The Mourinho Thread: Should he stay or go? | Sacked
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This is satire, right? Please tell me you’re not being serious?!
Some of the posts the last few pages really have me questioning my sense of detecting sarcasm.
This is some next level stuff, cant believe what i am reading in this thread. Just when you tho that citizens of JM Rectumville reached the limit, they come out with another banger.
the state of this thread. We're now arguing about whether it's good to score lots of goals or not. How has it come to this?? The mighty Manchester United rather not winning 6-0?Reminds me of a really well written blog by a scouser about the Brendan Rogers/Slippy G season. Talking about the buzz of watching his team fecking blitz the opposition week after week. The excitement building all week, followed by a goalfest at the weekend. Glorious attacking football, humiliating supposedly top teams. They ended up scoring 100 goals. Won feck all, mind you. I would swap every one of our post-Fergie seasons (FA Cup, Europa Cup, whatever) for a season like that.
I'd love the City meltdown to be honest.
We dominated the second half at the Etihad last year and that feeling wore off v West Brom a week later so I question how memorable these wins are.
On another note its headlines like these that has me leaning towards Jose in..
https://www.google.ie/amp/s/www.dai...-return-Turin-Manchester-United-training.html
Paul warmly greets Jose seconds later which should be the news but that doesn't fit into what the Mail expects to run after likely loses v Juve and City.
I think a lot of the enjoyment comes from watching your team play well and/or performing heroics to overcome the odds. If the game is tightly contested mainly because your team is playing like shit then there's little enjoyment to be had, and even less so when the shit performance is not a one-off.
That infamous six game period under LvG was probably the best football we've played since Fergie retired and it lasted all of one month. On a whole, and as a supporter of Mourinhos, I do agree the football we've witnessed over the last 15 months or so has been far too inconsistent. I think we've played some good stuff but it's not enough for a proclaimed giant. I'm not fussed if can't dominate a side over 90 minutes but we need to perform like we did in 2nd half against Bournemouth on a consistent basis. Performances such as the one against Juventus can do one and I'll be extremely disappointed if we turn up in Turin and play like that again. Shitty defence or not, we're more than capable of ripping through most defences and we should be scoring more than at the rate we do.
I still have a little faith in Mourinho even though I changed my vote to "sack" after the West Ham loss.
They're sick
That's true. No matter the score, a good performance is important as well.
6-0, all day every day.
In December 2007 we beat Everton 2-1 at Old Trafford with a late penalty - it wasn't exactly a win to savour, it was an unconvincing scrap saved by a massive individual error.
In contrast, a few weeks later we absolutely demolished Newcastle 6-0 which is one of my fondest memories of that season. That second half was absolutely glorious football. The only performance that was more exhilarating during that season was the 4-0 FA Cup drubbing of Arsenal, a game we dominated from start to finish without Ronaldo.
I would say option 2 only suits managers at top clubs who can afford the resource to overhaul a squad.
Incumbent squad, scouting, fund availability, negotiation, recent success, playing style etc all affect our performance in the transfer market and thus on the pitch. In fairness to all, I think the recent sky rocketing of player prices also screwed out transfer plans to a degree. Beyond lukaku, who suits on paper but not on the pitch, players bought do suit Mourinho style just not at the quality level needed.
What we have spent seems to have been spent poorly, but without details, one cannot really apportion blame fairly, except to the extent that the management should have been clear about what they were getting in Mourinho. Add rumors of us not getting first choice targets is why i would put more blame on management for the condition of the squad. But the poor start to this season is primarily Mourinho's doing even if he did it to spite the board
There is only so much coaching can do, as evidence by how much big clubs spend. The squad lacks quality and old age is telling on some - even a new manager would not fix that. We have had 3 managers who have under performed or failed. At this point, I would rather see changes elsewhere than try another manager
What I say won't happen. But if asked me that I could write the script for the Manchester Derby. It'd go something like this:
0-1; 1-1; 1-2; 2-2; 2-3; 3-3 and 3-4 (90 min winner). Of course, I have no issue with a 25-0 win as well. But for pure entertainment, I thoroughly enjoy these sort of games. Heck, on second thought, I'd repeat that 5-2 over Tottenham in 08/09 every bloody game we play. I don't mind going 2-0 down if we're going to score 5 goals in the 2nd half.
Or how about the 2-1 win against Arsenal at OT where Hargreaves scored the late free kick a few months later. I love thrashing teams and I love close games. It's why I love the sport.
I have no idea why anyone would bash anyone else for an opinion - @cheeky_backheel prefers one type over the other, who are we to tell him/her what's right or wrong?. It's absurd and shows the complete and utter shit state of this sorry excuse of a football forum.
Supporting a manager does not make anyone a fanboy, there's lots of people who still want here for somewhat understandable reasons ,acknowledge his faults, feel he needs time to turn it around etc. Then there's some absolute loons who we all know on here who do deserve that tag. Blaming Woodward for our players inability to pass the ball among themselves or play attacking football, call any shit player a 'board signing', open threads slating our players, claiming they've downed tools and other such tripe, support him when he belittles the club and players, explaining to us that Jose has a point when he tells us Sevilla have better players than us, rationalise every stupid statement he makes no matter how dumb,blame everyone and everything else, and the latest, claim not to like when it when we score too many goals. That's worse that being a fanboy, that's being in a cult
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Everyone enjoys a last minute winner but it's not perfection because you've done something wrong to concede in the first place. So you actually want the team to do bad then? to get a close game?
I think I'll log off for a while. For my own sanity. Not worth wasting time on this rubbish.
Wasn't that late actually, 70th minute. And no matter how important that win was, that game, for me, is nowhere near as memorable as the FA Cup game. Or the CL semi-final second leg next year at the Emirates.
Calling this a "sorry excuse of a football forum" because people choose to debate a VERY controversial claim - that your team scoring a lot of goals is not as enjoyable as scoring fewer goals - is, well, odd. There is nothing wrong with debate. Actually, that's what makes a forum interesting. Would you prefer RAWK where it's basically North Korea and you have to toe the party line?
Debating? Bar maybe one or two posters, there's not much debating since that comment. Also, there's literally nothing controversial about this. I mean, if the poster came out and said "I prefer losing to winning" then yeah that's controversial but this, my word, it's not.
I don't know. "I do not want my team to score lots of goals and I don't enjoy my team winning games with five, six, seven goals" is as controversial as it gets. It's really fecking strange, no matter how you look at it. If you speak as a neutral, that's one thing: I obviously prefer a hard-fought 3-3 than one team steamrolling the other. But as a fan? The idea that a fan does not enjoy his team winning by a big margin is, I repeat, incredibly odd. He basically says he doesn't enjoy his own team playing brilliantly.
He probably prefers losing a few games over the season over winning all of them because then the team would run away with the league.
Yours wasn't that much of an argument either. All you did was point to goals scored by great attackers in one of his team's. That would be like me claiming Benitez is an attacking coach and Sir Alex a defensive one because the former's Liverpool had a better goal for by 9 goals and goal difference by 6 goals in the 08/09. Mourinho has always been a pragmatic manager and never an attack minded one. His first instinct is to keep things solid and tight. He's sometimes been in charge of high scoring teams because he's been at some of biggest clubs and in charge of some of the best players. That doesn't inherently mean he's an attacking coach.
. That's like claiming *hypothetical* Valverde is an attacking coach if his Barcelona score a decent number of goals while his entire career he's been a fairly cautious manager.
Jose Almighty has some poor souls in a tangle. We'll soon have threads questioning whether we really want the team to win or lose.That’s exactly how I feel, thank you for expressing it so well for those in the minority. As you mentioned, he does have his faults (many), but there are many reasons that give me pause before wanting to replace him:
- It is not an easy job and comes with intense pressure from the media and the fans. The pressure affects not just the manager but can also get to the team.
- Mourinho is a serial winner, and he must know he is now fighting for his job and perhaps his reputation.
- I view the Sanchez purchase in January as a major disruption to the team. As soon as I saw him play for us, I saw there was a problem. Even so, how can you really fault Mourinho for persisting for so long playing Sanchez and playing him on the LW? Isn’t that what you are supposed to do with a superstar player?
- He now seems to be doing the right thing with Sanchez and perhaps Lukaku too.
- Every manager will commit errors. But at least Mourinho is not as obstinate as other managers. For example, compare his handling of Rooney to LVGs handling of Rooney.
- Many players will say he is a great coach to play under. I was surprised to see Hazard say he would like to play under him again.
Not really. People are a bit alarmed that a fan wants us to not win by a margin. It's pretty basic stuff. Your alarm at a natural reaction is a bit strange, though.
Can a win be a loss?
Terrific post,the revisionism and narrative twisting really is cultlike
The special supreme leader is always responsible for all the good that happens and never responsible for the bad
I see today's topic is bashing Mourinho about scoring goals. Getting a tad bit embarrassing the way people find topics to bash him about.
Who the hell are you to decide peoples reactions?
Agreed.
The worry that I have is that by going year after year without winning the league, we will find it increasingly difficult to do so.
The faster we win the title the better. Otherwise we may become another LFC - decent footballing style and mentality, but can't win the league for 3 decades. This was the very reason why I wanted Jose - he is the most winningest manager still in management.
My fear is that we hire someone like Wenger (not Wenger himself, but someone like him, who has a great playing style, but can't win the league), then we won't win the league for at least another decade. With Jose in charge, you know that he will move heaven and Earth to win the league, no matter what. He will even risk losing his own job, to ensure he gets what he needs to win the league. I was absolutely gutted when he wasn't backed in the Summer, as I was convinced that he was going to finally create a squad which could win the league, but alas, Woodward had other ideas (get top 4, while spending minimally).
There are 3 occasions when Jose was allowed to do whatever the hell he wanted. Porto. Chelsea (1st spell). Inter. And he won heaps of trophies with those clubs.
Am I deciding people's reactions or commenting on them?
Funny how the ardent Mourinho fans now hate goals. I mean, it’s bizarre.
I can appreciate that. Both are good for me. Its just that for me, there's nothing quite like a last minute winner when all hope seems to be lost.
But to expand on that you have PSG etc who thrash domestic sides so much that the buzz has worn off.
Another City season and you'll naturally see them turn to Europe for vindication as every other top team in a dominated league. Routine big wins still become routine.
For sure you can bet on it. Nothing will surprise me anymore.
It all started when it was pointed out that we hadn't scored 5 goals (or more) in a game for 5 years. City had done that 21 times since so fingers were rightly pointed at our managers. We hired 3 defensive managers and this is the result.
Then the Jose fanboys told us he's attacking manager and used RM goalscoring record of the 2011/12 season to prove their point. We disproved that and now we answered that he's not an attacking manager suddenly they're telling us they'd rather have close games and not win by a clear advantage. Surely if he's an attacking manager he'd want to score as many goals as possible or that would be his intention rightt?
Who here has even said that?
Calling my reaction of "everyone's entitled to their own opinion" is strange how?
Leeway?
He has had a poor start to the season (which I put down, mostly, to Woodward and the way he handled the transfer window, which Jose was relying on so much). Last season he did well. The season before that he did well.
I do not believe in sacking the manager, the moment we lose a few games. Not even CFC would do something like that and they are notorious for changing managers every 2 seasons.
If we are in or around 8th place, on January 1st, then I may change my mind, but until then, I want to see how things pan out.
Many fans believe that if Jose leaves, we will instantly improve and challenge for top honours. I do not believe this to be the case, which is another reason why I want to hang onto Jose. IMO, we need him right now, to make top 4.
Oh don’t be so precious you little flower, it was obviously hyperbole. It’s ok I hate goals too. Narrow wins are the bizz.
We shouldn't win.
Who are we to take points away from another team! We may get one of them relegated!
Every game should be a draw.
A 0-0 draw.
The 7-1 win against Roma was probably the most enjoyable 90 minutes of football in my almost 40 years watching Manchester United.
There’s been better moments but for sustained pleasure I would struggle to think of a game that I enjoyed more (8-2 against Arsenal would come close tbf).
Blows my mind that anyone could have been watching that thinking “Jaysus, lads, take the foot off the gas, ffs! Nobody wants to see the opposition get humiliated“
I actually sort of agree with the premise but probably not to the same extent. Probably a different argument to an extent but I just know I wouldn't automatically rank a game highly (in my memory of great United matches) just because we've smashed a team.
The 8-2 match, as an example, I remember watching in a bar and enjoying the hell out of it at the time but I don't really rank it highly due to the circumstances of the day (main reason being Arsenal were fecking shite from start to finish with their makeshift side).
Roma in 2007 on the other hand were a good side who beat us in the first leg. I remember even though we were playing so well that season, I was expecting a narrow win at best in that second leg. To destroy them with such good attacking football (first few goals are brilliant) makes it memorable - although De Rossi still managed to score (arguably) the best goal on the night.
I guess my point is, you want to know the opposition you've beaten by a high score were worthy opponents. I mean that's why most of the best United matches are close wins, rather than demolitions.
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