This is my main problem with our board - they are too bloody passive! Be proactive and maybe we can still salvage something from this season. It's crazy.
The Mourinho Thread: Should he stay or go? | Sacked
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Ed has shown that Mourinho's input in that regard is irrelevant, else we would have signed perisic and Toby.
Woodward can only act if the leeches from America give him the go ahead.
No mention of Jardim. A man who has won titles, and is excellent with young players. Utd are far off winning Premier League titles at the moment so I would not even think about that. A manager who might be able to play slightly more progressive football would be enough for me at this point. Look at Unai Emery. Many thought he was a 'risky' appointment but I think he has come in and done a superb job. I don't see why Jardim can't do the same at Utd.
This is actually literally the case when you think about it (with Zlatan arguably an exception). It's quite impressive really, to screw up that much takes something 'special'.
Do you blame him? Mourinho is the guy who thought signing lukaku Sanchez mikhitaryan Bailey (who doesn’t even play), Matic, Fred (who doesn’t play) was a good idea. Pogba has been his good singing and you or I could have known Pogba would be good
Zlatan was a fail transfer for me. I don’t blame zlatan but we needed a younger striker who could carry us next season.
That’s why I used the word yet at the end of my post. Getting beat 0-3 to both City and Liverpool is as bad as it gets for me. Losing at the Etihad doesn’t really compare.
As much as I'm opposed to giving Mourinho any credit whatsoever, I think it kind of made sense. We had two young strikers, Rashford and Martial, and were hopeful that one of them would be ready to lead the line after a year under Zlatan's wings. Zlatan was a free agent and up until his injury did very well. So I'd give Mourinho a pass on that one.
Agreed. Can the Caf tweet United about Jardim?
If Had twitter I would be bombarding them with his name
No Ed decision was not based on the performances of those signings. We did not sign Perisic before Lukaku, Sanchez, Matic and Fred ever played and Bailly was had a very good first season. Even the decision to decline on Toby could not be justified on player performances when those prior signing and help us finish 2nd.
Ed had his own measure to determine that they weren't worth their asking prices (in Toby's case was likely the lure of him being available for cheaper the next summer) but his decision couldn't have been based on bad performances of prior signings as he didnt have that information back then. Thus you cannot justify his decisions in hindsight.
"loveless marriage", so apt. Everyone wants to be put out of their misery.
The notion that Zidane would be a "huge gamble" is frankly absurd too. The guy has won three Champions League titles in a row when no other club has ever won even two in a row. If he's not deemed sufficiently qualified then you're looking for excuses not to hire a replacement.
I'd take Eddie Howe too in an instant. The Moyes debacle has turned many fans off the idea of hiring a 'no-name' but the important thing isn't past accomplishments (as Mourinho and LVG prove) but to get a coach with a clear vision and a positive philosophy (as Guardiola proves). Howe has that, Moyes didn't, they're not comparable at all.
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It seems to me that Mourinho is yesterday's man - his tactical approach looks outdated, and isn't a great fit with United anyway: his willingness to go public with his criticism of players leads to a deterioration in the dressing room and in player confidence: he doesn't seem to improve players in the way that other coaches do, preferring instead to shell out for the finished article.
There may be grounds for criticising the board and/or Woodward, but does anyone really think that we're improving as a team or as a club under Mourinho's tenure? If Mourinho was given free reign in the transfer market, would he really produce a winning side playing a style of football that we'd like to see? My guess is that we'd just get more of the same - dull football, unconvincing performances, and the enigma of players who were brilliant before they came to us but poor afterwards. He has to go.
As for his replacement, I'd like us to do something bold and appoint a young, preferably British, coach with the brief of re-establishing the path from youth to senior ranks, committed to a more progressive style of play, and given time to achieve success (i.e. think a bit longer term). Let's not forget, it took Fergie nearly 4 years to win a trophy (and it's rumoured we nearly sacked him!).
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Just give it to Laurent Blanc until the end of the season. His PSG side played some good football.
We shouldn't really be surprised though. Unless Mourinho is winning trophies, there is literally nothing to like or enjoy about his football. You only persist and tolerate him if there is something to show for it at the end. His approach and methods no longer work. He has no answers to teams who sit deep and play on the counter attack. Nor does he have a solution to handle teams like City, who press high and dominate possession.
I go to old Trafford and come away depressed.
And then I watch Spurs v Chelsea on the way home and get even more depressed …… and then I watch Match of the Day and get even more depressed at how far behind we are the other "Big 6" in all aspects of our game.
There is such an air of depression around the club now and the only way we can snap out of it is to change the manager.
Saying match after match that we lacked intensity etc has got to point the finger at the manager - it's his job to motivate the players to perform.
I'm normally a really positive person but these days United make me feel gloomy and downcast rather than happy or excited.
It doesn't matter if it costs £12m to get rid of him - that's a drop in the ocean compared to the revenue we could lose from prize money, TV appearances, gate money, merchandise etc if we continue on this downward spiral.
I was glad Mourinho was appointed albeit mainly because he wasn't LVG - I think I would have welcomed the tea lady as manager at that point. I was ready for pragmatic football for a few seasons while Mourinho got back our winning mindset but let's be honest it hasn't happened and is too far gone now to hope that it ever will.
We need to cut our losses NOW. He needs to go NOW.
And then I watch Spurs v Chelsea on the way home and get even more depressed …… and then I watch Match of the Day and get even more depressed at how far behind we are the other "Big 6" in all aspects of our game.
There is such an air of depression around the club now and the only way we can snap out of it is to change the manager.
Saying match after match that we lacked intensity etc has got to point the finger at the manager - it's his job to motivate the players to perform.
I'm normally a really positive person but these days United make me feel gloomy and downcast rather than happy or excited.
It doesn't matter if it costs £12m to get rid of him - that's a drop in the ocean compared to the revenue we could lose from prize money, TV appearances, gate money, merchandise etc if we continue on this downward spiral.
I was glad Mourinho was appointed albeit mainly because he wasn't LVG - I think I would have welcomed the tea lady as manager at that point. I was ready for pragmatic football for a few seasons while Mourinho got back our winning mindset but let's be honest it hasn't happened and is too far gone now to hope that it ever will.
We need to cut our losses NOW. He needs to go NOW.
Once we get 45 points we could cut him loose, let Carrick and McKenna have a pop till the end.
I'd be really interested to see what, if any impact Carrick and McKenna have without Jose there. I think Rui going is a blow and I haven't seen anything to think Carrick and Co are having a positive effect. Against Palace it was an utter shambles of misplaced passing and giving them free reign when inside our half. Should've been 2-0 to Palace at minimum.
With Pogba recovering, Matic being rubbish, slow and overplayed and Herrera not available we really needed Fred's energy, the 50 million pound signing who hardly plays. He and Pogba work well.
I'd be really interested to see what, if any impact Carrick and McKenna have without Jose there. I think Rui going is a blow and I haven't seen anything to think Carrick and Co are having a positive effect. Against Palace it was an utter shambles of misplaced passing and giving them free reign when inside our half. Should've been 2-0 to Palace at minimum.
With Pogba recovering, Matic being rubbish, slow and overplayed and Herrera not available we really needed Fred's energy, the 50 million pound signing who hardly plays. He and Pogba work well.
Even the Madrid fans don't think Zidane had any particular philosophy or was taking the team in any specific direction. They appreciate his pragmatism and making the best out of the people at his disposal.
It's true that he didn't put a stamp on the team like a Guardiola or a Klopp. But I still think three Champions League titles in a row is too strong an argument to dismiss his qualities, especially considering how Real have fared since he quit (and I know they lost a certain someone else too).
Bordeaux and France too. For some reason he pisses me off though, the guy is constantly sulking.
The idea of having Moyes was actually very good. Unfortunately, the manager himself was no good but you get my point. A no name who has the right ingredients would be excellent.
TBH I really don't care. Any manager that attacks I'd rake right now
Well they do and if you haven’t seen any then it must be because you’ve chosen to ignore it as it’s been mentioned in quite a few stories. Especially tagged on to Martial stories about how he is willing to sign because he believes Jose is getting the boot. Add on apparently Bailly and Valencia want out due to feeling publicly humiliated by Jose and DeGea doesn’t believe currently we can compete under this leadership.
Like I said I’m sure there is also a money issue on top of this especially with DeGea due to Sanchez’s wages. There is a cumilation of factors and 1 is Jose’s future.
We must be secretly struggling financially if we can't pay £14M to get rid.
Ed's a businessman, so I'm curious about this non-decision. Our reputation is in the toilet and getting worse as soon as the manager opens his mouth. Sponsors must be twitching a bit, plus good luck trying to get new sponsors with the shite being served up.
Our best players are poised to maybe leave. How much is all that going to cost us overall? £14M looks piss cheap when you look at all the other damage that is being done, and will be done to stick with this.
Am I missing something, or are the people in charge dumb?
The only thing you are missing is the cost of not qualifying for the Champs League (and possibly Europa), plus the drop in revenues from a disinterested and probably declining fan base.
But I agree with your sentiments on the £14m v cost of keeping him
Aye but still if you can sack him at the end of the season for nothing then you’re still saving 14mil to spend elsewhere. I’d love for him to no longer be our manager but even if we sacked him tomorrow and brought someone in getting 4th is still going to be a struggle. Bringing someone in now most likely means we are just going with what’s available other than looking at all the best candidates.
1) This doesn't make any sense
2) After the shite served up on Sat how can you still defend this man? Mind-boggling.
Yes, I agree that his three CL is quite a thing. But the problem is United does not just need a new manager, we needs multiple investments in the squad itself to come up to a decent level. Also needs a playing style or philosophy to be defined. Our last 3 managers had completely different styles and the team looks confused.
Again, United need a lot more than another manager. And that is where I am a bit skeptical about Zidane. We went for whoever was available, last two times we sacked the manager. It is important that we get lot of things right this time around.
At this stage no-one is a gamble, provided we put the right clauses in place. We're miles off qualifying for the CL places so we really have nothing to lose. Even Carrick and McKenna would do no worse than Mourinho.
Any other top club would have pulled the pin by now.
I do see your point, that we need someone who won't just make a side function but will completely revamp the team with a very clear, distinctive philosophy. And maybe Zidane isn't the right man for that. But I still think that if the argument against sacking Mourinho is that there's no real alternative out there, and you have a young, famous, three-time-in-a-row Champions League winning coach walking around without a job, then that's nonsense.
I'm not for once trying to argue that LVG is better than Jose or that his football was better than Jose's. That's an argument I have had done & dusted with approximately two or three years ago.
The point I am trying to make is that ultimately Jose has been a complete waste of time. On one hand he has managed to scrape through a lite treble of cups in his first season & that was great, second season we hit above our teams own standard to reach 2nd with a traditional league winning total of points - however, I look at season 3 and see that we have not really improved as a football playing team.
A) in my opinion we play the same brand of full football +-10 percent
B) there is a much less lack of teamwork in our game & everyone at the club ultimately resemble a bunch of individuals which arises from Jose's own management methods
C) our squad has only gotten better due to Pogba in my eyes. Players like Lindelof, Lukaku, Matic are arguably players that are of minimal importance to the club & its performance - these are Jose players & fans like myself knew that these players are more vital to Jose Mourinho rather than Manchester United. If any money is going to be made from sales - it's going to be Jose's lot. If Woodward had possibly given Jose the go ahead - we would have a squad that still failed in its 3rd year but only with even more older players on the verge of retiring across the squad. The Toby's the perisic's the matic's the Sanchez's.
It's great for a fan that bewilders in pure success - but for a fan like me; I'd rather see Rashford playing upfront than Lukaku. Likewise I'd rather see pereira than Matic. If j had wanted to see Lukaku & Matic play then I should just support a soulless title winning team like Chelsea.
Best example of why I value LVG over Jose is this - Jose came in after Rashford's break out season; scoring a goal probably around every 2 games at the age of 19 & said that Rashford was not experienced to lead the line for him; nor was martial.
A lot of the Jose fans of the time believed exactly what he said & assumed that Ibrahimovoic was bought to only provide Rashford & Martial with experience. What happened that season? Both Martial & Rashford got turned to permanent wingers under Jose; with one having his shirt number changed too - something again his fans denied as relevant. Two or 3 games they got as a striker & that's about it. What happened after Zlatan's experienced went away? Jose continued his lies - experience for Rashford changed to merely needing a target man as it is essential to his tactics throughout his career. Got a young 80 year old make shift Target man with a big structure simple because Rashford will never be one. Rashford will never be a striker in Jose's eyes because of his sheer favoritism of a type of player that Rashford does not represent. All this whilst I have seen Rashford who has always been a poor winger in my eyes even at reserve level trying to improve his game from outwide & hitting the ball harder with his eyes pointed at the floor - the guy who looked like our future striker is looking clueless for Manchester United.
Funnily enough - who are United's main attacking threats npw? You would argue its still Martial & Fellani - has anything changed 2 years after LVG? I certainly don't think so.
The reason I wanted LVG to continue even for one extra season is because he would have continued Rashford, Martial development, whilst possibly adding in the likes of Tuenzebe, Pereira, chong, gomes, gribbin & TFM and plenty others we currently talk about in our reserves whilst selling off mctomminay and Co. Our team at this point may definitely not be up there with city's, we most likely will be sitting in 7th or 8th in the league - but ultimately we would have some young players almost enough to play a full starting 11 playing as a cohesive but no doubt restrictive team if LVG had continued for one more year.
Jose we have a player or two at max better & having some of our other players playing worse, and our youngsters more distant than ever.
Absolutely, the biggest gamble is keeping Mourinho and waiting for him to destroy the squad and alienate our players to a point of no return.
You have to wonder if Carrick/McKenna might have been sounded out and said no thanks? Taking over from LvG ended up doing Giggs’ chances of getting the job in the long-term no good at all and Carrick will be well aware of this. He’ll just end up a patsy for an inadequate squad freewheeling their way until the end of the season. I know I’d tell Woodward to get fecked if I was in his shoes.
The problem with Moyes was that he had already peaked and was on a downwards slope by the time we appointed him. Everton had stagnated and he didn't look like he could do any more than tread water with them
My only hope is that the board are going to hit the reset button this summer and don't see the point in getting rid of Mourinho before then.
Was listening to the transfer window podcast and McGarry was saying that 10 players' contracts are coming up for renewal. Seems inevitable that a fair few of them will leave and we won't have to buy them out. In that case, we'll be able to reboot the squad so maybe the owners want to give the new manager a completely clean slate.
Another thing to consider is that, while we'll be happy to let a lot of the out-of-contract players leave, we're desperately keen to keep DDG and Martial. If they've said they won't re-sign if Mourinho stays (and this is pure speculation), that must mean his days are numbered.
What I don't get about Mourinho is that he so clearly idolises SAF and the opportunity to create a dynasty, just like his idol, was handed to him on a plate.
Yet, he throws the towel in, as usual, in his 3rd season.
Why doesn't he learn from his master? FFS, he can talk to him as often as he likes.
I kind of knew, everyone knew really, that his 3rd season would be difficult, it always is with him, but I genuinely thought he would want to build something here and he doesn't.
Yet, he throws the towel in, as usual, in his 3rd season.
Why doesn't he learn from his master? FFS, he can talk to him as often as he likes.
I kind of knew, everyone knew really, that his 3rd season would be difficult, it always is with him, but I genuinely thought he would want to build something here and he doesn't.
I keep seeing his name pop up and don't quite see the appeal at all tbh other than the fact that he was a former player under Fergie.
Dominating in France with endless funds at your disposal doesn't exactly require a masterclass in management and his lack of success in Europe under enviable conditions doesn't really reflect well on his tactical know how imo. If we look to France for a Jose successor,I'd much rather give Jardim a shot than him
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He definitely wants to build something. He presumably thought part of this process was the club signing players he’d identified as the missing pieces of our jigsaw over the summer. Since that didn’t happen he’s either so pissed off he’s stopped trying/caring or is trying/caring but lacks the chops to turn things round. Either way, we’re screwed.
I agree our wage structure is absolutely bonkers the last few years. For fairness, each player would have to be looked at on a case by case basis, its not as simple as just blaming Woodward in all instances. I mean Jose had to have Fellaini, he was integral to his future plans. So that played to Fellaini's renegotiating plans and asking for a ridiculous increase.
Woodward had but 2 options there, Refuse Jose and off load Fellaini = not supporting the manager or simply cave in and give Jose / Fellaini what he wants.
Many of our senior players like Valencia, Young, Smalling and Jones seem his preferred go to options and he is also quite happy to offer new deals to keep them at the club and Woodward has to make do the best he can in these situations. I'd also point out as well that players like the 4 listed here were all originally signed by Fergie / Gill and immediately put onto daft bloody contracts to start with and renewing their deals generally just means an increase on what they already have.
The problems in many instances were already there for Woodward to deal with.
By all means blame him for Sanchez mental wages as he was signed under his watch.
Pff, plenty of his own Real players disliked Jose as well.
Dropping Casillas cause an uproar at the club and in turn soured relationships with Ramos and Pepe and he even made public comments about Ronaldo "starting the season slow" as an excuse for not winning La Liga.
We all know he's fallen out with players at every single club he's been at, no point trying to suggest otherwise.
Which is why I think living in a feckin hotel room away from his family for 3 years has killed his joy and passion.
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