The Mourinho Thread: Should he stay or go? | Sacked

[Shinjch]

So what should we do? I want to hear your solution, given the horror show which took place against Brighton 8 days earlier.

Well I certainly don't think that playing Herrera in a back three is an answer. If you are just going to keep chopping and changing systems and personnel every week then it will lead to more and more horror shows and no consistency of performance. Jose has his favourites who will play no matter what their performances were the week before (Matic, Lukaku and Valencia) and the others are then cut out when they have a bad game. It sends the wrong messages from a man management standpoint.

It also doesn't help that our team still has no plan when we have the ball. The whole thing is very incoherent and usually far too slow because of this. Which of course puts more pressure on the defence.

 

[LeftyBlaster]

What evidence is there that the players are lost? Against Spurs we saw a strong reaction to the Brighton performance. Had they come out and been as bad as they were on the South coast I'd agree with you. However, that first half showed whatever he's telling them they're still trying to do. Had Lukaku brought his shooting boots on Monday night we'd have taken the lead, Harry Kane and Pochettino admitted that Spurs were lucky to be level at half time.

There's nothing to suggest that United can't play similarly against Burnley and get a result. If we do that and go on a little run why is being competitive such a far fetched idea? We lost two of our first six games in 2012-13 too. I'm not saying it will happen but I don't see the evidence that the players have thrown in the towel. Its been much publicised that certain players don't like Mourinho but there's nothing to indicate the squad as a whole dislikes him. Shaw, who has probably had it hardest from Jose, has been our player of the month so far and has spoken well of Mourinho in every interview he's given lately.

Ask me and this idea, which appears to be increasingly popular on the CAF, that backing the manager is because of predjudice or dislike of other people or players is a little OTT.

This

 

[Aloysius's Back 3]

Success can't be measured by just Jose's points.

LVG came in and the first thing he said was that he wanted United to have an identity - an understanding of how the club should be playing football. He called it a philosophy - a type of football only associated with our club. He hardly talked about success.

By the end of the second season - I had started to see the players he was utilizing were players I wanted to see progressing at my football club - players like Rashford & Martial that I wanted to see as strikers instead of a player like Lukaku trying to control the ball. Players like TFM & CBJ breaking through positively on the defensive side in very few games.

However by then - the lack of success & the focus on a strict game plan led to many fans calling for LVG's head. Another season of rust - I'd wonder what others players I'd have been excited to see.


On the other hand - Jose comes in & tells everyone here is here for success. Likewise he buys all the ready made players, ex players that played for him, players that are 35 and so on. He doesn't come an analyse his players & wonders how to get the best out of them; he comes with his traditional 4231 & tells everyone to adapt to get the hell out. Martial & Rashford going from players we all enjoyed to players we hardly ever see play together & now competing for the same spot.

Some short term success arises from Jose's plaster on top of wound methods - Europa cup etc. He starts to alienate players without giving them an adequate chance - calls for a ball playing defender when he has refused to play one right under his chin, refuses to play without a RW & play with 2 strikers even though he has 3 wonderful ones. Replaces a short term target man with a makeshift target man. Players are clearly told to go out on the pitch & do what you want - whilst it shows because there is no respect for position, possession & playing that managers like Pep & LVG try to implement.

Ultimately people saying we have improved under Jose might be right - he was bought here to leave traditionally in his 3rd year & to bring a level of short term success & stability.

However - I'd have preferred us to continue with an identity - go from a club that had meaningless possession to a club that actually tried to use it. Instead we went to hoof ball individualism. For that reason we have gone backwards.

Overall we are in the same place & gone on a whirlwind of two opposites. I preferred watching the like of Rashford play in a system that suited him even though he amongst other would struggle occasionally playing to such an obviously implemented game plan.

Loved LVG & was hoping Giggs would come and fix up the delusional overly implemented side of LVGs tactics by literally untying the string a little bit. Instead we got someone who just plastered everything up & presents it as short term success.

Best for clubs who don't have any & sit under the shadows of some other clubs- not for RM & United.

 

[Johan07]

Our squad isn't good enough. Plain and simple as that. How many players in that squad are Mourinho's players? He wanted Lukaku, Matic and Fred. Yes he took a punt on Lindelof and Bailly, and it was probably a mistake, but they would have been scouted properly and sometimes that happens. The rest of his squad is made up of Fergie flops like Smalling, Jones, Young and Valencia. Moyes misfits like Fellaini, Mata and Herrera. Then LVG came in a signed Martial, Darmian (Depay, Di Maria, Blind) We have bought some really average players since 2013, and changing the manager won't fix that. We need to move these players on, not the manager. He needs to be backed and if that means working with a Director of football, who has a long-term goal of replacing players with quality signings and an influx of talent coming through the academy then that is our future and we just need to suck it up and let things progress. Would Zidane or Simeone make our current back 4 into world beaters? Would they fook. You know why we played park the bus football last season and finished 2nd, because if we go toe to toe with teams, we get spanked 0-3 by Spurs at home.

Why does Mourinho keep playing these "flops" and keeps offering them new contracts then? Why has he not got rid of them? He has to take the same responsibility for keeping them around as for his new signings, no?

If one agrees on the "flop" thing, which I dont. And Mourinho doesnt seem to either.

 

[VP89]

You seem to be using the points we finished on last season as a sign of progress. For the record, LvG managed 136 points in 2 seasons to Mourinho's 150. Do you really believe that's massive progress? LvG won the FA Cup and Mourinho won the EL and the League Cup. You are also conveniently leaving out the fact that the number of points for top four teams has increased in general over the past 2 seasons.

Things have improved in aspects since LvG left, but using our points total last season isn't really that great of a barometer.

And, the "them v us" mentality is created by Mourinho so yeah, he should be dealing with it.

Why does Mourinho keep playing these "flops" and keeps offering them new contracts then? Why has he not got rid of them? He has to take the same responsibility for keeping them around as for his new signings, no?

If one agrees on the "flop" thing, which I dont. And Mourinho doesnt seem to either.

Herrera and Mata are in final year. All we've done with a bulk of these players is extend the one year option. We haven't offered new contracts.

 

[Johan07]

Herrera and Mata are in final year. All we've done with a bulk of these players is extend the one year option. We haven't offered new contracts.

Fellaini? And United usually dont offer players like Mata, Valencia and Young more than one year extensions because of their age. And does it matter? Mourinho is keeping them around and playing them as well. Might it be that he actually rates them?

Also, players like Smalling and Jones would fetch quite a good fee in todays market if Jose decided to sell them. Midtable teams with new TV-money would easily shell out good money for any or both of those two. Yet Jose keeps them around. Fellaini would have fetched good money as well if we had sold him last summer.

Im not buying the narrative that he isnt responsible for our squad being what it is after being here for three years now.

 

[VP89]

Fellaini? And United usually dont offer players like Mata, Valencia and Young more than one year extensions because of their age. And does it matter? Mourinho is keeping them around and playing them as well. Might it be that he actually rates them?

Also, players like Smalling and Jones would fetch quite a good fee in todays market if Jose decided to sell them. Midtable teams with new TV-money would easily shell out good money for any or both of those two. Yet Jose keeps them around. Fellaini would have fetched good money as well if we had sold him last summer.

Im not buying the narrative that he isnt responsible for our squad being what it is after being here for three years now.

He can't go out and buy a whole new squad. That's why he needs to keep hold of what he has and slowly transition them out.

Surely that's obvious? He's been following Wilian for 2 years now. He originally thought Mkhi will be the answer for the right wing before that. Its quite clear that he wants to adjust that position but hasn't been able to.. So it doesn't make sense handicapping himself by getting rid of players already here and signing no one.

 

[Johan07]

He can't go out and buy a whole new squad. That's why he needs to keep hold of what he has and slowly transition them out.

Surely that's obvious? He's been following Wilian for 2 years now. He originally thought Mkhi will be the answer for the right wing before that. Its quite clear that he wants to adjust that position but hasn't been able to.. So it doesn't make sense handicapping himself by getting rid of players already here and signing no one.

No, I agree. I think its one of two things: either Jose really rates these players (they are being played, yes?) or he hasnt been able to find an upgrade on them available on the market. For whatever reason. Which kind of means that he rates them also though....

My issue was with the original posters essential claim that all of these players are "flops" that Mourinho has been stuck with for some conspiracy reason. He has not and he really needs to be held accountable for this squad and its performance going into his third year.

Saying that I dont think he has managed the squad poorly at all, he has sticked to continuity (which as this discussion shows I think is a very conscious choice) while trying to upgrade in a significant way when buying. I have more of a issue with how he has been deploying the squad tactically but thats another thread.

 

[Z1L3]

What do I define as good? I don't know, perhaps what we originally hired Mourinho for and what Mourinho was originally known for. Mourinho was always known for short term success. Fine, I'm not even asking for that. I'm asking for a title challenge past December. Now I'm sorry, but he didn't even clear that small hurdle.

For all this talk of Klopp not accomplishing anything with Liverpool, he actually got them to challenge for a big title. Yes, that was the CL final. To top it off, they actually play entertaining football. That's not enough for you? Fine, let's go to the bare minimum. Klopp got his players to actually resemble a team with chemistry. Shocking how Mourinho can't do that.

Amazing how I've lowered the bar so much for Mourinho and the basics he can't get right after 2 seasons and 400mil spent. 2nd place? Spurs got 2nd place on 86 points just the season before and without the amount of money spent Jose did. What does 2nd really get you? Is 2nd even an accurate representation of where United are? I doubt it because the Spurs just thrashed us 3-0 at home after spending 0 this summer.

Why do you assume the next manager we bring in will fail? Hell, he might fail, but we don't know that yet. No idea why some of you are so scared of sacking managers when the biggest clubs do it more than we do. The biggest clubs don't always go for the guy with the biggest cv. Just look at Bayern.

Yes, and they won nothing and Mourihno's United won 2 trophies (not counting Charity Shield). And the next year they also won nothing and finished behind Mourihno's United.

It's really fascinating the extent to which Mourihno is judged by a different standard than his peers. Klopp and Poch haven't won anything and they are applauded. Klopp is hailed as a genius for making it to a final, but you will never hear anyone even mention that Mourihno played the FA final last year, because for him anything but winning a trophy is a failure.

You don't even hear anyone say that in the first year United was poor in the league because they played more games than any club in Europe and the squad was decimated by injuries, and two of the top 6 rivals were not even in Europe that season.

I guess he is The Special One because his failures are equal to their "successes".

 

[Shinjch]

He can't go out and buy a whole new squad. That's why he needs to keep hold of what he has and slowly transition them out.

Surely that's obvious? He's been following Wilian for 2 years now. He originally thought Mkhi will be the answer for the right wing before that. Its quite clear that he wants to adjust that position but hasn't been able to.. So it doesn't make sense handicapping himself by getting rid of players already here and signing no one.

Nobody is saying that he has to buy a whole new squad. But he has had five transfer windows now to transition out a lot of the mediocre players and hasn't cleared out nearly enough. Even going so far as to extend the likes of Young, Valencia, Fellaini and Mata. If he had of let them go then it would have freed up a hell of a lot of money in wages to help him upgrade the squad. So he clearly feels that they are his players and he wants them to be a part of his squad.

Following players is ultimately pointless if they aren't attainable. So he can follow Willian all that he likes, but if Chelsea aren't willing to sell to United then it is a waste of his and the clubs time. Pep was clearly following Alexis, but when that feel through for him and his club he was quick to identify another attainable target in Mahrez to help his team.

 

[Miscemayl]

The majority that wanted Mourinho out probably didn't want him in the first place.
He's the "enemy". He's lost it. He's a dinosaur.

He's the current Manchester United manager and we should bloody back him.

This lack of progress talk is ridiculous when he took our team to second last season. Apparently now points is not a good barometer, "the league never lies" is apparently all BS. Style is the most important thing to a club because poor Jimmy is getting bored watching the football. His haters constantly try to move to goal posts to try to justify their hate. We are Manchester United, we always care about results first. Arsenal is being happy about playing nice football but coming 4th. And for years we laughed at them and their fans.

As for his spending, he's not doing the negotiation! It's not his fault that Ed cannot negotiate and consistently pays over the top for players. Ed almost prides himself for paying huge fees for big players as a marketing move. Jose identifies the players and you can't argue that Pogba, Lukaku, Sanchez, Matic, Fred are not improvements to our team. Who really thinks Jose signed two 23 year olds defenders no one really heard of as our starter? I think it's fairly clear they were bought as squad players with a look to the future. Ed overpaid for them so they look like starter signings. And even if he got them wrong, he's gotten more right than wrong. All managers, including the beloved Pep, Poch and Klopp, get some transfers wrong.

I'm sick of the negativity here and plenty wanting to change for the sake of changing. Would love to hear from those wanting Jose gone who they think would actually want to come in and take over our squad, with no transfers window, behind a dominant City, and somehow have the ability to get improvements on all fronts. We were second and to improve, we need to win. Who is this mythical manager that will overhaul City with our squad playing attacking football. And why would he or she want join us now?

And since when did we start siding with Ed and the Glazers over the manager? Our season looked optimistic when we signed Fred, then Ed fecking decided he knew football better than Jose and signed no one else for the first team. He caused all the negativity with his action. And then he had the gall to undermine the manager with his stupid briefing. Wtf is he trying to prove? And yet we blame this on Jose? Would you lot prefer he said we had a great squad and no one new was needed? Perhaps he treated the fans with more respect and honesty than we deserve.

Since when did we accept player power over manager? Have we forgotten what SAF's motto was? Have we forgotten what our club is about?

Jose out? Ffs he's won the EPL more recently than us. If he's lost it, then we're further gone. If we can't get a proven winner like Jose to work then we might as well pack up. We are getting knocked off our fecking perch.

Anyways, rant over. I think the majority with get their wish and see Jose go sooner rather than later. And then we'll deserve everything that come afterwards. I am still hoping I'm wrong and Jose will manage to stick around.

 

[Adam-Utd]

Yes, and they won nothing and Mourihno's United won 2 trophies (not counting Charity Shield). And the next year they also won nothing and finished behind Mourihno's United. So...

And what would happen if Mourinho was at Spurs and Poch at United?

 

[VP89]

Nobody is saying that he has to buy a whole new squad. But he has had five transfer windows now to transition out a lot of the mediocre players and hasn't cleared out nearly enough. Even going so far as to extend the likes of Young, Valencia, Fellaini and Mata. If he had of let them go then it would have freed up a hell of a lot of money in wages to help him upgrade the squad. So he clearly feels that they are his players and he wants them to be a part of his squad.

Following players is ultimately pointless if they aren't attainable. So he can follow Willian all that he likes, but if Chelsea aren't willing to sell to United then it is a waste of his and the clubs time. Pep was clearly following Alexis, but when that feel through for him and his club he was quick to identify another attainable target in Mahrez to help his team.

It's obvious he's limited in budget though.

So widely reported he had an extensive list of requirements to bridge that gap to City and Woodward got Fred and a 19 year old RB for the future. This is my gripe.

 

[Z1L3]

And what would happen if Mourinho was at Spurs and Poch at United?

Then the angry mob would want Poch out and Mourihno in, because then style would mean nothing without results, and "as a United fan I signed up for trophies" bit.

 

[Wilt]

And what would happen if Mourinho was at Spurs and Poch at United?

Spurs would probably win something.

 

[lococol]

I agree with this and it is astounding that other people think that replacing him will magically transform us into an all-conquering outfit.
If Jose is struggling, other managers would collapse fast.
LVG and Moyes were both experienced managers and this club chewed them up and spat them out like they were rookies.

Its easy over-simplistic to blame just one person rather than look at the bigger picture. "Glaziers out", "Sack Moyes", "Sack LVG", "Sack Jose". Im not saying that I disagree with some of those quotes but for me Mourinho absolutely needs to stay. If he gets through this current witch hunt we will be a force to reckon with.

 

[Shinjch]

It's obvious he's limited in budget though.

So widely reported he had an extensive list of requirements to bridge that gap to City and Woodward got Fred and a 19 year old RB for the future. This is my gripe.

If he knew that he was limited in budget should he not have prioritised targets accordingly then?

Do you not think these are two players that Jose wanted? As they very much strike me as Jose signings.

Fair enough if you think that we didn't sign enough this summer, that is probably true. But the generally negativity that is around the club at the moment has been brought on mostly by Jose himself by my reckoning. From his general moaning in pre-season to his current self-preservation, almost Trump-esque rants. If we weren't going to get a lot of business over the line it could have been a good opportunity for him to publically back the players he has at the club already to give them a boost. Spurs did even less business than us in the summer, but their manager was not going to bring such negativity to the situation in a bid to shift any of the blame from himself.

Anyway, this is my last allowed post in the forum today, but I look forward to reading in on the rest of the discussion.

 

[lococol]

I feel that many on here fail to see the significant amount of pressure that the negative media bias on both Jose and in general United puts on our overall performance. From manager all the way to players. What they don't need are fans/supporters to pile on.

Lets all face it there is a media bias and they try to wind Jose up. It definitely affects the club. I have a question. Does he even have to talk to the media or can someone else do it for him? If he can have someone else do it with a series of 'no-comment' type answers just to fulfil contractual obligations then Jose could talk directly to the actual fans through youtube or MUTV to rally support.

 

[Mainoldo]

The problem is, sack Mourinho after the Burnley game and we can basically settle for the reality that we're probably going to finish about 8th this season.

Carrick and McKenna are nowhere near experienced or savvy enough.

Zidane will want to join in the summer, with a line drawn under this season and a 'warchest' of his own.

This season is going to be an even bigger write-off without Jose, for me. At least Jose might drag us into 4th.

8th behind who exactly? Wolves? It’s not even September. We would be fine with a boosted squad moral. I would back us to finish where our squad indicates we should. 2nd.

 

[Alexit]

Finally a thread that I can identify with.

Backing the boss 100 percent. Can't stand the constant moaning for him to go. As if Lukaku would have buried that chance versus Spurs with someone else in charge. As if Jones wouldn't have bungled the FA Cup and the Spurs game. As if Smalling, well, you get the idea.

Let's smash Burnley then Watford and get this campaign off and running!

 

[Adisa]

When it reaches the point that the manager head might roll after the next game, the writing is on the wall.
Burnley is going to be interesting as regards to his tactics. Will he go for the press again?

 

[VP89]

If he knew that he was limited in budget should he not have prioritised targets accordingly then?

Do you not think these are two players that Jose wanted? As they very much strike me as Jose signings.

Fair enough if you think that we didn't sign enough this summer, that is probably true. But the generally negativity that is around the club at the moment has been brought on mostly by Jose himself by my reckoning. From his general moaning in pre-season to his current self-preservation, almost Trump-esque rants. If we weren't going to get a lot of business over the line it could have been a good opportunity for him to publically back the players he has at the club already to give them a boost. Spurs did even less business than us in the summer, but their manager was not going to bring such negativity to the situation in a bid to shift any of the blame from himself.

Anyway, this is my last allowed post in the forum today, but I look forward to reading in on the rest of the discussion.

He did prioritise targets. He needed an established forward so he bought Lukaku. He needed new midfielders after turfing out Basten, Schneiderlim and Rooney so he brought in Matic and Pogba.

Defence he obviously knew he needed quality but there were enough bodies to cope with. Lindelof and Bailey were added to the mix (I'm sure with the help of scouts) and one of those transfers look like an error. But I don't think that's all on Jose.

 

[SSSSnake]

So if Jose goes.... who do we get? I actually believe he still has the players on his side. The performance against Spurs is a sign of that. The spirit was there. I’d rather we ride the storm. I think he has a chance to get it right.

I heard Sven is looking for a job lol! Saw him on Skysports today and he's just chilling! Can't believe he admitted he was a Liverpool fan.

 

[lococol]

Fellaini? And United usually dont offer players like Mata, Valencia and Young more than one year extensions because of their age. And does it matter? Mourinho is keeping them around and playing them as well. Might it be that he actually rates them?

Also, players like Smalling and Jones would fetch quite a good fee in todays market if Jose decided to sell them. Midtable teams with new TV-money would easily shell out good money for any or both of those two. Yet Jose keeps them around. Fellaini would have fetched good money as well if we had sold him last summer.

Im not buying the narrative that he isnt responsible for our squad being what it is after being here for three years now.

Jose joined Man united on 27 May 2016. A little over 2 years ago

 

[Cloud7]

We will beat Burnley. They have an EL play-off game to play against Olympiacos before us and are likely to be tired on the weekend. Our usual lethargic walking pace should be enough for a mechanical 2-0 win.

If Burnley weren’t in such horrible form themselves, I would have been more confident of a United win. With their horrible start to the season, I just get the feeling that they’ll get a scalp against us.

It has shades of that season when Southampton didn’t win in something like 9 games, then they put 4 past Arsenal. I may be wrong, but it’s just a feeling. Hopefully I am wrong.

 

[el3mel]

Fellaini? And United usually dont offer players like Mata, Valencia and Young more than one year extensions because of their age. And does it matter? Mourinho is keeping them around and playing them as well. Might it be that he actually rates them?

Also, players like Smalling and Jones would fetch quite a good fee in todays market if Jose decided to sell them. Midtable teams with new TV-money would easily shell out good money for any or both of those two. Yet Jose keeps them around. Fellaini would have fetched good money as well if we had sold him last summer.

Im not buying the narrative that he isnt responsible for our squad being what it is after being here for three years now.

We tried to sell Darmian and Rojo and no one wanted to pay 20m for neither so wha make you believ Jones will fetch good money ? He has been here for 8 years and under 4 managers and no one succeeded in getting rid of him.

 

[Johan07]

We tried to sell Darmian and Rojo and no one wanted to pay 20m for neither so wha make you believ Jones will fetch good money ? He has been here for 8 years and under 4 managers and no one succeeded in getting rid of him.

Or Jones has been here for 8 years and under 4 managers and no one including Mourinho wanted to get rid of him.

Jones is 26 years old, plays for England and is not on crazy wages. Clubs like Everton, West Ham and Newcastle would bite our hands off for him if he was transfer listed. He is easily worth 40m£ in todays market. Maybe more.

Rojo was awarded a new contract last year wasnt he? Darmian was kept before including TFM in the squad. These are conscious decisions from Mourinho in my mind if you cant present any evidence for the opposite.

Statements like that four managers have been trying to get rid of Jones are just childish btw.

 

[el3mel]

Or Jones has been here for 8 years under 4 managers and no one wanted to get rid of him. IncludiHow about that?

Or Jones has been here for 8 years and under 4 managers and no one including Mourinho wanted to get rid of him.

Jones is 26 years old, plays for England and is not on crazy wages. Clubs like Everton, West Ham and Newcastle would bite our hands off for him if he was transfer listed. He is easily worth 40m£ in todays market. Maybe more.

Rojo was awarded a new contract last year wasnt he? Darmian was kept before including TFM in the squad. These are conscious decisions from Mourinho in my mind if you cant present any evidence for the opposite.

Statements like that four managers have been trying to get rid of Jones are just childish btw.

You know that Jones barely played under LVG right ? He hasn't got past 25 league appearances in a whole season except twice in 8 years. Smalling and Blind were LVG main pairing for defense most of times. All these managers can't be blind for his constant injures and crap peformance.

You must be joking with that 40m. He's barely worth 10m. He's not an unknown quantity that we can fool another club to get. He's shite and barely plays. He spends most of the seaaon injured, and when plays he causes disasters. He's at even worse state than Evans when the latter fecked off.

We'll be lucky to get 10m for him. That 40m stuff can work for Smalling but not for this lad.

 

[Johan07]

You know that Jones barely played under LVG right ? He hasn't got past 25 league appearances in a whole season except twice in 8 years. Smalling and Blind were LVG main pairing for defense most of times. All these managers can't be blind for his constant injures and crap peformance.

You must be joking with that 40m. He's barely worth 10m. He's not an unknown quantity that we can fool another club to get. He's shite and barely plays. He spends most of the seaaon injured, and when plays he causes disasters. He's at even worse state than Evans when the latter fecked off.

We'll be lucky to get 10m for him. That 40m stuff can work for Smalling but not for this lad.

Yet he made the English squad before Mike and is younger. And Mourinho put him straight in vs Spurs just one week ago. Look: I get that you dont like Jones, and thats fine but this 10m crap is ridiculous. He is worth at least what Smalling is in todays market.

I wouldnt even rule Spurs with their upcoming CB issues when Aldeweireld leaves and their serious homegrown player problems as well.

 

[el3mel]

Yet he made the English squad before Mike and is younger. And Mourinho put him straight in vs Spurs just one week ago. Look: I get that you dont like Jones, and thats fine but this 10m crap is ridiculous. He is worth at least what Smalling is in todays market.

I wouldnt even rule Spurs with their upcoming CB issues when Aldeweireld leaves and their serious homegrown player problems as well.

Loads of crap players go to World Cup. Don't understand what in that makes him good. He wasn't a starter and the game he played he helped Hazard to score as usual.

No there's a big difference in the market between a defender who manages 40-50 games a season and keeps consistent performance most of time and a defender who spends 60% of the season injured, barely manages a 25 games a seaaon and is mostly rubbish in them as well.

 

[Bastian]

Those saying that if Jose doesn't rate player x, y, z why does he keep them and play them:

I remember when he said that rebuilding would be easier from scratch. But that's not the case. He's moved on quite a lot of players but 1) you only move on Smalling/Jones/Rojo if you've guaranteed the money to replace them with upgrades, 2) if there are clubs out there who want them, and 3) they don't dig their heals in. We have a lot of players who won't get a look in at top clubs and might not get close to the money they are on at United. But the first point is the most important one, you need to have the money available to upgrade the quality of the squad and that in today's market costs a lot.

 

[MV12]

The majority that wanted Mourinho out probably didn't want him in the first place.
He's the "enemy". He's lost it. He's a dinosaur.

He's the current Manchester United manager and we should bloody back him.

This lack of progress talk is ridiculous when he took our team to second last season. Apparently now points is not a good barometer, "the league never lies" is apparently all BS. Style is the most important thing to a club because poor Jimmy is getting bored watching the football. His haters constantly try to move to goal posts to try to justify their hate. We are Manchester United, we always care about results first. Arsenal is being happy about playing nice football but coming 4th. And for years we laughed at them and their fans.

As for his spending, he's not doing the negotiation! It's not his fault that Ed cannot negotiate and consistently pays over the top for players. Ed almost prides himself for paying huge fees for big players as a marketing move. Jose identifies the players and you can't argue that Pogba, Lukaku, Sanchez, Matic, Fred are not improvements to our team. Who really thinks Jose signed two 23 year olds defenders no one really heard of as our starter? I think it's fairly clear they were bought as squad players with a look to the future. Ed overpaid for them so they look like starter signings. And even if he got them wrong, he's gotten more right than wrong. All managers, including the beloved Pep, Poch and Klopp, get some transfers wrong.

I'm sick of the negativity here and plenty wanting to change for the sake of changing. Would love to hear from those wanting Jose gone who they think would actually want to come in and take over our squad, with no transfers window, behind a dominant City, and somehow have the ability to get improvements on all fronts. We were second and to improve, we need to win. Who is this mythical manager that will overhaul City with our squad playing attacking football. And why would he or she want join us now?

And since when did we start siding with Ed and the Glazers over the manager? Our season looked optimistic when we signed Fred, then Ed fecking decided he knew football better than Jose and signed no one else for the first team. He caused all the negativity with his action. And then he had the gall to undermine the manager with his stupid briefing. Wtf is he trying to prove? And yet we blame this on Jose? Would you lot prefer he said we had a great squad and no one new was needed? Perhaps he treated the fans with more respect and honesty than we deserve.

Since when did we accept player power over manager? Have we forgotten what SAF's motto was? Have we forgotten what our club is about?

Jose out? Ffs he's won the EPL more recently than us. If he's lost it, then we're further gone. If we can't get a proven winner like Jose to work then we might as well pack up. We are getting knocked off our fecking perch.

Anyways, rant over. I think the majority with get their wish and see Jose go sooner rather than later. And then we'll deserve everything that come afterwards. I am still hoping I'm wrong and Jose will manage to stick around.

BANG ON THE MONEY!! 100% agree.. This is a fantastic post, and I honestly couldn't have said it any better myself!

 

[Revan]

I've said it before, Jose has been nothing but honest with the board, fans and media. He warned us this might happen if we didn't invest in the squad.

Off the back of an abysmal performance last week the team played well, and that is down to the manager.

Tactically we were spot on, and that is down to the manager.

Individual errors cost us, that is down to the players.

Jones is injured again, Rojo is chronically injured so we now lack cover in defence, and we didn't invest in a new CB despite Jose's request. That is down to the board.

Jose asked for Maguire or Alderweireld, we went for neither because Woodword wanted Varane. That is down to Ed.

If you can't see where the problem lies I give up all hope.

Nope, he just lowered the expectations, and did what he always does best, put the blame on other people.

We finished second last season and conceded less goals than any other team bar City. We have conceded already 7 goals this season (and scored just 4) when it is essentially the same team, which now should be more suited to his 'tactics' and Fred. Going backwards is totally not justifiable. If he coached players instead of moaning (like Pochettino did, who btw, didn't sign a single player), we would be in a better position.

 

[Johan07]

Those saying that if Jose doesn't rate player x, y, z why does he keep them and play them:

I remember when he said that rebuilding would be easier from scratch. But that's not the case. He's moved on quite a lot of players but 1) you only move on Smalling/Jones/Rojo if you've guaranteed the money to replace them with upgrades, 2) if there are clubs out there who want them, and 3) they don't dig their heals in. We have a lot of players who won't get a look in at top clubs and might not get close to the money they are on at United. But the first point is the most important one, you need to have the money available to upgrade the quality of the squad and that in today's market costs a lot.

I think the simple answer is because that he does rate them (as I have tried to argue earlier in this thread).

He could have sold Jones and Smalling this summer and they would have fetched more than it would have cost to buy Aldeweireld.

And promoted Tuanzebe to the first squad. If anyone thinks that its not a conscious decision not to do so by Mourinho they are a ltb naive or just so focused to blame this on earlier managers or Ed.

IMO.

EDIT
And I am not anti-Jose, I am just arguing against this narrative that we dont have the squad we have because of someone else than Mourinho.

 

[Macaris Socks]

I still think Jose helped initiate this negative vibe around the club by his constant moods and sulking. Also implying United would struggle without all the new signings he wanted was a huge vote of no confidence in the players which helped secure 2nd place in the league last season. Yes we know most of our defenders are average at best but he needed to display some confidence in them without the public beratings and constant rotation every time a player has an off game. I think may be a little too late for applauding the Stretford End and wanting that seige mentality unity.

 

[sunama]

My support for Mourinho is higher than it ever has been right now. He has instilled an ‘us vs them’ mentality in the squad and has actually made us United. You can clearly see the players want to fight for him. He has made the players want to fight for the club at a time when the whole media would love nothing for us than to crumble.

I too am Jose In, now more than ever. But I think he needs to get the players more on his side.
When Fergie was here, he created a siege mentality - the fans, players, the club vs the rest of the World - and this is what we need once again.
You cannot underestimate that if an athlete (or football player) has it is in his head that it's us vs the World, during the match, that player can summon extra reserves of energy.
My problem is that Pogba is not doing this right now. IMO, he should be our best player, but he isn't acting like it.
I remember when Pogba played his first match at OT, he was like a rabid animal attempting to win the match by himself and Jose was hugely complimentary at the end of the match, about him. That's the kind of performance we need. And I have noticed that when Pogba plays well, the whole team plays well.

 

[Minimalist]

Training must have been good today then. Probably practiced how to attack.

lol

Quick, before he shows up. Look at this playbook I’ve been writing....

 

[Miscemayl]

He did prioritise targets. He needed an established forward so he bought Lukaku. He needed new midfielders after turfing out Basten, Schneiderlim and Rooney so he brought in Matic and Pogba.

Defence he obviously knew he needed quality but there were enough bodies to cope with. Lindelof and Bailey were added to the mix (I'm sure with the help of scouts) and one of those transfers look like an error. But I don't think that's all on Jose.

This does my head in the most out of all the whinging. How are there people whinging about Mourinho's management while unable to see the obvious plan in place with regards to our transfers.

Jose brings in 3 to 4 player a window, and in the first window, he prioritised the midfield with Pogba and Mki, Zlatan for attack with Bailly adding support to the defence. I doubt anyone back then expected Bailly to come straight into the starting xi.

Next window, with Rooney out and Zlatan injured, he prioritied the striker with Lukaku. He also brought in Matic to help out Pogba. He bought Lindelof in, with an eye for the future. Again, not saw many who even knew him, let alone expecting him to be starters. In the winter window, Sanchez was available so he came in.

With now midfield and front line somewhat sorted, he wanted to improve the defence. This is where he got overruled.

The plan is bloody obvious and the prioritization is very sound. And yet so many moan about a lack of prioritization.

Others ask why are Young, Fellaini and co still here. Well you would be stupid to get rid of players before getting replacements for a club as rich as us. We don't need to sell first and risk coming up short. We don't have the luxury to replace squad players yet when we still have gaps in the best xi.

So of all the things people say Jose got wrong, transfers is the one that does my head in the most.

It's as if plenty bought the "richest club" hype and think we really have a limitless budget. And even if we do, you can't replace an entire squad in 3 windows (winter windows don't really count). If Jose was backed this window, we would've replaced most of our starting xi but Ed thought he knew better.

 

[sunama]

Hi. Wolves supporter here. Thought I'd weigh in with a view from the outside.

City are the current benchmark and if you analyse what's happened since Fergie left, it's no surprise that you are not competing with them.

It looks to me that all your current problems stem back to the 3 seasons post-Fergie and pre-Mourinho.

You spent around £390m in those 3 seasons under Moyes and Van Gaal on Fellaini, Mata, Herrera, Shaw, Rojo, Di Maria, Blind, Depay, Darmian, Schneiderlin, Schweinsteiger and Martial (amongst others).

When Mourinho came in, he wasn't left with one player from those signings who would get into City's starting XI.

Over the same period, City spent less (around £295m), but recruited players like Fernandinho, De Bruyne, Sterling and Otamendi.

So despite spending more, Mourinho was inheriting a first XI and squad already inferior to City's.

Under Mourinho, in the 16/17 season, 17/18 season and so far this season, you have spent around £400m. More than you spent in the 3 seasons under Moyes and Van Gaal, but the way transfer fees have gone since 16/17 this is to be expected. If you compare the spending and factor in the inflation factors over that period, he's actually spent less than they did.

The signings under Mourinho have improved the overall quality of the first XI and squad. Pogba, Sanchez, Lukaku and Matic would all push to get in City's team when playing at their best. Bailley might too if he wasn't injured all the time.

But over the same period, City have spent £490m, buying in players like Gundogan, Sane, Stones, Jesus, Bernardo Silva, Ederson, Walker, Laporte and Mendy.

You were already behind City when Mourinho joined and since then, City have spent more money and spent it better. With Guardiola's proven ability to improve players, they are now much further ahead of you than they were when Mourinho took over.

For all his antics and rants, Mourinho is a realist and actually quite an intelligent bloke. He will know all of this already and would have identified that to close the gap on City, you needed 5 top players, with centre back being the biggest priority. So at the start of pre-season, he gives his list to Woodward in the hope of getting them through the door, but he ends up with Dalot and Fred. Meanwhile City spend £60m on a proven Premier League performer and former winner, widening the gap further.

Bottom line is the recruitment since Fergie left has been dog-**** and if you want to catch City, you need to either spend more than anyone has ever spent in PL history, or try a different, value-based approach like Leicester did and Spurs are doing.

At the moment you are doing neither. If I were Mourinho, I'd be ****ed off too.

That doesn't excuse his behaviour, but looking in from the outside I don't know what Woodward is trying to achieve? Why give Mourinho a new long-term contract if he wasn't going to back him?

Jose is angry because he wants to win and doesn't feel that the club (and Woodward) have the same ambitions. For the manager of the richest club in the world, that must be frustrating. There's no denying that Harry Maguire and Toby Alderwiereld at CB makes your team infinitely better.

Top 4 is the best you can hope for with this collection of players. No manager in the world could win the league with your current squad so I don't see what good sacking Jose will do? Without better players, what's the point?

Thank you SAH!
The question I ask, is that if neutrals can see this, why can't most fans of MUFC?
Most fans of MUFC seem to want to fire the manager and hope that like a magic bullet, it solves all our issues.

 

[WolfInSharp'sClothing]

Thank you SAH!
The question I ask, is that if neutrals can see this, why can't most fans of MUFC?
Most fans of MUFC seem to want to fire the manager and hope that like a magic bullet, it solves all our issues.

Yeah. If Mourinho goes, he will be the most successful of the 3 since SAF left and the only common denominator for all is Woodward.

But it must be the fault of the managers