Yep, they'll go after everyone to defend their god.
The Mourinho Thread: Should he stay or go? | Sacked
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Yep, they'll go after everyone to defend their god.
That is easier said than done when the coaches are from in-congruent schools of thought on how the game should be played.
Mourinho (and Klopp also) would rather develop an attack as quickly as possible, with pace and directness, hoping to get an opportunity before the defence settles in, while LvG, pep and the total football school in general, opt for a 'boa constrictor' approach of dominate possession enough and the opposition will crack eventually. Total football proponents prefer to maintain possession than make a mid probability attempt on goal.
The problem we have is a consequence of following LvG with Mourinho, has most of the players suited to one approach will be unfit in the other.
Mourinho would have had an easier task if he had a more generic squad or if not fully suited to his style, needing less changes to get a squad suitable to playing like he wants or the unlimited amount of money to overhaul in short period (like he did at Chelsea at first stint and Inter).
Mourinho's ideal squad probably consists of
- GK that can kick long with accuracy (like Cech),
- CF that can hold up and link play, preferably dominant in the air
- fast pace and high work rate full backs and wingers
- athletic CBs capable of playing a high line to shorten the field (e.g. Pepe+Ramos)
- destroyer DM that shields his defence
- enough height in team for dead balls
If Mourinho goes, it would be better to establish a philosophy and only hire coaches in-line with it, otherwise we might need another squad overhaul and/or have the inherited squad hinder the new manager
I was not the one coming up with stupid reasons as to why they're playing better football than us despite having a new manager who has not spent much, you and your fellow cultists did. So if we finish below Arsenal will you admit Jose failed or you'll still be blaming the club for not getting him Maguire?
That ignores my main point.
He asked for Willian. Don't sign him as he's old and expensive but suggest alternative for the manager with certain qualities that you want, then go and sign him. What we did was " Willian and Toby are too old and expensive, then let's not sign anyone".
Ed could have went to Mourinho when he put his list very early in summer and tell him we want certain criteria in the players we seek to buy and he should put them in mind while putting his list. Either Mourinho would have modified his list or refuse and leave. Both situations are much better than the clusterfeck that happened.
The problem is we didn't sign Willian or Toby. The problem is we vetoed the signings and refused to sign anyone to keep money in Glazers pocket. That's the problem. We didn't suggest any alternative on manager, we just decided to not spend as "Varane isn't available".
On the other hand, it could be argued that if results were positive, the board be encouraged to keep denying his requests for new players and when result faltered still fire him?
Who knows what Moyes would have achieved with one more season and $400m worth of players though. Some Jose fans are now using LVG's excuse of not 'getting the players he wanted' with the idea that Jose is suffering the same fate, no one wants to justify poor Moyes's excuse that he just needed more time
. I mean since every managers excuse for failure is valid lets be fair about itWe have been in this position multiple tims regarding our briefing in the media in Ed's era, plus I find it weird that you don't want to belive what we heard/read but want to beleive a hypothetical situation you suggested, at least the former has a source.
Also putting in mind that Ed is hardly a football man makes it more accurate that we won't be capable of suggesting good alternatives. His dream was Varane apparently, who was impossible to sign. If that's his targetd then can't see him putting reasonable football suggesions.
No I'm not saying Mourinho is doing a good job, let's not goal post shifting. Sometime I feel I have to put certain sentences in capital to be read but I'll get a warning. Our current struggling in the league, being 8th and away from top 4 is 100% on Mourinho, as we had seen last season we're capable of finishing 2nd or 3rd. However, the team wasn't good enough to compete with City last season and the is still not good enough to compete with them, and the club didn't make any step to close the gap, instead were content with what we did and decided to not spend much. The current struggling away from top 4 is 100% on Mourinho, but our inability to compete or what happened in summer is on Ed.
The team should be in 2nd to 4th now so we're performing far below our standard and that's on manager, but we weren'tand aren't good enough to compete with City and didn't make anything to compete with them after the 19 points gap, that's on board. Other clubs around us like Liverpool looked more interested in closing the gap with City than us.
He was not trying to prove anything, he was just out of ideas. if it had worked he would have heralded himself as some footballing genius.
I can ask this question of a massive amount of the Mourinho fans as well. Many of them have attacked our two best players, Pogba and Martial, a lot of disgusting stuff has been said about them, as well as the weekly criticisms of all our players to defend Mourinho’s training and tactics. Don’t even get me started on the constant blaming of the board and the owners.
If you hate our owners, hate the CEO, hate most of the players, but love the manager, then are you actually a United fan or just a Mourinho fan? And please do not say the manager is the club.
Ironically the only people you'll find attacking our players, the board and the way the club is run are him and the rest of Jose cult
As a member of the apparently now titled Cult of Jose, I wouldn't say I hate any of our players or staff or whatever.
I can't speak for everyone, obviously, but thinking Mourinho is still the right man doesn't immediately mean I think all the players are wrong.
I want Mourinho to stay, I think under him we can win great things and stability is something that is underrated. I also think most of the players should stay, I think some shouldn't have as big a role as they do, and I think in good old United fashion we've held on to some of them for much longer than they've desevred; but we have a lot of good players.
I don't think it's productive to pit one side against another, and make it out that people who like Mourinho hate the players, and people who don't like Mourinho put far too much faith in the players etc.
I can't speak for everyone, obviously, but thinking Mourinho is still the right man doesn't immediately mean I think all the players are wrong.
I want Mourinho to stay, I think under him we can win great things and stability is something that is underrated. I also think most of the players should stay, I think some shouldn't have as big a role as they do, and I think in good old United fashion we've held on to some of them for much longer than they've desevred; but we have a lot of good players.
I don't think it's productive to pit one side against another, and make it out that people who like Mourinho hate the players, and people who don't like Mourinho put far too much faith in the players etc.
How do you still believe that we can win great things under Mourinho? Where do you see the improvement? Which players have improved according to you? Why has it taken Mourinho so long to have a set way of playing when the likes of Sarri, Emery have their teams playing in their way in a short period of time with no real investments?
Because it's Jose Mourinho? He's a great manager.
I think we have definitely improved since he came in, we'd beat Van Gaals United no question.
We've also won two trophies (unfortunate not to have won three) and finished second, our highest league finish since Fergie.
As for players who I think have improved I'd argue that Rashford,Martial,Shaw,Lingard,
Smalling, Herrera, and maybe Young? Have all shown more now under Jose than Van Gaal.
As for it taking a long time for us to have a set style of play under Jose, that's not true, the way we play now isn't massively different to how we played in Joses first season, not to mention he's more adaptable a manager than the likes of Sarri, who has a more noticeable style of play.
Next time you’re in on the meetings within the club give us all a shout and let us know.
Or, more likely, you haven’t got the foggiest clue what goes on during the conversations between Woodward, Mourinho and other senior figures at the club. Somehow I doubt the board said no to Willian and suggested nothing more. Although some people would like to believe that as it (in their mind) absolves Mourinho of blame.
If you believe Tottenham nobody actually bid for Alderwiereld in the summer anyway.
It would be interesting to know if you observe this weird blind, almost cult-like loyalty to underperforming managers in the Bayern fan base too?
We've seen it with Moyes, Van Gaal and Mourinho. Or does this a unique trait in the United fan base?
Good point.
If you think a press briefing is factual that’s fine but there would be way more to it and you will never know want went on.
Best to leave it there as no one wants to see capitals.
Ancelotti certainly did not attract loyalty of that sort, and I can't recall anything like that with van Gaal either. However, in recent history we didn't have a coach with aspirations to the title of 'best in the world' who then would go on to give us disappointing performances and results, so the situation is not completely comparable.
From one of the most special posters in this thread, I’m honored to receive such a commendation from you. I do enjoy your posts in here a lot as well.
Edit: Special mention to your constant defense that Mourinho is a quality manager and doing a good job, but then you also said that Woody hired three dud managers in a row and you don’t trust him to hire the fourth. That was special as well
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The only two clubs where this could possibly have happened is United and Arsenal, because they’re the only two clubs that had managers who essentially were the club. The difference between us is that a lot of the faith in Wenger was gone near the end, so the fans didn’t feel the loyalty to him anymore.
Contrast that to SAF, who left on a high, so most United fans never had to deal with the unwavering loyalty they used to have for the manager being eaten away, which is why it takes so long for our fans to recognize that our manager isn’t doing a good enough job. It happened with all three of the post fergie managers. The cult like devotion to managers we have is a hangover from the great man.
Who knows what Moyes would have achieved with one more season and $400m worth of players though. Some Jose fans are now using LVG's excuse of not 'getting the players he wanted' with the idea that Jose is suffering the same fate, no one wants to justify poor Moyes's excuse that he just needed more time
I hated the Moyes era as much as the next fan. But let’s just imagine for one second that he got financially backed like Mourinho has been and we spent £150-£200 million on Bale, Fabregas and Thiago rather than signing Fellaini and Mata!
Imagine those players feeding RVP and Rooney!
Perhaps the cult of Mourinho should look at the lack of backing Moyes was given before banging on about how £400 million is not enough to get United playing like a football team-let alone winning championships!
You obviously haven't been here for long. It's a normal retort to the the post he quoted given the logic applied therein.
Like who? Sterling is one but I can't think of many others if any.
Cult of Mourinho is a good name. They don't want hear any bad word about him even though he's done an average job at United by his usually high standards. He's been a good manager for Chelsea but not for us. Hopefully they leave with him when he leaves to his next job wherever that may be.
It would be slightly odd to hate everyone at the club but A) you can dislike what's happening with something you love. I can imagine AC Milan fans being pretty livid with all involved with dragging the club to where it is. And B) you'd be fine with people who just liked a few players Martial, DDG and Pogba? What about the hoards of people who adore Mourinho and bemoan everything at the club that he's had to adore?
Heck, what about Mourinho who himself moans about the player, the spending, the lack of football Eritage? I mean why does he even manage the team he clearly hates? Your view seems rathee fragile to me unless you're applying it across the board.
Stones Otamendi, and many more. Most felt our squad was on par with theirs when Pep and Jose took over.
I think Stones and Otamendi weren't laughed at before Pep, we were after Otamendi ourselves when city got him.
But even if they were true, who else if there are many more?
Would love to see some of you put forward your arguments to our fans at an away game. I can only imagine the type of response you'd be met with
Nobody considered Delph, Otamendi, Kompany to be better than United's players, but here they are in an argument of how City's squad was already clearly superior when Mou and Pep took over.
Otamendi was considered a joke, De Bruyne was called overrated and “no one can understand why so much is made of Jose selling him, he hasn’t accomplished anything since he left Chelsea” just to name a couple. There were more, but are the first two that come to mind.
Nobody considered Kompany to be better than our centre backs? Jesus.
Otamendi was mocked after being highly rated. Stones too. Their fullbacks were mocked and Pep replaced them swiftly and we'll. Sterling was thought of as a disappointment and has improved hugely. Their midfield was considered mediocre and Pep turned Silva and KDB into CMs and made them even better.
That's some top quality management. To take perceived weaknesses and turn them into your strengths.
I think there were reports of Rebic or someone as alternative.
But I agree with you. That is Ed's major failing. Vetoing bad targets is only half the job, you need to have a structure in place to recommend alternatives.
I wouldn't argue that pep hasn't done great work at city.
But its revisionism to suggest that the likes of Kompany, De Bruyne, Stones, Silva etc weren't rated before Pep.
Sterling is probably his best example of changing people opinions of him, after the euros people expected sterling to be dumped by Pep but he's been one of his better performers.
As for improving Otamendi and Stones he still felt that the defence needed improving and spent huge money on Laporte in January.
It's definitely a cult of personality at this point. What's bothersome is they just don't slate the Woodward. The slate the board, players (Pogba and Martial have been treated like garbage by these guys), and the fans.
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It’s a fair point about stability, but does Mourinho actually offer that?. Can he be trusted to behave himself, not fall out with players/staff/owners or implode?. He is more about winning at all costs as quickly as possible rather than stability.
I think the stability has to come from the club in terms of a style of play, type of players recruited etc. Have to be fortunate for any manager to last more than 3 years now.
Yeah, Europa league trophy, league cup and finishing second is bad job. And for bolded part; it is so stupid thing to say. So now we, who support our manager, are not real fans of Manchester united? Great logic. Just great.
I'm not even sure it's a cult, I think most of Jose's apologists are just people who think supporting the manager = supporting the club. Just the usual t0p red act.
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