The Mourinho Thread: Should he stay or go? | Sacked

[buckooo1978]

They struck gold in the first couple of years of Poch with the likes of Alli, Dier and Alderweireld for peanuts while Kane coming through at the same time saved a fortune in trying to find a striker. This was after making obvious (to me at least) quality signings in the likes of Dembele, Vertonghen and Eriksen.

We had a bigger financial advantage over our rivals then than we do now, £100m went a lot further. Crucially at the same time we had LVG in charge who had no idea how to put together a squad for the PL, wasting millions on duds while selling proven quality or potential. Mourinho would have put together a far stronger squad during that period with the money available compared to our rivals.

true but he was developing players as well

had you suggested Walker would move for 50 million a couple of years later people would have called you crazy - replaced him with Trippier for 4 million and change

he seems to be astute in the transfer market and has been able to attract high profile players (Moura/Aurier) from big clubs at good prices

obviously there are elements of luck with any signing and Kane but you'd only say Sissoko and Janssen were failures - he's done well with the young players coming up as well - some managers like Jose - would he have had the patience with Kane after his slow initial development - I'd question that

 

[Amir]

Yeah well, you are just forgetting that the man has won everything with different teams and players so maybe maybe the players that have never won anything, maybe they are the one to be rubbish indeed

At the same time, with his last two clubs he managed to take good, proven players - ones who won the league for him and somehow turn them into crap in his third season.

Anyhow, if the players are rubbish - they certainly aren't - he's the one who bought them. For tons of money. So it's his fault either way.

 

[hn4manunited]

League position definitely can lie. In terms of finish vs performances, we probably shouldve been 4th IMO. But we were clinical and De Gea was godlike pretty often, so we stayed 2nd. Others were nowhere near as clinical as we were, hence finished behind us. Our first season we were wasteful so finished 6th, but shouldve been higher based on our performances IMO. Anyway, if it doesnt lie, why are we suddenly complete trash if we only improved on the side that finished 2nd last year? If you told us last September that we would sign Alexis Sanchez and a 50m midfielder and a young right back, people would be fecking delighted and expect a title challenge with 0 excuses. Now people would be delighted (and surprised) with top 4. Its what Mourinho does these days, manages the expectations to make his failure seem like a success.

In terms of talking about those trophies we won. They're 2nd rate trophies. Nobody gives a feck about Carabao cup winners, and big teams would rather not be in the Europa league at all. But it wasn't Mous fault we were, and we won, so fair play there. I said before, the first 18 months werent the problem with him. It wasnt amazing, but was passable, with the key being that in the period after that we had to push on. It was this entire calendar year that is the big problem. After 2 years, we should be far better than what we are. We shouldnt be complaining that we only spent 75m this summer (after Mourinho himself said in January he didnt expect big business and counted Alexis Sanchez as a summer signing). 18 months is a good amount of time to transition it into your own team and the coaching to really start kicking in and progressing. Instead, weve pretty much collapsed the past 8 months, the football getting far worse, constant off field issues, Mourinho blaming everyone but himself and coming up with new excuses, insulting the clubs history to excuse his own defeats. The list goes on.

I'll address specifically the bolded question of yours. The players and coaches are humans. Not properly match fit, coming back from injury, burned out from world cup, out of sync with team mates, new ideas, new egos, etc...You cannot guarantee a team to play equally well season to season. You cannot even guarantee a team to play equally well throughout the same season or even from match to match. Hence, the points total over a season and their league position don't lie. If you are consistent in your performances throughout the season, you'll have a special season like City. Why did City drop points against Wolves the other day? Shouldn't City trash Wolves 6-0 based on what we usually see from them? Why did Liverpool not destroy Brighton 4-0 or 5-0 based on how superior people on this forum seem to think Liverpool's offence is and how shite everyone seem to think Brighton are.

 

[hn4manunited]

Anyway, to the Mourinho in people who struggle to understand why people want him out. Why did you start watching or playing football and start following United? What United sides do you always remember when you look back fondly?

No child grows up and dreams of Mourinho style football. People play football because it's fun for them, they watch it for entertainment and fall in love with their clubs because they are either born into it, or grew up loving how they played. That's why football style will always be so important. That's why its imperative to be entertained. If everybody played like Mourinho, the amount of football fans in this world would dramatically decrease and it would not be the top sport in the world, because it would be so fecking boring almost every game.

Everyone here dreams of the day United return to playing great football and are at the top again. That sure as feck is not going to happen with Mourinho. So people want to move on as soon as possible and get someone in who gives them hope and reasons to be optimistic again.

Speaking for myself, i enjoy football that has individuality to the character of play. So, the tiki taka football drives me insane. In my humble opinion, i find that to be anti-football. I grew up watching players with brilliant individual skills amongst team plays. I am not attracted to passing opponents to death type of football. I like the kind of football where players get to express themselves and allow their individual characters shine in influencing the game.

I don't need to pick out successful seasons to think back fondly. There are magical moments, plays, etc. I don't need seasons after seasons of success to find fond moments in supporting my club.

 

[GlastonSpur]

The thing is with spurs, their hands are tied most of the time. Even £40m is a lot money for them and hence they take punt on players such as Alli and if it works out great else its not a major loss. When they sold Bale and had £100m in bank i think they blew it up on absolute garbages. So having less money to spend is both boon and bane for Tottenham and combined with the Expectations of the club has made Potch's job much easier. Here he would be having 150M to spend each season and hence the pressure to get it right in transfers. I agree with you that he would bring some sense of shape to our players and coach them well. It's a risky punt but maybe worth it.

That's only partially true. The players we signed with the Bale money included Eriksen and Lamela.

 

[Miscemayl]

Anyway, to the Mourinho in people who struggle to understand why people want him out. Why did you start watching or playing football and start following United? What United sides do you always remember when you look back fondly?

No child grows up and dreams of Mourinho style football. People play football because it's fun for them, they watch it for entertainment and fall in love with their clubs because they are either born into it, or grew up loving how they played. That's why football style will always be so important. That's why its imperative to be entertained. If everybody played like Mourinho, the amount of football fans in this world would dramatically decrease and it would not be the top sport in the world, because it would be so fecking boring almost every game.

Everyone here dreams of the day United return to playing great football and are at the top again. That sure as feck is not going to happen with Mourinho. So people want to move on as soon as possible and get someone in who gives them hope and reasons to be optimistic again.

I'm fairly sure no one is saying they love the style of football we are playing.

At least I'm not.

But I am Mourinho In because I can see what he's trying to do and the progress he's making. I can see the plan in his transfer and confident that if he was backed this summer, he would further improve the team. Plenty drone on about his spending but he only bought in 6 or 7 players for first team. And the majority of them are clear improvements to the team. But more importantly, most of them are NOT world class players. Only Pogba and Sanchez would be in that conversation. The rest are good players. The fact that we paid WC player prices for most of our players is thanks to Ed, and we shouldn't use their price tag to judge Mourinho. Use their ability to judge him and to me, his purchases improved the team.

And I am confident that a better style will come once he gets the right pieces in. Plenty of his old teams were successful AND attacked well. He certainly is capable of it but he needs to get the right pieces in place. And I trust him to get it done above other managers, because he's done it multiple times. He's won the EPL 3 times and the CL twice.

The fact that he hasn't done it yet in 2 years is more reflective of the shit he inherited than a question on his ability. The progress in the last 2 years in terms of league positions, trophies, the strength of the team and even the style of our play is obvious. We are clearly not back to SAF days but that's the nirvana. We are definitely much better than the LVG days

 

[hn4manunited]

Did you enjoy the Spurs game? We attacked plenty, just didn't finish well. Are you telling me you didn't complain about the result? Or are you just saying you prefer style over results to negate the fact we came second last season and use style to as a stick to beat Mourinho? But when we play an attacking style but lose, you're equally up in arms?

And "instant success" is relative. Despite only having 2 seasons, he's won more trophies than Poch and Klopp combined despite both having stayed for longer. In the league, he beat both of them last season. And if you say it's because Mourinho spent more so we should beat them then based on that logic, Pep spent more than Jose so how is it a failure losing to City? That's not even taking into account the difference in the teams Pep and Jose inherited. If you don't deem having the best league position since SAF's departure as progress, don't see second as something worth celebrating and demands our manager to win the league to be regarded as going well, then I am afraid you'll be disappointed with every manager we'll get going forward.

As for us being a team of strangers that seemingly can't attack or defend, then the rest of the EPL managers, apart from Pep, should be sacked. They all lost to this pub team.

Nail on head! Bravo.

 

[el3mel]

Anyway, to the Mourinho in people who struggle to understand why people want him out. Why did you start watching or playing football and start following United? What United sides do you always remember when you look back fondly?

No child grows up and dreams of Mourinho style football. People play football because it's fun for them, they watch it for entertainment and fall in love with their clubs because they are either born into it, or grew up loving how they played. That's why football style will always be so important. That's why its imperative to be entertained. If everybody played like Mourinho, the amount of football fans in this world would dramatically decrease and it would not be the top sport in the world, because it would be so fecking boring almost every game.

Everyone here dreams of the day United return to playing great football and are at the top again. That sure as feck is not going to happen with Mourinho. So people want to move on as soon as possible and get someone in who gives them hope and reasons to be optimistic again.

Mourinho has never been a parking bus manager every game. All his previous teams are used to be tight and strong at the back but have very quick transition from defense to offense once they cut the ball and play with fast tempo. This United side is everything anti-Mourinho. It can't defend well and is very slow with carrying the ball forward. No Mourinho team previously was that shite, static and slow. I have enjoyed most of his previous teams kind of football of being fast, direct and quick transition while being tight and compact at the back.

In fact it's my problem with him that he failed to implement his style here. I would be over the moon if he could have but this team is far from anything Mourinho has applied in his life.

 

[bosnian_red]

Who will make us play great football and put us on top again, with our current squad? Genuinely interested to know who that is.

No clue. But I would take good football over shit football and mediocre results. So that's a start. I'm not the one who hires the manager, that's also why it's not some easy thing to find a top manager. But you don't settle with something that is blatantly wrong just because you failed a few times and this is marginally better.

 

[bosnian_red]

Mourinho has never been a parking bus manager every game. All his previous teams are used to be tight and strong at the back but have very quick transition from defense to offense once they cut the ball and play with fast tempo. This United side is everything anti-Mourinho. It can't defend well and is very slow with carrying the ball forward. No Mourinho team previously was that shite, static and slow. I have enjoyed most of his previous teams kind of football of being fast, direct and quick transition while being tight and compact at the back.

In fact it's my problem with him that he failed to implement his style here. I would be over the moon if he could have but this team is far from anything Mourinho has applied in his life.

Agree with this. Mourinho had plenty of sides that were decent enough all around, but if you only look at what he's done at United, he has completely failed to make his mark on the side and implement anything. We suck defensively, we suck on the break, we suck in possession. You struggle to see any coaching impact.

 

[el3mel]

Agree with this. Mourinho had plenty of sides that were decent enough all around, but if you only look at what he's done at United, he has completely failed to make his mark on the side and implement anything. We suck defensively, we suck on the break, we suck in possession. You struggle to see any coaching impact.

That's exactly my main problem with him so far.

 

[Bastian]

You are not going to find the real deal, the defenses are like a clock, they need to adjust and being a level coach should be able to get juice from those players. The classic example is Simeone.
Or be able to manage them from youth, like Giménez or Varane.
I understand that they do not want to spend so much in Maguire or Alderweireld.
In any case the jewels of any club are the creative midfielders and the attackers, and I think the players need a restart. Or on the contrary, sell them and buy new ones.
About Pogba and Martial,maybe the mentality is fine but is maybe is a coach problem? Pogba just won a World Cup. I think he had already grown in Juve.
Zidane is not a god, but he was a mythical player, and now a mythical trainer.
He was one of the best,played against them and trained them.It conveys the feeling of trying to improve, knowing that if there is talent, minutes will be achieved, as if he was a real yardstick.
And what to say about the relationship with the french players (and attraction in the market). It's like the children of 12 years in the academy of Madrid. Yesterday morning they found that their coach is Xabi Alonso.
In short, a sense of respect and demand that I think Mourinho has lost.
I'm not saying they're going to boycott him but I do not see them dying for him in the pitch.

I don't doubt Zidane would have a very impressionable effect on the players. But I just don't think Mourinho is any way past it. There are individual parts here I could address, such as Pogba winning a World Cup proves how good he is. He's a top class player on his day. Those days aren't often enough. If you can't get motivated for a World Cup you just aren't a footballer. That bit about understanding the club did not want to fork out money to sign a proven experienced defender, well, I don't understand it. Unless it's because the money isn't there. All our defenders have been bought as promising young players. If Varane had been thrown in right away at Real he might not have become the player he is today. He had to oust Pepe from the side, and he had an enormously experienced Ramos next to him. No such thing for United. You can compare things with Atletico, but I'm wary of comparison where the expectation and spotlight is far far less. I'm sure most of our players would play better with less expectations.

And I don't think Mourinho has lost respect within the game, but he certainly has from journalists, which counts for feck all to be honest (and some pundits, but let's be honest, there are so many pundits out there, ex players, who have almost nothing to offer as human beings).

 

[bosnian_red]

Did you enjoy the Spurs game? We attacked plenty, just didn't finish well. Are you telling me you didn't complain about the result? Or are you just saying you prefer style over results to negate the fact we came second last season and use style to as a stick to beat Mourinho? But when we play an attacking style but lose, you're equally up in arms?

And "instant success" is relative. Despite only having 2 seasons, he's won more trophies than Poch and Klopp combined despite both having stayed for longer. In the league, he beat both of them last season. And if you say it's because Mourinho spent more so we should beat them then based on that logic, Pep spent more than Jose so how is it a failure losing to City? That's not even taking into account the difference in the teams Pep and Jose inherited. If you don't deem having the best league position since SAF's departure as progress, don't see second as something worth celebrating and demands our manager to win the league to be regarded as going well, then I am afraid you'll be disappointed with every manager we'll get going forward.

As for us being a team of strangers that seemingly can't attack or defend, then the rest of the EPL managers, apart from Pep, should be sacked. They all lost to this pub team.

I actually said right when we conceded the goals when one of the threads were made that this game shouldn't be used as the reason why (at the time). I did enjoy the first half. We showed a good amount of attacking threat, created chances, and just showed bad finishing. The problem was that by the end of the game it very much looked like a smaller side being pumped up for a game, and after a frantic 30 minutes, the big side took control and then got a comfortable win in the end after a dominant 2nd half. Obviously we are a much bigger side then Spurs, but that's how the game played out. We couldn't keep up our pressing for more then 30 minutes or so, the pace in our play died down (a lot of it was long balls and then high pressing to cause problems, but it worked in that first half), and the 2nd half we did pretty much nothing.

Also I really hate when people do the comparison of results vs style as strictly black and white. You can have both, just like we have both no style and no results right now.

Mourinho did well in big games last season (for the most part, also if you ignore arguably the 2 biggest games of the season with the FA Cup final and the Sevilla games). I gave him credit for that plenty of times over the year. It does feel like it's the only thing he can motivate the team for, even if he does go defensive in them. Against everyone else, our style of play is pretty tumescent.

And no, I'm not demanding everyone to win the title or even challenge for it. I've said time and time again I would in a second take a few years of transition while developing a good, attacking style of football with clear signs of progression to give you hope to reach the top. What Liverpool did with Klopp. What Spurs did with Poch. They both had smaller budgets, until Liverpool spent huge this year because Klopp brought everything out of the squad he had, and gave them hope that with a bit more spending they could reach another level. Pochettino has Spurs punching way above their financial budget and you would expect if they suddenly were capable of spending 150m every summer, that they would step it up even more. As a manager, a lot of times you have to first prove you deserve the funds. You have to bring the most out of your team and get the most out of your players. Get them playing well, get them reaching their potential. Then, if they aren't good enough, fine, buy better players and you expect to step up. But when most of the squad is playing below expectations, and we buy supposed world class players who also fail to perform, you question what the problem is, and usually that all points to the manager failing to get the most out of them.

 

[George The Best]

My opinion, getting rid of Jose right now is tantamount to committing suicide. No decent manager out there will take this squad on, unless they’re only in it for the money - and that doesn’t usually end well. We can argue day and night about why we’ve spent so much money and not improved, but i’m prepared to reserve judgement on that as it is still not clear who is actually making the buying decisions. As for comments on various threads about Jose not being able to motivate players - I give you Luke Shaw. Think he’s done a fantastic job there, wish Martial would heed the lesson.

 

[Z1L3]

The most ridiculous thing is the "football passed him by" claim.

Real Madrid won 3 Champions leagues playing pragmatic, Atletico Madrid is winning everything playing uber pragmatic, Jose is a little baby for Simeone, Juventus is dominating with the same style of play, last EUROs Portugal won with, what a surprise, mourinhoesq performances and this World Cup France won playing pragmatic counter attacking.

So, apart Guardiola, who spend shitloads of money on very best players, Klopp, Poch, some German coaches, where is this "new age to hard to understand" football? And if you exclude Pep, everyone else won shit on a stick.

Wonderful post.

 

[Miscemayl]

I actually said right when we conceded the goals when one of the threads were made that this game shouldn't be used as the reason why (at the time). I did enjoy the first half. We showed a good amount of attacking threat, created chances, and just showed bad finishing. The problem was that by the end of the game it very much looked like a smaller side being pumped up for a game, and after a frantic 30 minutes, the big side took control and then got a comfortable win in the end after a dominant 2nd half. Obviously we are a much bigger side then Spurs, but that's how the game played out. We couldn't keep up our pressing for more then 30 minutes or so, the pace in our play died down (a lot of it was long balls and then high pressing to cause problems, but it worked in that first half), and the 2nd half we did pretty much nothing.

Also I really hate when people do the comparison of results vs style as strictly black and white. You can have both, just like we have both no style and no results right now.

Mourinho did well in big games last season (for the most part, also if you ignore arguably the 2 biggest games of the season with the FA Cup final and the Sevilla games). I gave him credit for that plenty of times over the year. It does feel like it's the only thing he can motivate the team for, even if he does go defensive in them. Against everyone else, our style of play is pretty tumescent.

And no, I'm not demanding everyone to win the title or even challenge for it. I've said time and time again I would in a second take a few years of transition while developing a good, attacking style of football with clear signs of progression to give you hope to reach the top. What Liverpool did with Klopp. What Spurs did with Poch. They both had smaller budgets, until Liverpool spent huge this year because Klopp brought everything out of the squad he had, and gave them hope that with a bit more spending they could reach another level. Pochettino has Spurs punching way above their financial budget and you would expect if they suddenly were capable of spending 150m every summer, that they would step it up even more. As a manager, a lot of times you have to first prove you deserve the funds. You have to bring the most out of your team and get the most out of your players. Get them playing well, get them reaching their potential. Then, if they aren't good enough, fine, buy better players and you expect to step up. But when most of the squad is playing below expectations, and we buy supposed world class players who also fail to perform, you question what the problem is, and usually that all points to the manager failing to get the most out of them.

I agree with you that our style can be improved, and we are a long way from where we all want to be - successful and attacking.

But in the 2 years, Mourinho has improved the team is almost every aspect. Results, transfers, and even style. He took over from LVG, not SAF. As much as many moan about our football, it has actually improved. Definitely not as much as I have hoped but at the very least, it has not gone backwards.

So what has Mourinho done that is sackable?

Last 3 games have been shit but are we really saying sack him for 3 games after a pre season where most of the squad wasnt there?

Like I said in previous post, I trust him to take us where we want to be. He's a proven winner. But he's not a magician. He's only had 2 years and nothing he has done is sackable.

I am fine with people not singing his praises but sacking him? I am taking a longer term view and so far, we are on the right trajectory even if it is going slower than we hope.

 

[In Rainbows]

How is losing 3-1 and getting dominated throughout the match a challenge? I don't see any difference than us losing the title theoretically by December than Liverpool getting smacked by Madrid in the final.


Uhh, not really. I never compared our finish to Fergie, I compared our "title challenge" to Liverpool's "CL challenge". For some reason you think Klopp failing to win the CL is more of an accomplishment than Jose failing to win the PL.


Pathetic attempts to deflect. No, we did not challenge for the CL in 2011, we got completely dominated and never stood a chance. Difference is though, as great of a manager Fergie was, and I consider him the best ever, that Barcelona team we faced back then was possibly the greatest team ever. And I'm sorry to say, but back then our team was crap relatively wise to the rest of the big clubs, more than likely due to the chronic underinvestment we have been suffering under the Glazers. Even Fergie can't win with those odds

This is pathetic. Getting to the final of the CL is challenging for the CL title. The score is irrelevant. They were one step away from winning the CL title. And if the score is not irrelevant, then consider that Real Madrid won the CL title in the 2nd half of the match. So essentially you're saying Liverpool did not challenge for the CL title because they lost the match in the 2nd half.

On the other hand, being out of the title race by the end of December is not one step away from winning the PL title. It's pretty ridiculous that I have to explain this to you.

 

[Rory 7]

I’m backing our manager.

 

[Miscemayl]

My opinion, getting rid of Jose right now is tantamount to committing suicide. No decent manager out there will take this squad on, unless they’re only in it for the money - and that doesn’t usually end well. We can argue day and night about why we’ve spent so much money and not improved, but i’m prepared to reserve judgement on that as it is still not clear who is actually making the buying decisions. As for comments on various threads about Jose not being able to motivate players - I give you Luke Shaw. Think he’s done a fantastic job there, wish Martial would heed the lesson.

I agree.

We can rip everything up and start again once more but not sure what they would achieve. I struggle to name anyone that would be obviously an improvement to Mourinho across the board (not just style).

We can sack Mourinho and bring a new guy in and perhaps we can get us playing more attacking, but can he improve our results? He might be able to get more out of our players but will he be able to spend wisely? Will he have the clout to manage the egos in our squad? Will he fight for the football side of the club or be a yes man to the Glazers?

There is considerable risk and nothing Mourinho has done is sackable and justify taking this massive risk. Much rather stick with Mourinho and see where he can take us.

 

[Miscemayl]

On the other hand, being out of the title race by the end of December is not one step away from winning the PL title. It's pretty ridiculous that I have to explain this to you.

This is not Jose being shit. This is Pep being brilliant and City having a much stronger squad and more resources.

Every other club in the EPL were out of the title race by December.

Jose achieved the best of the rest.

 

[Dumbat12]

This is pathetic. Getting to the final of the CL is challenging for the CL title. The score is irrelevant. They were one step away from winning the CL title. And if the score is not irrelevant, then consider that Real Madrid won the CL title in the 2nd half of the match. So essentially you're saying Liverpool did not challenge for the CL title because they lost the match in the 2nd half.

What part of "Liverpool got dominated and lost thoroughly" you're unable to get? Liverpool never stood a chance. The match wasn't even close for you to claim that Liverpool challenged for the CL. Different style of competition, but the end result is the same - Liverpool got outplayed by Real, we got outplayed by City. I don't see why either of those are different.

You can't praise Klopp for losing the CL final while at the same time bashing Jose for finishing second place behind a record breaking City team. It's ridiculous.

On the other hand, being out of the title race by the end of December is not one step away from winning the PL title. It's pretty ridiculous that I have to explain this to you.

As @Miscemayl said, nobody could have won that season beside City. Even Sir Alex only ever managed to get 92 points. City had a freakish, one-off season that will rarely be replicated, let alone bettered. To hold that against Mourinho is stupid.

 

[In Rainbows]

Yes, and they won nothing and Mourihno's United won 2 trophies (not counting Charity Shield). And the next year they also won nothing and finished behind Mourihno's United.

It's really fascinating the extent to which Mourihno is judged by a different standard than his peers. Klopp and Poch haven't won anything and they are applauded. Klopp is hailed as a genius for making it to a final, but you will never hear anyone even mention that Mourihno played the FA final last year, because for him anything but winning a trophy is a failure.

You don't even hear anyone say that in the first year United was poor in the league because they played more games than any club in Europe and the squad was decimated by injuries, and two of the top 6 rivals were not even in Europe that season.

I guess he is The Special One because his failures are equal to their "successes".

I really don't care that Mourinho wins the Europa League and the League Cup. Those are not the titles he was hired to challenge for.

Yes Mourinho is judged by a different standard than his peers because his football is boring. How do you guys not understand this? Mourinho was only hired because we wanted success. We sacrificed exciting football for short term success.

If both Mourinho and Pochettino achieved 2nd, which season would you rather want? Obviously Pochettino's because his football is more entertaining. Literally there is no point to Mourinho if Mourinho is not challenging for titles. Even if you ignore that, Pochettino's 2nd place was 86 points which was better than last year's total of 81 points. All while spending much less, with no drama, and at the same time developing players.

Fine, we'll ignore style for just a moment. I'm assuming you guys don't care about that. The other reason why he's judged more harshly is because he hasn't achieved the absolute basics for us to believe in him. Mourinho teams in the past might have been boring, but they were still great on the counter. They were still rock solid in the back. Mourinho hasn't exactly achieved these two things. You might cite our defensive record, but you and Mou both realize we're not great in the back hence why you guys are blaming Woodward for not buying anyone. We're still very reliant on de Gea, who performs regardless of who our manager is as he's a keeper so his performances will only ever subtly be affected by the manager (for example, distribution).

I need reason to believe in Mourinho. If I see something as simple as movement lacking when we're attacking, I want my manager to fix that in 2 seasons. If the past successful Mourinho teams were great at counter attacking, I want my manager to show he's capable of bringing that to our side after 2 seasons. If not, why should I believe he's still the Mourinho of the past? Believe it or not, a lot of us were actually backing Mourinho up until the middle of last season where those fundamentals were not rectified.

This is not Jose being shit. This is Pep being brilliant and City having a much stronger squad and more resources.

Every other club in the EPL were out of the title race by December.

Jose achieved the best of the rest.

After the money spent I expected a title challenge after 2 seasons. I'm not going to change my goalposts from when he was hired. I could understand excusing him for not winning the title, but to not challenge past December?

Some of you guys need to go back and look at initial expectations. The bar has been continuously lowered for him for some odd reason.

 

[KingCana]

They struck gold in the first couple of years of Poch with the likes of Alli, Dier and Alderweireld for peanuts while Kane coming through at the same time saved a fortune in trying to find a striker. This was after making obvious (to me at least) quality signings in the likes of Dembele, Vertonghen and Eriksen.

We had a bigger financial advantage over our rivals then than we do now, £100m went a lot further. Crucially at the same time we had LVG in charge who had no idea how to put together a squad for the PL, wasting millions on duds while selling proven quality or potential. Mourinho would have put together a far stronger squad during that period with the money available compared to our rivals.

Yep. Gonna go off a tangent here a bit...

Been wondering, if Poch is this magical genius who turns shit into gold how come he hasn't managed to coach Sissoko into a world beater? If he will be so great for silky players how come he is yet to do it with Eric feckin Lamela? What happened to the striker (no idea what his name is) he bought that turned out wank and was loaned out/sold? How come Rose looked like a rabbit in headlights v Utd?

Why didn't Klopp crack on with his mental footie using Markovic', Origi, Moreno? Oh he needed better players did he? I mean, since their attacking play is so breathless surely Karius' blunders don't matter since they outscore the oppo, right?

Use same argument to analyze St. Pep.

 

[In Rainbows]

What part of "Liverpool got dominated and lost thoroughly" you're unable to get? Liverpool never stood a chance. The match wasn't even close for you to claim that Liverpool challenged for the CL. Different style of competition, but the end result is the same - Liverpool got outplayed by Real, we got outplayed by City. I don't see why either of those are different.

You can't praise Klopp for losing the CL final while at the same time bashing Jose for finishing second place behind a record breaking City team. It's ridiculous.

Again you're being unreasonable. I know we hate Liverpool, but to say a team did not challenge for the CL title because they lost in the 2nd half of the final is just crazy to me. It doesn't matter if they got outplayed once Salah was injured. They challenged for the title. Maybe if it was a one off match where Liverpool did not earn their place to compete in the final I would agree with you, but they had to keep advancing to get to that stage.

Again, I will not consider a 2nd place finish that was out of the title race by January, a title challenge. I'm sorry, but leagues and knockout competitions are two separate things. What does it mean to challenge? It means to be neck and neck for some period of time. In a knockout competition, getting to the final proves you were neck and neck with your finals opponent for the duration of the tournament. In a league, you're not neck and neck if you're out of it by the halfway point of the competition.

I don't think I'm being unfair because I have not changed the goalposts for his initial hiring. We sacrificed exciting football and long term building for successful short term Mourinho. I accepted that at the time. To me he has not delivered and he has not proven that he can get us back to where we belong. He has proven he's been a better United manager than LVG and Moyes, but nothing more than that.

 

[vivaronaldo]

he's done guys , board has stopped backing him , things are just gonna go from bad to worse and he hasn't helped himself with some really bizzare comments all throughout the summer

he's done

 

[ash_86]

That's only partially true. The players we signed with the Bale money included Eriksen and Lamela.

Point taken re Eriksen, Lamela is squad player you could do better.

 

[Cloud7]

One day closer to the end

 

[Neo_Mufc]

I may be wrong but IMO Jose is a short term fix manager. I understand the majority of football management is positioned like this however it feels like we signed him on the basis of we have not won a PL or even challenged for the CL in the past 3 years therefore we are going to go against our traditions and sign a manager who does not necessarily fit the philosophy of Man Utd.

Basically we want a big trophy and we want it now.

He's in his 3rd season, it hasn't worked out and tbh we look like we have regressed. What more is there for him to do?

The team lacks cohesion, We continue to play negative football and even when we made changes for the Spurs game we still lose, Mourinho is frustrated to a level where he is taking on Journo's, Woodward and Co failed to back his transfers this summer.

I backed Mourinho and still continue to do so as I stick by Man Utd and he is part of Man Utd but I don't think for a min that things won't go tits up for him because they will.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Seems we have those "cut me and pitchfork will pop up" type running around.

What kind of rubbish idiom is that?

 

[Keeps It tidy]

Yeah well, you are just forgetting that the man has won everything with different teams and players so maybe maybe the players that have never won anything, maybe they are the one to be rubbish indeed

Like Pogba, Sanchez, Mata,Matic De Gea, Jones, Smalling, Young, Valencia? Heck even Lindelof has two league titles, some cup wins in Portugal and an U-21 title. And obviously Fred was apart of bunch of title winning sides in the Ukraine

 

[WR10]

You'r getting his passion for United mixed up with his ego and self preservation.He knows the noose is around his neck and knows the trap door is about to open - his "passion" is no more than a condemned man delaying the inevidable.

What about the players?

 

[Waynne]

United through thick and thin. I stand by my team and my manager. Cmon United !!!!!!

 

[sam147]

So much nonsense. I'd argue Jose gets more out of his players than Poch. The stats prove it. We finished above spurs last season with a much worse squad. Do people think Poch is a magician? His style of play is naive and they risk so much even when they are leading. Not to mention the amount of set piece goals they score due to Eriksens sublime ability to cross. No manager on the planet would've got this squad 2nd last season. If Poch is such a player developing expert where's than Janssen fella? What happened to Lamela? How about Klopp? Why did he need Van Djik as well as Matip rather than developing Gomez? How about Baldy? Why didnt he develop zinchenko? Why did he buy Mahrez when he already has Sterling Silva and Sane? Why did he buy Laporte when he had Stones? Our fans are blinded by the media. Ozil played his best football under Jose. Ronaldo had his best season under Jose. Milito? Sneijder? Hazard? Lingard, Rashford and Martial all had their best seasons under Jose. But apparently he cant develop players. Jose pushes players to their limits and wants them to bounce back and be mentally strong. Shaw came out in support of him and look how he was playing giving it his all. Just because a certain Frenchman named Tony goes running to his agent everytime Jose looks at him in a mean way doesn't mean we should lie to ourselves and say one of the most successful managers of this generation doesnt know how to 'develop players or set up an attack'.

 

[hn4manunited]

So much nonsense. I'd argue Jose gets more out of his players than Poch. The stats prove it. We finished above spurs last season with a much worse squad. Do people think Poch is a magician? His style of play is naive and they risk so much even when they are leading. Not to mention the amount of set piece goals they score due to Eriksens sublime ability to cross. No manager on the planet would've got this squad 2nd last season. If Poch is such a player developing expert where's than Janssen fella? What happened to Lamela? How about Klopp? Why did he need Van Djik as well as Matip rather than developing Gomez? How about Baldy? Why didnt he develop zinchenko? Why did he buy Mahrez when he already has Sterling Silva and Sane? Why did he buy Laporte when he had Stones? Our fans are blinded by the media. Ozil played his best football under Jose. Ronaldo had his best season under Jose. Milito? Sneijder? Hazard? Lingard, Rashford and Martial all had their best seasons under Jose. But apparently he cant develop players. Jose pushes players to their limits and wants them to bounce back and be mentally strong. Shaw came out in support of him and look how he was playing giving it his all. Just because a certain Frenchman named Tony goes running to his agent everytime Jose looks at him in a mean way doesn't mean we should lie to ourselves and say one of the most successful managers of this generation doesnt know how to 'develop players or set up an attack'.

Agree on everything in your post. Just wait til we get to the next page and some member will come in here and create a post like this post never existed.

 

[hn4manunited]

Yep. Gonna go off a tangent here a bit...

Been wondering, if Poch is this magical genius who turns shit into gold how come he hasn't managed to coach Sissoko into a world beater? If he will be so great for silky players how come he is yet to do it with Eric feckin Lamela? What happened to the striker (no idea what his name is) he bought that turned out wank and was loaned out/sold? How come Rose looked like a rabbit in headlights v Utd?

Why didn't Klopp crack on with his mental footie using Markovic', Origi, Moreno? Oh he needed better players did he? I mean, since their attacking play is so breathless surely Karius' blunders don't matter since they outscore the oppo, right?

Use same argument to analyze St. Pep.

Nice logical post.

 

[hkjack]

So much nonsense. I'd argue Jose gets more out of his players than Poch. The stats prove it. We finished above spurs last season with a much worse squad. Do people think Poch is a magician? His style of play is naive and they risk so much even when they are leading. Not to mention the amount of set piece goals they score due to Eriksens sublime ability to cross. No manager on the planet would've got this squad 2nd last season. If Poch is such a player developing expert where's than Janssen fella? What happened to Lamela? How about Klopp? Why did he need Van Djik as well as Matip rather than developing Gomez? How about Baldy? Why didnt he develop zinchenko? Why did he buy Mahrez when he already has Sterling Silva and Sane? Why did he buy Laporte when he had Stones? Our fans are blinded by the media. Ozil played his best football under Jose. Ronaldo had his best season under Jose. Milito? Sneijder? Hazard? Lingard, Rashford and Martial all had their best seasons under Jose. But apparently he cant develop players. Jose pushes players to their limits and wants them to bounce back and be mentally strong. Shaw came out in support of him and look how he was playing giving it his all. Just because a certain Frenchman named Tony goes running to his agent everytime Jose looks at him in a mean way doesn't mean we should lie to ourselves and say one of the most successful managers of this generation doesnt know how to 'develop players or set up an attack'.

Jose spent much more money and having much worse squad than Poch?Squad is bad. Who's fault?
And you said Martial had his best season under Jose? How do you rate his performance under Van gaal?
and Lingard, Rashford? Young player keep developing, It makes sense when a player is better at age 23 than at age 21. I don't think you should give credit to Jose for these two young player.

 

[endless_wheelies]

 

[klsv]

Interesting stat about my choice for our new manager

thoughts from Mourinho in supporters?

What is this even trying to prove?

Pochettino took over at Spurs in 2014. Mourinho took over at United 2 years later. That is two extra years to build a team for Poch.

Both managers have finished second in the league with their current clubs while Mourinho won the Europa League in his first season, while Pochettino hasn't won shit.

Also the sums for which players go for is not manager's doings. Last summer Levy managed to sell Kevin Wimmer, Nabil Bentaleb and Clinton N'jie for a total of 40 millions. We have sold 30 million worth of players in two years, 60 mil in 3 years. Net spend means shit. This also proves how the market is so fecked right now that spending 300 millions over two season doesn't come with a guarantee of winning anything. Pochettino isn't going to win anything without his current, or his next club, spending more than Spurs are now.

 

[Rockets Redglare]

Nice to hear that from Giggs.

 

[Shinjch]

Yep. Gonna go off a tangent here a bit...

Been wondering, if Poch is this magical genius who turns shit into gold how come he hasn't managed to coach Sissoko into a world beater? If he will be so great for silky players how come he is yet to do it with Eric feckin Lamela? What happened to the striker (no idea what his name is) he bought that turned out wank and was loaned out/sold? How come Rose looked like a rabbit in headlights v Utd?

Why didn't Klopp crack on with his mental footie using Markovic', Origi, Moreno? Oh he needed better players did he? I mean, since their attacking play is so breathless surely Karius' blunders don't matter since they outscore the oppo, right?

Use same argument to analyze St. Pep.

Why can't Jose put together a coherent side playing good football with us after spending so much money already then? He has spent over 150 million on the midfield three we played against Spurs and they couldn't function.