I am sure Mou could not care less about United. He is only focused on his personal benefits. He is trolling and begging to be sacked to get his 15 millions quid. Woody fecked up this one big time.
The Mourinho Thread: Should he stay or go? | Sacked
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You're putting an emphasis on the part where Woodward is the one who make deals happen.
I've noticed you don't hold it against Woodward his managerial appointments, something a great majority of fans are the most frustrated with.
Now I agree he overpaid for certain players and gave them higher wages than they deserve but mind you he hadn't done it on a whim, but in order to fulfill his manager's wishes and get him the players he asked, players he wanted to work with. Even you are no stranger to the fact that there has always been "United tax" and also our playing style doesn't really make us the most desirable of destinations either.
Remember when there were talks about Sanchez signing for us and when asked, Mourinho said something along the lines "when a player of that caliber becomes available, you should do everything to get him". There was even his famous quote about the 'juiciest orange', that was pretty much a sign to Woodward that Mourinho really, really wants Sanchez.
Failure to sell deadweight is on him, I do agree with that. He thought in today's inflated he can get some extra cash for them, as evident by Rojo - Everton talks. But then again the definition of a deadweight in our team greatly varies from fans to manager. Most of us would agree that Fellaini was a deadweight back when Mourinho was appointed, the same goes for Young, Jones etc. Yet those are some of Mourinho's most trusted servants.
Him extending contracts for ageing players is directly related to Mourinho and his most trusted soldiers being mostly those ageing players, Young, Valencia, Fellaini etc...he even extended Zlatan, probably on Mourinho's request.
Regarding last summer's reinforcements, we've been through that already. Fact that most of Mourinho's target's turned out to be pretty underwhelming, some straight-up flops, coupled with the fact that most of the targets were ageing players that would need replacing in a couple of years, plus the fact some were either unattainable or would require from us to give away our biggest talent, or would get us fleeced (which would put us in a whole new level of hell when it comes to future deals), made those signings very hard to make.
You can't really make him for failure to overhaul the squad considering the amount of signings he's made for our previous 3 manager's, because after all he isn't the one identifying the players to sign, but rather fulfilling manager's wishes.
I'm curious what you think about Mourinho's off-pitch antics, do you hold those against him as well?
It made no sense.
This is what @cheeky_backheel said :
I have a problem with Ed for the financial side of it e.g
- how much was paid for some transfers such as Lukaku, Matic and Fred
- wages paid to a lot of our players with Sanchez being the most ridiculous
- failure to sell dead weight
- extending contracts of aged players
- failure to bring in needed reinforcements last summer
- general failure to overhaul the squad
Funny you said this - arguably the fact we didnt go for both or either alderweireld Or Mcguire this summer; seems like woodward ends up doing the right thing for the club in your eyes, but this doesnt get notified by the Jose fan boys.
Ed is dumped when he does - dumped when he doesnt. Not spending 70 odd million on either Alderweireld or Mcguire was the correct decision. Injury prone, old, overrated, potential dead weight in the future, with some asking for stupid wages no doubt when they get here especially if they are moving from spurs to United. As my boy woodward said - he said he would rather go for Varane; in my opinion saying that for the money Jose required for his one and only player ilk - that it simply was not worth it and we should target better defenders at those prices. Same darn thing with Lukaku when we already had martial who is our main goal scoring threat long before Jose came and still after Jose attempted to use others
Mistakes were made by Woodward through Jose's fascination of a certain type of players - narrowing the whole word of footballers down to 10% good enough (or more likely tall and strong enough) for Jose Bloody Mourniho. Now he Woodward stands up against Jose's poor decision of players - old, have artheritis, play for rivals, need high transfers and wages - we should now have a go at woodward?
Please make your mind up. It's giving me a headache.
Cant help you with English comprehension
I can’t help you use words in the correct context. What you said made zero sense.
- Same woodward had no problem signing Matic for 40m and Lukaku for 75-90m but refused to sign perisic cos Inter was asking for too much.This is what @cheeky_backheel said :
I have a problem with Ed for the financial side of it e.g
- how much was paid for some transfers such as Lukaku, Matic and Fred
- wages paid to a lot of our players with Sanchez being the most ridiculous
- failure to sell dead weight
- extending contracts of aged players
- failure to bring in needed reinforcements last summer
- general failure to overhaul the squad
Funny you said this - arguably the fact we didnt go for both or either alderweireld Or Mcguire this summer; seems like woodward ends up doing the right thing for the club in your eyes, but this doesnt get notified by the Jose fan boys.
Ed is dumped when he does - dumped when he doesnt. Not spending 70 odd million on either Alderweireld or Mcguire was the correct decision. Injury prone, old, overrated, potential dead weight in the future, with some asking for stupid wages no doubt when they get here especially if they are moving from spurs to United. As my boy woodward said - he said he would rather go for Varane; in my opinion saying that for the money Jose required for his one and only player ilk - that it simply was not worth it and we should target better defenders at those prices. Same darn thing with Lukaku when we already had martial who is our main goal scoring threat long before Jose came and still after Jose attempted to use others
Mistakes were made by Woodward through Jose's fascination of a certain type of players - narrowing the whole word of footballers down to 10% good enough (or more likely tall and strong enough) for Jose Bloody Mourniho. Now he Woodward stands up against Jose's poor decision of players - old, have artheritis, play for rivals, need high transfers and wages - we should now have a go at woodward?
Please make your mind up. It's giving me a headache.
- He wouldnt sign Willian but agreed to pay Sanchez 350k and 52m for Fred?
- If Toby and Mcguire were not worth their asking price of 70m, then where is the 70m CB that was worth it?
- He said he would rather go for Varane but then couldnt even make an offer that would bring Madrid to the table.
- He says we dont want to buy older players but then he is extending the contract of much older players
Ed is the one that needs to make up his mind cos the dealings are all over the place. Ed has final say on transfers and contarcts, and thus should be held responsible for the outcomes.
@cheeky_backheel BTW considering you hold it against Woodward him extending ageing players, one would think you'd be happy he's learning from his past mistakes by not paying a fortune for Toby, Boateng, Perišić, Willian etc.
Considering the fact that for all ageing player's he's signed for Mourinho, we got very little on pitch from them. Both Matić and Zlatan were good for under a year, Sanchez is dreadful. Won't count Grant for obvious reasons.
Considering the fact that for all ageing player's he's signed for Mourinho, we got very little on pitch from them. Both Matić and Zlatan were good for under a year, Sanchez is dreadful. Won't count Grant for obvious reasons.
Hyperbole aside, I think you're putting a little too much stock in how much influence a DoF would have if you think that without one no manager could change how well the team plays.
Mate - Perisic was targetted to drop Martial out of the squad by Jose Mourinho. Whilst all his dear fans consider this to be Jose trying to use wing backs - this was a way of slowly dropping Martial for a harder working winger who provides width from the left hand side for a target man like Lukaku. This historically from Jose's tactics would allow him to use one inverted winger on the other side - the same summer who were we linked with? Thats right the left footed inverted winger that is Bale. This all happened in the first season where Jose came in and chucked Martial and Rashford under the bus by saying that they were not strikers for him and getting the 55 year old Zlatan
Any how - what happens for Perisic? Apparently Inter wanted Anthony Martial in exchange. Let me guess in your eyes Woodward wanted Martial to go but Jose resisted this transfer because it was poor for Manchester Unietd 
. Jose's intention for that period is to get the team to line up like thisPerisic- Lukaku - Bale
What happens then- Sanchez the 29 year old or older is available, signed for free in exchange for a Jose player and on abnormally high wages. INSTANTLY an on form Martial is dropped almost in his first available game from LW - proving that Perisic the LW was initially targeted not to play on the other side of marial at RW, not to play at LWB whilst Jose plays Martial as a striker (
deluded) but merely to get the fan and club favourite Anthony martial out of the club without looking like the evil man. This was even proved by Martial being publically called out, talking about mental ilness or what not and his lack of hard work. Fans of Jose started calling us Martial FC completely riding Jose's horse's mouth. Still dont believe me? What happened when Sanchez doesnt perform? Sanchez is not dropped - given a near a half season doing absolutely nothing as the inverted left winger of the United Squad. at this time a clear fan of Martial - woodward no doubt see's this - whilst Sanchez has the capaility to play as a RW - he still doesnt ; he has played one game there . My Lord and let me guess we suddenly need a RW under Jose's eyes? We Bloody got one on the highest wages at the club and still Jose's tactics are so stagnant and unflexible he continues to cry about wanting Willian.Lets talk about Willian huh? Why was Willian the winger we wanted the season Sanchez came? Beause Sanchez was a left winger forward that had replaced Martial under Jose's books and what was then neeeded at that time was not perisic the LW or the lwb
but Willian the RW that historically has provided width on the RW for Jose and his target man.Sanchez- Lukaku - Willian VS Perisic - Lukaku - Bale
You see the similairty of our transfer rumours and the strict balance in width and inverted forward around a target man that Jose has?
You see the ageing squad he is trying to build? all rotting and over 29 with their best years possibly already being under the management of Jose at previous clubs rather that Jose trying to work with new players.
The guy is pure rot, pus, fever, influenza.
The god damn CB's Woodward didnt want to spend 70 odd million on ageing or overrated CB's becayuse Jose was so clearly unable to get the best out of his squad. Who would drop a LW in form for a player who has historically done well at RW
Jose ends up crying that he hasnt had his CB and what would have happened if Woodward had got a makeshift CB for 70 odd million? you would complain about how he was woodwards managerial player and not Jose Mourinhoes.Look at your questiions mate - You are asking why we want to sing Willian for 60-70 odd million from Chelsea when we spent 350 K on Sanchez
- They are both the same age, one was traded for free. What has Fred for 52 Million a midfielder got for us not buying a approx 30 year old RW. Is age not important now? We have a 30 year old RW for 350 K that came under Jose's replacement of Martial!So Woodward is the one extending the contract of old players like Fellaini yet it is Jose that happens to be using him, begging him to stay alongside the likes of Ashley Young and Valencia for 2 seasons? What about Matic? An Ex Jose Chelsea player and its Woodwards fault he played that much for him
- no man in this world would beg for, pay for matic at that level than Jose. He wished for it. And you can see what happens when Jose does not get what he wants. The little baby bboy ends up sulking when he is 3 years old in to a contract.Now go trodlle off with him - im tired of this absolute lies seen through Jose fan boys and co. Makes me want to punch myself and lose my mind
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Moyes was not really an Ed appointment, and LvG wasnt a bad appointment in of itself given the situation the. The only one I have a problem with was appointing Mourinho after LvG given that they are philosophical antitheses, when Koeman or someone more aligned with LvG would have been better. That hinted that Ed did not appreciate the importance of managerial philosophies in squad building and longe term planning, when even in his first press conference Mourinho's comments about specialists signaled what almost every body else knew.
The problem is the inconsistency. In the same summer that you are paying 40m for Matic and 75m+ for Lukaku, you are balking at paying 50m for Perisic. If you are intent on getting the manager the players he wants then get all of them.
But Mourinho really wanted Perisic or Willian as well. Ed chose to say no on those but yes on Sanchez. Perisic and Willian would have been better to have than Sanchez given that we had Lukaku already
If he doesnt renew them, what would Mourinho do - quit? All he had to do was tell Mourinho he would not be renewing them and Mourinho should provide targets to replace them. Like I said earlier, Fellaini's comments hinted at the key point - 50m to buy a new midfielder while renewing contracts are much cheaper.
If we bring in qulaity younger players, Mourinho would have no grounds to complain when those players are let go
That is going by this season. Prior to this summer, we had signed Zlatan, Pogba, Mkhi, Bailly, Lukaku, Lindelof, Matic and Sanchez. Only Sanchez who joined mid season could have said to have disappointed. Lukaku and Matic had contributed well enough to our 2nd place finish. So Ed couldnt have used the performance of those player to justify his decisions.
On the CB, Mourinho wanted one that was better than what we had. The older ones were the cheaper options. That Madrid wouldnt even entertain a 100m bid for varane shows the kind of price they would want for him. The market is the market, and I think proper negotiations would have gotten either Toby, Maguire or any top CB for less than the initial 70m. Even if Toby is not worth 70m, but then where is the CB that is worth it?
I can cos
- he is the one that decided to hire Mourinhgo after LvG, basically sending us back to square one
- he keeps extending contracts of aging players
- he overpays our players making it difficult to sell
- he buys worn players like Zlatan, Matic and Sanchez, who would need replacement almost has soon as they joined us.
If you want to overhaul a squad, you buy younger players and fleece off dead weight.
I dont like it but dont really care for it as well. Its Mourinho being Mourinho. Only thing I hold him for is what happens on the pitch.
A manager needs to have a squad suited to his style of play and there is no miracle that can make up for a lack of quality in squad. Give this squad to Pep and they would look worse cos they just cant play the way he wants (just imagine Lukaku playing for Pep).
Nope - have separate issues with Ed and Mourinho
I have a problem with Ed for the financial side of it e.g
- how much was paid for some transfers such as Lukaku, Matic and Fred
That's his job, just because Mourinho has asked for players who haven't worked out doesn't mean you can hold it against him.
- wages paid to a lot of our players with Sanchez being the most ridiculous
Again, he's backing the manager. I actually praise him here, on paper a WC signing and one nearly everyone wanted. Did a good job.
- failure to sell dead weight
We used to let players go for peanuts so I don't mind that we now hold out a bit more. Again, doing his job.
- extending contracts of aged players
Mou's decision not his
- failure to bring in needed reinforcements last summer
This is true. There was a clear lack of backing for Mourinho
- general failure to overhaul the squad
repeating your 3rd point
Issues with Mourinho are on the pitch
- petulant child antics
- using the team result to make his point to the board
- some player selections
- incongruent attack
- limited midfield
- overall poor play and results
All Accurate on Mou
Fixed for you. Woodward should shoulder blame but he's not going out there and picking players - Mourinho has conducted himself atrociously here in the most part and his transfer dealings have been woeful overall. He should be sacked.
Jose signed him, nobody's fault.
@cheeky_backheel
You realise that much of your argument is based on the strength of exaggerated or fabricated media reports. The very same media whose sole purpose within the game is to create controversy and generate as many clicks as humanly possible, with United and Jose often being the primary target.
Just thought I'd put that out there.
You realise that much of your argument is based on the strength of exaggerated or fabricated media reports. The very same media whose sole purpose within the game is to create controversy and generate as many clicks as humanly possible, with United and Jose often being the primary target.
Just thought I'd put that out there.
So we are just outright writing lies huh?
so managers no longer manage, they don’t improve, mould and shape players anymore, just buy ready made players that can play their style or they end up 7th on the table, with a negative goal difference, 14 points off the leaders and a team with no basic competence huh?
1. You can get players without overpaying for them.
2. No cos that 350k made our wage situation worse. Arsenal were sensible to not meet his demands and we stupid to do so
3. Selling for peanuts is better than keeping them on our payroll or do you think we should have kept rooney too?
4. His decision, just like on transfers, even if Mourinho wants the player, Ed has the final say and can refuse to extend him
5. Not a repeat, cos his appointment of Mourinho as successor to LvG wasted all prior LvG transfers. Players like Depay, Schneiderlin and Blinfd were first to go
Sure, not the fellow whose choice the player is and turns players to shit. No, let's not blame him for that. He just watches from the shadow.Ed's biggest mistake in recent times was hiring Jose Mourinho. He's largely given Mourinho what he wanted other than players I'm grateful aren't at United like Ivan Perisic and bloody Willian who Chelsea fans can't wait to replace.
So we’re down to one Mourinho mentalist fighting a lone battle with lies, silly words and hyperbole. Fab.
So Pep did not overhaul the squad at Man City? why didnt he improve them and win the league? why do managers even bother to buy players at all when they can just improve what they have?
Feel free to keep lieing to yourself
Yup, let’s not forget Maguire. Thank feck Jose wasn’t given funds for these three.
Or 30% of the Cafe are supporting other teams?
There is no turning players into shit, they are what they are e.g. Lukaku has always had a poor touch.
Ed's biggest mistake in recent times was hiring Jose Mourinho. He's largely given Mourinho what he wanted other than players I'm grateful aren't at United like Ivan Perisic and bloody Willian who Chelsea fans can't wait to replace.
Ed has largely overpaid for players both in transfers and in wages, or was it also Mourinho that signed fellaini and Mata for a ridiculous fees or gave rooney the albatross contract?
So you think if Pep took over he would keep him?
I don't like us chopping and changing managers, but it's clear that this isn't working. The players he has signed aren't good enough (Pogba aside, but even he's not playing to his potential). He's failing to get the best out of our players. We have no style of play. We're toothless in attack and inept at the back. Like it or not, the manager has to take the blame. It's just not working.
Obviously, there seems to be lots of problems in the club and they need to be solved too, but at the end of the day, we're in mid table, playing an awful brand of football and showing no desire to improve and for those things, the buck stops with the manager. It's time for him to go.
Obviously, there seems to be lots of problems in the club and they need to be solved too, but at the end of the day, we're in mid table, playing an awful brand of football and showing no desire to improve and for those things, the buck stops with the manager. It's time for him to go.
Just one?
Watching people engage @cheeky_backheel is doing my head in,leave that man alone its spamming the thread
Jose picked Lukaku. He was always going to cost a bomb. Same with Sanchez. Arsenal captain and one of the best in the PL. You could argue we pay players a slight premium but he was always going to be exorbitant and our manager got his shiny toy. Fred, wanted by United and City was not going to be cheap either. Mourinho picked these players. They perform poorly. The team performs poorly. And you blame Ed for payable a little extra to give his manager his men.
Woodward has higher flaws and should stick to running the business. However blaming him spending that little bit extra/just the necessary amount to give a Mourinho the players he needed to make a mess of things is rather ironic.
Only one until we scrape a win tonight and the other 3 or 4 will be back.
1. The historically proven United tax (a result of being one of the richest football clubs on the planet) in combination with the club appearing to be in a somewhat desperate situation drives the price up significantly.
2. Sanchez was a free transfer, the money saved from that went directly into his weekly salary. By the time United entered the race to sign Sanchez, he was all but guaranteed to join City, Ed needed to pull out all the stops in order to prevent that from happening- and that's what he done. Plus, if Sanchez was performing anywhere near to his highest standard (one of the best forward players in the league) we wouldn't be having this discussion. That's hindsight for you I guess.
3. If the club couldn't afford to keep these players, they would have been sold for peanuts or simply offered up on for free. Your concern in this department is not necessary.
4. Ed can do that, sure, but absolutely not without the consent of the manager. Jose would have okayed the extension of Young's contract, it would never have taken place otherwise.
5. I agree with you here. Recruiting Jose was a poor decision in hindsight (that word again) for the reasons you mention in particular. Even though I was all over the idea of signing Jose at the time. How wrong I was.
Moyes aside, of course I wasn't referring to him at all considering he was SAF/Gill's appointment, I do hold appointment of LVG and Mourinho against him. In both case's he was going after who had the best CV and not who'd be the better fit for us, when you take our identity and values our success was built on. I suppose the only thing LVG had going his way aside from his availability and CV, was his work with the youth, which alone wasn't enough tbh.
Don't think the money alone was the issue, but Martial having the go the other way. Inter was pretty adamant they'll only accept Martial + cash for Perišić. Also getting the manager every single player he wants is quite impossible, no manager had that kind of backing, ever. Also keep in mind that Perišić with all due respect to him, was never worth how much Inter was asking. He failed at Dortmund and wasn't really all that convincing at Inter either.
But you see, Willian by his own admission didn't want to come once it was clear Conte gonna get the sack, whilst Perišić was even more difficult to pull off with the fact that another ageing player Mourinho wanted (Sanchez) failed miserably. Throwing crazy money on signings and hoping one would eventually come good isn't sustainable.
You're again arguing that the way to back Mourinho was by not backing him - not fulfilling his wishes. If he's doing what he's doing now to prove a point regarding one CB he didn't get this summer, imagine the mother of all hissy fits he'd be throwing if he was denied extending his trustees ?
Listen I love Matić but even I can't deny that he was on a serious decline after December, whilst Lukaku for all his goals had his well known slumps and he was nowhere to be seen from time to time. Granted he did good overall. But Lindelof and Sanchez looked absolutely disastrous from the get go, Miki was already deemed a flop and got traded, Bailly being always injured and quite erratic have put a serious question mark over his signings. Also Pogba was actually not that good, he was even dropped for MCT and Zlatan looked so bad when he came back before his time, he went to USA.
Not really considering Leicester was holding back, refusing to go into negotiations until WC was done (hoping to raise the price even more) whilst Levy is Levy, after Berbatov saga he was never going to do us a favour and reduce the price for any of his players we're interested in.
Those are double standards dude, considering you're actually defending Mourinho and that you're scrutinising him for buying worn out players the likes of Matic, Sanchez and Zlatan but then you're building you're entire case for defense of Mourinho around the fact he was denied Toby, Boateng, Perišić, Willian - all ageing, worn out players.
You don't really care about him disrespecting the club, club legend's and club's history with his antics, bringing shame and bad publicity whilst doing so?
Oh they will be
So desperate to direct the blame anywhere other than where it belongs (firmly at the feet of Jose Mourinho) that he bases an entire argument on unreliable media reports.
Absolute lunacy.
Just imagine Guardiola ever contemplating Lukaku as a singing, let alone actually signing him at all.
In theory you can, but when you're representing one of the richest club's in the world, when you have your ambitions set up high and when you have a very needy, extremely petulant manager who's always complaining, things can prove difficult. After all its the manager who's handing down the transfer targets list to Woodward. Maybe manager is ought to me more considerate then and go for those that won't require overpaying for?
But he did improve his players and the majority of the ones he signed himself, whilst you can't say the same for our manager…
Who is it. I guess I have most of them on ignore.
It's always back and forth with them.
Woodward has made mistakes in the past and thank God he is trying to get it right for once. When a manager demands a player and then if the club says he is too expensive, then Jose throws out his toys. Why should Woodward pay over the odds on every player? He has already paid over the odds on many players because Jose wanted those players. Lukaku, Pogba, Sanchez, Bailly, Matic, Miki, Fred, etc. He is not even playing Bailly and Fred. He has sold Mikhi. So it is criminal negligence on Jose's part to get players and then not play them at all.
For once Woodward has found a set of balls to say No. These players that Jose is trying to bring is not going to make such a big difference. What the Manager should be trying to do is to get these players to play a lot better as for sure they are capable of playing a lot better.
If not then he should go.
Even before City were the swashbuckling champions they are now, you could see Pep’s imprint in the team. The season he took over they finished 3rd only 5 points off the champions. He’s improved multiple players there too. And I dunno why you are specifically tailoring this after Pep now. Your original assertion that was “A manager needs to have a squad suited to his style of play“, which is not necessarily true as time again plenty managers make an impact before even bringing their pieces on board. It goes without saying that specific tools are likely to improve results. Nevertheless, managers, especially supposed top notch managers, are supposed to manage, adapt, and improve players. This argument is really not the one, mate.
I think it's either we sack him within the next 2 weeks and let a replacement have at least a January transfer window to try and salvage the season or we back Mourinho in the January window and if he doesn't make top 4 then sack him. The main thing that needs to change is the organisation behind the manager, we need somebody who can make the footballing decisions for the long term future of the club.
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