The Mourinho Thread: Should he stay or go? | Sacked

[rpitchfo]

62% . I’m shocked. In general I think our fans are quite conservative regarding change so that’s a big surprise.

I’d make the decision 10 games in as to whether we look likely to get around 75 points.

 

[groovyalbert]

Lift the doom and gloom around the club would be something, it's just depressing and negative, everything about the club at the moment is wrong.

I want some positivity from somewhere.

But that, at best, would be temporary I fear. In much the same way that Jose's first season played out (success in the League Cup and Europa), without longterm planning from above, any chopping and changing in the current context would not result in longterm success.

As much as we hate to admit it, I think we need to take a leaf out of Liverpool's book. By the end of Rodgers' reign, they looked in a similar way: disjointed, no passion, no discernible evidence of them being able to compete with the best any time soon. Their next appointment was considered and planned, and the board committed wholeheartedly to it. They may not have won anything since Klopp took over, but you'd have to have your head in the sand if you think we're in anyway in a similar place to Liverpool. They're clearly progressing, we're stagnating.

The absolute best thing we could do right now is get contemporary, football minded, progressive minds on the board to help determine the footballing future of the club. This would probably mean a DoF coming in. Sadly, I don't see this happening. The egos of both Ed and Jose would probably lessen the impact this figure would have. We've already seen it with Ribalta leaving virtually as soon as he arrived. No part of this club is willing to embrace progressive footballing ideals - both on the pitch, and off it.

 

[Salus Populi Suprema Lex]

The morning after the night before and I have a sense of foreboding, I must admit. I don't know where we go from here: I don't think we should sack Jose, but I have little confidence things are about to improve. We're in a mess.

 

[Judas]

Absolutely nothing in the Jose's history supports the fact that once he's lost the dressing room and even worse - the board, he can turn it around. Has any manager actually ever done this?

I do feel a bit for Jose but I'm afraid that this marriage simply doesn't work and it's not worth to waste each other time. I'm far from even dreaming of the premier league title but I simply doesn't want another year outside of Champions League.

Don't think he has "lost the dressing room" though, not totally, that performance yesterday was not of a team who aren't playing for the manager, some of them are for sure. It's a weird situation.

 

[TsuWave]

Yeah keep going with attacking the poster instead of adressing the matter. You still don't have an answer. Next time, when you make a statement, think about the fact that you might get called out on it.

you're just being flat out weird or dumb, and trying to paint yourself as a victim of an "attack" won't change that. need i post our exchange again? you said we made progress the past 2 years, then stated this "then someone decided our CB's are good enough, and now we're seeing they're garbage", verbatim.

those include CB's that Mourinho brought in less than two years ago. then I questioned how much progress we have really made by asserting that our second place finish was greatly due to De Gea having a freakishly good season (which you took to mean De Gea is responsible for our "improvement" lol). I went further and stated that at no point did I feel we were dominant, and said that we still lack basic competence both in attack or defence, all facts. All this with this being Mourinho's 3rd season already, I said that the "progress" hill, shouldn't be the hill you want to die on. We did just get peppered by Brighton, thrown to the bushes by Spurs, at home.

The fact that you think you called me out on anything just compounds how delusional you are coming off as. You can either read, process and understand or you can't. It's not my damage, and at this point, I'm not gonna navigate you through this conversation again.

 

[Ish]

Both Mourinho and Woodward should go, or at least, Woodward should be moved into a role where he purely focuses on growing the commercial side of the business.

Think both of them, plus the players need to take collective blame.

 

[Robbie Boy]

Oh no, I can see some starting with the 'Jose haters' rhetoric. Fwiw, I like him and wanted him here. I can admit however that things really haven't gone as I expected and I can't see him turning it around. The summer he signed along with Zlatan and Pogba, I genuinely thought we were destined for great times again. Things have really unravelled since that summer. He picked up the mess that Moyes and LvG left, but I feel now, he's leaving a mess of his own which is sad really.

Some of his blind defenders have stooped to new lows since last night. Taking positives from a 3 nil home defeat to Spurs is absolutely comical.

 

[gica_7]

He will go. It's a matter of when rather than if. I thought he would really embrace the club after that Chelsea fiasco. It was obvious that he wanted the job after Fergie retired and I thought finally granting his wish would make him better. But, none of these happened. He can say that last year was a success as much as he wants. It wasn't. That team should have done better.

The most annoying thing for me is, after almost two years, the only occasion that he embraces, the only occasion that he gives fans a sign of emotion is after his worst defeat. I think that was nothing more than just a pose to Woodward. The reason why Mourinho got this exposure was his communication with the fans during his Chelsea spell. Yet, what we have seen is a dull, miserable character. It is hard to get behind him when he hardly looks like he wants to be here.

Despite all of these, it frustrates me that Jose will be the scapegoat of all of these. Woodward has turned this club into an absolute shambles. He turned this club into a billboard but I am also not sure if that is down to his genius. United has millions of supporters around the world. It is not like he turned West Ham into a sponsporhip magnet or anything. You can find thousands of people who can generate that sponsorship revenue without doing poorly on football side. Yesterday, the centre back that our manager wanted turned Lukaku's life into a nightmare. He even started a counter attack with a perfect pass. Yet, our genius CEO thought he was no better than injury prone Jones and Swedish headless chicken. And, it frustrated me even more to see his bloody annoyed pose when the cameras showed him. Stop it, you are to blame as much as anyone.

Jose has to go. But, with the next manager, if this club operates exactly the same way that it operated under Jose or LvG than we will open up a similar thread like this. We need a complete overhaul. If that will start with Jose, so be it. But, if he will be the only one, it won't be different.

 

[GaryLifo]

He needs more time IMO.

This is just my opinion so obviously you are free to disagree. However, I think it's possible we got to see the vision for how Jose, Carrick and McKenna want us to try and play. Please ignore the missed chances and the poor defending and just bear with me here. Did you not watch that first half and think "blimey this is much more like it!"? Did it not look like a style of play that was fitting for United at OT and also something you could get behind at last?

Clearly there were quality issues in a few positions that were being filled by stand-in players if this was a system we keep playing in future (e.g. Herrera as a RCB).

You can also see why Jose felt he needed top class experienced CBs to play in that back 3 given that this system leaves us open to the counter. But haven't so many of you been claiming you'd rather lose 3-0 after having a damn good go at the opposition rather than parking the bus and losing 1-0 or getting a 0-0?

Jose may not be the man in the long run, but surely you can all give him until the end of the season IF I am right that this new system we saw last night is going to be the attacking style at last? It may fail, but I've honestly not felt as excited by a United performance in a very long time as i did during the first 50 minutes of that game.

If 3-5-2 is our formation then recruitment of new players can be for that system rather than just buying whichever big name, highly commercial player comes available. Isn't this what Pep and Klopp have done? Did either of them get it right and have a complete 1st eleven in their first season? (And yes I know Jose is in his 3rd season, but this would be his first season of playing this system with these coaches).

Anyway, that's my 2 pence for whatever it's worth.

 

[kr0nix]

It's simple than if the board doesn't trust him let him go. But problems at this club run far deeper. Unfortunately many fans see just to surface and think afere letting the hated Jose go we will see sunlight.

Also we made an improvement results wide and I'm not buying into its been all that to DDG and that we somehow stumbled onto that position.

It's a bad situation, he needs a player, doesn't get it, fails and it's all down to him while Ed wiggles his way out of it.

If the rumours are true that the club is looking to appoint a director of football, then Ed won't be handling the football side of things for much longer. The business side of things is clearly his forte, so let him stay there. At that point, it wouldn't make sense for Mou to continue, so we may as well let him go and entrust the DOF to restructure the coaching and playing staff as they see fit.

Even if we do come out of this rut you can't shake the feeling that Mou has taken us as far as he can, even if Woodward does need to go himself.

 

[drdoityourself]

His third season here. He hasn't settled on a formation. He hasn't found a trusted starting core. He hasn't formed a visible identity when I watch this team.
I haven't seen the development in the younger players I hoped to see.
His reported transfer targets are unimaginative choices, most of them around thirty years of age. The right wing has been neglected, we got a fresh reminder of what that position can give you when Lucas Moura put us to the sword yesterday.

He's negative and gloomy almost every time he's interviewed. He's negative in his tactics and sets his team up to stop others.

I see nothing that leads me to believe we're heading in the right direction.
We need to build an identity that suits United, an attacking mentality and a will to improve players. Mourinho has to go IMO.

He's of course not the sole problem at this club. It just seems directionless. Our U23 coach is a 62 year old, defensive, failed manager. And Woodward shouldn't be running the sporting part of the business.

 

[Judge Red]

Defeats like last night’s are supposed to be blessings in disguise. Seems like our board needs a couple more blessings in disguise, summing up where the problem really lies at this club.

A manager doesn’t recover from this no matter how good he is.

 

[Robbie Boy]

Spuddy Woody will have to front up to this shite too, but they both have to go. If Mourinho salvages this, it will be nothing short of a miracle, all things considered.

 

[kr0nix]

62% . I’m shocked. In general I think our fans are quite conservative regarding change so that’s a big surprise.

I’d make the decision 10 games in as to whether we look likely to get around 75 points.

I wouldn't be surprised if the board have started to sound out potential candidates already.

 

[TrueRed79]

I’m all for getting rid of Jose but our problems run deeper than him. All I want is proper owners and a proper board of directors who understand football. We are rudderless and that stems from the top. This thread is knee jerk and people need to calm down. I know it won’t happen anytime soon but I cannot wait for the day when the Glazers get the feck out of Manchester. As for the massive fore headed twat of a chairman who thinks he knows better than a manager, he’s a bigger problem than Jose. Surely people can see that?
Edit: This really should be a Woodward Out thread

 

[MalcolmTucker]

His third season here. He hasn't settled on a formation. He hasn't found a trusted starting core. He hasn't formed a visible identity when I watch this team.
I haven't seen the development in the younger players I hoped to see.
His reported transfer targets are unimaginative choices, most of them around thirty years of age. The right wing has been neglected, we got a fresh reminder of what that position can give you when Lucas Moura put us to the sword yesterday.

He's negative and gloomy almost every time he's interviewed. He's negative in his tactics and sets his team up to stop others.

I see nothing that leads me to believe we're heading in the right direction.
We need to build an identity that suits United, an attacking mentality and a will to improve players. Mourinho has to go IMO.

He's of course not the sole problem at this club. It just seems directionless. Our U23 coach is a 62 year old, defensive, failed manager. And Woodward shouldn't be running the sporting part of the business.

Good post. Agree with everything

 

[sunama]

We won't. As a club we potter about too much. Ed will stick with him for a season - of this i'm sure

As long as he can still get top 4, Jose will remain in place.

One thing which I did realise after yesterday's game is that when we play attacking football against a top 6 side, our defenders shit themselves. I now realise why LVG and now Jose, go into their shells when we play a good side.
We saw it against LCFC (under LVG), when he completely changed his playing style, after Vardy walloped our entire defence. And I saw it yesterday - when our mdifield are on the attack, our defenders do not have the skill necessary to prevent an attack and completely rely on DDG to bail them out. Jones is a complete liability who time after time concedes goals, yet Jose keeps picking him.

Yesterday, we saw 3 defenders. Smalling, Jones and Toby A. Jose wanted Toby because he is better than all our CBs and I don't think our DoF (Woodward) believed this to be true. Well, yesterday it was plain everybody to see. Toby is several levels above anything we have in our team. We have a striker who is struggling to put the ball in the back of the net. We have Paul Pogba who is playing as if he is conserving his energy.

We have a DoF who knows little about football and is overruling decisions made by Jose and the results of this are showing on the pitch.

IMO Woodward needs to be relieved of his duties as DoF. As CEO, he is fine.

 

[Minimalist]

Bit tired of hearing how last night was some brilliant attacking performance. I missed the first 20 minutes so I can only assume we looked like Barcelona in that period because what I watched was hardly much better than the usual Jose shite. 0-3 defeats aren’t matches to take positives from. We couldn’t even fecking score.

 

[Ban]

If the rumours are true that the club is looking to appoint a director of football, then Ed won't be handling the football side of things for much longer. The business side of things is clearly his forte, so let him stay there. At that point, it wouldn't make sense for Mou to continue, so we may as well let him go and entrust the DOF to restructure the coaching and playing staff as they see fit.

Even if we do come out of this rut you can't shake the feeling that Mou has taken us as far as he can, even if Woodward does need to go himself.

I think it's just Ed's briefings to calm the fans down and he has no intention of appointing DOF at all. Board is happy for us to be in top 4 and get commercial deals. They don't have a plan for a long run at all.

 

[predator]

It's not nice seeing a person go through what he is now. Being ridiculed by millions of people must take it's toll no matter how much money you earn. I genuinely feel for him because he seems desperate to do well here and has always had respect for us throughout his career.

I'm not sure if he can keep going for his own sake or the club's.

 

[sunama]

I’m all for getting rid of Jose but our problems run deeper than him. All I want is proper owners and a proper board of directors who understand football. We are rudderless and that stems from the top. This thread is knee jerk and people need to calm down. I know it won’t happen anytime soon but I cannot wait for the day when the Glazers get the feck out of Manchester. As for the massive fore headed twat of a chairman who thinks he knows better than a manager, he’s a bigger problem than Jose. Surely people can see that?

I agree with this 100%.
And if we get a new manager in the Summer, I think he'll be fired 2 years later.
The problem lies with the organisation of the club.
Woodward as DoF is as mind-boggling as the decision to hire Moyes.

 

[B20]

He'll go when and if it is mathematically impossible to get top 4.

Else in the summer when it will be rationalised as a necessary restructuring with a technical director/head coach servicing woodward's muppetry and the need for a clean slate at the start of a bright new project.

 

[Reapersoul20]

You don't think another manager could beat Brighton with these players?

One match. Show some respect to the man!!

 

[Ban]

I wouldn't be surprised if the board have started to sound out potential candidates already.

This will be interesting. I bet it will be Zidane just cause he's available.

 

[kr0nix]

As long as he can still get top 4, Jose will remain in place.

One thing which I did realise after yesterday's game is that when we play attacking football against a top 6 side, our defenders shit themselves. I now realise why LVG and now Jose, go into their shells when we play a good side.
We saw it against LCFC (under LVG), when he completely changed his playing style, after Vardy walloped our entire defence. And I saw it yesterday - when our mdifield are on the attack, our defenders do not have the skill necessary to prevent an attack and completely rely on DDG to bail them out. Jones is a complete liability who time after time concedes goals, yet Jose keeps picking him.

Yesterday, we saw 3 defenders. Smalling, Jones and Toby A. Jose wanted Toby because he is better than all our CBs and I don't think our DoF (Woodward) believed this to be true. Well, yesterday it was plain everybody to see. Toby is several levels above anything we have in our team. We have a striker who is struggling to put the ball in the back of the net. We have Paul Pogba who is playing as if he is conserving his energy.

We have a DoF who knows little about football and is overruling decisions made by Jose and the results of this are showing on the pitch.

IMO Woodward needs to be relieved of his duties as DoF. As CEO, he is fine.

Top 4 is a big ask at this point. City, Liverpool, Chelsea and Spurs are all in a far better position to claim a top four place than us at this point (yes I know it's early in the season).

 

[TsuWave]

We won't. As a club we potter about too much. Ed will stick with him for a season - of this i'm sure

spineless. both leadership and fans. the fact that a little more running around and a hand few of passes strung together in the first half of a match that ended up in a 0-3 home drubbing to Spurs is being used as evidence that we should persist with this charlatan is mind blowing to me.

 

[sunama]

The morning after the night before and I have a sense of foreboding, I must admit. I don't know where we go from here: I don't think we should sack Jose, but I have little confidence things are about to improve. We're in a mess.

Same here, man.
I think maybe Fergie needs to speak to Jose and come up with some new ideas.
Jose needs to change something. He is an elite level manager - one of the best - he needs to show this, now more than ever.

I would be livid, if he leaves us, joins another EPL club and wins them the league title, within 2 years. If this happens, it would conclusively prove that there is something intrinsically broken within the club.

 

[Murray3007]

He needs more time IMO.

This is just my opinion so obviously you are free to disagree. However, I think it's possible we got to see the vision for how Jose, Carrick and McKenna want us to try and play. Please ignore the missed chances and the poor defending and just bear with me here. Did you not watch that first half and think "blimey this is much more like it!"? Did it not look like a style of play that was fitting for United at OT and also something you could get behind at last?

Clearly there were quality issues in a few positions that were being filled by stand-in players if this was a system we keep playing in future (e.g. Herrera as a RCB).

You can also see why Jose felt he needed top class experienced CBs to play in that back 3 given that this system leaves us open to the counter. But haven't so many of you been claiming you'd rather lose 3-0 after having a damn good go at the opposition rather than parking the bus and losing 1-0 or getting a 0-0?

Jose may not be the man in the long run, but surely you can all give him until the end of the season IF I am right that this new system we saw last night is going to be the attacking style at last? It may fail, but I've honestly not felt as excited by a United performance in a very long time as i did during the first 50 minutes of that game.

If 3-5-2 is our formation then recruitment of new players can be for that system rather than just buying whichever big name, highly commercial player comes available. Isn't this what Pep and Klopp have done? Did either of them get it right and have a complete 1st eleven in their first season? (And yes I know Jose is in his 3rd season, but this would be his first season of playing this system with these coaches).

Anyway, that's my 2 pence for whatever it's worth.

Got to agree with this, my only problem is I don't see Jose sticking with it, I would prob rather let him go now and let Carrick and McKenna take charge till the end of the season or at least till xmas personally after 3 league games I see us out of the title race all ready. Jose strong point has always been his defence but when he cant get that right then you no its not going to end well.

 

[RedRover]

His third season here. He hasn't settled on a formation. He hasn't found a trusted starting core. He hasn't formed a visible identity when I watch this team.
I haven't seen the development in the younger players I hoped to see.
His reported transfer targets are unimaginative choices, most of them around thirty years of age. The right wing has been neglected, we got a fresh reminder of what that position can give you when Lucas Moura put us to the sword yesterday.

He's negative and gloomy almost every time he's interviewed. He's negative in his tactics and sets his team up to stop others.

I see nothing that leads me to believe we're heading in the right direction.
We need to build an identity that suits United, an attacking mentality and a will to improve players. Mourinho has to go IMO.

He's of course not the sole problem at this club. It just seems directionless. Our U23 coach is a 62 year old, defensive, failed manager. And Woodward shouldn't be running the sporting part of the business.

Spot on.

There are issues in how the club is ran but those who think that the answer to this was to throw another £150 million at Jose's proposed short term fixes are mad.

 

[WMY]

There is no way the players just turned garbage right after winning the league. There was a lot more to it.

Yes. I know someone working for CFC said hazard had an affair with the physio. Everyone in the club knows this and when she ran out to attend to hazard during the game, Mourinho must have thought the affair had affected it. The rest is history. Hazard then got his mates costa, fabregas etc to boycott and stop playing. The physio sued CFC and settled out of court. Everyone not in the know blames Mourinho for that season....

 

[Salus Populi Suprema Lex]

He needs more time IMO.

This is just my opinion so obviously you are free to disagree. However, I think it's possible we got to see the vision for how Jose, Carrick and McKenna want us to try and play. Please ignore the missed chances and the poor defending and just bear with me here. Did you not watch that first half and think "blimey this is much more like it!"? Did it not look like a style of play that was fitting for United at OT and also something you could get behind at last?

Clearly there were quality issues in a few positions that were being filled by stand-in players if this was a system we keep playing in future (e.g. Herrera as a RCB).

You can also see why Jose felt he needed top class experienced CBs to play in that back 3 given that this system leaves us open to the counter. But haven't so many of you been claiming you'd rather lose 3-0 after having a damn good go at the opposition rather than parking the bus and losing 1-0 or getting a 0-0?

Jose may not be the man in the long run, but surely you can all give him until the end of the season IF I am right that this new system we saw last night is going to be the attacking style at last? It may fail, but I've honestly not felt as excited by a United performance in a very long time as i did during the first 50 minutes of that game.

If 3-5-2 is our formation then recruitment of new players can be for that system rather than just buying whichever big name, highly commercial player comes available. Isn't this what Pep and Klopp have done? Did either of them get it right and have a complete 1st eleven in their first season? (And yes I know Jose is in his 3rd season, but this would be his first season of playing this system with these coaches).

Anyway, that's my 2 pence for whatever it's worth.

Good post, in my opinion, and I agree: give Jose the opportunity to put this right. This isn't the first time we've made a bad start to a season: even Fergie had a couple of those. Let's see what develops in the coming weeks: this may prove a wobble more than a crisis. Hold our collective nerve and see what transpires. If things continue like this, Mourinho knows he'll be sacked. Now he must earn his corn.

 

[Acole9]

They don't need to. All they need to do is have some semblance of a plan to be better than the current situation. After 2 years in the job Jose hasnt got a clue about how we should play.

Who do you suggest realistically we get in though at this point? Three games in and the transfer window closed.

 

[Champagne Football]

Thats all good but I don't think they would save our season.

Johhny Evans for 3 million would have been a fine stop-gap but Jose only buys if the price is astronomical. He's no interest in taking a risk on a bargain

 

[Utdstar01]

The football hasn't improved. Player Performances haven't really improved. Struggling to motivate the team. No particular style. Glaringly obvious weaknesses that have been there since the beginning haven't been rectified(RW, CB).

I'm fed up and tired of boring shite being played week in, week out for the last 5 years let alone this Mourinho reign. We aren't efficient like his chelsea teams. We aren't attractive to watch. So what are we?!

 

[Ban]

Johhny Evans for 3 million would have been a fine stop-gap but Jose only buys if the price is astronomical. He's no interest in taking a risk on a bargain

Johnny Evans? Seriously?

 

[kr0nix]

I think it's just Ed's briefings to calm the fans down and he has no intention of appointing DOF at all. Board is happy for us to be in top 4 and get commercial deals. They don't have a plan for a long run at all.

For the sake of discussion at least, we have to hope that isn't the case. Moreover, going by that reasoning, the board might have been content to let Martial go if they didn't want to invest and scrape through in 4th place. As it stands they did spend close to 50M on Fred and 20M on Dalot, but weren't willing to spend 75M on Alderweireld or Maguire. Something doesn't add up there. They come across as neither frugal nor profligate. It's weird.

 

[Irish Jet]

Johhny Evans for 3 million would have been a fine stop-gap but Jose only buys if the price is astronomical. He's no interest in taking a risk on a bargain

FFS Evans was sold for exactly the same reasons everyone wants Smalling and Jones sold. He's not good enough and never was. Mid table player like the rest of them.

 

[Oldyella]

My concern is, against Brighton we were awful, and you could see why we lost, no real issue, happens to every big club now and again. But against Spurs, we actually werent bad, we were not the attacking force some posters have made out, but we certainly had a go, and put Spurs on the back foot for periods of the game, but we still lost that game too. If we are losing games when we play 'well', thats a big concern.

All this chopping and changing cannot be helping either. He needs to decide how he wants us to play, and stick with it for a few games, let the players actually try and develop some understanding. Personally think Lukaku needs some time out of the side, he looks sluggish and honestly, a bit heavy. Would also be happy with a Fred/Pogba/Fellaini midfield for a few games. The big oaf has actually been one of our better players each time he has come on, and Matic did not look at all ready.

 

[Salus Populi Suprema Lex]

My concern is, against Brighton we were awful, and you could see why we lost, no real issue, happens to every big club now and again. But against Spurs, we actually werent bad, we were not the attacking force some posters have made out, but we certainly had a go, and put Spurs on the back foot for periods of the game, but we still lost that game too. If we are losing games when we play 'well', thats a big concern.

It certainly is, and it's because we can't defend. Playing well comes to naught when conceding three goals per game. It's a massive **** up, indeed neglectful, that it wasn't sorted in the summer.

 

[Robbie Boy]

He needs more time IMO.

This is just my opinion so obviously you are free to disagree. However, I think it's possible we got to see the vision for how Jose, Carrick and McKenna want us to try and play. Please ignore the missed chances and the poor defending and just bear with me here. Did you not watch that first half and think "blimey this is much more like it!"? Did it not look like a style of play that was fitting for United at OT and also something you could get behind at last?

Clearly there were quality issues in a few positions that were being filled by stand-in players if this was a system we keep playing in future (e.g. Herrera as a RCB).

You can also see why Jose felt he needed top class experienced CBs to play in that back 3 given that this system leaves us open to the counter. But haven't so many of you been claiming you'd rather lose 3-0 after having a damn good go at the opposition rather than parking the bus and losing 1-0 or getting a 0-0?

Jose may not be the man in the long run, but surely you can all give him until the end of the season IF I am right that this new system we saw last night is going to be the attacking style at last? It may fail, but I've honestly not felt as excited by a United performance in a very long time as i did during the first 50 minutes of that game.

If 3-5-2 is our formation then recruitment of new players can be for that system rather than just buying whichever big name, highly commercial player comes available. Isn't this what Pep and Klopp have done? Did either of them get it right and have a complete 1st eleven in their first season? (And yes I know Jose is in his 3rd season, but this would be his first season of playing this system with these coaches).

Anyway, that's my 2 pence for whatever it's worth.

Good well balanced post and far better than the childish crap like 'Jose haters', 'embarrassing fans' etc.

I definitely see where you're coming from, I just don't agree. Good post, though.