally sack the guy, replace him with a cactus, and this team will be better.

It's funny that you'd think people have low iq and then go on to use arguments based on tabloid stories to prove your point.

If Mourinho were sacked tomorrow, I'd fully accept it and understand it, but I still think that he and the team can turn things around. The board seem to think so as well, but I reckon they also have low iq.

 

[PepsiCola]

It's funny that you'd think people have low iq and then go on to use arguments based on tabloid stories to prove your point.

If Mourinho were sacked tomorrow, I'd fully accept it and understand it, but I still think that he and the team can turn things around. The board seem to think so as well, but I reckon they also have low iq.

I'm convinced they do

 

[Patrick08]

I thought Mane said we made an offer for him when van Gaal was manager, and that he rejected it.

And mourinho never went back, or was beaten by klopp. What does it tell about Mourinho? Football fans can easily draw conclusions out of it.

 

[El Presidente]

It's funny that you'd think people have low iq and then go on to use arguments based on tabloid stories to prove your point.

If Mourinho were sacked tomorrow, I'd fully accept it and understand it, but I still think that he and the team can turn things around. The board seem to think so as well, but I reckon they also have low iq.

I don’t think they believe in him. Otherwise, he would have been backed in the market. The only reason he’s here is because of the compensation they will owe him.

After all the digs at the board and the moaning (is that tabloid BS, too?) no sane director would have kept him, especially given the lack of progress.

And if by ‘low iq’ when it comes to the board, you mean ‘footballing iq’, then feck yeah, theirs is low. Can’t argue they know how to make money, though.

 

[Aloysius's Back 3]

Jose's falling out with the board came because of the handling of Martial when Sanchez was bought in.

It was clear to every single person with 2 eyes & a brain that there is favouritism towards certain players & an inability to get the best out of the players that he has got.

And that is not necessarily because they are rubbish - just that Jose does not want to do it.

Was seen with Bailly, Lindelof, Rashford, Martial, Lukaku, Pogba, Shaw etc.

Jose got us to 2nd last year - which was his traditional title winning season by getting all the players to work hard defensively whether than gets the best out of the players are not. Doing that for more than a season or 2 is never going to be all that positive is it?

Hell iniesta may be able to drop back & play in deep midfield for a season - but doing it for more than that is just going to be a drainage of energy that no one can keep up. Just an example but an example that can be seen by players that wouldn't fit Jose's traditional tactics to a tee.

Jose getting a CB doesn't resolve the rest of the problems for the team. Delusion - to think aldeweireld is getting Sanchez, Lukaku, Rashford Lindelof Bailly, Pogba on form - just papering over crack by getting a short term fix.

 

[Chesterlestreet]

...but I still think that he and the team can turn things around.

Anything’s possible. Seems unlikely, though, at least if by “turn around” you mean actually getting back on track towards becoming – well – a top team.

I think Jose tried to do what he’s famous for (build a strong side fast – win big) – but failed for various reasons. We’re now in uncharted waters. And I suspect the man at the helm either doesn’t know where we’re going – or he doesn’t give a feck anymore (that is, he doesn't give a feck about anything beyond protecting his own reputation).

If the above is true, we’re better off with the cactus mentioned above – because Mourinho isn’t going to salvage anything from this season if he’s in meltdown mode (or anywhere near it).

 

[Isotope]

I believe Jose was building something and was on the right path until the infamous fall-out this summer.

Last season we finished 2nd, beat every side in the league at least once and reached the FA Cup Final so it’s pretty difficult to argue that’s not a fantastic season given where we had been over the previous four years

Then in the Summer Jose goes to the Board and asks for an investment in CBs which isn’t forthcoming. Ed publicly came out and stated that Maguire wasn’t better than what we had, Boateng was injured too often, Alderwerield was too old and that the club had ‘tried’ to sign Varane (pipe dream).

Now who is Ed to tell Jose who is and who is not good enough to be signed by Manchester Utd? What footballing credentials does Ed have? Who is advising him? How demoralising must that be as a manager? You drag a (let’s face it) sub-standard squad into 2nd place and look forward to a Summer of spending to add the players you feel you need to push for trophies. Instead of that you spend less than Fulham and get no players in your priority position.

Now I grant that Jose handled that badly. The repercussions of his comments over the Summer about how poor some of our players are is still coming back to bite him, I feel. But Jose is a winner. He didn’t come to the club to chase top four and then for the club to rest on its laurels when it’s perceived to be in a ‘safe’ position. We shouldn’t accept that either as fans.

My point is, if we aren’t careful, we’ll end up with a manager who DOESN’T challenge the Board, someone who is happy to finish 4th and take the plaudits for doing so on a shoestring and that for me will be the nail in our coffin. I accepted Jose was a dead-man walking months ago and tbh I don’t care any more or less than I did when LvG was dumped. I just think people should be careful whh they wish for because I don’t see anything get any better for a long time yet with money men running the club and clearly interfering in footballing decisions

Who's responsible for that with 350+ m of investment in two years, and gigantic bill of wages again?? And let's be honest here, with a shit on stick, rich-man Pulis Stoke style also.

 

[AlexUTD]

Honestly, at this point I believe that every ‘Mourinho In’ or ‘Mourinho needs more time’ poster has below average IQ.

The comparisons with Ferguson are laughable.
After 3 years we are in a worse situation compared to his first day.

• His results this season are atrocious
• His performances have always been atrocious
• His man-management is a disaster, actually harmful, not helpful
• His transfer spending is atrocious. Buys them, then benches them. And 75m for Lukaku is a sackable offence
• We can’t defend
• Can’t attack
• Can’t midfield
• Our few actually top footballers all want to leave at this point

And there are so many more arguments ‘against’ that I’m not bothered to mention. But there is not a single sane argument ‘for’.

At this point, I do believe that we will be better with no manager. I’m not talking about interim coach or something that. I mean, literally sack the guy, replace him with a cactus, and this team will be better.

I am Mourinho out, but saying that people have low iq if they are Mourinho in is ridicolous! Lowest form for discussion when you get personal.

 

[redIndianDevil]

I believe Jose was building something and was on the right path until the infamous fall-out this summer.

Last season we finished 2nd, beat every side in the league at least once and reached the FA Cup Final so it’s pretty difficult to argue that’s not a fantastic season given where we had been over the previous four years

Then in the Summer Jose goes to the Board and asks for an investment in CBs which isn’t forthcoming. Ed publicly came out and stated that Maguire wasn’t better than what we had, Boateng was injured too often, Alderwerield was too old and that the club had ‘tried’ to sign Varane (pipe dream).

Now who is Ed to tell Jose who is and who is not good enough to be signed by Manchester Utd? What footballing credentials does Ed have? Who is advising him? How demoralising must that be as a manager? You drag a (let’s face it) sub-standard squad into 2nd place and look forward to a Summer of spending to add the players you feel you need to push for trophies. Instead of that you spend less than Fulham and get no players in your priority position.

Now I grant that Jose handled that badly. The repercussions of his comments over the Summer about how poor some of our players are is still coming back to bite him, I feel. But Jose is a winner. He didn’t come to the club to chase top four and then for the club to rest on its laurels when it’s perceived to be in a ‘safe’ position. We shouldn’t accept that either as fans.

My point is, if we aren’t careful, we’ll end up with a manager who DOESN’T challenge the Board, someone who is happy to finish 4th and take the plaudits for doing so on a shoestring and that for me will be the nail in our coffin. I accepted Jose was a dead-man walking months ago and tbh I don’t care any more or less than I did when LvG was dumped. I just think people should be careful whh they wish for because I don’t see anything get any better for a long time yet with money men running the club and clearly interfering in footballing decisions

If you seriously believed that then you are a moron. We had a good start to the season and after January we were utter rubbish getting by with parking the bus and De Gea saving our asses. There was no discernible improvement in our passing or movement or pressing or playing like a team. The only positive things happening were Martial and Rashford banging them in and even that was broken by Mourinho buying Sanchez needlessly in January.

 

[Patrick08]

Mourinho buying Sanchez needlessly in January.

Could have played on the right.

 

[Stactix]

I believe Jose was building something and was on the right path until the infamous fall-out this summer.

Last season we finished 2nd, beat every side in the league at least once and reached the FA Cup Final so it’s pretty difficult to argue that’s not a fantastic season given where we had been over the previous four years

Then in the Summer Jose goes to the Board and asks for an investment in CBs which isn’t forthcoming. Ed publicly came out and stated that Maguire wasn’t better than what we had, Boateng was injured too often, Alderwerield was too old and that the club had ‘tried’ to sign Varane (pipe dream).

Now who is Ed to tell Jose who is and who is not good enough to be signed by Manchester Utd? What footballing credentials does Ed have? Who is advising him? How demoralising must that be as a manager? You drag a (let’s face it) sub-standard squad into 2nd place and look forward to a Summer of spending to add the players you feel you need to push for trophies. Instead of that you spend less than Fulham and get no players in your priority position.

Now I grant that Jose handled that badly. The repercussions of his comments over the Summer about how poor some of our players are is still coming back to bite him, I feel. But Jose is a winner. He didn’t come to the club to chase top four and then for the club to rest on its laurels when it’s perceived to be in a ‘safe’ position. We shouldn’t accept that either as fans.

My point is, if we aren’t careful, we’ll end up with a manager who DOESN’T challenge the Board, someone who is happy to finish 4th and take the plaudits for doing so on a shoestring and that for me will be the nail in our coffin. I accepted Jose was a dead-man walking months ago and tbh I don’t care any more or less than I did when LvG was dumped. I just think people should be careful whh they wish for because I don’t see anything get any better for a long time yet with money men running the club and clearly interfering in footballing decisions

Poor Mourinho, didn't get his signings in the summer so he took his team to 16th after winning the title the previous season.
I highly doubt Ed made the decision to say they aren't good enough, he does have advisors..
This meltdown would of happened even if we'd got Maguire, Alder and Boateng all in a neatly wrapped package. That is Mourinho for you.
One thing is more guranteed with him than results and that IS drama. Whereever he goes, it happens regularly. Period.

Come summer Utd could very likely lose players like De Gea, Pogba, Periera & possibly Martial.
While Liverpool & City, got new managers in. The former spent less, the latter spent more both play very good football and are getting unprescendented amounts of points in the league. If that stat is correct even Ferguson didn't hit this point tally at this stage of the season.. Despite spending crazy amounts of money, virtually only Ibra can be considered a success and he was a fecking free signing ffs. The rest have all been inconsistent, frustrating or shite.

It's this simple, give Mourinho 500mill, give him a fecking billion. Utd will not be competing with this City team in goals or entertainment, hell Utds still probably be closer to relegation than City.
This team is going nowhere with Mourinho even if he turns it around, the football is still going to be shite and we're going to be at constant risk of another explosion.

One thing though that is hilarious, is that people have started praising Arsenal/ Liverpool boards.. They're even worse than ours ffs.

 

[FrantikChicken]

I don’t think they believe in him. Otherwise, he would have been backed in the market. The only reason he’s here is because of the compensation they will owe him.

After all the digs at the board and the moaning (is that tabloid BS, too?) no sane director would have kept him, especially given the lack of progress.

And if by ‘low iq’ when it comes to the board, you mean ‘footballing iq’, then feck yeah, theirs is low. Can’t argue they know how to make money, though.

So you state financial reasons as to why he isn't sacked but then mention that they know how to make money. Staying in the top 4 this season would see us make a lot more money in the long run compared to the compensation they owe him. Everyone knows this, and it's obviously not the reason he hasn't been sacked. It's way too simplistic of a view regarding the whole situation.

 

[FrantikChicken]

Anything’s possible. Seems unlikely, though, at least if by “turn around” you mean actually getting back on track towards becoming – well – a top team.

I think Jose tried to do what he’s famous for (build a strong side fast – win big) – but failed for various reasons. We’re now in uncharted waters. And I suspect the man at the helm either doesn’t know where we’re going – or he doesn’t give a feck anymore (that is, he doesn't give a feck about anything beyond protecting his own reputation).

If the above is true, we’re better off with the cactus mentioned above – because Mourinho isn’t going to salvage anything from this season if he’s in meltdown mode (or anywhere near it).

I think he cares. He's got a winner's attitude and I'm certain that this season is eating him alive from the inside. Whether he can turn it around is a whole separate question but so far I choose to believe that he can do it. If he gets sacked, then that's fully understandable too

 

[Stactix]

I think he cares. He's got a winner's attitude and I'm certain that this season is eating him alive from the inside. Whether he can turn it around is a whole separate question but so far I choose to believe that he can do it. If he gets sacked, then that's fully understandable too

Clearly not learned from his mistakes seeing as it happened at his last club too.

 

[EwanI Ted]

I believe Jose was building something and was on the right path until the infamous fall-out this summer.

Last season we finished 2nd, beat every side in the league at least once and reached the FA Cup Final so it’s pretty difficult to argue that’s not a fantastic season given where we had been over the previous four years

Then in the Summer Jose goes to the Board and asks for an investment in CBs which isn’t forthcoming. Ed publicly came out and stated that Maguire wasn’t better than what we had, Boateng was injured too often, Alderwerield was too old and that the club had ‘tried’ to sign Varane (pipe dream).

Now who is Ed to tell Jose who is and who is not good enough to be signed by Manchester Utd? What footballing credentials does Ed have? Who is advising him? How demoralising must that be as a manager? You drag a (let’s face it) sub-standard squad into 2nd place and look forward to a Summer of spending to add the players you feel you need to push for trophies. Instead of that you spend less than Fulham and get no players in your priority position.

Now I grant that Jose handled that badly. The repercussions of his comments over the Summer about how poor some of our players are is still coming back to bite him, I feel. But Jose is a winner. He didn’t come to the club to chase top four and then for the club to rest on its laurels when it’s perceived to be in a ‘safe’ position. We shouldn’t accept that either as fans.

My point is, if we aren’t careful, we’ll end up with a manager who DOESN’T challenge the Board, someone who is happy to finish 4th and take the plaudits for doing so on a shoestring and that for me will be the nail in our coffin. I accepted Jose was a dead-man walking months ago and tbh I don’t care any more or less than I did when LvG was dumped. I just think people should be careful whh they wish for because I don’t see anything get any better for a long time yet with money men running the club and clearly interfering in footballing decisions

That is at least an argument for Mourinho on the merits of his own performance, rather than looking to invoke Fergie.

For what it’s worth it’s not an argument I can get behind. I agree the Board should have backed Jose this summer with whatever players they could get, within financial reason. However our alarming fall in form this season cannot be explained by the lack of a centre back with the quality of Boateng or Maguire.

A more compelling explanation for me is that what we’ve seen this season is a natural consequence of Mourinho’s style of management. He goes in, buys players who can give him an immediate boost and then uses a combination of high tension challenge and provocation to eek out a short term burst of form. Usually it works, if he doesn’t win the league first time round he usually gets it in the second season. This time round we had a boost in our second season, albeit there was a gulf to City and the football was pretty poor for half the season, but points total wise it was a big improvement.

But in three of his last four jobs it’s fallen apart in the third season (and in the other he didn’t stay three, the team falling apart anyway) and it seems to be here too. For whatever reason the players don’t respond well by that point. Hard to see his fallout with Pogba being much different to Costa or Ramos. Maybe you can only whip the horse so much. It’s all happened too often to be coincidence in my view. There’s no evidence that a couple of extra players in the summer would have avoided this.

There’s no precedent for him staying on and building another team at the same club because he’s never done it before, but it stands to reason that it’ll be hard to replicate the sensation of going into a new club all over again. If players aren’t responding to him any more, as they clearly aren’t, then what? A new first 11?

He’s a manager whose modus operandi is a three year or so intensive period of management, then move on. We’re at the move on stage now.

Btw, the point about wanting a pliant manager is a non point, since the Board appointed Mourinho and LVG, two managers known for falling out with Boards. There’s no evidence at all they’re looking for a yes man.

 

[Apokalips]

Remember Mourinho tried to sell us the idea that Sevilla have better players than us. His excuses and the pauper narrative he tries to paint are pathetic and not exactly confidence boosting.

Our performances and the atmosphere around the club should not come as a surprise. We hoped for greatness, but this was always a fear.

 

[Isotope]

Watching that CL, how people can't be jealous with how Spurs and Liverpool (and City, Chelsea) play with style is beyond me.

 

[Nanotron]

The only thing of note in this thread now is the quality of @EwanI Ted s posts. Anyone who is going to turn to a jose out would have done so already. Dont know whats left to discuss now on the matter.

 

[Patrick08]

I think he cares. He's got a winner's attitude and I'm certain that this season is eating him alive from the inside. Whether he can turn it around is a whole separate question but so far I choose to believe that he can do it. If he gets sacked, then that's fully understandable too

Winners are flexible enough to adapt to the situation, while adapting to the strengths of his players, rather than whine since like start of the season as others are catching up with their hard work and he is feeling the pressure of it. I see no winner attitude in "My way or high way" style management specially when he ain't convincing anyone with his ways.