The Mourinho Thread: Should he stay or go? | Sacked

[amolbhatia50k]

But to expand on that you have PSG etc who thrash domestic sides so much that the buzz has worn off.
Another City season and you'll naturally see them turn to Europe for vindication as every other top team in a dominated league. Routine big wins still become routine.

PSG is a slightly unique case because they're an incredible team (due to outside funding) in not the best of leagues so essentially it's an artificial dominance. City exist in the PL so they can very well be challenged and I don't see them ruining the league the way PSG have if we and the rest are managed properly. Or if Pep fecks off as he's the best around IMO.

I see the viewpoint your putting forth but IMO there's a difference between the neutral, objective view and a fans view. I enjoyed our 5 PL titles in 7 years incredibly and most United fans would have loved our 2 decades of dominance. Would the rest of the PL have preferred a more even league/less dominance? For sure. For them, the PL became this one team boring league. For us? It was magic and we wouldn't reduce that to 5 league titles for a more balanced experience. No chance.

As for plenty of goals in one game, you can retain the magic while doing so. Barcleona's team under Pep is the most iconic and revered in my time watching football, and they hammered teams every other week.

 

[Di Maria's angel]

I don't know. "I do not want my team to score lots of goals and I don't enjoy my team winning games with five, six, seven goals" is as controversial as it gets. It's really fecking strange, no matter how you look at it. If you speak as a neutral, that's one thing: I obviously prefer a hard-fought 3-3 than one team steamrolling the other. But as a fan? The idea that a fan does not enjoy his team winning by a big margin is, I repeat, incredibly odd. He basically says he doesn't enjoy his own team playing brilliantly.

He probably prefers losing a few games over the season over winning all of them because then the team would run away with the league.

It was more along the lines of "I don't like lop-sided results in any sport". That's not controversial to any extent. At no point has the poster claimed to not wanting United to win (unless you can show me otherwise), they just don't get enjoyment out of scorelines that exceed a margin or 3, 4 or 5 goals etc. and that's fair enough. The rest of us do and that's also fine. Scoring less than 4 goals doesn't mean you haven't played well.

Personally, and this has feck all to do with opinion on Mourinho, I take a lot of joy from close wins. I like when we trash teams, in fact, I long for games where we start scoring 4, 5 or 6 goals but I absolutely loved beating City last year at the Etihad in a hard fought and close encounter. Games like that are why football is such a brilliant sport. It's a roller-coaster ride of emotions.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Calling my reaction of "everyone's entitled to their own opinion" is strange how?

Okay, look. Fans support their team, right? They want their team to the bestest in the world freaking planet and the entirety of its existence. We all watch hoping for matching, hoping for dominance, hoping for a goal. When we get a goal, we want another goal. When we get another.. you catch my drift. That's how we support. I've never known any supporter who wants the other team to score and equalise so that their team doesn't run away with the contest. Almost every fan is tuned that way, because that's what supporting involves really.

So when someone pops up and says I prefer things to be tight and us not running away with things (if we constructed it correctly), of course there is going to be alarm. Yes, everyone is entitled to their view. But the reaction from everyone else who can't grasp this thought process is natural. That was my point. It isn't a sign of the forum being terrible at all

 

[cyberman]

@amolbhatia50k
Even their fans look towards Europe though? I would hate to be in that position given the choice.
The clubs in Italy and Spain have even restructured their tv deals to strengthen all around them. Big wins could hurt a brand if they catch the highlights because Spurs v Liverpool is on the other side.
We only think we want the big wins in the long run ( consistent big wins is what I mean, I suppose)

 

[ash_86]

Who ever coming in after Mourinho should be tasked to knock Pep's 5+ goal record else should be fired in the 22nd game. Anything less than 5+ goals is boring and most of our fans would turn on the manager. I mean that should be a realistic expectation of a United manager.

 

[PepsiCola]

Who ever coming in after Mourinho should be tasked to knock Pep's 5+ goal record else should be fired in the 22nd game. Anything less than 5+ goals is boring and most of our fans would turn on the manager. I mean that should be a realistic expectation of a United manager.

This is so precious

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Who ever coming in after Mourinho should be tasked to knock Pep's 5+ goal record else should be fired in the 22nd game. Anything less than 5+ goals is boring and most of our fans would turn on the manager. I mean that should be a realistic expectation of a United manager.

A fluid attacking team and a league challenge within 3 years will do. But no, please keep pretending people are holding Mourinho to unrealistic expectations he isn't able to meet. Such a victim mentality among some pro Mourinho posters.

 

[PepsiCola]

A fluid attacking team after 3 years and a league challenge will do. But no, please keep pretending people are holding Mourinho to unrealistic expectations he isn't able to meet. Such a victim mentality pro Mourinho posters have.

Indeed

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Indeed

The manager created it to be fair. His followers just echo the same feelings.

 

[Di Maria's angel]

Okay, look. Fans support their team, right? They want their team to the bestest in the world freaking planet and the entirety of its existence. We all watch hoping for matching, hoping for dominance, hoping for a goal. When we get a goal, we want another goal. When we get another.. you catch my drift. That's how we support. I've never known any supporter who wants the other team to score and equalise so that their team doesn't run away with the contest. Almost every fan is tuned that way, because that's what supporting involves really.

So when someone pops up and says I prefer things to be tight and us not running away with things (if we constructed it correctly), of course there is going to be alarm. Yes, everyone is entitled to their view. But the reaction from everyone else who can't grasp this thought process is natural. That was my point. It isn't a sign of the forum being terrible at all

We're not really a team known for thrashing others team, though. Of course, we've done it occasionally and some of them will always live in our memories. But the most memorable games and the reason this club has the following it does are the close games, the comebacks, the 90th minute winners. I just don't understand how fans are "shocked" by a person who prefers the sort of games which define our club.

 

[ash_86]

A fluid attacking team after 3 years and a league challenge will do. But no, please keep pretending people are holding Mourinho to unrealistic expectations he isn't able to meet. Such a victim mentality pro Mourinho posters have.

Then hold him responsible for that, not for some weird stats on who has scored 5 or more goals et al. I have many qualms with Mourinho but arguing about this stupid fact for several pages is getting to another level of hate.

 

[Rolaholic]

The manager created it to be fair. His followers just echo the same feelings.

Pretty much

The $400m squad having an underdog mentality/identity is always funny

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Then hold him responsible for that, not for some weird stats on who has scored 5 or more goals et al. I have many qualms with Mourinho but arguing about this stupid fact for several pages is getting to another level of hate.

Except no one cites such a statistic as the main/real reason why he isn't good enough for Manchester United. Of course it would be terrific to be better and hand out more hammerings. It's the sign of a top top team.

 

[Siorac]

We're not really a team known for thrashing others team, though. Of course, we've done it occasionally and some of them will always live in our memories. But the most memorable games and the reason this club has the following it does are the close games, the comebacks, the 90th minute winners. I just don't understand how fans are "shocked" by a person who prefers the sort of games which define our club.

It's not just a preference though, he explicitly said he didn't like big wins. It's not that one of those things gives him more joy than the other: it's that one of the two he simply doesn't want to happen.

Which, for a fan, is odd. And by the way, we are famous for being a high-scoring team; Fergie wrote in his book that his motto always was that teams come to Old Trafford expecting an onslaught so we should give it to them.

 

[ash_86]

Except no one cites such a statistic as the main/real reason why he isn't good enough for Manchester United. Of course it would be terrific to be better and hand out more hammerings. It's the sign of a top top team.

Look around. Pretty much every road has been travelled in terms of Mourinho bashing and we seem to find new avenues to bash him. Jose is not the right manager for us, there i said it but the level of hate he gets here is quite unfair. Any one who remotely try to convey this has to bear the name of pro supporter or apologist.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

We're not really a team known for thrashing others team, though. Of course, we've done it occasionally and some of them will always live in our memories. But the most memorable games and the reason this club has the following it does are the close games, the comebacks, the 90th minute winners. I just don't understand how fans are "shocked" by a person who prefers the sort of games which define our club.

Please re-read the below exchange that started the discourse and tell me why Pogue's (and other subequent posters) reaction is strange. It isn't just about preferring those glorious close wins but about not liking wins any bigger than a relatively small margin. Most fans will find that hard to connect with, and the reaction will follow.

I am not a fan of piling it on except you are in a close race where GD might be the decider (which is often not the case with Guardiola's teams).

I just feels it shows more class to not have to rub it in when you are clearly the superior side. I think a 3 goal margin is dominant enough and 'gives face' to the defeated

Wow. I could not give less of a shit about “giving face” to anyone.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Look around. Pretty much every road has been travelled in terms of Mourinho bashing and we seem to find new avenues to bash him. Jose is not the right manager for us, there i said it but the level of hate he gets here is quite unfair. Any one who remotely try to convey this has to bear the name of pro supporter or apologist.

The level of hate is a tad much. That I'll agree with. But this IS Manchester United, after all. Love/hate in ridiculous proportions comes with the package.

 

[ash_86]

The level of hate is a tad much. That I'll agree with. But this IS Manchester United, after all. Love/hate in ridiculous proportions comes with the package.

That's where i fear for the manager coming in whenever that is. When people here throw names like McKenna, Giggs or Howe , things could get ugly pretty ugly pretty quickly. Hopefully we show him some patience if they could show progress.

 

[Di Maria's angel]

It's not just a preference though, he explicitly said he didn't like big wins. It's not that one of those things gives him more joy than the other: it's that one of the two he simply doesn't want to happen.

Which, for a fan, is odd. And by the way, we are famous for being a high-scoring team; Fergie wrote in his book that his motto always was that teams come to Old Trafford expecting an onslaught so we should give it to them.

In the entirety of the PL, we've scored 5 or more goals 44 times. Earlier, we were told City have done that 22 times under Pep, right?

 

[Pogue Mahone]

But to expand on that you have PSG etc who thrash domestic sides so much that the buzz has worn off.
Another City season and you'll naturally see them turn to Europe for vindication as every other top team in a dominated league. Routine big wins still become routine.

Let’s cross that bridge when we get to it, shall we? If and when we start becoming too dominant maybe we can have a discussion about whether crushing the opposition every weekend is getting a little boring. I imagine 99.9% of City fans haven’t yet reached that point, mind you, 21 5 goal thrashings later.

Besides, you surely can’t be arguing that a managerial approach which makes it unlikely that we ever dominate teams to the same extent as City is some kind of perverse positive for the club?!?

 

[Pogue Mahone]

In the entirety of the PL, we've scored 5 or more goals 44 times. Earlier, we were told City have done that 22 times under Pep, right?

We’ve never been quite so far ahead of the pack as City. But, then again, we’ve never been as financially dominant as they are. Even when we were the only team to regularly break British transfer records. We were absolutely a high scoring team, though. Much more well known for scoring goals than shutting the opposition out. That’s a tradition that even pre-dates Fergie.

 

[sunama]

A fluid attacking team and a league challenge within 3 years will do. But no, please keep pretending people are holding Mourinho to unrealistic expectations he isn't able to meet. Such a victim mentality among some pro Mourinho posters.

I can't say much about fluid attacks, but we were going to challenge for the title this season.
The first season was about getting into the CL. The 2nd season was to mount a challenge, but we fell short (and finished 2nd). The 3rd season was to be better than the 2nd, but Woodward stopped the train.
I could get fully behind replacing Jose, but we need to have a viable candidate. Replacing an elite level manager (a serial winner), with somebody worse would be ridiculous and short sighted.

 

[shamans]

That's where i fear for the manager coming in whenever that is. When people here throw names like McKenna, Giggs or Howe , things could get ugly pretty ugly pretty quickly. Hopefully we show him some patience if they could show progress.

It doesn't matter. I wish we were aggressive with our manager hiring choices. I think with Moyes, we took a big risk and it didn't pay off but I would like to see us take another risk with Giggs. What's the worst that can happen? We will finish 14th? So what, it's not like finishing 6th is better. On the upside, we could have a proper attacking united like we always wished for.

 

[shamans]

I can't say much about fluid attacks, but we were going to challenge for the title this season.
The first season was about getting into the CL. The 2nd season was to mount a challenge, but we fell short (and finished 2nd). The 3rd season was to be better than the 2nd, but Woodward stopped the train.
I could get fully behind replacing Jose, but we need to have a viable candidate. Replacing an elite level manager (a serial winner), with somebody worse would be ridiculous and short sighted.

That's not how management works. LVG was a serial winner. Mourinho was a serial winner. Wenger has won titles and created invincible squads. Zidane and Pep weren't winners before they started their careers.

 

[sunama]

Let’s cross that bridge when we get to it, shall we? If and when we start becoming too dominant maybe we can have a discussion about whether crushing the opposition every weekend is getting a little boring. I imagine 99.9% of City fans haven’t yet reached that point, mind you, 21 5 goal thrashings later.

 

[MoskvaRed]

It doesn't matter. I wish we were aggressive with our manager hiring choices. I think with Moyes, we took a big risk and it didn't pay off but I would like to see us take another risk with Giggs. What's the worst that can happen? We will finish 14th? So what, it's not like finishing 6th is better. On the upside, we could have a proper attacking united like we always wished for.

But Liverpool didn’t appoint Gerrard, Arsenal didn’t go for Henry and JT is not in the Chelsea dug out. While LVG and, with hindsight, Mourinho may have been overly conservative choices, I don’t see why we should go to the other extreme and bank on an unknown.

 

[sunama]

That's not how management works. LVG was a serial winner. Mourinho was a serial winner. Wenger has won titles and created invincible squads. Zidane and Pep weren't winners before they started their careers.

LVG was not a serial winner. His last league title was I think with Bayern, several years before he joined us. His truly great success was with Ajax 20 years before he joined us.
Wenger did win league titles, but it's been a long long time since that happened. I can't even remember when he last won a league. He got so obsessed with getting 4th, so that his club got CL money, that he no longer even wanted to win the league.
When Pep signed for Bayern, he was a serial winner. When he signed for MCFC, he was already a serial winner. Before he managed the Barca A team, he managed the Barca B team.
Zidane was thrown into management, though he did have a squad full of Galacticos and he did fantastically well to win 3 x CLs.

I accept that there could be a risk factor involved by replacing Jose, but it needs to be a calculated risk. Replacing him with someone like Poch (never won a trophy before and finished behind Jose last season, with a CV similar to Moyes) or Howe (don't get me started), would be fool hardy. Jose should be replaced, but only if the right candidate comes along. But if the right candidate is not available, there simply isn't any point in replacing him.

 

[Robbie Boy]

It’s hard to believe that some have bought into Mourinhos ‘us against the world’ victim shite. Deary me, some people are just too purposely obtuse to acknowledge the truth.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

I can't say much about fluid attacks, but we were going to challenge for the title this season.
The first season was about getting into the CL. The 2nd season was to mount a challenge, but we fell short (and finished 2nd). The 3rd season was to be better than the 2nd, but Woodward stopped the train.
I could get fully behind replacing Jose, but we need to have a viable candidate. Replacing an elite level manager (a serial winner), with somebody worse would be ridiculous and short sighted.

We weren't challenging this season with Mourinho in charge. Our football wasn't on its way to being that good.

And replacing a struggling manager with a better one is usually the correct decision. I'd love to acknowledge pro Mourinho arguments as valid ones but many like yours are so clearly biased and in his favour, it's rather ridiculous. I mean you're such an admirer of his that you can't even see the case for letting him go as he's an ELITE LEVEL WINNER. So was LVG sadly. I have no issue with your stance. But rather the stance to see any questioning of his manager as some form of mandess.

Carry on I suppose. I can't agree with such an unreasonable viewpoint, nor understand where it comes from. Agree to disagree.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Let’s cross that bridge when we get to it, shall we? If and when we start becoming too dominant maybe we can have a discussion about whether crushing the opposition every weekend is getting a little boring. I imagine 99.9% of City fans haven’t yet reached that point, mind you, 21 5 goal thrashings later.

Besides, you surely can’t be arguing that a managerial approach which makes it unlikely that we ever dominate teams to the same extent as City is some kind of perverse positive for the club?!?

Absolutely.

 

[shamans]

But Liverpool didn’t appoint Gerrard, Arsenal didn’t go for Henry and JT is not in the Chelsea dug out. While LVG and, with hindsight, Mourinho may have been overly conservative choices, I don’t see why we should go to the other extreme and bank on an unknown.

Because you tell me which players out there grew with the greatest manager of all time from a teenager till an adult. Someone who had the chance to learn from the greatest being so close to him. I am not saying it's 100% success but there is a reason to believe it could be.

 

[shamans]

LVG was not a serial winner. His last league title was I think with Bayern, several years before he joined us. His truly great success was with Ajax 20 years before he joined us.
Wenger did win league titles, but it's been a long long time since that happened. I can't even remember when he last won a league. He got so obsessed with getting 4th, so that his club got CL money, that he no longer even wanted to win the league.
When Pep signed for Bayern, he was a serial winner. When he signed for MCFC, he was already a serial winner. Before he managed the Barca A team, he managed the Barca B team.
Zidane was thrown into management, though he did have a squad full of Galacticos and he did fantastically well to win 3 x CLs.

I accept that there could be a risk factor involved by replacing Jose, but it needs to be a calculated risk. Replacing him with someone like Poch (never won a trophy before and finished behind Jose last season, with a CV similar to Moyes) or Howe (don't get me started), would be fool hardy. Jose should be replaced, but only if the right candidate comes along. But if the right candidate is not available, there simply isn't any point in replacing him.

I just think this "right candidate" thing is a bit of a myth. In a pool of managers some may be success and others won't be. You just have to take that leap of faith. Take us back to LVG's last days and it was obvious Jose was the solution. He had won it all and we needed that injection of winning something but it didn't really happen the way we thought it would.

I also am not sure if Poch would be a success or not but you never know. At the very least he would have us playing fluid I'd like to believe. I do agree sometimes Poch is made out to be so much better than Jose which isn't true.

My point is a manager + the club makes a difference. You can't look at the manager alone.

 

[shamans]

It’s hard to believe that some have bought into Mourinhos ‘us against the world’ victim shite. Deary me, some people are just too purposely obtuse to acknowledge the truth.

It's all hope. I buy into it as well sometimes. What else can I do? It's better than hoping your manager gets sacked all the time. Might as well show support despite the fact Mourinho has failed till now

 

[Santoryo]

Jose actually said it last season. Jose makes the excuses, his fans only rationalise them

THIS !!!!!!

 

[Craig Ward]

I'm still in the Mourinho out camp.

While we are playing ok in the 2nd half and clawing back victories against opposition we should be comfortably beating, out laboured style and misshaped squad is still pathetic

 

[Robbie Boy]

It's all hope. I buy into it as well sometimes. What else can I do? It's better than hoping your manager gets sacked all the time. Might as well show support despite the fact Mourinho has failed till now

Showing support is fine and I still want us to win every time we play. I was wrong about Mourinho, I admit that as I thought he was the man for the job. Support is one thing but blind delusion and constant excuses are a totally different entity.

 

[Santoryo]

We’re through the looming glass now.

Where do these people come from, after scraping one goal wins against Everton & Bournemouth, it’s all now fecking fine again to say nonsense like this?

I completely get your frustration. Beside the fact that Mourinho has us playing some of the most tumescent football ever, another reason I want him gone as soon as possible is to have this entire hoard of his worshippers to feck off as well and spare us the unfortunate displeasure of reading the nonsense they write to protect their deity.

 

[shamans]

Showing support is fine and I still want us to win every time we play. I was wrong about Mourinho, I admit that as I thought he was the man for the job. Support is one thing but blind delusion and constant excuses are a totally different entity.

Yeah I was wrong too. You can only make the best bet but nothing is 100% success for sure. What can I say, fans just want to believe they were right. Truth is he has already failed as we hired him for instance success not long term rebuilding. However I wish he turns it around.

 

[cyberman]

Let’s cross that bridge when we get to it, shall we? If and when we start becoming too dominant maybe we can have a discussion about whether crushing the opposition every weekend is getting a little boring. I imagine 99.9% of City fans haven’t yet reached that point, mind you, 21 5 goal thrashings later.

Besides, you surely can’t be arguing that a managerial approach which makes it unlikely that we ever dominate teams to the same extent as City is some kind of perverse positive for the club?!?

Bayern, PSG and Barca have dominated their leagues in recent years which has dulled their talents for when they face the big boys in the business end of the CL.
City dominated England yet crumbled as soon as they faced a Liverpool side who put them under unfamiliar pressure.
We battle every week, we are used to that dog fight which plays into why Klopp is yet to beat us in the league imo
Besides, I hate possession football.

 

[Water Melon]

I completely get your frustration. Beside the fact that Mourinho has us playing some of the most tumescent football ever, another reason I want him gone as soon as possible is to have this entire hoard of his worshippers to feck off as well and spare us the unfortunate displeasure of reading the nonsense they write to protect their deity.

This