The Mourinho Thread: Should he stay or go? | Sacked

[amolbhatia50k]

I wouldn't argue that pep hasn't done great work at city.
But its revisionism to suggest that the likes of Kompany, De Bruyne, Stones, Silva etc weren't rated before Pep.
Sterling is probably his best example of changing people opinions of him, after the euros people expected sterling to be dumped by Pep but he's been one of his better performers.
As for improving Otamendi and Stones he still felt that the defence needed improving and spent huge money on Laporte in January.

You appear to be dressing around the fact that it's terrific management in all those areas. I didn't say that Silva and KDB from dust turned into great players under him. Rather that the general feeling was that their strength in central midfield was actually fairly low and that they required heavy investment to improve it. Instead KDB and Silva became a part of what was a problem and turned it into a huge strength.

Otamendi and Stones have been excellent for them. Denying this is pointless and signing a third CB is a pretty irrelevant point to make. No team has two good CBs. And improving your players is always the sign of excellent management, and is precisely what he did.

 

[WensleyMU]

From one of the most special posters in this thread, I’m honored to receive such a commendation from you. I do enjoy your posts in here a lot as well.

Edit: Special mention to your constant defense that Mourinho is a quality manager and doing a good job, but then you also said that Woody hired three dud managers in a row and you don’t trust him to hire the fourth. That was special as well

You obviously haven't been here for long. It's a normal retort to the the post he quoted given the logic applied therein.

On a forum where week by week the target of abuse changes from one player to another (currently Lukaku, previously Lindelof) the post was garbage. I criticised the post on that basis. This abuse isn't attributed to one side or the other, nor are there even sides to begin with, unless you are 12 years old and thats your thing. This place is just outright miserable and the vast majority of the negativity doesnt come from those who are more patient with Mourinho, but from those who want him gone. Some of who seem to have got extremely personal over it all, which is just odd.

As for your edit @Cloud7, I haven't ever said Ed has hired 3 dud managers. And I have simply argued that Jose is a good manager and that he has taken us forward. I am pleased you enjoy my posts, I do try to give them some supporting evidence where possible and try to avoid the aggressive emotion some use to put forward their arguments.

As long as theres demonstrable progress, Mourinho has my support. Its really quite simple.

 

[Dec9003]

You appear to be dressing around the fact that it's terrific management in all those areas. I didn't say that Silva and KDB from dust turned into great players under him. Rather that the general feeling was that their strength in central midfield was actually fairly low and that they required heavy investment to improve it. Instead KDB and Silva became a part of what was a problem and turned it into a huge strength.

Otamendi and Stones have been excellent for them. Denying this is pointless and signing a third CB is a pretty irrelevant point to make. No team has two good CBs. And improving your players is always the sign of excellent management, and is precisely what he did.

Nope, I'm not dressing around anything.
He got 100 points in the league, you don't do that without having a complete squad.
Perhaps it was said that they needed investment in midfield, but it's not something that I can remember.
As for bringing Laporte in its certainly worth mentioning.
Stones was playing well until Laporte came in then he was dropped for a pretty long time.
I was never saying that he hasn't improved players at city, but the notion that many of the players were laughed at and that we had as good a squad as them at the time isn't true imo.

 

[Dec9003]

It’s a fair point about stability, but does Mourinho actually offer that?. Can he be trusted to behave himself, not fall out with players/staff/owners or implode?. He is more about winning at all costs as quickly as possible rather than stability.

I think the stability has to come from the club in terms of a style of play, type of players recruited etc. Have to be fortunate for any manager to last more than 3 years now.

I think he can yeah.
A lot of the times that he has moved on from a club he's either been sacked (rightly or wrongly) or he's moved on to bigger things.
I think if we offer Mourinho a stable environment he can stay for a long time and do good things.
On the other hand I do see your point about the club needing to be stable in the first place. That's something I think we can all agree that we've struggled with post Fergie.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Nope, I'm not dressing around anything.
He got 100 points in the league, you don't do that without having a complete squad.
Perhaps it was said that they needed investment in midfield, but it's not something that I can remember.
As for bringing Laporte in its certainly worth mentioning.
Stones was playing well until Laporte came in then he was dropped for a pretty long time.
I was never saying that he hasn't improved players at city, but the notion that many of the players were laughed at and that we had as good a squad as them at the time isn't true imo.

Except you are doing just that. Both CBs excelled under Pep when people thought it was a problem area. KDB and Silva excelled in CM when they were considered central midfielders and people definitely felt it was area for them.

It is absolutely true that their squad has undergone a revisionism from most on the caf largely due to how well Pep has coached them. As I mentioned earlier our squads were considered by most to be on par when the two took over or at least after the first window when we added Pogba and co.

 

[Dec9003]

Except you are doing just that. Both CBs excelled under Pep when people thought it was a problem area. KDB and Silva excelled in CM when they were considered central midfielders and people definitely felt it was area for them.

It is absolutely true that their squad has undergone a revisionism from most on the caf largely due to how well Pep has coached them. As I mentioned earlier our squads were considered by most to be on par when the two took over or at least after the first window when we added Pogba and co.

I disagree with pretty much everything you've just said so we might as well leave it there mate!

 

[Andycoleno9]

You appear to be dressing around the fact that it's terrific management in all those areas. I didn't say that Silva and KDB from dust turned into great players under him. Rather that the general feeling was that their strength in central midfield was actually fairly low and that they required heavy investment to improve it. Instead KDB and Silva became a part of what was a problem and turned it into a huge strength.

Otamendi and Stones have been excellent for them. Denying this is pointless and signing a third CB is a pretty irrelevant point to make. No team has two good CBs. And improving your players is always the sign of excellent management, and is precisely what he did.

Guardiola did some excellent stuff for City, nobody can't deny that but backing that he has from owners is insane. You can't compete with that.
He had Sterling, Sane, B.silva but he still got 70 mil for Mahrez. He had Stones, Kompany, Otamendi, Mangala but still got 70mil for Laporte. When his players( Bravo, Nolito, Stones) plays bad, he buys another.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

On a forum where week by week the target of abuse changes from one player to another (currently Lukaku, previously Lindelof) the post was garbage. I criticised the post on that basis. This abuse isn't attributed to one side or the other, nor are there even sides to begin with, unless you are 12 years old and thats your thing. This place is just outright miserable and the vast majority of the negativity doesnt come from those who are more patient with Mourinho, but from those who want him gone. Some of who seem to have got extremely personal over it all, which is just odd.

As for your edit @Cloud7, I haven't ever said Ed has hired 3 dud managers. And I have simply argued that Jose is a good manager and that he has taken us forward. I am pleased you enjoy my posts, I do try to give them some supporting evidence where possible and try to avoid the aggressive emotion some use to put forward their arguments.

As long as theres demonstrable progress, Mourinho has my support. Its really quite simple.

It wasn't garbage really. You're just seeing it that way because ironically you're a very ardent admirer of Mourinho. I've seen much worse from both from both pro Mourinho and anti Mourinho posters. He was just using the logic of the post he quoted against it , which is fair game always.

This place is miserable because it is a forum for one of the biggest football clubs on the planet who are not performing. That you find this surprising is rather odd. And everyone here gets perosnal. There's always a few on any forum.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Guardiola did some excellent stuff for City, nobody can't deny that but backing that he has from owners is insane. You can't compete with that.
He had Sterling, Sane, B.silva but he still got 70 mil for Mahrez. He had Stones, Kompany, Otamendi, Mangala but still got 70mil for Laporte. When his players( Bravo, Nolito, Stones) plays bad, he buys another.

He's also backed because of how well he manages the team. Even City wouldn't back an under performing Mourinho the way they back Pep. He's done wonders with Sane and Sterling and hence he can spend on a third key wide player. He's improved Stones and Otamendi and the board trusts him with a key third defender to replace Kompany long term. We spend 90 million on Pogba who disappointings. We sign two CBs who are poor. We sign a 70 million pound striker with little technical ability. Our young stars seemingly don't progress. We sign Mkhitarian and he's awful. We replace him with the expensive Sanchez and he's awful too.

So it's natural that the board has doubt over his management qualities when he screwed up. Maybe they should sacked him if they seriously doubted him but the login remains.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

I disagree with pretty much everything you've just said so we might as well leave it there mate!

Not even sure what is debatable about any of that given it was the consensus of the forum as well. But alright.

 

[Roboc7]

I think he can yeah.
A lot of the times that he has moved on from a club he's either been sacked (rightly or wrongly) or he's moved on to bigger things.
I think if we offer Mourinho a stable environment he can stay for a long time and do good things.
On the other hand I do see your point about the club needing to be stable in the first place. That's something I think we can all agree that we've struggled with post Fergie.

Yes and he has to offer stability as well, that will mean towing the line sometimes, maybe he has learnt his lesson from the summer but can’t see it personally.

Ultimately the board and Mourinho need to work out how to get back to the top,what they are prepared to spend, profile/type of players etc and reach a consensus. I see the board and Mourinho going in different directionsthough and cannot see it working. In the end keeping him won’t make us any more stable.

 

[WensleyMU]

It wasn't garbage really. You're just seeing it that way because ironically you're a very ardent admirer of Mourinho. I've seen much worse from both from both pro Mourinho and anti Mourinho posters. He was just using the logic of the post he quoted against it , which is fair game always.

This place is miserable because it is a forum for one of the biggest football clubs on the planet who are not performing. That you find this surprising is rather odd. And everyone here gets perosnal. There's always a few on any forum.

Most of my arguments in favour of Jose are purely to counter the views in here based on fabrication. Whether they are claims about our spending, quotes from Mr senior source, misrepresentation of pre and post match comments, rewriting of the past 11 months or anything else that really doesnt hold up to scrutiny.

And I have also seen worse to be fair, from other anti Jose posters. Many of who would enjoy seeing United lose, the absolute weirdos.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Most of my arguments in favour of Jose are purely to counter the views in here based on fabrication. Whether they are claims about our spending, quotes from Mr senior source, misrepresentation of pre and post match comments, rewriting of the past 11 months or anything else that really doesnt hold up to scrutiny.

And I have also seen worse to be fair, from other anti Jose posters. Many of who would enjoy seeing United lose, the absolute weirdos.

They're in the exact same boat as the wierdos who hero worship Mourinho like he's some sort of religious figure who they seemingly hold dear. They'll trash the club, the players, the owners, ex players, and even SAF to defend their favourite demi God. They're complete nutters too.

 

[WensleyMU]

@MackRobinson, my first post on the forum. You can find it in the missing Martial Thread should you wish to.

1. 
   

   [*]Does anyone have any real news about Martial or is it all speculation? I see he hasn't travelled to Germany but he's not the only player who hasn't.
   
   I'm in the camp which wants Martial to stay but also supports Mourinho. I won't pretend to claim I know what's going on as honestly, I don't know. What I do know is that the media are full of nonsense so I take any reports with wholesale order of salt.
   
   In regards to Martial, if we lose him, we lose an element to our football that in my voew, we can't afford to lose. Unpredictability (when he's in form anyway). We are far to laboured in attack at times due to static players and a lack of cohesion. Martial is the exception here rather than the rule so for me, the club needs to keep him. He's also better than Willian in my opinion. This may be because I've seen more of Martial, but it's my opinion nonetheless.
   
   Is it a case of Jose or Martial though? Not at all. I don't understand the squabbling above and in the other Martial thread over a situation nobody even knows actually exists.
   + QuoteReply
   [*]Aug 5, 2018

2. 
   
   The funniest part about it is it looks like I was right. This is because I always take a step back to view the situation and also because I view the media with contempt. Doesnt really stack up with this "Jose cult" stuff now does it.
   

 

[Rash Decision]

It's definitely a cult of personality at this point. What's bothersome is they just don't slate the Woodward. The slate the board, players (Pogba and Martial have been treated like garbage by these guys), and the fans. I don't like calling anyone out but @WensleyMU , @CA1 , @cheeky_backheel and the rest of the enablers' defense of Mourinho has been shameful to say the least. Look how many times they dare critique Jose in their post history.

Don't disagree but just feel like pointing out that there's nothing new about players being shamefully treated on this forum in general. Many of the Pogba and Martial supporters are equally guilty of treating other players like garbage.

 

[Rash Decision]

Yes and he has to offer stability as well, that will mean towing the line sometimes, maybe he has learnt his lesson from the summer but can’t see it personally.

Ultimately the board and Mourinho need to work out how to get back to the top,what they are prepared to spend, profile/type of players etc and reach a consensus. I see the board and Mourinho going in different directionsthough and cannot see it working. In the end keeping him won’t make us any more stable.

I hope the plan will not involve Mourinho. Even if he "stabilises the ship" and gets us back into the top 4, I cannot stand his football or toxic selfish personality anymore and dread the prospect of "stability" with him at the helm.

 

[Johan07]

That is easier said than done when the coaches are from in-congruent schools of thought on how the game should be played.

Mourinho (and Klopp also) would rather develop an attack as quickly as possible, with pace and directness, hoping to get an opportunity before the defence settles in, while LvG, pep and the total football school in general, opt for a 'boa constrictor' approach of dominate possession enough and the opposition will crack eventually. Total football proponents prefer to maintain possession than make a mid probability attempt on goal.

The problem we have is a consequence of following LvG with Mourinho, has most of the players suited to one approach will be unfit in the other.

Mourinho would have had an easier task if he had a more generic squad or if not fully suited to his style, needing less changes to get a squad suitable to playing like he wants or the unlimited amount of money to overhaul in short period (like he did at Chelsea at first stint and Inter).

Mourinho's ideal squad probably consists of
- GK that can kick long with accuracy (like Cech),
- CF that can hold up and link play, preferably dominant in the air
- fast pace and high work rate full backs and wingers
- athletic CBs capable of playing a high line to shorten the field (e.g. Pepe+Ramos)
- destroyer DM that shields his defence
- enough height in team for dead balls

If Mourinho goes, it would be better to establish a philosophy and only hire coaches in-line with it, otherwise we might need another squad overhaul and/or have the inherited squad hinder the new manager

Great post, and factually correct when it comes to Mourinho. I am not sure that I agree with the last paragraph though. Dont think we are in need in of that much of a squad overhaul that we could not survive a switch to a new manager whio would play another type of football. Uniteds current squad has plenty of players that would do better in a more offensive setup. Lingard, Sanchez, Rashford, Fred, Herrera just to name a few.
For me there are three of Mourinhos first-choice players that need to go (or accept a role as squad players) if we would be able to transition to another type of football: Lukaku, Matic and Smalling. Or maybe not Smalling, he looked OK under LvG but then he needs to be paired with someone like Blind as he was then if he is going to survive in a more offensive system. But Matic and Lukaku needs to go; Matic because he does not and never had the legs for a more offensive setup, Lukaku because he does not have the stamina to play a more modern CF-role.
To my mind we should focus on getting replacements/alternatives to Matic and Lukaku next summer. Regardless if Mourinho stays or not. They cannot be part of the central line in a more offensive setup IMO.
IT should be doable though; 4-5 new players and such a transition should be possible.

 

[Kag]

On a forum where week by week the target of abuse changes from one player to another (currently Lukaku, previously Lindelof) the post was garbage. I criticised the post on that basis. This abuse isn't attributed to one side or the other, nor are there even sides to begin with, unless you are 12 years old and thats your thing. This place is just outright miserable and the vast majority of the negativity doesnt come from those who are more patient with Mourinho, but from those who want him gone. Some of who seem to have got extremely personal over it all, which is just odd.

As for your edit @Cloud7, I haven't ever said Ed has hired 3 dud managers. And I have simply argued that Jose is a good manager and that he has taken us forward. I am pleased you enjoy my posts, I do try to give them some supporting evidence where possible and try to avoid the aggressive emotion some use to put forward their arguments.

As long as theres demonstrable progress, Mourinho has my support. Its really quite simple.

The problem seems to be with your assessment of demonstrable progress.

The quality of our football is dreadful and (presently) so are the results. That is why there is negativity surrounding Mourinho. It’s warranted and it’s right.

 

[Viral United]

He was not trying to prove anything, he was just out of ideas. if it had worked he would have heralded himself as some footballing genius.

May be, but if you look at Jose antic you never know.
But playing McTominay as CB, is one hell of idea you can even think about it.
As the person has said, he just making a point to every one that he didn't have cb so he has to start McTominay, he might never thought it could back fire this much.

 

[WensleyMU]

They're in the exact same boat as the wierdos who hero worship Mourinho like he's some sort of religious figure who they seemingly hold dear. They'll trash the club, the players, the owners, ex players, and even SAF to defend their favourite demi God. They're complete nutters too.

The board are fully deserving of criticism though. Only a tiny minority would think otherwise.

I view the ex players turned pundits like this. They are entitled to their opinion, I don't pay all that much attention.

The players, like the manager are part of the current team. I will also include the coaching staff because for some strange reason some keep claiming the current coaches are the answer... well they are all part of the team, they win and lose together, they deserve warranted criticism and praise.

As for Sir Alex... They must be parody accounts.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

The board are fully deserving of criticism though. Only a tiny minority would think otherwise.

I view the ex players turned pundits like this. They are entitled to their opinion, I don't pay all that much attention.

The players, like the manager are part of the current team. I will also include the coaching staff because for some strange reason some keep claiming the current coaches are the answer... well they are all part of the team, they win and lose together, they deserve warranted criticism and praise.

As for Sir Alex... They must be parody accounts.

I don't know why you're breaking it all down. I know a lot of people (like players and board) deserve criticism (as the manager does). But if we're calling out weirdos let's call out all of them.

 

[Mainoldo]

The board are fully deserving of criticism though. Only a tiny minority would think otherwise.

I view the ex players turned pundits like this. They are entitled to their opinion, I don't pay all that much attention.

The players, like the manager are part of the current team. I will also include the coaching staff because for some strange reason some keep claiming the current coaches are the answer... well they are all part of the team, they win and lose together, they deserve warranted criticism and praise.

As for Sir Alex... They must be parody accounts.

The board deserve criticism for taking money out of the club. Other than that I don’t actually think people know what they are criticising the board for, because if thus same people had Woodward’s power they would have not played it any different. Me included.

 

[Nate Dogg]

I hope he is gone before before the Jan transfer window, as it will be painful for all when he starts bitching about lack of money and transfers.

 

[WensleyMU]

I don't know why you're breaking it all down. I know a lot of people (like players and board) deserve criticism (as the manager does). But if we're calling out weirdos let's call out all of them.

I think the weirdo tag should be exclusive to so called United fans who want us to lose.

The board deserve criticism for taking money out of the club. Other than that I don’t actually think people know what they are criticising the board for, because if thus same people had Woodward’s power they would have not played it any different. Me included.

Except had they not taken quite as much money from the club there would have been a little more to spend.

I'm critical because they don't seem to have the same ambitions as a club like United deserve. Top 4 and CL money seems to be what they are happy with and what they will invest towards.

 

[Andycoleno9]

He's also backed because of how well he manages the team. Even City wouldn't back an under performing Mourinho the way they back Pep. He's done wonders with Sane and Sterling and hence he can spend on a third key wide player. He's improved Stones and Otamendi and the board trusts him with a key third defender to replace Kompany long term. We spend 90 million on Pogba who disappointings. We sign two CBs who are poor. We sign a 70 million pound striker with little technical ability. Our young stars seemingly don't progress. We sign Mkhitarian and he's awful. We replace him with the expensive Sanchez and he's awful too.

So it's natural that the board has doubt over his management qualities when he screwed up. Maybe they should sacked him if they seriously doubted him but the login remains.

Did you watch City in first season? They were nothing special. They were trashed in couple of games and won nothing. Bravo, Nolito and Stones( all peps signings) were shit. But then Pep said, i want another gk. I want whole new defence. And he got everything. Even fecking backup full back for 35 mil, ffs. He sold veteran full backs. Jose still must play Young and Valencia. Jose won 2 trophies in his first season but still in next season he was without right winger.
Look, i am not saying that board needs to bring every player who Jose wants or to spend 300,400mil every year. I am just saying that he and Pep don't have same conditions in their clubs. Pep has unlimited budget. It is hard to compete with that. Caf is full of praise for Pep and at the same time, they don't see that Pep is doing most of things for which Jose is criticized here.
Pep doesn't play with kids, he allowed Sancho to leave and only young academy player who sometimes play is Foden. He gets praise for some transfers which were second buys on that positions( Ederson, Laporte, Mahrez). But we are off topic now...

 

[Mainoldo]

I think the weirdo tag should be exclusive to so called United fans who want us to lose.



Except had they not taken quite as much money from the club there would have been a little more to spend.

I'm critical because they don't seem to have the same ambitions as a club like United deserve. Top 4 and CL money seems to be what they are happy with and what they will invest towards.

More money to spend on who? In the last 5 years I don’t remember money being a problem to sign anyone. They run to a practical business model where even if we had unlimited funs you’d expect a club to run towards. Yes I’m sure a lot of us would have liked to see we’ve built the best training ground in the UK or we’ve refurbished Old Trafford. But Real Madrid still play in the same run down stadium too.

No one but the fans have made up this top 4 myth. Like I’ve said, if they was happy with top 4. Why hire a manager who is renowned for winning the league? The reason we are in this mess with Mourinho is because we put winning a league title over everything else. You can’t flip flop with your views just to be critical. If you support Mourinho you can’t criticise the club for not i.e. not investing in longevity (just an example).

 

[Mainoldo]

Did you watch City in first season? They were nothing special. They were trashed in couple of games and won nothing. Bravo, Nolito and Stones( all peps signings) were shit. But then Pep said, i want another gk. I want whole new defence. And he got everything. Even fecking backup full back for 35 mil, ffs. He sold veteran full backs. Jose still must play Young and Valencia. Jose won 2 trophies in his first season but still in next season he was without right winger.
Look, i am not saying that board needs to bring every player who Jose wants or to spend 300,400mil every year. I am just saying that he and Pep don't have same conditions in their clubs. Pep has unlimited budget. It is hard to compete with that. Caf is full of praise for Pep and at the same time, they don't see that Pep is doing most of things for which Jose is criticized here.
Pep doesn't play with kids, he allowed Sancho to leave and only young academy player who sometimes play is Foden. He gets praise for some transfers which were second buys on that positions( Ederson, Laporte, Mahrez). But we are off topic now...

He didn’t want a whole new defence. He had to get a whole new defence. There’s a deference’s. Stop acting like all his full backs weren’t realised or sold. What was he suppose to do? Play himself at the back. I’m sure your allowed to buy a new keeper if your keeper is clearly sh!t. Sticking with Bravo would have been pure idiocy.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

I think the weirdo tag should be exclusive to so called United fans who want us to lose.



Except had they not taken quite as much money from the club there would have been a little more to spend.

I'm critical because they don't seem to have the same ambitions as a club like United deserve. Top 4 and CL money seems to be what they are happy with and what they will invest towards.

Sure Because only people who want United to lose are weirdos. That makes no sense whatsoever.

 

[Andycoleno9]

He didn’t want a whole new defence. He had to get a whole new defence. There’s a deference’s. Stop acting like all his full backs weren’t realised or sold. What was he suppose to do? Play himself at the back. I’m sure your allowed to buy a new keeper if your keeper is clearly sh!t. Sticking with Bravo would have been pure idiocy.

Wait, so Pep with Hart(Bravo)- Zabaleta(Sagna) Clichy(Kolarov), Otamendi, Kompany(Mangala) needed new defence? But Jose should stick with Young, Valencia, Smalling, Rojo and Jones.
Sticking with Bravo is pure idiocy but Jose is attacked over and over and over because he bought two defenders and he is not allowed to buy another? What a double standard here.

That is exactly my point. City upgraded their defence with aprox 400mil euros on 5 players and 2 goalkeepers. All players except Ederson were proven and expensive. Jose got one defender per transfer window. Neither of them was proven or expensive( in terms of todays market).

 

[sunama]

I hope he is gone before before the Jan transfer window, as it will be painful for all when he starts bitching about lack of money and transfers.

Why not hope that he and our team turn the situation around and go on a winning run which takes us to top 4 (or higher)?
To actually hope that Jose (and our team) do so badly, that Jose gets the sack, fits in with my theory that (alleged) fans are hoping we do badly and also have an extreme dislike for some of the MUFC staff.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Why not hope that he and our team turn the situation around and go on a winning run which takes us to top 4 (or higher)?
To actually hope that Jose (and our team) do so badly, that Jose gets the sack, fits in with my theory that (alleged) fans are hoping we do badly and also have an extreme dislike for some of the MUFC staff.

I hope Mourinho gets sacked too but I want us to win every game. Theory failed (on me).

Arsenal fans wanted Wenger to go for ages. Doesn't mean they wanted their team to lose.

 

[Mainoldo]

Wait, so Pep with Hart(Bravo)- Zabaleta(Sagna) Clichy(Kolarov), Otamendi, Kompany(Mangala) needed new defence? But Jose should stick with Young, Valencia, Smalling, Rojo and Jones.
Sticking with Bravo is pure idiocy but Jose is attacked over and over and over because he bought two defenders and he is not allowed to buy another? What a double standard here.

That is exactly my point. City upgraded their defence with aprox 400mil euros on 5 players and 2 goalkeepers. All players except Ederson were proven and expensive. Jose got one defender per transfer window. Neither of them was proven or expensive( in terms of todays market).

All that waiting why didn’t you look things up?

Hart got loaned out first season. Pretty sure he made it clearn to him he’s not going to be his number 1 keeper.

Bravo I said why would anyone keep picking a below par player just to prove they was right. Did we keep Howard and Carrol for long as number 1?

Zabaleta/ Sagna - Contract expired
Clichy/ Kolarvo - Contract expired/accepted a good offer
Mangela - sent on loan to Valencia

So he had Kompany, Otamendi and Stones. Yeah I’ll say he needed some players wouldn’t you?

Jose is attacking because there is nothing wrong with the players he’s brought. He just can’t get a tune out of them. It’s not a double standard because Ed himself said we are not buying players who are not better than what we have. So what is your problem?

Saying our defenders weren’t expensive is like saying Pogba wasn’t expensive because Coutinho went for £100m plus the following year. Your really not making sense.

 

[Andycoleno9]

All that waiting why didn’t you look things up?

Hart got loaned out first season. Pretty sure he made it clearn to him he’s not going to be his number 1 keeper.

Bravo I said why would anyone keep picking a below par player just to prove they was right. Did we keep Howard and Carrol for long as number 1?

Zabaleta/ Sagna - Contract expired
Clichy/ Kolarvo - Contract expired/accepted a good offer
Mangela - sent on loan to Valencia

So he had Kompany, Otamendi and Stones. Yeah I’ll say he needed some players wouldn’t you?

Jose is attacking because there is nothing wrong with the players he’s brought. He just can’t get a tune out of them. It’s not a double standard because Ed himself said we are not buying players who are not better than what we have. So what is your problem?

Saying our defenders weren’t expensive is like saying Pogba wasn’t expensive because Coutinho went for £100m plus the following year. Your really not making sense.

Wow, amazing how you can spin things to your favour. Just amazing.
Jose also accepted that he is wrong about defenders but he got the message; "shut up and play them". Pep got another players.
And for full backs; Jose inherited injured and fat Shaw, Darmian, Young and Valencia. Young and Valencia were also out of contract but Jose was forced to give them new contracts. Why? Do you think that Jose would rather keep them than buying Sandro, Mendy, Rose, Walker or some other 50mil full back?
I can't believe that we are even talking about all this. To compare Pep's budget and status in City with any other manager is ridiculous

 

[Mainoldo]

Wow, amazing how you can spin things to your favour. Just amazing.
Jose also accepted that he is wrong about defenders but he got the message; "shut up and play them". Pep got another players.
And for full backs; Jose inherited injured and fat Shaw, Darmian, Young and Valencia. Young and Valencia were also out of contract but Jose was forced to give them new contracts. Why? Do you think that Jose would rather keep them than buying Sandro, Mendy, Rose, Walker or some other 50mil full back?
I can't believe that we are even talking about all this. To compare Pep's budget and status in City with any other manager is ridiculous

Lool. Spin things in my favour? The truth is the truth. So the City stuff was facts you agree?

If Jose wanted full backs, why didn’t he get full backs? Like you said Young contract was up, let him go if you don’t want him, it’s not like he was on cheap wages. Valencia I don’t know how true that was but let him go too if that was the case. If he wanted Kyle Walker there is no evidence to date that the.board would not have get him Kyle Walker.. he was quite rightly told in the summer if you want Sandro get rid of Luke Shaw. Maybe if he never gave Ashley Young that new contract and boast about how many more games he had in him he could have been with Sandro and Shaw right now.

No one is spinning drivel except you. Now apparently Jose is being forced to give players contracts. I like this new narrative. When Jorginho succeeds are we going to say Jose wanted him but had to give Fellaini a new contract because there was no funds available?

 

[Andycoleno9]

Lool. Spin things in my favour? The truth is the truth. So the City stuff was facts you agree?

If Jose wanted full backs, why didn’t he get full backs? Like you said Young contract was up, let him go if you don’t want him, it’s not like he was on cheap wages. Valencia I don’t know how true that was but let him go too if that was the case. If he wanted Kyle Walker there is no evidence to date that the.board would not have get him Kyle Walker.. he was quite rightly told in the summer if you want Sandro get rid of Luke Shaw. Maybe if he never gave Ashley Young that new contract and boast about how many more games he had in him he could have been with Sandro and Shaw right now.

No one is spinning drivel except you. Now apparently Jose is being forced to give players contracts. I like this new narrative. When Jorginho succeeds are we going to say Jose wanted him but had to give Fellaini a new contract because there was no funds available?

Yes, you are right. Board gave Jose 500mil but Jose told them; "No, thank you. Valencia and Young are my boys." And Jose didn't want Perisic or Alderveireld or Willian. Meh, i am finished with you. You just spin your theories.

 

[Mainoldo]

Yes, you are right. Board gave Jose 500mil but Jose told them; "No, thank you. Valencia and Young are my boys." And Jose didn't want Perisic or Alderveireld or Willian. Meh, i am finished with you. You just spin your theories.

Why are people just giving up on debates? Lol. If you believe in it back it. Don’t give me some half hearted sarcasm.

If he didn’t want Young and Valencia, he didn’t have to request they signed new deals, just before you try come back with an arguement it’s not his job to offer contracts. He pretty much wrote up Fellaini’s. Did he or did he not want Young and Valencia? Obviously yes.

It’s really not unrealistic to think we have a ‘transfer budget’. Man City turned down Sanchez and Jorginho because they also have a budget so why can’t we turn down Perisic, Willian and Alderweireld for being over priced?

Your excuses are weak. Put me on ignore like the rest of your ‘soft’ Mourinho FC friends on here if you like. I’m kinda starting to enjoy it lol.

 

[Andycoleno9]

Why are people just giving up on debates? Lol. If you believe in it back it. Don’t give me some half hearted sarcasm.

If he didn’t want Young and Valencia, he didn’t have to request they signed new deals, just before you try come back with an arguement it’s not his job to offer contracts. He pretty much wrote up Fellaini’s. Did he or did he not want Young and Valencia? Obviously yes.

It’s really not unrealistic to think we have a ‘transfer budget’. Man City turned down Sanchez and Jorginho because they also have a budget so why can’t we turn down Perisic, Willian and Alderweireld for being over priced?

Your excuses are weak. Put me on ignore like the rest of your ‘soft’ Mourinho FC friends on here if you like. I’m kinda starting to enjoy it lol.

Debate is between two(or more) people who use objective facts or opinions with arguments. You are a wum who is just litellary making shit up so debating with people like you is waste of time. You said that some people have you on ignore. Because you are so good in debating? Yeah right..

 

[Mainoldo]

Debate is between two(or more) people who use objective facts or opinions with arguments. You are a wum who is just litellary making shit up so debating with people like you is waste of time. You said that some people have you on ignore. Because you are so good in debating? Yeah right..

Objective facts? He signed Ashley Young on a longer contract because he knew the board wouldn’t give him enough money to sign a new full back? Clarify if this is your objective fact argument?

 

[GM K]

Well, what Jose did vs Juventus was shameful. His methods of not pressing opponents in their own half against big sides costing us every big game with 30% of the ball when our defense can not be efficient with his reactive tactics. Trying to knick a 1-0 win should not be in our playbook specially at home. Also his selection was not perfect vs Juventus. Fred who can cover more ground and help out where Pogba and Matic struggle in the middle should have played the other day.

Okay, Juventus have got great defenders but we just gave too much respect to them, its not like they don't concede goals from top attacking teams.

Not getting a defender in, he is trying to prove a point to the board by choice of his tactics. Our defense in not that bad that it can turn out from being the second best to absolute shambles we have had this season. Also his over reliance and ignorance of Matic performances is baffling. Matic is the one who needs a hair dryer treatment for his shocking contrast in performances from last season and he keeps on blaming it on defenders when he has done little to protect them.

Lots of insinuations in your post.
Was it really Jose's instructions to them not to press and to show Juventus too much respect? From some of his post match comments, one could deduce he preferred they had approached the game differently from a tactical and attitudinal perspective. I can go on and on but that is besides my point. Jose deserves sticks and he gets them but people also, for whatever reasons, often don't assess our current situation holistically. I am convinced that a major reason we are where we are this season is our failure to do business in the Summer. The reality of the modern game is that top teams have to keep on spending well to win even though spending is not the only thing that wins you trophies.

 

[GM K]

Why should he get any credit? He is finally playing the team that the fans have been begging him to do so since last year. "One of the best in the business" shouldnt have taken that long to realize realise that Martial is better than Sanchez or that Shaw has the potential to play much better.

Easy to say all that from a couch.
Shaw was lazy and Martial was inconsistent. No matter how much we wax lyrical about their performances today, those were the realities most of last season and Martial's handling of his baby's issue in preseason messed things up for him early this season. His agent also never helped matters for a long time with the constant transfer remarks and rumours.

And people can hang Jose now for Sanchez's performances all they want. He deserves it because that is the way modern football is. But the fact is that very few people could have foreseen Sanchez performing so averagely or not turning his form around quickly. We are talking about one of the very best attackers in recent premier league history. When you sign that kind of player, you believe he will transform your team and you will keep giving him a chance yo do so.

 

[R'hllor]

Wait we are talking about 50 games Young as something unclear? Wonder would JM accept if they told him that if he really wanted TA, he should sell Smalling, Jones first, keep Axel and then get new CB. Same goes for FB, sell Valencia, keep TFM as backup and get new RB. Might be wrong but i doubt it.