The Mourinho Thread: Should he stay or go? | Sacked

Is Mourinho’s time as United manager up?

  • Yes

    Votes: 2,296 77.1%
  • No

    Votes: 293 9.8%
  • Not yet - needs more time to see if he can turn it around

    Votes: 388 13.0%

  • Total voters
    2,977
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People legit acting like Aldereweild or other CB would have been the difference :lol:
 
Just want to say this. It seems that many people in the “Mourinho Out” camp are firm believers of the 3rd year meltdown from his previous jobs. So much so that they have this predetermined notion that it will all go to shit this season just because its his 3rd year, so they convince themselves of something that is not really there. What they neglect is that at all of his previous clubs there were certain circumstances that prevented him from carrying on.

For example how would one like it if after your companies greatest performance (you playing a vital role) in recent history (Chelsea 1st time and Madrid) you have your bosses breathing down your neck criticizing everything you do. This can also be applied to the second stint at Chelsea as well to a certain degree.

Context matters. As for Porto and Inter, he left after winning the CL to go onto bigger positions, it was a career move. Porto to Chelsea is a step up, Inter to Madrid is a step up. So those 3rd years were not quite meltdowns were they?


I’m not saying things have been perfect under him so far, it would be naive to think so. However instead of piping on about this third season shite, analyze the context of previous clubs as well as our club. Situations are different and others history should dictate our future.

We could do better, without a doubt, but sacking him can lead to worse.
 
I'm flying between the 2 camps.

I've been a strong Jose supporter up until the start of the season. However, this was on the basis of Jose addressing a few long term issues:
1) Right Wing. Particularly not playing Mata there
2) Overcautious tactics against both the top 6 and the lesser teams
3) Improving our attacking tactics/ play
4) Stop playing players who are clearly not good enough in certain positions (Darmian, Mata and now Lindeloff). This also includes a possible reluctance to offload 'average players and take a risk with academy youngsters for squad positions

I'm afraid those 1st two performances highlighted Jose failing to address the issues and given the poor performances from last season, is an 'insanity' example of 'doing the same thing twice and expecting a different result'. Meanwhile a new issue is introduced of Jose appearing to fall out with playing and non-playing staff.

That's my negatives and I was expecting inaction for the rest of the season, hence why I moved into the 'Jose Out' camp.

Last night completely changed that. I saw a change in tactics, positive attacking play and a change in personell. I also saw fight and passion in Jose.

Yes we got beat 3-0, but that's the most undeserving scoreline I've seen in a long time. I don't think much can be blamed on Jose for last night, where I'd put the majority of criticism on him for our last 3 games (I'm including the FA Cup final).

If he keeps this up, then it won't be long until we are back to challenging again. A few signings in the winter (sort it out Ed) and we could easily end this season with cup silverware

I'm afraid that if I see a return to the above issues, then Jose would have soon have run out of 2nd chances and I'll be back in the out camp. He can't return back to factors/ issues that will cause failure
 
It felt like we were so close this summer. 2nd place, 81 points, just one more summer of investment could have seen:
De Gea
Sidibe - Bailly - Alderweireld - Sandro(/Shaw?)
Fred - Matic - Pogba
Someone - Lukaku - Sanchez

You don't need to be the proven world class manager that Jose is to do big things with that 11.

What a time to pull the plug.

Its frustrating. I think we just needed 4 signings for the first 11.
We got one in Fred.
CB, RB, RW attack was all that was needed too.
Ok Dalot is future RB, so fine.
So that leaves CB and RW. You get Toby and a RW attack and I think we challenge for the title.

Instead it seems like a sideways step by the board esp after giving Jose an extension.

That probably helps see the sales of Mata, Jones, Rojo along with Blind. And possibly Darmian too.
 
I see a Mourinho out thread on here and I want to create a little home for the minority on the Caf with an opposite thread.

I don't think our situation will be rectified by sacking Jose and bringing in whoever else. I think that's seeing what's wrong with the club as being just about Jose first and foremost. It's ignoring the obvious progress we've made and wanting to start on a fourth project in just over 5 years. He's already shown he can win things. City are away from the pack clearly, they've got a brilliant manager and a squad groomed for him plus finances to improve at will. But compared to everyone else, Jose has shown - whatever you think about the style (which in my view has always been flexible mainly down to adapting to each game, sometimes appalling player's form) - he can win more games and finish higher up the table. And that with a squad that is lacking some serious balance which none of the other top teams lack.

Look at the game tonight. He makes loads of changes with some players who haven't played yet this season and he's gone with a team he trusts best. And it was evident in how we approached that first half. Loads of energy and top commitment. In the end, that scoreline flatters Spurs, though we started to crumble at the back once we got sucker punched with their second.
Those players looked to me like they were playing for the manager. And the player he's been most hard on has responded with his best United performance to date. Shaw looked better tonight than I'd first hoped he'd become.

We have Jones slipping up marking Kane, Smalling making a hash of things against Moura and Lindelof committing the worst mistake, spared total embarrassment by Dave (who reportedly has been made some derisory contract offer). Jose wanted to buy a first class centre back, think he was onto something?

We had loads of crosses in the game in great positions but they all lacked quality. That's way too often been the case, for such a long time. Jose wanted a winger, think he was onto something?

We are as totally reliant on Lukaku as Spurs are on Kane, but the difference is only one is clinical and ours isn't. 3 sitters missed in 3 games this season. Apparently Jose wanted a backup striker. If he did, he was onto something.

Every manager makes misjudgments in the market, but at the top clubs it varies quite a lot if you can afford one or two misjudgements or not. And Spurs, Liverpool and City have been building in the same direction now for years when we've had 3 different managers. I imagine a new manager will have a short-term positive effect on the morale (if Ed gets help with the decision) and then find the same problems we have with the squad now in terms of lack of quality, lack of balance and different levels of professionalism. Offering no guarantee that they'd do better, or even as well, as Jose has. And not getting the funds to really compete for major trophies.

I'm backing Jose.

Part of his job is to buy players to improve the squad. He has had 3 summer transfer windows to do this. Maybe we have better individual players to when he arrived but as a team it is shocking. There is no chemistry or balance in the team.

5 CBs - none of which are good enough, 6 CM, 3 LW but only one striker and no RW. There is no logic to the transfer strategy.
 
Like I said in the Woodward thread, the problems in this club lie far deeper than the manager.

Our squad isn't balanced, it needs work - we need to get rid of some players, and upgrade some more. But the signing policy to that effect has been a shambles and we have signed players who weren't a good fit, and missed out on some who would have been. Yes, we have spent a lot, but we haven't spent well, so we're still an imbalanced side. On top of that, our CEO loves playing God. His mad thirst for galactico signings, his poor recruitment of managers, his decision to influence transfers without having any football knowledge, and his ineptness while making those transfers happen, are all bigger problems than Jose's football. Our board doesn't seem to have a plan or vision for the ethos we believe in, the type of football we play, or the kind of people we hire. Nor have they hired someone who is well qualified to answer those questions.

Sacking Jose and signing Zidane will not solve any of those problems. We'll still have an imbalanced squad. We will still feck up at the back when we try to play attacking football. We still have no one down the right. If he is trusted with a lot of money, and doesn't spend it well because we don't seem to have a good scouting/transfer team or because Ed vetoes it, he'll still not catch up with Man City or Liverpool. And if he doesn't do well, we still don't know whom to hire next once he's sacked, because we don't know what sort of a manager we're looking for.

Jose is at least trying his best. We're trying to improve our football, the manager is saying the right things, and frankly, he's the best option we have right now till a DoF is hired. There is no meltdown now, this is a completely different response from Jose to defeats as compared to his Chelsea season. Instead of throwing players under the bus, he's backing them all. Instead of blaming the negativity some other people are creating (read Pogba/Ed), he's praising the support of the fans. Instead of retreating more into a shell, he's had the players play good football in that first half. Instead of grumbling about some version of 'I told you so', he's refusing to speak about transfers. Instead of blaming individual players while being constantly baited with the press, he's returning fire with fury in the media. Instead of coming out with negativity as he usually does, he's being confident and strong in his stance. He may not be the best manager for us long term, given his philosophies, but he's definitely the best manager for us right now, given the crisis our club is in.

I'm backing Jose here. Given the circumstances, I think it'd be great if he could deliver us top 4 this season, by hook or crook. That gives us time to get a DoF and fix things next summer.
#JoseIn
 
People legit acting like Aldereweild or other CB would have been the difference :lol:
Dont you know that you cant playing decent attacking football against relegation fodder like Brighton or Leicester at Old Trafford without Mahrez or Vardy in the starting 11 unless you have a world class centerback partnership???
Or now suddenly the centerbacks who over the past 5 years have one of the best defensive records in the league are the reason we are losing 3-0 and looking shambolic. I'm not saying they are perfect or even good enough, I'd sell them all and start from scratch, but a good coach should be able to make them perform decently and you should be able to see the coaches impact on the team (in a positive fashion).
 
Thanks. Happy to agree to disagree!

Whether I agree with the post or not, I like a good well balanced argument rather than a pointless tangent.

FWIW, I agree with a good bit of your post it’s just I’ve lost faith that Mourinho can turn this around. I would love if he could as I deeply respect him.
 
Dont you know that you cant playing decent attacking football against relegation fodder like Brighton or Leicester at Old Trafford without Mahrez or Vardy in the starting 11 unless you have a world class centerback partnership???
Or now suddenly the centerbacks who over the past 5 years have one of the best defensive records in the league are the reason we are losing 3-0 and looking shambolic. I'm not saying they are perfect or even good enough, I'd sell them all and start from scratch, but a good coach should be able to make them perform decently and you should be able to see the coaches impact on the team (in a positive fashion).

Yes, I agree with this. Fergie always got the best out of his players 110%. He made them all feel they were world class and they never gave up when going a goal or 2 down.
 
Ok Johnny a bad suggestion I admit but City were happy to offer close to 20 million for him about 9 months ago and he's done a hell of a lot more in the game than Smalling and Jones in the past couple of years. But Maguire at 14 million a year ago = Jose no interest. But put that price up to 85 million a year later and Jose will crawl on his hands and knees to touch Eds feet to beg
I don't think he waits for the prices to rise.. Nor do we have to look for players City are looking for. Getting Evans instead of Jones or Smalling would be just silly.
 
I'm not a Mourinho out tomorrow sort of guy, because I don't see who would come in to replace him. Surely Zidane would want a bit of time, some English lessons, a period to look at the squad and give Woodward some targets and Poch would never leave Spurs mid-season. So we need to wait.

Things could get so bad. So toxic. That there is really no choice other than to remove him. If so, we might as well go down the popular ex-player route. I'd opt for Gary Neville despite his Valencia disaster, I think there was a lot of mitigating factors plus he knows how to talk to the fans which will be half the battle.
 
United is at its best when the vultures are circling and everyone is out for its blood. Hopefully, this is the United that comes out next week and beyond. We needed a catalyst to jump-start the season. And maybe this is it.

Adding more pressure and making big changes in mid-turmoil is not going to help anyone. We need to de-stress. Players and the club need to know that we have their backs. Not many people respond well or rise to to the challenge when their own supporters are baying with anger. It's still early in the season. Give them time to sort it out. If they don't, well then there other options...But not now.
 
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If we're having the sack the manager conversation, we should be having the sack half the squad, the board, the CEO, and owners too. Because this shit show is so much bigger and deeper than Jose Mourinho.
 
I can’t see how it’s going to get any better, there is a clear lack of direction from both the club and manager.

I was delighted when Jose joined but it’s clear to see there is no improvement, how can you be three years into a project with no clear progression. I think it needs someone with a spark and attacking philosophy maybe Zidane is that guy.

We have a good squad with some outstanding players, our defence last season were pretty solid and getting Luke Shaw back up and running will be a big plus, he was superb yesterday.

I just want the joy to come back watching the team I love !!
 
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We could lose to Burnley and he won't be sacked. Sacking him isn't going to fix things. No point in not supporting him and the players, it's not going to get better anytime soon though.
 
I've never really liked Mourinho and didn't want him to become our manager. Don't like his demenaor and style of play Not a great fan of the way the club has been run in the last few years and then kind of signings we've made.

But having said all that yesterday watching him stand alone and applaud the Stretford End shifted something in me. It's quite possible that it was all a show by Jose for the cameras but I still saw determination in the man's eyes. Another reason I think it was genuine was his lashing out at the press after the match, if he was playing for the cameras he wouldn't have had a kind of meltdown.

I think what we are seeing are genuine emotions from him. He has the determination to turn it around but he just doesn't know how at the moment. We lambast our players for not caring enough and not showing enough determination, let's not turn our back on our manager when he still has that bit of fire in him.

We are not gonna win the league this season and the worst that's gonna happen is we don't qualify for the CL, but we've already shown that we can still attract top players and managers even without CL. I can't believe I'm saying this but I'm in the Mourinho In camp. Let's give the guy a chance to turn it around and see if he still has that something special left in him.

The way he embraced a dejected Luke Shaw (probably our motm) was also another example of his passion and a step-change in a more positve outlook.

Combined with the media and fan actions that you mentioned, this seems like a genuine desire and fight in Jose that we probably have not seen.

i don't this this is for show like some of Klopp's cheap and overused parlour tricks to please the fans. This why I'm back in the 'Jose In' camp - he seems like a man who can turn it around.

Now we if we can sort out Ed and put a rocket up certain players to perform
 
Let's be clear here every top team needs at least one ball playing centre half. Every Vidic needs a Rio and every Terry needs a Carvalho. The modern game demands it and currently we don't have that luxury of building attacks from the back.

Now it's obvious to me that Mourinho knows this. He signed Bailly to be his Terry and Lindelof to be his ball player. Whilst I think Bailly will come good unfortunately Lindelof hasn't worked out (it happens from time to time) and as such Mourinho rightly identified we needed a replacement, with experience, to settle into the back four. This would also give Lindelof more time to grow and develop.

For whatever reason we didn't get that centre half so we are back to where we started. We must change our style to protect the CBs or see them exposed in their inability to play under pressure and retain possession. The situation is even worse as De Gea is not great with the ball at his feet so essentially we end up playing hoof ball from the back which ultimately looks like that's what Mourinho wants when he actually wants the opposite. It's what the limitations of the players on the pitch allow currently and it's killing us.

He's tired playing Pogba deeper so he can collect the ball much like Scholes would later on in his career but that restricts him going forward, invites criticism and deprives us of our main creative outlet in the final third. Really it's a no win situation that we should have sorted in the summer. Which ever combination we go for at the back will struggle and we need to find a way to move the ball forward from these areas accurately and avoid them being pressed on the ball.

Look at what Pep did first season. He had the same issue so instructed his full backs to come inside to recieve the ball and play it out. In the meantime results were mixed but the club backed him with two new ball playing keepers and 5 new £40m+ defenders; a total rebuild and overhaul.

We have left Mourinho with Jones, Smalling and Rojo (none of whom he brought in and none of whom can play from the back effectively).

I do think alot of the criticism Jose gets is unfair for these reasons.
 
There's a serious flaw with that logic; the assumption is that each year the results should be better than the previous (in terms of table position, cup progress, etc.), but that's not necessarily the case. The Spurs and City have gone up and down the table over the years and arrived where they are today, for example.

I don't know what it is about today's match, but for some reason I felt optimistic afterwards. There was something in the air.

We're not talking "over the years", we're talking from last year to this year. Should we be content to drop to 4th or worse after finishing a very distant 2nd last year, at a time when the likes of Liverpool, City, and Spurs finish above us ? I don't believe anyone is prepared to accept that.
 
United is at its best when the vultures are circling and everyone is out for its blood. Hopefully, this is the United that comes out next week and beyond. We needed a catalyst to jump-start the season. And maybe this is it.

Adding more pressure and making big changes in mid-turmoil is not going to help anyone. We need to de-stress. Players and the club need to know that we have their backs. Not many people respond well or rise to to the challenge when their own supporters are baying with anger. It's still early in the season. Give them time to sort it out. If they don't, well then there other options...But not now.
Not in the last 5 years.

Usually we just crumble.
 
Woodward isn’t going anywhere, the Glazers are here for long term and you can realistically only buy and sell so many players each window.

Mourinho shares the blame with others for current state but when things aren’t working he will be the one to lose out, same as any other manager. There is a lack of direction on and off the pitch and we havent progressed significantly in 5 years, the same old problems keep occurring. Changing that is going to take time and a new approach, beyond this season it isn’t a job for Mourinho.
 
Jose has no track record of turning things around after the rot sets in. I just don't think it's in his psych. He is an arrogant man and any attempt at being humble just plays out wrong. How can somebody like that change a team.

I stuck with him right to the death at Chelsea because they are my team, but looking back it was inevitable he would go. I went through all the thought processes and believed he would change and things would get better. Cliché warning! He lost the dressing room. Either they stopped playing for him or he was unable to make himself understood. I've even entertained the idea that tactically he really didn't know what he was doing in the end.

At Utd I see some similarities. Wholesale changes to the team. Good players not turning up. I see Pogba play and think the guy just looks confused. He was having a moan at his team mates last night when all he had to do was release the ball. He got all upset and just gifted Spurs a throw in. How has this happened to player who only a few weeks ago was winning the world cup. Worst of all the players don't seem to understand what they are meant to be doing at certain times in the game. The confidence has gone.
 
We could lose to Burnley and he won't be sacked. Sacking him isn't going to fix things. No point in not supporting him and the players, it's not going to get better anytime soon though.
Agreed. We shouldn’t get rid before we have a clear option in place, which won’t be before the season is finished.
 
Agreed. We shouldn’t get rid before we have a clear option in place, which won’t be before the season is finished.

If we're having the sack the manager conversation, we should be having the sack half the squad, the board, the CEO, and owners too. Because this shit show is so much bigger and deeper than Jose Mourinho.

All the defense for not sacking him sounds eerily similar to the defense Arsenal fans used to give years ago.
"Its not him, its the board not spending enough money"
"Its the players"
"There is no one better".
 
I’m completely behind Jose. From his pressers and interviews you could tell he knew exactly where he wanted and needed to strengthen, laid out targets for the management who let him down. We already know that our players have weak mentalities. And it is pretty obvious that our defensive setup last season and the Seasons before was because we needed to cover our weak defence (LVG employed similar “cover” tactics for the defence). We just have too many players who are either not good enough or are drama queens.
 
Refuse all you want it's the harsh truth, you're turning on a manager who just finished second because of a 3 game bad start. A manager the players are evidently still behind.

The first defence on here is always "its not just the exact reason this thread was created". It's boring and transparent.
People wanted him out when he finished 2nd last year and it’s just a continuation of that with the added pressure of the summer and a poor start so far. It’s not as simple as you or others like to make it look by saying things like, “oh it’s a disgrace after 3 games people want him sacked” people want him sacked after the 140 or so games they’ve seen.
 
The only question I would ask is, are we improving under Jose? If the answer to that question is no,then he has to go. It's as simple as that. Lose again on Sunday and I expect him to be gone by the beginning of next week
 
He’s been backed into a corner by an accountant.
Woodward should have had a sack thread first.
You don’t back the manager of a building project then not get him the materials that he’s requested
.
Our defence is shite and the rest of the team is nervous because of it. We played Smalling and Jones who were getting flak from fans when SAF was in charge.
I think this is the end, by sack or walkout, but the majority of the blame should go on Woodward.
Totally agree with this and even Neville and Carragher said it before the season started. It's bizarre to just give up on the Mourinho project when we finished 2nd last season and clearly needed a few top players to close the gap on City and try to win the title this season. Mourinho just has way more ambition than Woodward and our board. That lot are happy with a side that can get top four finishes every season while Mourinho wants to build title winning sides.
 
While that face to face with the Stretford End was a bit showy I did like the passion and siege mentality. Not every manager would have had the balls to do that and it showed he's right up for the fight. Easy way out would have been to keep his head down and skulk off down the tunnel but he's gone toe to toe and basically said 'We're in this together, I'm going nowhere' and it undoubtedly displayed a united front. The players battled like mad last night and on that showing (commitment wise) there's no issue.

If we play like that first 45 minutes then we will take points off most of the top six and beat 90% of the rest. Given the level of opposition it was the best 45 minute performance I've seen from any side in the PL so far this season. The pressing was excellent, football was pacey and we were right at it.
 
What players has he improved? Do we have a style of play? Does he know his best starting 11? Does he have a settled centre back partnership or back 4?

Answer is no. Going in to his 3rd season now you think he would have most of this boxed off. Think it's time for someone else to come in. Someone that can utilise the ability of some of the players we have.
 
I'm still very much Mourinho in and I will be until at least the end of the season.
Under Mourinho we've had some great matches, some terrible matches and plenty inbetween. What we have done successfully I'd say, is improve the quality of the squad over time. Certain signings haven't worked, but that's bound to happen, ultimately we needed serious backing this season to try and make up the points on city.
Whether that came through a centre back to shore us up at the back and allow us to be more expansive, or a brilliant RvP esque striker is indifferent.
It does seem like he still has backing, though. The fans, players, coaches etc will all likely back him to the hilt, and with good reason.
If we manage a good run and stop bleeding points then the media drama will settle.
I'll be interested to see where we are three games from now, stylistically as well as what results we'll end up with.
 
It's player's fault - Yes. Woodward is a spineless jellyfish and can't even deliver players on schedule - Yes... but to say it's not Mourinho's fault who's here third year and chunk of that squad are his players that he signed it's almost jumping the shark. He's responsible for some things he does and says because he's The Manager.

I'm not even talking about the style of football but purely based on results which are fundamental and so far he can't even deliver that. Who's responsibility is making clearout of deadwood if not the manager's ? Who wanted Darmian to stay and offered that joke of a contract to Fellaini ? He can't even find winger on the market that would tear apart defenses as he doesn't trust Martial.

Jose Mourinho is in part responsible as he didn't became a manager yesterday and now he doesn't even have a competent assistant to help him cope with situation.
 
I am also backing José.

He has a massive job going forward though, and I understand the arguments sacking him.

I am personally sick and tired of the sack game, and I don’t think any of the candidates available would improve us. If he where to go I would like for Pochettino to come in, but that ain’t happening. So for now I am backing Mourinho, but my patience for him is wearing thin.
 
Its heartbreak to see a loss like that while we put such effort to it, the skill cap is here on both tactics and player side, Jose rack his brain to try win the game but the defense line failed him again, thats pathetic, so we do need a new center back or someone else to improve.

But from the other hand, the last 2 season board did provide him large amount of fund to sign great player like pog and lukaku. However they dont have the consistency.

I think Mou will leave whatever happened this season, this is good for both of them, right now I feel like our club is like a black hole, cause we are not on one direction from beginning to the end. Nevertheless, I will still support him as long as he is the manager of Man Utd.
 
I still have a tiny hope he will turn it around.it is because players still want to play for him despite having off form at the moment. However,this unity will not last if we keep losing week after week
 
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