The Mourinho Thread: Should he stay or go? | Sacked

[Siorac]

Neville even mentioned it last week on Sky saying the club hadn't backed him by not sanctioning the swap with Willian.

And thank feck for that. Every time someone says the board didn't back Mourinho, I just feel I'm grateful for that. Despite all his faults, Woodward deserves credit for refusing to sanction that absolutely insane idea.

*if it is true, of course.

 

[tonnas]

Its funny that some people here think that Jose didnt want to swap martial with persic and then Willian. Thank God Ed did the opposite. If Jose stays or not we need a DOF to take decisions and the manager to be the coach and give some ideas but the final say is with the DOF and his team. Jose has this year and next season, if he stays and a Football board is in place we will be much much better, if Jose shuts up. Though I still want him gone asap but things can improve if we have a DOF and Jose accepts it.

 

[Greek9]

And thank feck for that. Every time someone says the board didn't back Mourinho, I just feel I'm grateful for that. Despite all his faults, Woodward deserves credit for refusing to sanction that absolutely insane idea.

*if it is true, of course.

Yes give him credit for ignoring the coach /facepalm, Sure the deal could be the most stupid deal of time but still if it was the coach's wish it should be granted no matter what, otherwise season goes to shit, i can't say we would be 1st had Jose got the players he wanted, but it's pretty stupid of you to say that considering it's one of the main reasons the squad is failing at the moment, if you don't wanna back your coach then dont hire him in the first place, this is all on WOODWARD, so he deserves zero credit.

 

[Siorac]

More avoidance. Good enough, yes or no?

God let me go on record and say how much I hate this sort of debating style. It's pretty much the most infuriating thing you can do in any sort of argument.

"Yes or no?"

"But the question is a bit more complicated than that, there is context... "

"Hahaha you're avoiding the question, yes or no?"

"But it cannot simply be answered like tha..."

"YES OR NO MOTHERfeckER!!!"

This is courtroom-style questioning, as if you are an asshole lawyer who only wants to hear that the defendant wasn't seen at the scene of the crime and does not want the witness to point out that his clothes, his DNA and his favourite Katana, covered in the victim's blood, were all there.

 

[Siorac]

Yes give him credit for ignoring the coach /facepalm, Sure the deal could be the most stupid deal of time but still if it was the coach's wish it should be granted no matter what, otherwise season goes to shit, i can't say we would be 1st had Jose got the players he wanted, but it's pretty stupid of you to say that considering it's one of the main reasons the squad is failing at the moment, if you don't wanna back your coach then dont hire him in the first place, this is all on WOODWARD, so he deserves zero credit.

What? No, it should not. A manager should not expect all his wishes to be granted. That's literally never how it works. This 'back him or sack him' mentality is very English and very much bred out of the Ferguson years but those are not coming back.

There is always a third option with a reasonable coach (not with Mourinho, obviously): that is to work together with people at the club, accept reasonable restrictions and work out a solution. That of course also requires a better footballing structure than what we have at the moment. Something that is exactly set up to prevent the sort of incredible short-sighted short termism as swapping a 22-year-old talent for a decent 30-year-old who was never really anything special.

 

[Mainoldo]

Just Twitter or the first posts of threads on here which posts half quotes then conveniently skip past the posts that dempnsdemons how all the anger posted was based on bollocks.

You're far from alone in that respect but it's a big problem on here.

It’s the micro age isn’t it. I like journo podcast to be fair when it’s transfer season. But I’ve muppetted down a lot recently. Probably because we actually spend money now, it’s less intense lol.

 

[SteveW]

Yes give him credit for ignoring the coach /facepalm, Sure the deal could be the most stupid deal of time but still if it was the coach's wish it should be granted no matter what, otherwise season goes to shit, i can't say we would be 1st had Jose got the players he wanted, but it's pretty stupid of you to say that considering it's one of the main reasons the squad is failing at the moment, if you don't wanna back your coach then dont hire him in the first place, this is all on WOODWARD, so he deserves zero credit.

I disagree strongly. This is an outdated model that is hardly used anywhere in football anymore. No manager has complete free reign.

If the manager has lost the plot and wants to do something stupid it is the boards responsibility to intervene. That's the whole point of having a board, to handle the big decisions for the good of the club.

In reality he's been backed with huge amounts of cash and he's making a mess of it.

 

[Vadim]

Jose deserves credit for dropping the WWE wrestler but he still needs to go. It’s papering over cracks.

We still don’t control games. Everton are a tumescent side and we scraped it 2-1.

He needs to go at some point and I think he will come January.

 

[Reddy Rederson]

I don’t read newspapers. Try abit harder next time.

Did you use the force?

 

[Reddy Rederson]

This is stupid. You know things happen that the club won't confirm publicly. If you've no interest that's your deal. You can wait for the club website to tell you what they want you to believe.

Others who are interested in the club will take heed of the huge amount of information available. Manager quotes, player agent quotes, journalists, team selections, former players etc. Some things the papers say are true, others are obvious nonsense. If you aren't braindead you can actually get a decent idea of the difference. Mourinho himself has given us several direct insights into his relationship with Martial for instance. Those with the ability to take these on board will be better placed to judge these stories.

Those who lack that capacity will be better off not reading anything because you can't tell the difference and end up saying "it's those newspapers lied to me again innit" If that's your situation so be it. But stop this nonsense about "facts" and verified sources etc.

Thats the problem, you dont know. You think, you believe, you imagine, but you dont know. Opinions are not facts. You believe something to be true, thats fine. But some people are acting like their opinions are untouchable facts, which they quite obviously not.

If united were the hyperbolic shambles that the press in all their various forms say we are, we'd bottom of the NFL at the moment.

 

[Mainoldo]

Did you use the force?

To not read newspapers? Unfortunately no I didn’t. Yoda passed before he could show me that trick.

 

[Reddy Rederson]

God let me go on record and say how much I hate this sort of debating style. It's pretty much the most infuriating thing you can do in any sort of argument.

"Yes or no?"

"But the question is a bit more complicated than that, there is context... "

"Hahaha you're avoiding the question, yes or no?"

"But it cannot simply be answered like tha..."

"YES OR NO MOTHERfeckER!!!"

This is courtroom-style questioning, as if you are an asshole lawyer who only wants to hear that the defendant wasn't seen at the scene of the crime and does not want the witness to point out that his clothes, his DNA and his favourite Katana, covered in the victim's blood, were all there.

The original question: Do you agree that Jose is right to look for replacements for Jones, Smalling and Rojo, or are they good enough? Its a yes or a no. You agree with Jose or you dont. Theres no middle ground of other context to consider. You agree with him or you dont. They are good enough and dont need to be replaced, or they arnet and do need to be replaced. Anything else doesnt matter.

 

[SteveW]

Thats the problem, you dont know. You think, you believe, you imagine, but you dont know. Opinions are not facts. You believe something to be true, thats fine. But some people are acting like their opinions are untouchable facts, which they quite obviously not.

If united were the hyperbolic shambles that the press in all their various forms say we are, we'd bottom of the NFL at the moment.

I get it now

 

[Reddy Rederson]

To not read newspapers? Unfortunately no I didn’t. Yoda passed before he could show me that trick.

Well if you didnt read and didnt use the force, how did you get your unapproachable facts? Im on the edge of my seat, truly.

 

[Buster15]

So it was morning's fault that pogba was lackadaisical with the ball and that smalling lunged into a bad challenge?

I am afraid that whatever happens with United, whether it is on or off the pitch, lots of people here only see one person to blame and nothing is going to change their minds.

As you say both were fundamental errors of judgment and we are simply making far too many of them.

 

[Reddy Rederson]

I get it now

I doubt it judging by that response.

 

[Mainoldo]

Well if you didnt read and didnt use the force, how did you get your unapproachable facts? Im on the edge of my seat, truly.

Have you ever used Spotify? It’s mad.. you can listen to music without having to go to HMV to buy it.

 

[redIndianDevil]

We did try for any of those players. Woodward said no remember? Youre bias is showing big time.



As I said, bias is showing.

Woodward said no for Maguire and Alderweireld I think, Boateng came out and said he called Mourinho to tell that he won't be joining us, we probably would have bought Godin if Godin wanted to join us(turns out he didn't and his agent just wanted to get a better deal from Atletico).

 

[Reddy Rederson]

Have you ever used Spotify? It’s mad.. you can listen to music without having to go to HMV to buy it.

So spotify told you that jose tried to get rid of martial? Its all becoming so clear now.

 

[Cloud7]

Woodward said no for Maguire and Alderweireld I think, Boateng came out and said he called Mourinho to tell that he won't be joining us, we probably would have bought Godin if Godin wanted to join us(turns out he didn't and his agent just wanted to get a better deal from Atletico).

Good job he saved us from our own stupidity. That would have been a car crash of a signing.

 

[Reddy Rederson]

Woodward said no for Maguire and Alderweireld I think, Boateng came out and said he called Mourinho to tell that he won't be joining us, we probably would have bought Godin if Godin wanted to join us(turns out he didn't and his agent just wanted to get a better deal from Atletico).

Woodward said no(full stop). He refused to back the man he just gave a new contract to, which I think we can all agree is stupid as feck, no?

 

[Mainoldo]

So spotify told you that jose tried to get rid of martial? Its all becoming so clear now.

Yeah if that’s what you got from what I said. Probably why you don’t take in information. You probably still chop wood to generate heat in your house or maybe you’ve figured out how to use the force.

 

[Siorac]

The original question: Do you agree that Jose is right to look for replacements for Jones, Smalling and Rojo, or are they good enough? Its a yes or a no. You agree with Jose or you dont. Theres no middle ground of other context to consider. You agree with him or you dont. They are good enough and dont need to be replaced, or they arnet and do need to be replaced. Anything else doesnt matter.

No, it's not that simple.

Good enough for what? Squad players? First choice? Good enough to lead the defence or do the mopping up next to an experienced head? Do we want to replace them with first-choice defenders or are Bailly and Lindelöf earmarked for that role?

(as an aside, I don't really understand why Smalling is always mentioned in these discussions. He plays more than any of our CBs; if anything, it looks like Mourinho would sooner replace Bailly.)

 

[Reddy Rederson]

Yeah if that’s what you got from what I said. Probably why you don’t take in information. You probably still chop wood to generate heat in your house or maybe you’ve figured out how to use the force.

Oh well, resorting to insults. I guess thats the limit of your belief in your argument. Im just gonna pop you on ignore now, as thats type of thing can only go to bad places. You take care, and try not to believe everything spotify tells you.

 

[Siorac]

Woodward said no(full stop). He refused to back the man he just gave a new contract to, which I think we can all agree is stupid as feck, no?

Giving him a new contract was certainly stupid.

Saying no to him... depends on why. Did he try for Alderweireld, only to be told Spurs want 60m or something? Because if so, it's well within his rights to say we won't spend that much on a 29-year-old CB when we already have 5 CBs in the squad. If he didn't even try because he decided he didn't fancy him, well, that's a different matter.

 

[Reddy Rederson]

No, it's not that simple.

Good enough for what? Squad players? First choice? Good enough to lead the defence or do the mopping up next to an experienced head? Do we want to replace them with first-choice defenders or are Bailly and Lindelöf earmarked for that role?

(as an aside, I don't really understand why Smalling is always mentioned in these discussions. He plays more than any of our CBs; if anything, it looks like Mourinho would sooner replace Bailly.)

No it is that simple, youre adding questions to avoid the answer. You have your question, why not just answer it? If you want to present youe own follow up question Ill gladly give you my opinion if you wish it.

 

[Siorac]

No it is that simple, youre adding questions to avoid the answer. You have your question, why not just answer it? If you want to present youe own follow up question Ill gladly give you my opinion if you wish it.

See, you're doing it again! You cannot simply ask a question "are they good enough" without providing context that I asked for. It's impossible to answer.

Was O'Shea good enough? Certainly wouldn't have been good enough as a starter in CM or CB but did OK as a backup on occasion. Style of play matters, too! Was Ibrahimovic not good enough for Barcelona? Or he just didn't fit?

To frame it as a yes or no question that does not need more context I would say something like this: "are Smalling, Rojo and Jones incapable of contributing to Manchester United in any way?" - that is a better question because if the answer is yes, it means they cannot be starters, or good squad players, or tea ladies so we need to get rid of them.

 

[Reddy Rederson]

Giving him a new contract was certainly stupid.

Saying no to him... depends on why. Did he try for Alderweireld, only to be told Spurs want 60m or something? Because if so, it's well within his rights to say we won't spend that much on a 29-year-old CB when we already have 5 CBs in the squad. If he didn't even try because he decided he didn't fancy him, well, that's a different matter.

Sorry, no. He gave him a new contract which means he had faith in him. Now it looks like hes micro managing which is stupid. Because of you dont trust the man, why give him a new contract? He still had another year at least anyway. IF he wasnt sure, then he should have waited and not backing him wouldnt have been such an issue. Now Jose has a shiny new contract and woody cant fire him without giving some stupidly large pay out.

We have 5 CBs, thats true. How many are good enough? Forget Jose, how many are good enough regardless of who the manager is? Jones has heart, but his decision making is atrocious. Thats been clear under three managers at least. Smalling his hit or miss. He seemed to hit a new level under lvg, but then regressed to hit and miss. That tackle that gave away then pen being the latest example. Rojo... I dont even remember rojo its been so long. But the general feeling Ive seen from around the caf is that these three need to be moved on so its not a huge leap to imagine that jose feels the same. And so wants to get new CBs in before getting rid of the old ones. Makes sense to me if thats the case.

As for the age of a player, Im not one to buy into the idea that someone is done because they are 29.

Money could be a reason and it would be a good one considering the price united pays always seems to be higher than anyone else. But, I think if we want to push on to challenge on all fronts, we'll need to spend. As far as Im aware though. woody didnt give that as his reason. I believe he said something along the lines of what you said about not buying more CBs when we have 5. I might be wrong on that, but I think thats what he said.

 

[Reddy Rederson]

See, you're doing it again! You cannot simply ask a question "are they good enough" without providing context that I asked for. It's impossible to answer.

Was O'Shea good enough? Certainly wouldn't have been good enough as a starter in CM or CB but did OK as a backup on occasion. Style of play matters, too! Was Ibrahimovic not good enough for Barcelona? Or he just didn't fit?

To frame it as a yes or no question that does not need more context I would say something like this: "are Smalling, Rojo and Jones incapable of contributing to Manchester United in any way?" - that is a better question because if the answer is yes, it means they cannot be starters, or good squad players, or tea ladies so we need to get rid of them.

Youre ignoring part of the question. Do you agree with Jose? Im told you what the original question was. The answer is yes or no. Theres no context to be had in agreeing or disagreeing with jose. If hes trying to replace them, you agree or you dont. That other stuff youre talking about is the reasons why you would agree or disagree.

 

[Robbie Boy]

Yeah beating a dour Everton side 2-1 at home changes nothing, obviously. Had we looked competent against Juve at home and gotten a positive result, it may have given me a glimmer of hope. Yesterday’s result and performance certainly doesn’t.

 

[Siorac]

Youre ignoring part of the question. Do you agree with Jose? Im told you what the original question was. The answer is yes or no. Theres no context to be had in agreeing or disagreeing with jose. If hes trying to replace them, you agree or you dont. That other stuff youre talking about is the reasons why you would agree or disagree.

I think there are higher priorities than CB in our squad but we will need better CBs eventually. Once we have a manager who can get us to compete for the major trophies.

 

[Reddy Rederson]

I think there are higher priorities than CB in our squad but we will need better CBs eventually. Once we have a manager who can get us to compete for the major trophies.

That leads us to a whole new problem though, who is available? And can we trust Woodward to not make the same mistake for 4th time? My opinion is that woody should not be making any more decisions in the regard. Sack him, move him to another position but just no more of him failing at being the pretender to gills role. IMO, getting that DOF in that was talked about should be job one. Jose can wait, getting everything set up and ready to take over when he does leave is far more important, IMO.

 

[WensleyMU]

I think there are higher priorities than CB in our squad but we will need better CBs eventually. Once we have a manager who can get us to compete for the major trophies.

I think we do need to address CB as a priority because. Followed by the right eing. After that, everywhere is relatively well covered. Lukaku is well out of form right bow but we saw yesterday that we have a threat in Martial, Rashford is there too, although again, out of form and I agree with calls for Sanchez to play up top, or as a second sticker.

Midfield is well stocked, wing backs will need addressing to replace Young and Valencia eventually.

While we have 5 CB, two are crocks. Another one in and Jones and Rojo out would be a sensible move.

 

[Greck]

Neville even mentioned it last week on Sky saying the club hadn't backed him by not sanctioning the swap with Willian.

Neville isn't his biggest fan and I can't stand how he speaks like official voice of the fans

 

[SteveW]

Neville isn't his biggest fan and I can't stand how he speaks like official voice of the fans

Agreed.

 

[VP89]

Yeah beating a dour Everton side 2-1 at home changes nothing, obviously. Had we looked competent against Juve at home and gotten a positive result, it may have given me a glimmer of hope. Yesterday’s result and performance certainly doesn’t.

How are Everton dour? They just came back off 3 wins on the trot.

 

[sunama]

Jose deserves credit for dropping the WWE wrestler but he still needs to go. It’s papering over cracks.

We still don’t control games. Everton are a tumescent side and we scraped it 2-1.

He needs to go at some point and I think he will come January.

You make the point of Everton being crap. I assure you, Everton are a decent side and not as bad as you are making out.
Against Juve, who are arguably favourites to the CL, we lost 1-0 and not the huge margin which many people expected. Jose simply wanted to keep the damage to a minimum in that game as he is positioning us to be in 2nd place in our group. Everything is going according to plan.
Before that we played CFC, who many believe are the best team in the league - they got very lucky to get a draw against us. Not many, if any team (who has played them this season) can say that.
Before that it was Newcastle. We played badly in the first half, but made amends in the 2nd half, scoring 3 goals and conceding nothing. I loved that match and not many teams in the league could make a comeback like we did.

I understand that you don't like Jose. I get that. But give credit where credit is due.

This idea that if Jose leaves, everything will be sunshine and roses and that we shall waltz to the league title, is false.
Until we have a credible candidate to replace him, there is no point in him leaving. I beleive ZZ has already said that he won't manage this season and Poch (who a lot of people like), will be staying at Spurs this season.
And for those who say that Carrick should take over for the rest of the season - that'll be an unmitigated disaster. Giving one of the biggest jobs in football to a complete noob, who was a player last season, would be irresponsible.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

Will likely end the night 4 points behind Spurs or 6 behind City, with Arsenal and Liverpool to play each other next week. Huge shame we conceded that late goal at the bridge.

 

[Random Task]

You make the point of Everton being crap. I assure you, Everton are a decent side and not as bad as you are making out.
Against Juve, who are arguably favourites to the CL, we lost 1-0 and not the huge margin which many people expected. Jose simply wanted to keep the damage to a minimum in that game as he is positioning us to be in 2nd place in our group. Everything is going according to plan.
Before that we played CFC, who many believe are the best team in the league - they got very lucky to get a draw against us. Not many, if any team (who has played them this season) can say that.
Before that it was Newcastle. We played badly in the first half, but made amends in the 2nd half, scoring 3 goals and conceding nothing. I loved that match and not many teams in the league could make a comeback like we did.

I understand that you don't like Jose. I get that. But give credit where credit is due.

This idea that if Jose leaves, everything will be sunshine and roses and that we shall waltz to the league title, is false.
Until we have a credible candidate to replace him, there is no point in him leaving. I believe ZZ has already said that he won't manage this season and Poch (who a lot of people like), will be staying at Spurs this season.
And for those who say that Carrick should take over for the rest of the season - that'll be an unmitigated disaster. Giving one of the biggest jobs in football to a complete noob, who was a player last season, would be irresponsible.

I don't think anyone believes that, nor should they. Most of us simply want a manager in charge who will respect the club and display a reasonably attacking brand of football. Jose offers neither of these things.

Most would be willing to accept his bizarre behaviour if the team were getting positive results on the pitch, but they aren't. We're loitering around midtable with very little sign of progress.

 

[the chameleon]

You make the point of Everton being crap. I assure you, Everton are a decent side and not as bad as you are making out.
Against Juve, who are arguably favourites to the CL, we lost 1-0 and not the huge margin which many people expected. Jose simply wanted to keep the damage to a minimum in that game as he is positioning us to be in 2nd place in our group. Everything is going according to plan.
Before that we played CFC, who many believe are the best team in the league - they got very lucky to get a draw against us. Not many, if any team (who has played them this season) can say that.
Before that it was Newcastle. We played badly in the first half, but made amends in the 2nd half, scoring 3 goals and conceding nothing. I loved that match and not many teams in the league could make a comeback like we did.

I understand that you don't like Jose. I get that. But give credit where credit is due.

This idea that if Jose leaves, everything will be sunshine and roses and that we shall waltz to the league title, is false.
Until we have a credible candidate to replace him, there is no point in him leaving. I beleive ZZ has already said that he won't manage this season and Poch (who a lot of people like), will be staying at Spurs this season.
And for those who say that Carrick should take over for the rest of the season - that'll be an unmitigated disaster. Giving one of the biggest jobs in football to a complete noob, who was a player last season, would be irresponsible.

I love your relentless optimism. But everything can be looked at from a positive angle. The scousers have been looking at things positively for the last 27 years. Their pundits are always biased and hardly critique them. Even when they underperform. That's why it's taken them this long to win another title. You look at Madrid, Barcelona and Munich - imagine they would have reacted to Jose squandering all that money without delivering a title?

He did far better at Madrid, but was still hounded out.

Also, there are already is a candidate that would be able to replace - Jardim.

Also, with the amount of quality young players we have, do you feel comfortable with Jose being in charge of their futures?

A manager that can coach players to improve is what we need. This is what Klopp has done at Liverpool. He's bought new players but also coached less capable players to become well-rounded cogs in a well functioning machine which delivers results.

Tell me one place Mourinho has done this ?