The Mourinho Thread: Should he stay or go? | Sacked

[Bastian]

I think the simple answer is because that he does rate them (as I have tried to argue earlier in this thread).

He could have sold Jones and Smalling this summer and they would have fetched more than it would have cost to buy Aldeweireld.

And promoted Tuanzebe to the first squad. If anyone thinks that its not a conscious decision not to do so by Mourinho they are a ltb naive or just so focused to blame this on earlier managers or Ed.

IMO.

EDIT
And I am not anti-Jose, I am just arguing against this narrative that we dont have the squad we have because of someone else than Mourinho.

I'm not sure it's that easy to move on Jones and Smalling, and I don't think they'd necessarily fetch a combined amount that would get us Toby. But I'd have taken that, easily. Tuanzebe might not be ready though.

I think if the club said to him that he'd be backed to catch up with City he'd be happy to get rid of quite a few players. When he first came in he spoke about not wanting a bloated squad. But that's just my take on things..

 

[MV12]

Thank you SAH!
The question I ask, is that if neutrals can see this, why can't most fans of MUFC?
Most fans of MUFC seem to want to fire the manager and hope that like a magic bullet, it solves all our issues.

I think it's because most fans had an agenda against Mourinho from before he even took the job.
And let's call it how it is.. Most love to moan at every given opportunity, and spread biased, narrow minded opinions around like it's going out of fashion.
The anti Mourinho brigade have almost no sense of objectivity, as to the enormity of the task that he took on. And instead use everything they can as stick to beat him. That's why I use the term 'witch hunt'. And in my opinion, it's beyond pathetic.

 

[sunama]

We have a very split fanbase. This is fact. If everything was all good then fans would be on the same page like at other clubs. This is enough proof the manager is a problem.

The manager is the scapegoat.

Remember when we fired Moyes....we got LVG.
Remember when we fired LVG....we got Jose.
Now you want to fire a manager of the highest calibre?
Firing manager every 2 years is not good for any club (except Chelsea) and firing an elite level manager is just plain ludicrous.

I am far from giving up on Jose and the time to fire him would be if we fall out of the top 4 and/or the players down tools. In these instances I don't think even Jose would begrudge the sacking.

 

[VP89]

Nope, he just lowered the expectations, and did what he always does best, put the blame on other people.

We finished second last season and conceded less goals than any other team bar City. We have conceded already 7 goals this season (and scored just 4) when it is essentially the same team, which now should be more suited to his 'tactics' and Fred. Going backwards is totally not justifiable. If he coached players instead of moaning (like Pochettino did, who btw, didn't sign a single player), we would be in a better position.

We are 3 games into tye season. Can people shut the feck up about judging from 3 games.

 

[LeftyBlaster]

I heard Sven is looking for a job lol! Saw him on Skysports today and he's just chilling! Can't believe he admitted he was a Liverpool fan.

Always knew something wasn't right with him

 

[-Supreme-]

The majority that wanted Mourinho out probably didn't want him in the first place.
He's the "enemy". He's lost it. He's a dinosaur.

He's the current Manchester United manager and we should bloody back him.

This lack of progress talk is ridiculous when he took our team to second last season. Apparently now points is not a good barometer, "the league never lies" is apparently all BS. Style is the most important thing to a club because poor Jimmy is getting bored watching the football. His haters constantly try to move to goal posts to try to justify their hate. We are Manchester United, we always care about results first. Arsenal is being happy about playing nice football but coming 4th. And for years we laughed at them and their fans.

As for his spending, he's not doing the negotiation! It's not his fault that Ed cannot negotiate and consistently pays over the top for players. Ed almost prides himself for paying huge fees for big players as a marketing move. Jose identifies the players and you can't argue that Pogba, Lukaku, Sanchez, Matic, Fred are not improvements to our team. Who really thinks Jose signed two 23 year olds defenders no one really heard of as our starter? I think it's fairly clear they were bought as squad players with a look to the future. Ed overpaid for them so they look like starter signings. And even if he got them wrong, he's gotten more right than wrong. All managers, including the beloved Pep, Poch and Klopp, get some transfers wrong.

I'm sick of the negativity here and plenty wanting to change for the sake of changing. Would love to hear from those wanting Jose gone who they think would actually want to come in and take over our squad, with no transfers window, behind a dominant City, and somehow have the ability to get improvements on all fronts. We were second and to improve, we need to win. Who is this mythical manager that will overhaul City with our squad playing attacking football. And why would he or she want join us now?

And since when did we start siding with Ed and the Glazers over the manager? Our season looked optimistic when we signed Fred, then Ed fecking decided he knew football better than Jose and signed no one else for the first team. He caused all the negativity with his action. And then he had the gall to undermine the manager with his stupid briefing. Wtf is he trying to prove? And yet we blame this on Jose? Would you lot prefer he said we had a great squad and no one new was needed? Perhaps he treated the fans with more respect and honesty than we deserve.

Since when did we accept player power over manager? Have we forgotten what SAF's motto was? Have we forgotten what our club is about?

Jose out? Ffs he's won the EPL more recently than us. If he's lost it, then we're further gone. If we can't get a proven winner like Jose to work then we might as well pack up. We are getting knocked off our fecking perch.

Anyways, rant over. I think the majority with get their wish and see Jose go sooner rather than later. And then we'll deserve everything that come afterwards. I am still hoping I'm wrong and Jose will manage to stick around.

Well said! It's funny those wanting Jose to be sacked and expect his replacement will magically improve from last season's 2nd place finish.

 

[Revan]

We are 3 games into tye season. Can people shut the feck up about judging from 3 games.

Yeah, let's pretend that the two previous seasons didn't happen, and neither the preseason. It is all going to be alright, I tell you.

 

[MV12]

Yeah, let's pretend that the two previous seasons didn't happen, and neither the preseason. It is all going to be alright, I tell you.

What winning 2 trophies, finishing runners up with a points gained record, and reaching another final??.. Ok .. Shall we also forget the three years prior to that? Or the last few years of Sir Alexs' time?
Preseason was a joke, as they usually are in world cup years.
I can agree with you on the bolded part.

 

[VP89]

Yeah, let's pretend that the two previous seasons didn't happen, and neither the preseason. It is all going to be alright, I tell you.

What's wrong with last season? We were fine in terms of end position. We played poorly for half a season but had shit loads of injuries and a defence needing protection.

 

[Mourinhonista]

Mourinho's going nowhere, he's still got a few good years left on his contract and the board won't be daft enough to sack him, at least not now, maybe at the end of the season if we continue being in a downward spiral. But no one can predict how United will perform over the next couple of months. It's not a certainty that things can only get worse and Mourinho won't be here next season.

More problematic will be the atmosphere around the online boards. Could get more and more toxic. Especially those with smug faces who keep showing up and spreading negativity all over the place, bigging up some of the players and can't wait to put the boot into Mourinho.

Experienced coaches such as Moyes or Van Gaal couldn't get the team playing good again. Sacking the manager isn't always the best solution. He's clearly trying and back to back losses aren't the end of the world.

 

[Grande]

Nope, he just lowered the expectations, and did what he always does best, put the blame on other people.

We finished second last season and conceded less goals than any other team bar City. We have conceded already 7 goals this season (and scored just 4) when it is essentially the same team, which now should be more suited to his 'tactics' and Fred. Going backwards is totally not justifiable. If he coached players instead of moaning (like Pochettino did, who btw, didn't sign a single player), we would be in a better position.

You measure progress by looking at three games? We are going backwards defensively because we let in 6 in 2 games? Were were you when we let in 11 in two against Newcastle and Southampton?

Success can't be measured by just Jose's points.

LVG [bladeebla] Loved LVG & was [etc]

Say, what?

 

[LawCharltonBest]

If Lukaku scored that, we would looking at a different result and a more upbeat mood.

I'm in. Mourinho deserves more patience than what LvG or Moyes ever deserved..

What annoyed me more than that pathetic miss was Lukakus attitude after. I'd have chased every ball and put pure emotion into the rest of my performance to make up for it.

Lukaku kept missing more chances and looked completely unarsed about the whole thing

 

[#07]

You measure progress by looking at three games? We are going backwards defensively because we let in 6 in 2 games? Were were you when we let in 11 in two against Newcastle and Southampton?



Say, what?

Some of these probably weren't even in school when Philipe Albert was playing!

 

[Revan]

What's wrong with last season? We were fine in terms of end position. We played poorly for half a season but had shit loads of injuries and a defence needing protection.

We were pretty shit to watch, we were out of race for the title on November and Sevilla humiliated us in UCL.

 

[-Supreme-]

What annoyed me more than that pathetic miss was Lukakus attitude after. I'd have chased every ball and put pure emotion into the rest of my performance to make up for it.

Lukaku kept missing more chances and looked completely unarsed about the whole thing

I think that's down to match fitness, don't forget he didn't have any preseason.

 

[Grande]

Some of these probably weren't even in school when Philipe Albert was playing!

Most would maybe guess he’s the Prince of Monaco. Doubt if anyone remembers the Terror of facing Egil Østenstad either.

 

[#07]

Most would maybe guess he’s the Prince of Monaco. Doubt if anyone remembers the Terror of facing Egil Østenstad either.

What the hell were we thinking with that grey kit?

 

[Robbie Boy]

Some of these probably weren't even in school when Philipe Albert was playing!

Which has exactly what to do with the current situation

Talking about a-few bad games from the clubs most successful period is pretty weird. This is the here-and-now and right now, things look pretty bleak.

 

[#07]

Which has exactly what to do with the current situation

Talking about a-few bad games from the clubs most successful period is pretty weird. This is the here-and-now and right now, things look pretty bleak.

It offers a degree of perspective. We have had bad weeks, bad times, bad years, bad decades, before. The meltdown about Mourinho would suggest what we've seen in the opening weeks of this season are unprecedented. If we win our next four games, which isn't that difficult to imagine, we'll have had an equal record over the first six as we did last time we won the title.

We haven't exploded out of the blocks, the Brighton performance was unacceptable and the negative press around the club isn't great either. However, half a dozen decent wins will make all of that look like ancient history.

People need to calm down. We're not where we were even in December 2015. There are 36 games left. Let's at least wait until Bonfire night to start truly panicking.

 

[ash_86]

We have a very split fanbase. This is fact. If everything was all good then fans would be on the same page like at other clubs. This is enough proof the manager is a problem.

The split is not just about the manager right? It's also our board and their incompetence in footballing decisions. The problem runs deeper than the manager.

 

[Robbie Boy]

It offers a degree of perspective. We have had bad weeks, bad times, bad years, bad decades, before. The meltdown about Mourinho would suggest what we've seen in the opening weeks of this season are unprecedented. If we win our next four games, which isn't that difficult to imagine, we'll have had an equal record over the first six as we did last time we won the title.

We haven't exploded out of the blocks, the Brighton performance was unacceptable and the negative press around the club isn't great either. However, half a dozen decent wins will make all of that look like ancient history.

People need to calm down. We're not where we were even in December 2015. There are 36 games left. Let's at least wait until Bonfire night to start truly panicking.

I don't really think it does offer that much perspective, to be completely honest. You were talking about some freak results from an amazing period for the club. Sure, Fergie had some hard times, but by god it was an incredible time for the club under his management. Football has moved on a-lot since then - and as harsh as it is - managers simply aren't afforded that kind of time anymore. A Fergie style era, will never again be seen in football, imo. I feel that the two eras aren't comparable in the slightest.

I still feel people aren't really getting the full picture: Nobody is chastising Mourinho after two bad results. The cracks had been starting to appear last season and the negativity he has brought on himself and the club since then, is unforgivable. He is the one bringing this "us vs them" mentality to the club, and right now, it's seriously backfiring.

As I previously said, he could turn this around but the signs right now all point towards us going into free-fall and Mourinho getting into some serious rows with the media. It's about opinions but the opinion that I have formed based on the past 7/8 months at this club, is one of Mourinho being sacked by the start of next season.

 

[bosnian_red]

What's wrong with last season? We were fine in terms of end position. We played poorly for half a season but had shit loads of injuries and a defence needing protection.

We didnt have that many injury problems. Every team has injuries, ours last season were probably less then at any point in the last 5 years (and with fergie they were always bad too).
The problem with last season is that the football got worse and worse as the season went on, so many off field issues, so many under performing players, and just looking like a poorly coached side. It's why many of us were relieved at the world cup, a chance to relax and watch stress free enjoyable football, and why this season feels like just a continuation from last and why the mood going into the season seemed so depressed. All stemmed from last season.

Finishing 2nd just covered up how many issues we had, and now they are coming to light as theres not a chance we overperform relative to our performances to that extent again.

 

[#07]

I don't really think it does offer that much perspective, to be completely honest. You were talking about some freak results from an amazing period for the club. Sure, Fergie had some hard times, but by god it was an incredible time for the club under his management. Football has moved on a-lot since then - and as harsh as it is - managers simply aren't afforded that kind of time anymore. A Fergie style era, will never again be seen in football, imo. I feel that the two eras aren't comparable in the slightest.

I still feel people aren't really getting the full picture: Nobody is chastising Mourinho after two bad results. The cracks had been starting to appear last season and the negativity he has brought on himself and the club since then, is unforgivable. He is the one bringing this "us vs them" mentality to the club, and right now, it's seriously backfiring.

As I previously said, he could turn this around but the signs right now all point towards us going into free-fall and Mourinho getting into some serious rows with the media. It's about opinions but the opinion that I have formed based on the past 7/8 months at this club, is one of Mourinho being sacked by the start of next season.

There is nothing that points to us going into a free-fall. We played terribly against Brighton but against Spurs we were much better. Mourinho wanted a reaction and he got one. If the players are still willing to put in the effort, which Monday's game suggests they are, why should we anticipate dropping like a stone? If we had lost to Spurs in the same manner that we lost to Brighton I'd agree with you. That wasn't the case and the stats bare that out (link).

How is the us vs them mentality backfiring? Again, there's little to indicate from the players that they aren't behind him. We have had two public statements of discontent: From Martial via his agent and from Pogba via implication. That's two from a very large first team squad. In recent days both officially and unofficially the us vs them mentality has been endorsed by people like Bryan Robson and David de Gea. So where is the evidence that Mourinho's desire to build a siege mentality is failing? There seem to have been enough people left in the Stretford End on Monday night buying into it after full time.

I don't understand your point about comparing eras, are you saying because managers don't get a lot of time we can no longer say United have bounced back from bad weeks before? I'm not sure there's a causal link between both things. The amount of time a manager has at United doesn't seem obviously related to the club's ability to recover from two dissapointing results and go on a run.

 

[VP89]

We were pretty shit to watch, we were out of race for the title on November and Sevilla humiliated us in UCL.

We were fine to watch in the first half of the season.

Then we got injuries and became shit to watch. City ran away with the title. Shock horror - they spent 200m more than us and started with a better squad before that.

Sevilla was one fixture, people need to get over it when looking at the bigger picture.

I'm not saying

We didnt have that many injury problems. Every team has injuries, ours last season were probably less then at any point in the last 5 years (and with fergie they were always bad too).
The problem with last season is that the football got worse and worse as the season went on, so many off field issues, so many under performing players, and just looking like a poorly coached side. It's why many of us were relieved at the world cup, a chance to relax and watch stress free enjoyable football, and why this season feels like just a continuation from last and why the mood going into the season seemed so depressed. All stemmed from last season.

Finishing 2nd just covered up how many issues we had, and now they are coming to light as theres not a chance we overperform relative to our performances to that extent again.

Herrera was out for a couple months, Fellaini out for a couple months, Carrick out for most the first half of the season, Pogba out from Nov to Sept (he missed 12 games) and Bailey out for 4 months with major ankle surgery.

It's not really a coincidence that we were out the the title race and football turned sour when we had injuries and had to call upon McTominay to save us. Not that it's his fault because he did OK for his experience, but it's terrible luck on the injury front being congested mainly in one position.

 

[bosnian_red]

We were fine to watch in the first half of the season.

Then we got injuries and became shit to watch. City ran away with the title. Shock horror - they spent 200m more than us and started with a better squad before that.

Sevilla was one fixture, people need to get over it when looking at the bigger picture.

I'm not saying


Herrera was out for a couple months, Fellaini out for a couple months, Carrick out for most the first half of the season, Pogba out from Nov to Sept (he missed 12 games) and Bailey out for 4 months with major ankle surgery.

It's not really a coincidence that we were out the the title race and football turned sour when we had injuries and had to call upon McTominay to save us. Not that it's his fault because he did OK for his experience, but it's terrible luck on the injury front being congested mainly in one position.

And most people were pretty happy with the first half of the season. Or at least weren't dramatically upset about not being in the title race. It's the 2nd half of the season that was absolutely dreadful to watch. No injury excuses, just we got dramatically worse and worse to watch. We signed Sanchez to replace Martial who was probably in our top 3 for that first half of the season, who had an incredibly shit 5 months after he signed, far worse than if we just stuck with Martial and Rashford to rotate, and in the same signing more or less killed any hope Martial had to be a regular under Mourinho. Then came regular awful performances, mixed in with a couple of random good games like Liverpool at home, but completely changing tactics for the Sevilla games and that being incredibly shite. We were lucky to not lose by a few goals in the first leg, and then outplayed at home and deservedly knocked out. To fecking Sevilla. The style of play got worse and worse, all the shite with Pogba, Sanchez playing every game despite playing like absolute ass, and so on. It was awful and just a sign of things to come with Mourinho, and then a pretty shit performance against a Chelsea side who had completely turned on their manager in the FA Cup final. And that's not after 1.5 successful seasons. The first season we finished 6th! Winning the Europa League saved it from being an absolute failure of a season.

People turned on him long ago, and at this point the only thing people can say for the "Mourinho In" POV is that we finished 2nd (but 19 points off the champions). So fecking what. Arsenal finished 2nd a few years ago and apart from last season, finished above us every single year post Fergie I think. Chelsea won the title 2 seasons ago then finished 5th last year, yet they couldn't wait to get rid of Conte. Spurs finished 2nd once or twice in the recent past, and are always in the top 4. It means nothing. Saying we're happy with Mourinho so far is saying you're happy with playing like absolute shit and being the most boring big side to watch in Europe while still not competing for the big trophies.

 

[VP89]

And most people were pretty happy with the first half of the season. Or at least weren't dramatically upset about not being in the title race. It's the 2nd half of the season that was absolutely dreadful to watch. No injury excuses, just we got dramatically worse and worse to watch. We signed Sanchez to replace Martial who was probably in our top 3 for that first half of the season, who had an incredibly shit 5 months after he signed, far worse than if we just stuck with Martial and Rashford to rotate, and in the same signing more or less killed any hope Martial had to be a regular under Mourinho. Then came regular awful performances, mixed in with a couple of random good games like Liverpool at home, but completely changing tactics for the Sevilla games and that being incredibly shite. We were lucky to not lose by a few goals in the first leg, and then outplayed at home and deservedly knocked out. To fecking Sevilla. The style of play got worse and worse, all the shite with Pogba, Sanchez playing every game despite playing like absolute ass, and so on. It was awful and just a sign of things to come with Mourinho, and then a pretty shit performance against a Chelsea side who had completely turned on their manager in the FA Cup final. And that's not after 1.5 successful seasons. The first season we finished 6th! Winning the Europa League saved it from being an absolute failure of a season.

People turned on him long ago, and at this point the only thing people can say for the "Mourinho In" POV is that we finished 2nd (but 19 points off the champions). So fecking what. Arsenal finished 2nd a few years ago and apart from last season, finished above us every single year post Fergie I think. Chelsea won the title 2 seasons ago then finished 5th last year, yet they couldn't wait to get rid of Conte. Spurs finished 2nd once or twice in the recent past, and are always in the top 4. It means nothing. Saying we're happy with Mourinho so far is saying you're happy with playing like absolute shit and being the most boring big side to watch in Europe while still not competing for the big trophies.

We've never finished 2nd since SAF and we had a respectable points total. Arsenal finished 2nd at 10 pts less than ours. 81 pts in that season would have won us the league. Its not just that, but our goal difference was greatest last season too. We moved from 6th to 2nd so put whatever rubbish anti Mourinho spin you want, we undeniably progressed.

As for the boring football, it came for half a season. Literally half a season of form is what most the anti mourinho bandwagon is depending on to rule out any turnaround and ignore his CV and experience all together. They keep pointing to a 3rd season curse card when we are 3 games in.

I'd understand the media doing it but our own fans obviously have to get behind the manager rather than call it quits 3 games in. He's made the side better, he's made the results better.

 

[jlecesne]

Here is an interesting take:

Do we think Mourinho wants to remain the manager an Manchester United?

 

[#07]

We've never finished 2nd since SAF and we had a respectable points total. Arsenal finished 2nd at 10 pts less than ours. 81 pts in that season would have won us the league. Its not just that, but our goal difference was greatest last season too. We moved from 6th to 2nd so put whatever rubbish anti Mourinho spin you want, we undeniably progressed.

As for the boring football, it came for half a season. Literally half a season of form is what most the anti mourinho bandwagon is depending on to rule out any turnaround and ignore his CV and experience all together. They keep pointing to a 3rd season curse card when we are 3 games in.

I'd understand the media doing it but our own fans obviously have to get behind the manager rather than call it quits 3 games in. He's made the side better, he's made the results better.

Agreed. Its all very strange. I'd imagine if we were boring but won 35 league games 1-0 nobody would be complaining.

Part of me hates to admit it but it seems like we will find it very tough to win the title for the foreseeable future. If we, as fans, go into meltdown everytime it seems far off then we're in for a lot of angry years.

 

[fergies coat]

He definitely deserves until the end of the season. He’s earned that by winning the Europa league, and finishing second. We weren’t even in the champions league when he took over. People have very short memories. Let’s get to the end of the season and assess it then.

 

[WR10]

I too am Jose In, now more than ever. But I think he needs to get the players more on his side.
When Fergie was here, he created a siege mentality - the fans, players, the club vs the rest of the World - and this is what we need once again.
You cannot underestimate that if an athlete (or football player) has it is in his head that it's us vs the World, during the match, that player can summon extra reserves of energy.
My problem is that Pogba is not doing this right now. IMO, he should be our best player, but he isn't acting like it.
I remember when Pogba played his first match at OT, he was like a rabid animal attempting to win the match by himself and Jose was hugely complimentary at the end of the match, about him. That's the kind of performance we need. And I have noticed that when Pogba plays well, the whole team plays well.

Very much agree with the Fergie siege mentality. Judging on how all our players have been playing + their interviews and social media posts since spurs, there’s no doubt Mourinho has got them laser focused. The problem with Pogba is that his ego is bigger than anyone else’s and that’s why he has moments that are not usually in sync with the rest of the team. There’s a reason why Fergie found him unserviceable, and that’s because there are some characters are too hard to mold. Pogba only puts in his 100% when he wants to - and it’s easy to do so when you have the World Cup motivation but not a weeek in week out league. If we can have the team firing on all cylinders without him, then his fluctuations in mood and performances wouldn’t be too apparent anyway.

 

[Bubz27]

Stephen Warnock repeating almost word for word what Carragher said about Jose never coming out of a rough patch at a club before and how he usually.

Unbelievable quality of media in this country.

 

[bosnian_red]

We've never finished 2nd since SAF and we had a respectable points total. Arsenal finished 2nd at 10 pts less than ours. 81 pts in that season would have won us the league. Its not just that, but our goal difference was greatest last season too. We moved from 6th to 2nd so put whatever rubbish anti Mourinho spin you want, we undeniably progressed.

As for the boring football, it came for half a season. Literally half a season of form is what most the anti mourinho bandwagon is depending on to rule out any turnaround and ignore his CV and experience all together. They keep pointing to a 3rd season curse card when we are 3 games in.

I'd understand the media doing it but our own fans obviously have to get behind the manager rather than call it quits 3 games in. He's made the side better, he's made the results better.

"From 6th to 2nd". You do know he's the one that got us to 6th, going down from the 5th place that got Van Gaal sacked? You're saying "best finish since Sir Alex" like it's a good achievement. Moyes and LvG got sacked for how they did. So it's not really praise worthy to say he is doing better, when it was hard to do much worse (which he did in his first season if you only look at league results like you are doing for his second season). Especially after the amount he's spent. The whole draw of Mourinho is instant success anyway. If he doesn't provide it, then he has failed. He doesn't build for the future. He spends a feck ton to win right away at the cost of any entertaining play style. The play style has been awful, and we haven't been successful. So what exactly are you hoping for? Mourinho has never in his career turned a bad situation around. It always ends in shit results and the inevitable sack. People want him gone now before this whole season is wasted, because that's the only way it's going. I don't give a feck about what Mourinho did a decade ago with previous clubs. Those clubs aren't Manchester United. It was a different age, and none of that is applicable to the current situation in football. Mourinho in his 3rd season at Chelsea had them with the worst title defence of all time, worse then even Moyes did.

And no, boring football didn't only come for half a season. It's been for most of the 2 years. That isn't even the whole issue though. Fewer people would be upset if we were a good pragmatic side like Atletico Madrid are. We aren't at all. We aren't organized defensively, we don't counter well, we don't keep the ball well, we don't deal well under pressure and far too often have to turn to a plan B in hoofing the ball because plan A rarely works. That's not a well coached side. That's been an issue since October of last year pretty much. We leak chances all the time, we struggle to create if it's not through a random moment of brilliance or from an opposition mistake. You wonder what we actually do in training to look as disjointed on the pitch as we do.

We'll see. I will be shocked if we even finish in the top 4 this season, let alone turn this season around and with 0 signs of it and play a good style of football. What is most depressing about this season is seeing City dominate the way they do, Liverpool progress to another level and play attacking football every week, Spurs not signing anyone but looking miles better than us, and even Chelsea changing their manager to join in with the other 3 in playing an attacking style of football and getting good results.

Obviously I understand why Mourinho's job wasn't questioned after last season. 2nd place is alright on paper, though it is my personal preference that I would much rather sacrifice a few positions to play more exciting football. That's why I'm firmly against Mourinho and really can't see myself ever changing that. Give me Liverpools season last year over ours in a heartbeat, even if you ignore them reaching the CL final. So many things are wrong with the club even apart from Mourinho, and we are just getting more and more separated from what our traditions are, and feel more and more like a business. So if that is the case, I would rather at least play some exciting football to have something to be happy about when talking about United.

 

[carvajal]

I think all of the issues you mention can improve in the short-term. All of them probably won't, but IMV the hierarchical issues at the club are the biggest concern. A new manager would not address that in the slightest. I'm definitely not basing my reasons for backing Jose on one game, whatever gave you that impression.

Pogba is a case unto himself. For his own sake he needs to grow up, quickly. What's at play there is the player's own mentality. Martial seems also to have a poor mentality, but there Jose is more at fault which ties in with Sanchez arriving, who like you say, has been below par. Too early to judge this season. I expect him to have much better performances.

The two defenders you mention that aren't as good as expected, I'd say weren't maybe bought with the expectation that they'd slot right in and be first XI players (check out the latest Transfer Window podcast, Castles is reminding us that Smalling, Jones, Bailly and Lindelof were all bought as promising young defenders) we've not got any defenders on our books who were bought as the real deal, which is what Jose wanted this season.

We can pick out various negatives but the accumulation of them don't outweigh the positives of Jose's managerial reign for me, and not all of them are down to the manager. I don't think getting in a new manager would do anything positive for the stability of the club. I think we need to buy into the development of the last 2 years. If the club backs Jose beyond January I would certainly expect 1 or 2 signings that he specifically wants.

You've had Zizou yourself, do you think like quite a few people think that he'd walk in here and all the players would be happy and in awe and churn out top performances that would result in some serious title challenge? Is he that much of a miracle worker in your view?

You are not going to find the real deal, the defenses are like a clock, they need to adjust and being a level coach should be able to get juice from those players. The classic example is Simeone.
Or be able to manage them from youth, like Giménez or Varane.
I understand that they do not want to spend so much in Maguire or Alderweireld.
In any case the jewels of any club are the creative midfielders and the attackers, and I think the players need a restart. Or on the contrary, sell them and buy new ones.
About Pogba and Martial,maybe the mentality is fine but is maybe is a coach problem? Pogba just won a World Cup. I think he had already grown in Juve.
Zidane is not a god, but he was a mythical player, and now a mythical trainer.
He was one of the best,played against them and trained them.It conveys the feeling of trying to improve, knowing that if there is talent, minutes will be achieved, as if he was a real yardstick.
And what to say about the relationship with the french players (and attraction in the market). It's like the children of 12 years in the academy of Madrid. Yesterday morning they found that their coach is Xabi Alonso.
In short, a sense of respect and demand that I think Mourinho has lost.
I'm not saying they're going to boycott him but I do not see them dying for him in the pitch.

 

[buckooo1978]

Interesting stat about my choice for our new manager

thoughts from Mourinho in supporters?

 

[The Firestarter]

Here is an interesting take:

Do we think Mourinho wants to remain the manager an Manchester United?

No, but he quiere Benjamin Franko in the Banko.

 

[pocco]

We should have sacked him at the end of last season, which I argued then.

The sad truth is that we (or those that pulled their heads from their arses) could see where this was heading from about half way into his first season, even in spite of the cups we just about won.

The biggest mistake Woodward made this summer was not pulling the trigger completely. We'll wait until it's too late again, too.

Where is it heading? Jose has a beef with the press, but since before the start of the season he's shut up about his complaints regarding transfers, he's been positive about his players and the players still seem to be trying their best for him. Ok we had a poor performance against Brighton, but that alone makes it far too premature to start with the "I told you so" type remarks.

It honestly feel like a section of our fans, along with the media, are so desperate for there to be a problem that they're trying to keep the embers of the summer burning to create one themselves.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

Where is it heading? Jose has a beef with the press, but since before the start of the season he's shut up about his complaints regarding transfers, he's been positive about his players and the players still seem to be trying their best for him. Ok we had a poor performance against Brighton, but that alone makes it far too premature to start with the "I told you so" type remarks.

It honestly feel like a section of our fans, along with the media, are so desperate for there to be a problem that they're trying to keep the embers of the summer burning to create one themselves.

People have always hinted there are journos on here. Maybe they are right and they are on here stoking the fires.

 

[Robbie Boy]

There is nothing that points to us going into a free-fall. We played terribly against Brighton but against Spurs we were much better. Mourinho wanted a reaction and he got one. If the players are still willing to put in the effort, which Monday's game suggests they are, why should we anticipate dropping like a stone? If we had lost to Spurs in the same manner that we lost to Brighton I'd agree with you. That wasn't the case and the stats bare that out (link).

How is the us vs them mentality backfiring? Again, there's little to indicate from the players that they aren't behind him. We have had two public statements of discontent: From Martial via his agent and from Pogba via implication. That's two from a very large first team squad. In recent days both officially and unofficially the us vs them mentality has been endorsed by people like Bryan Robson and David de Gea. So where is the evidence that Mourinho's desire to build a siege mentality is failing? There seem to have been enough people left in the Stretford End on Monday night buying into it after full time.

I don't understand your point about comparing eras, are you saying because managers don't get a lot of time we can no longer say United have bounced back from bad weeks before? I'm not sure there's a causal link between both things. The amount of time a manager has at United doesn't seem obviously related to the club's ability to recover from two dissapointing results and go on a run.

Ok, there’s not much point in this as we are seeing things from very different perspectives. I don’t see a three nil defeat at home to Tottenham as any sort of positive. Wow we played well for half an hour; we should absolutely be going for the kill when any team visit Old Trafford. Ultimately we failed to score and looked a mess in defence so I can’t laud the performance especially given Spurs also missed a-few sitters of their own. What I see is two defeats in games where we conceded 6 goals. Out of those two games, I would say anything less than 4 points is poor, we got zero.

I don’t really see it as an indication that the players are ‘playing for him’. We were at home, they’re paid millions by the club so the least they can do is listen to their managers instructions. Conversely, I don’t think he’s lost the dressing room either. I think there’s some internal conflicts but neither of us can verify nor deny that.

The “them v us” bollox is failing on all counts as he’s losing it in the media. The state of that ‘respect’ rant. Had Klopp etc done that, we would have laughed a-lot. He’s the one creating that mentality and it’s backfiring as he’s edgy in interviews and people are getting to him.

Again, I can’t agree at all. I outlined why the two eras are completely different. I don’t see it as a bad few games. I see it as a mess of a summer in which the club was dragged through the mud followed by a shite pre-season and a shite start to the season. Prior to that, the cracks were starting to appear last season. We started the season well but as time went by, we started to play some terrible stuff and a huge wave of negativity was sweeping the place just before the summer started. The Seville game was just bizarre as was the FA Cup Final.

 

[ash_86]

Interesting stat about my choice for our new manager

thoughts from Mourinho in supporters?

Walker, Rose, Kane, Erikesen, Vetonghen, Dembele, Paulinho , Lloris

These are very good players. Except Lloris and maybe Paulinho others would make our first 11. Im not even including utility players like Gyfi , Lamela et all.

Here is the squad Jose inherited https://www.transfermarkt.com/manchester-united/startseite/verein/985?saison_id=2015

But i agree with you , Potch will be a very good manager for us if we could get him

 

[buckooo1978]

Walker, Rose, Kane, Erikesen, Vetonghen, Dembele, Paulinho , Lloris

These are very good players. Except Lloris and maybe Paulinho others would make our first 11. Im not even including utility players like Gyfi , Lamela et all.

Here is the squad Jose inherited https://www.transfermarkt.com/manchester-united/startseite/verein/985?saison_id=2015

But i agree with you , Potch will be a very good manager for us if we could get him

He's had a role in developing the likes of Walker, Kane etc

of the players he's bought there have been some great signings for next to nothing like Toby, Davies, Alli - Sissoko would be the one signing you'd consider a failure

and all that with a positive net spend

contrast that with us....spent a fortune, pay a fortune in wages, minimal development of players and we don't have a functional team or a CB partnership we can trust

I'd pay 50 million to get Poch