The Mourinho Thread: Should he stay or go? | Sacked

Is Mourinho’s time as United manager up?

  • Yes

    Votes: 2,296 77.1%

  • No

    Votes: 293 9.8%

  • Not yet - needs more time to see if he can turn it around

    Votes: 388 13.0%
  • Total voters
    2,977
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trafford1980 said:
No, I personally don't think the Newcastle win will spark any sort of solid form, but since we did manage to pick up the win then I'm content for us to wait until there's an emphatic nail in his coffin rather than get rid of him after a rare come-from-behind victory and have dissenters in the forms of both fans and ex-players continuously complain about how unjust his sacking was.

Let him punch himself out of the club. Lose to Chelsea, lose to Juve then fire him before the Everton match. Or if he scrapes a draw or win from these matches then fire him if we lose against City and Juve in the return leg.

I agree with you but at the same time let him have his stay of execution.

My real worry is that Mourinho has somehow hoodwinked the board and his supporters into thinking that a couple of victories against Bournemouth & Everton and perhaps a draw or two in four matches against City, Chelsea and Juventus is above par and acceptable. It's not, and it never should be.
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Standards have lowered. He'll be given time till we're in the top 4 'race' IMO. As much as people do want him out there's always a feeling of obligation amongst United fans and ex players that managers should get plenty of time till they depress anyone that sets their eyes in their direction. So that's what'll happen.
 
el3mel said:
For our defensive issues case, no it's not. Our defense has been crap even before Fergie retired. I think the issue started from his last 2 seasons, and since than and till now probably only Mourinho first season you can say the defense has been solid, otherwise it was always De Gea saving our arses. There's a reason why he won 4 of last 5 POTY awards. In LVG both seasons it was still as disastrous as it's now.
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Our defence has been good for a long time now. LVG hugely improved our defence when he came. Have people forgotten how immense Smalling and Blind were under him? Blind make Lukaku look like a nothing footballer, and Smalling kept Kane in his pocket recently. Jones has had some very good runs as a United CB. It's nice to pretend they're all shit so that Jose looks good (although he doesn't given he's signed two who seem worse than these chaps) but it isn't the case. What you could argue is that our defence wasn't as good as the record suggested because of DDG. There's some truth to that for sure. But DDG is part of the defence after all as is someone like Matic who is as good a protector as most teams have. Bur either way, its not "shit". It's "shit" only under Mourinho's "shit" management this season.

Could it do with improvement ? Indeed. Is it a bad defence? No fecking chance. Top 4 twice, 2nd last year and winning the FA cup and EL in recent years didn't happen with a terrible defence. It's the narrative Mourinho wants to put forth to big up his (and apparently LVGs) achievements as something spectacular. But it isn't factually honest.
 
amolbhatia50k said:
Our defence has been good for a long time now. LVG hugely improved our defence when he came. Have people forgotten how immense Smalling and Blind were under him? Blind make Lukaku look like a nothing footballer, and Smalling kept Kane in his pocket recently. Jones has had some very good runs as a United CB. It's nice to pretend they're all shit so that Jose looks good (although he doesn't given he's signed two who seem worse than these chaps) but it isn't the case. What you could argue is that our defence wasn't as good as the record suggested because of DDG. There's some truth to that for sure. But DDG is part of the defence after all as is someone like Matic who is as good a protector as most teams have. Bur either way, its not "shit". It's "shit" only under Mourinho's "shit" management this season.

Could it do with improvement ? Indeed. Is it a bad defence? No fecking chance. Top 4 twice, 2nd last year and winning the FA cup and EL in recent years didn't happen with a terrible defence. It's the narrative Mourinho wants to put forth to big up his (and apparently LVGs) achievements as something spectacular. But it isn't factually honest.
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I'd disagree with most of that. Van Gaals tactics were basically for Rooney and Carrick to pass the ball back and forth to each other for most of the game meaning no chances conceded or created from either side which made Smalling and Blind look like Vidic and Rio based on stats and nothing else.

Smalling did put in some nice performances but a lot of that was down to his job being super easy with the way the neanderthal tactics were set up.
 
Champagne Football said:
I'd disagree with most of that. Van Gaals tactics were basically for Rooney and Carrick to pass the ball back and forth to each other for most of the game meaning no chances conceded or created from either side which made Smalling and Blind look like Vidic and Rio based on stats and nothing else.

Smalling did put in some nice performances but a lot of that was down to his job being super easy with the way the neanderthal tactics were set up.
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I'm seeing contrary reasons for similar views now. The other posters claims our defence was always terrible but mostly reduced by De Gea's brilliance. You're claiming they were barely tested due to the managers tactics. Naturally, it cannot be both. Personally I think we're looking for reasons to discredit a defence that has performed well. I could easily claims City's defence is great because they spend all game battering teams, Liverpool's is great because they press brutally well, and Spurs defence is ace because they tend to have two great fullbacks or even better, two good wingbacks to help a three (not just two) man defence. Arsenal have darn Mustafi and Holding at the back which sounds shocking but their manager isn't letting you notice. Barca at their peak were only good defensively due to Messi, Ineista and Xavi. And so on.

Personally I think we have/had one of the best colelction of CBs in the league (ability wise) with two glaring flaws A) No one defender of real top quality like VVD appears to be (but you couldn't say this about City either?) and B) No one ball playing defender not counting Mourinho awful purchase in this area.

So it's a good defence IMO which the stats have consistently shown, aided by the GK but good nonetheless. It needs improvement for sure. But I don't believe it's as terrible as made out to be by posters here and the manager - until this season where the team is falling apart.
 
WensleyMU said:
This season, we've fallen apart when we've gone behind, even when we have conceded. We have shown no fight at all. Take Spurs, we weren't playing badly but as soon as they scored, that was it.

So it was great to see. I hope we can now use it to kick start the season. With Chelsea next it doesn't get much tougher but we are better placed because of 45 minutes against Newcastle, than we were at 5:40pm on Saturday evening.
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No idea why you would hope for that. Not saying that we all wouldn't welcome it or that we shouldn't hope for great things, but it's just hopeless at this point. This entire season has made it extremely obvious this is Jose's last season with United. Getting our season back on track means a top 4 finish and a top 4 finish is not acceptable for Mourinho when the standards for any Mourinho team pre-United was challenging for the biggest titles.

Like it's been stated in the past, if Mourinho doesn't get you challenging for the biggest titles, what is the benefit of having him? Fan bases tolerate boring football if he brings you titles. When that doesn't come, you're really paying him for a top 4 finish, boring football, and drama. That's something (the latter 2) we all accepted when he initially came.
 
In Rainbows said:
No idea why you would hope for that. Not saying that we all wouldn't welcome it or that we shouldn't hope for great things, but it's just hopeless at this point. This entire season has made it extremely obvious this is Jose's last season with United. Getting our season back on track means a top 4 finish and a top 4 finish is not acceptable for Mourinho when the standards for any Mourinho team pre-United was challenging for the biggest titles.

Like it's been stated in the past, if Mourinho doesn't get you challenging for the biggest titles, what is the benefit of having him? Fan bases tolerate boring football if he brings you titles. When that doesn't come, you're really paying him for a top 4 finish, boring football, and drama. That's something (the latter 2) we all accepted when he initially came.
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If he was getting results and trophies using deathly dull football, I think most United fans would just see it as a "necessary evil", probably a few would still complain and say it wasn't the United way - I'd go along with it any day rather than see United looking like also rans with no signs of progress or change for the better.
Producing awful football with nothing to show for it, buying top class players then watching them flounder and looking some way off the top of the EPL isn't good enough.
 
The club is doing what any self respecting business would do. Making plans in case the manager fails. Mourinho should have no qualms.
In any case, a DoF is needed urgently. This shit is taking too long .
 
shaky said:
really? The Sun articles?
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Choose to read it if you want, choose not to read it if you don't want. Custis was right about Mou falling out with Pogba, Jose never denied Zidane called him he just said ask Neil, and in his post-match presser Jose said he won't say what his half time teamtalk was cos the media can make some calls and get the info easy enough.

I'd suggest Custis has a source. Will the source have an agenda? Yes. Will the source be putting the interpretation on events it wants? Yes. Will the source therefore be biased and unlikely to be 100% true. Yes. However, that doesn't mean its all lies.
 
The Sun article is probably right. Nothing outrageous about it to say it's not. Hopefully Ed doesn't pull out what he did with LVG and tell him the truth about his future here.
 
Adisa said:
The club is doing what any self respecting business would do. Making plans in case the manager fails. Mourinho should have no qualms.
In any case, a DoF is needed urgently. This shit is taking too long .
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Do you honestly believe if we magically have the best dof in the world tomorrow our football or our players will suddenly change overnight?

Unless that dof has the magic crystal ball and knows who's the next fergie he'll probably hire a young unproven coach with no guarantee of success. And unless he has a crystal ball on who's the next unearthed messi and ronaldo i doubt we'd be signing potential ability -9 wonderkids.

Let's say he indeed knows that some 18 yo players in south america is the next messi, would the manager trust him enough to play him? Would ed wants to splash 50m for his judgment? Would the fans trust his vision?

And if the dof created a grand 10 years plan, he still need to find the materials for it to materialise. Any one of us here can formulate a 10 year plan, hire the next saf, focus in youth, employ attacking manager, stay classy, doing it is another matter.

Edit : if our dof tells us to sack mourinho, sell half of our squad, hire pochetinno and give him 500m warchest, do you honestly think ed or the glazers won't veto it? Does having a dof means teams will be lining up to sign the likes of young or valencia? Does having a dof means young would gladly move to burnley for 50k per week?
 
Sky1981 said:
Do you honestly believe if we magically have the best dof in the world tomorrow our football or our players will suddenly change overnight?

Unless that dof has the magic crystal ball and knows who's the next fergie he'll probably hire a young unproven coach with no guarantee of success. And unless he has a crystal ball on who's the next unearthed messi and ronaldo i doubt we'd be signing potential ability -9 wonderkids.

Let's say he indeed knows that some 18 yo players in south america is the next messi, would the manager trust him enough to play him? Would ed wants to splash 50m for his judgment? Would the fans trust his vision?

And if the dof created a grand 10 years plan, he still need to find the materials for it to materialise. Any one of us here can formulate a 10 year plan, hire the next saf, focus in youth, employ attacking manager, stay classy, doing it is another matter.

Edit : if our dof tells us to sack mourinho, sell half of our squad, hire pochetinno and give him 500m warchest, do you honestly think ed or the glazers won't veto it? Does having a dof means teams will be lining up to sign the likes of young or valencia? Does having a dof means young would gladly move to burnley for 50k per week?
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Don't understand what you're trying to say. This club needs a DOF and needs to know what direction it wants to go before hiring a new manager. Don't see how anyone can argue with that.
 
A fan, wanting Jose out: "Enough of Mourinho's toxic bullshit!"

The same fan five minutes later: "The pro-Jose Cult Brigade is out in force yet again, papering over the cracks, sabotaging our club with purpose, with cold hearts, so ruthless. Come back when Jose's gone, you losers. I'd like to see who voted for any other option than "Jose out!" so I could put them on my list. You clearly don't know shit about football, cnuts. Hope Jose gets banned for life. Drain the swamp of these Top Red wankers. Wish we lose our next matches, it's better for the future. Oh look at these clowns, the poll has shifted 0,38% to Jose's side, you don't know what you're talking about you piece of shit"
 
klsv said:
A fan, wanting Jose out: "Enough of Mourinho's toxic bullshit!"

The same fan five minutes later: "The pro-Jose Cult Brigade is out in force yet again, papering over the cracks, sabotaging our club with purpose, with cold hearts, so ruthless. Come back when Jose's gone, you losers. I'd like to see who voted for any other option than "Jose out!" so I could put them on my list. You clearly don't know shit about football, cnuts. Hope Jose gets banned for life. Drain the swamp of these Top Red wankers. Wish we lose our next matches, it's better for the future. Oh look at these clowns, the poll has shifted 0,38% to Jose's side, you don't know what you're talking about you piece of shit"
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They sure amplify the toxicity by their bitching non stop since day 1.
 
I actually think the people who wanted Jose out from day one are remarkably quiet when you think it's basically gone exactly like they said it would. I think it's people like myself who wanted Jose who are making the most noise now.
 
Judas said:
I actually think the people who wanted Jose out from day one are remarkably quiet when you think it's basically gone exactly like they said it would. I think it's people like myself who wanted Jose who are making the most noise now.
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True I don't see @Wumminator posting much x
 
FootyGirl88 said:
One of my picks ❤❤

What are your thoughts? @Aloysius's Back 3
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Thanks for the vid!

I haven't watched Monaco recently but the thing that excites me the most during his best season is how he got Monaco playing with an identity.

Thats what I want the most at the club - a game plan that causes teams to have to adapt their tactics to us rather than the other way around.

Has Jardim has adapted his tactics season to season or has he continued with the 2-4-4 set up? I look at that formation & the players he uses & think he could get the best out of players like Martial, Shaw, Dalpt & Rashford - something I want more than going down getting the best out of Lukaku, Matic & felliani.

How ever I think he will have to adapt his tactics a bit to the PL - something I don't know if he can do or not.

Players like mbappe to me shows he can use martial & Rashford better than they are being used now

Player like Falcao playing predatory football shows he can use Lukaku probably better.

Players like mendy & their RB shows me that he could use our fullbacks

Players like fabinho shows me he can use players like TFM. Players like how he got bakyokio playing shows me he can get the best use out of pogba.

Players like Lemar & bernando silva shows me he could possibly get better use out of Mata, Sanchez & maybe even pereira & chong in the short term.

Everything looks good & his use of young players gives me hope that he can build something here the United way.

Though again - he needs to be open to adapting his tactics to the league, the players - I hope he can do that. The only reason I may be a bit more excited about someone like naglesmann is because the guy has adapted his tactics towards his players whilst also ending up a formation I think that suits our squad down to a tee - Jardim is not far off though.
 
amolbhatia50k said:
Our defence has been good for a long time now. LVG hugely improved our defence when he came. Have people forgotten how immense Smalling and Blind were under him? Blind make Lukaku look like a nothing footballer, and Smalling kept Kane in his pocket recently. Jones has had some very good runs as a United CB. It's nice to pretend they're all shit so that Jose looks good (although he doesn't given he's signed two who seem worse than these chaps) but it isn't the case. What you could argue is that our defence wasn't as good as the record suggested because of DDG. There's some truth to that for sure. But DDG is part of the defence after all as is someone like Matic who is as good a protector as most teams have. Bur either way, its not "shit". It's "shit" only under Mourinho's "shit" management this season.

Could it do with improvement ? Indeed. Is it a bad defence? No fecking chance. Top 4 twice, 2nd last year and winning the FA cup and EL in recent years didn't happen with a terrible defence. It's the narrative Mourinho wants to put forth to big up his (and apparently LVGs) achievements as something spectacular. But it isn't factually honest.
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Our defense is not good, Blind and Smalling benefited from the whole team defending with LVG. In order to do that, even the striker had to come down and compact the 2 lines of the team to try to retrieve the ball back and avoid any gap.

Jose decided to do something similar and basically cover for the defense with his midfield or wingers. He only had 2 players allowed to be “free” even in defensive mode and it’s Lukaku and maybe Sanchez. Then we needed to attack, or people say we needed to attack. Ultimately that means the team cannot defend in the same way because the focus is more on offensive phases and in this case, your defenders need to be stronger.

Jose tried Blind btw, he liked his intelligence and passing skills but it didn’t work out. Some seem to forget football at high level can go South very quickly due to a single detail sometimes. Right now the mood is negative so it’s amplified by everything. But please look at what the team is trying to do this season and basically not delivering. Even on offensive phases, the team tries to play one touch with quick relay with the front players... but we either miss the passes or it doesn’t work out or we can’t score. What can we really do about that? Really?
 
Sky1981 said:
Even if we find a good dof it'll take a good 2 - 3 years to have any pulse on his impact. Probably more.
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We don’t need to become CL winners overnight, we just need to see some indication of progression, with more entertaining football being played. We need a foundation upon which we can improve.
 
Gasolin said:
Our defense is not good, Blind and Smalling benefited from the whole team defending with LVG. In order to do that, even the striker had to come down and compact the 2 lines of the team to try to retrieve the ball back and avoid any gap.

Jose decided to do something similar and basically cover for the defense with his midfield or wingers. He only had 2 players allowed to be “free” even in defensive mode and it’s Lukaku and maybe Sanchez. Then we needed to attack, or people say we needed to attack. Ultimately that means the team cannot defend in the same way because the focus is more on offensive phases and in this case, your defenders need to be stronger.

Jose tried Blind btw, he liked his intelligence and passing skills but it didn’t work out. Some seem to forget football at high level can go South very quickly due to a single detail sometimes. Right now the mood is negative so it’s amplified by everything. But please look at what the team is trying to do this season and basically not delivering. Even on offensive phases, the team tries to play one touch with quick relay with the front players... but we either miss the passes or it doesn’t work out or we can’t score. What can we really do about that? Really?
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Jose tried Blind against City & blamed him for Bailly mistakes that the latter makes every damn match now.

Blind also is bought in to our Europa league final & is arguably our defensive man of the match.

People act like Blind made a mistake a match - when I'd hardly see a damn thing. They just associated the lad with LVG & his poor transfers & didn't blink an eye lid when he was gone.

The fact is - LVG at least partially improved our defence & that's not even worth talking about due to the football we see now. Whether that's due to LVG's football or now is irrelevant - we could be a more possession based team under Jose but instead he is reliant on his Chelsea tactics to create a counter attacking team that invites the pressure. Even then - Blind could handle pressure better than anyone in the team.

Tpwards the end of LVG's season he also managed to sort out a decent attack in terms of players he found & was arguably a pre-season away from getting martial & Rashford to link up front & play in a system that got the ball to feet rather than over the top.

Where are they now? Off wide. Point is that Jose has taken some things that have worked, has the potential to work & completely rolled it under the bus never to be seen again.

United would be a better team now this season if Smalling & Blind continued whilst having Martial & Rashford both playing as forwards rather than crosses of the ball.
 
Sky1981 said:
Even if we find a good dof it'll take a good 2 - 3 years to have any pulse on his impact. Probably more.
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Doesn't mean we shouldn't hire one. We clearly need to start rebuilding the structure of the club, the sooner the better. While a DoF doesn't magically solve all of our problems, I'm quite certain it would improve the footballing side of the club in the long run. Ed supports money, not football, and therefore aren't really suited to be running the footballing side of the club.
 
Jardim would be a massive upgrade to Mourinho, I guess I could coach the team better than him.



 
Klopp also had the same problem, yet has been excellent at Pool. So you can't really take anything for a given. At this point idk who is right for us, all I know is that the ones here presently aren't either.
 
Nate Dogg said:
Jardim would be a massive upgrade to Mourinho, I guess I could coach the team better than him.



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Perfect for us. Don't mind his league position, Klopp was similarly disastrous with Dortmund in his final season despite recovering to 7th.

But I have no doubts Ed won't be able to see his worth.
 
Nate Dogg said:
Jardim would be a massive upgrade to Mourinho, I guess I could coach the team better than him.



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Bayern and Madrid could sack their managers before us and I could see either of them being interested in him. Hope we get rid of Jose and bring him in.
 
Would love Jardim. Think he's perfect for the re-building job we have here. Won a league title, champions league semi finals, developed young players, plays good football. Ticks so many boxes. It won't happen of course because United.
 
Can't he see what an attacking side we are when he lets the fecking players off the leash?

Let the players attack and the defence would not be so much of a problem because we'd always be attacking, the opposition would have too much to worry about defending their own goal.
 
If Jardim becomes available in a few weeks and the club decides to let Mourinho finish the year, what are the chances that a viable option is on the market in summer 2019?
 
This club is reactive in everything it does. Jardim will not be coming here.
 
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