The Mourinho Thread: Should he stay or go? | Sacked
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It's funny with Mourinho that while I'm in no way a fan of his or the kind of football he normally produces, and could totally understand if his players grew tired of him, last night gave me no indication that a revolt was under way. Particularly in the first half your players looked hungry and far more aggressive than usual. Tottenham obviously were the better team and deservedly won, but imagine if you played like that first half every game.
Let's get real. If we keep losing, there will come a point where a vast majority of the fans are lost, dressing room is lost, at which point the board would have to take action.
The results have largely come until now so a lot of us have turned a blind eye that some top attacking players seem to have totally lost their edge.
When the results start slipping there is no defence.
Next two aways will really put the pressure on. We could find we slip 6-9points off even 4th
When the results start slipping there is no defence.
Next two aways will really put the pressure on. We could find we slip 6-9points off even 4th
He has been given time and money, and he has been underwhelming. He has been backed plenty. If he wants to look at someone who was not backed, then it was the guy standing next to him on the touch line yesterday who just spanked him by three goals.
The same logic used to excuse Mourinho basically suggests sacking LVG was a mistake. I mean if it’s deeper than the manager we probably should have just stuck with him.
But I would be surprised if the ones taking this position didn’t want LVG sacked for his ‘management’ of the team. The same ‘management’ that apparently is only part of the problem in the scenario of Mourinho.
Doesn’t follow for me. Seems like a lot of people are bored of the idea of sacking the manager and just want to be different.
But I would be surprised if the ones taking this position didn’t want LVG sacked for his ‘management’ of the team. The same ‘management’ that apparently is only part of the problem in the scenario of Mourinho.
Doesn’t follow for me. Seems like a lot of people are bored of the idea of sacking the manager and just want to be different.
I agree with this. The only caveat is that I don't believe Mourinho is helping himself with either his previous signings or his selections.
Firstly he's signed Lukaku who is not the player to hold up the ball when we play it long. If we need that kind of outlet Fellaini has to be in the team, as unpopular as that is. Secondly in a counter-attacking system you need pacey players who're going to stretch the opposition defense. Again it's factual that Lukaku from a distance covered point of view is one of the poorest in the league.
I think if we're playing a counter attacking game with a central target man we need to have Fellaini in an advanced central position and the likes of Sanchez, Rashford & Lingard alongside him, in addition to very fit and aggressive full-backs (of which again we have solely Shaw at a push, but fingers crossed for Dalot)
You also have to look at our other big money signing in Pogba, who holds onto the ball far too long for us to effectively counter. Again you could see against Tottenham that Herrera and Fred were trying to release the ball quickly which caused Spurs problems (although poor final balls meant this dominance wasn't converted into clear cut chances).
Therefore I think Mourinho has to implement a system that suits our defence now. If that means sometimes dropping Pogba and Lukaku in favour of Rashford and Fellaini until we can sort out defence in January then that's the decision he'll have to make. I think Mourinho is being too proud in putting so
The one thing I would say though is that games turn on key moments and the two key moments I'd point to so far are the two simple chances that have fallen to Lukaku. Both chances would have put us 1-0 up and taking both chances changes these games immeasurably. Instead of pressing hard for a goal and exposing our centre backs, we'd have been protecting a lead which is something the likes of Bailly, Jones & Smalling are absolutely apt at.
I absolutely believe that Lukaku takes those chances and we're on 9 points from 3 games. In this league and in the manner we set up we can't afford to miss these simple chances. It cost us time and time again when Ibra was missing simple chances 16/17 and has already cost us 6 points this season.
I also believe that City for example were a couple of seasons ahead of us in terms of their team and have also spent a lot more. In terms of outfield players they had half a great team when Pep arrived with Silva, De Bruyne, Aguero, Fernandinho & Kompany. It could be argued that Jose on the other hand had literally no great outfield players.
In terms of defence he had Rojo, Jones, Smalling, Shaw, Valencia, Blind & Young. In midfield he had Herrera, Schneiderlin, Schweinsteiger & Fellaini. In attack he had Mata, Depay, Martial, Rashford, Mkhitaryan, Januzaj, Rooney.
Can anyone honestly look at those 18 players and see a single player that any manager would be able to rely on like Pep can rely on Aguero, Silva or Fernandinho? It's literally a mixture of has-beens, never-gonna-be's, decent squad players and a couple of young players with good potential.
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Jose has made the mistake of publicly undermining his defenders.
Ok we know by now that Jones is not reliable, smalling is shit on the ball, but Bailly and Lindelof are two young defenders signed by mourinho with good potential.
Rather than backing them and giving them confidence, he has put them under immense pressure to perform which are not good conditions for young players to prosper.
Ok we know by now that Jones is not reliable, smalling is shit on the ball, but Bailly and Lindelof are two young defenders signed by mourinho with good potential.
Rather than backing them and giving them confidence, he has put them under immense pressure to perform which are not good conditions for young players to prosper.
I hope it is just lousy form. You can play your way out of that.
People on here moan about "entitled fans" but I actually think our fanbase is a very patient one. If Mourinho's United had shown signs of going somewhere, implementing a style of play that you could see was improving step by step, and our players consistently looked like they enjoyed playing for the club and were fighting for the shirt, then I think most people would be inclined to give him time. I know I would. And that's really not a tall order. But he's been here over two years now and despite improving the quality of the squad (not a difficult task given the state of the squad he took over and the amount of money he's spent) we still don't look much better than we did when he took over.
I would be prepared to accept it. There was nothing between Utd, Chelsea, Spurs and Liverpool last season for long periods, we’ve no God-given right to expect to finish above them anymore it has to be earned
I think you could easily argue in terms of experience and quality we have the weakest team amongst the top four candidates yet we finished 2nd. That should buy Jose enough credit for us to believe that we are on the right track
Because if the fallout is bigger the board will realize just how big the task of replacing Ferguson and adding world class players to this squad is.
I'm assuming Jose can get us in the top four but if he can't at least some eyes will be opened and they will do a proper research for the next season.
I recently listened to an interview with a journalist covering United who indicated a couple of things that are different for Jose right now:
1. He has lost Jose Faria, his “good cop” to Mou’s “bad cop”. Faria has been with him since Porto, at every stop. The point is now that Faria is gone, there is no one to balance Mou’s sour negativity and blame game.
2. Mourihno never coaches attacking, only defensive play. His approach in the past was to just buy a few great attackers and let them do what they want (as long as they don’t shirk defensive duties).
I was a Mou supporter, but this interview really changed my view. Maybe his approach is a bit outdated. We need a modern approach to counter the high press and we need an identity on the attacking side.
1. He has lost Jose Faria, his “good cop” to Mou’s “bad cop”. Faria has been with him since Porto, at every stop. The point is now that Faria is gone, there is no one to balance Mou’s sour negativity and blame game.
2. Mourihno never coaches attacking, only defensive play. His approach in the past was to just buy a few great attackers and let them do what they want (as long as they don’t shirk defensive duties).
I was a Mou supporter, but this interview really changed my view. Maybe his approach is a bit outdated. We need a modern approach to counter the high press and we need an identity on the attacking side.
If some of our fans could get this in their heads I would be happy. I've said 50 times when things start to go bad for Jose its a quick path straight down to hell. I don't know why so many people are confident he is going to turn things around, my friends are you really in that deep denial? Imo this season is even worse than his 15-16 season at Chelsea because this time he was actually vetoed by Woodward regarding multiple targets. He's proper pissed this time and his post match interview last night strongly highlighted that. Can't believe some people still think he is the right man after we got smashed against fecking spurs at home and 1 week earlier we concede 3 against Brighton. How much more humiliation do we have to endure before this "super manager" goes? We have to concede 4 against Sheffield Wednesday? Or perhaps get shat on by Carlisle United? When someone like Mourinho who has won everything out there is starting to make the team look like a carbon copy of a Moyes team I think it's time to say goodbye.
Is these threads and the "unconditional support" embarrassment of fans who are part of the reason of our demise. Mourinho is earning a huge sum of money and I am wasting my money paying for cable to watch this crap
Have to say that seeing Mourinho reinforcing that sense of unity/the 'us vs. them' theme (whether it's for show or not), as well as reading this thread, kinda swayed my opinion. I think I want to give him more time and re-evaluate by this season's end, barring extreme circumstances like an awful losing streak or player revolt, of course.
One thing that I heavily disagree with though, is the whole 'if Lukaku scored that...' nonsense. Manchester United shouldn't make that kind pathetic excuse or what-if scenario like some bloody minnow; might as well say 'if this did/didn't happen, we would've beaten Brighton....we would've eliminated Sevilla and won the CL...'
Way I see it: if one or two players under-performed, it's likely the problem with said player/s. If a whole bunch of them under-performed (especially compared to exploits with prior clubs or international teams) and being wildly inconsistent, it's likely the problem with the system. It's the manager's job to fix the system;whether by managing rotations better, changing things up in training session, finding ways to improve mental/psychological aspect, or switching up his own football philosophy if necessary. When that problem's fixed, THEN you get new players, not just splurging money and hope the shiny new signings can somehow become the fix-everything savior. Jose has to be able to do that, or he's gotta go. Simple as that, everything else is just noise.
One thing that I heavily disagree with though, is the whole 'if Lukaku scored that...' nonsense. Manchester United shouldn't make that kind pathetic excuse or what-if scenario like some bloody minnow; might as well say 'if this did/didn't happen, we would've beaten Brighton....we would've eliminated Sevilla and won the CL...'
Way I see it: if one or two players under-performed, it's likely the problem with said player/s. If a whole bunch of them under-performed (especially compared to exploits with prior clubs or international teams) and being wildly inconsistent, it's likely the problem with the system. It's the manager's job to fix the system;whether by managing rotations better, changing things up in training session, finding ways to improve mental/psychological aspect, or switching up his own football philosophy if necessary. When that problem's fixed, THEN you get new players, not just splurging money and hope the shiny new signings can somehow become the fix-everything savior. Jose has to be able to do that, or he's gotta go. Simple as that, everything else is just noise.
I was content to stomach the last few weeks of last season where it felt like we turned up for the big games, looked really half arsed in the other games and just looked completely lost in the FA Cup final, because I thought we were going to have the mooted clear out and getting in 5 players who could turn us around, then the pressure would almost certainly be on him to win stuff otherwise he’s gone next May.
However we’ve started the season like we finished the last season. We turn in a performance against a good team, make the lesser teams look awesome, but now we can’t even turn in a good performance against a good team as demonstrated last night.
However we’ve started the season like we finished the last season. We turn in a performance against a good team, make the lesser teams look awesome, but now we can’t even turn in a good performance against a good team as demonstrated last night.
If the players are playing for him - which it seems is still the case - then Woodward/owners are wrong to not back him further and bring in targets. The playing style on the whole should be better, yes, but does anyone look at our squad on paper and think that we should have won a PL or CL under Mourinho the last 2 years? The results have, largely, been reasonably within expectations.
Did City's owners tell Pep after a 3rd place finish, OK, there's enough money in the squad now so do better with what you have? Or did Liverpool's owners say, sorry you bought Karius so get more out of him? No because that would be silly. If you don't think he's the right guy for the job, fine, get rid of him instead of giving him an extension and have him work on a transfer list and change the coaching squad etc. We make money as a marketing entity but as an organization, we are not maximizing our resources and it's clear the football operations are poorly run. The same problems will be there for Zidane or whoever.
Did City's owners tell Pep after a 3rd place finish, OK, there's enough money in the squad now so do better with what you have? Or did Liverpool's owners say, sorry you bought Karius so get more out of him? No because that would be silly. If you don't think he's the right guy for the job, fine, get rid of him instead of giving him an extension and have him work on a transfer list and change the coaching squad etc. We make money as a marketing entity but as an organization, we are not maximizing our resources and it's clear the football operations are poorly run. The same problems will be there for Zidane or whoever.
Have to start somewhere.
All this media behavior adds additional pressure to him and the club. Why can't he figure that out? He needs to learn to have the conversations out of the public eye. At the minute, his behaviour is an embarrassment.
I'm not convinced the departure is going to happen anytime soon but hey this is football and anything could happen.
The board see things differently to the fans and have to weigh up if they are prepared to sacrifice champions league for continuity of management. I suspect the Glazers will not be prepared to face another season out of the champions league and if Utd are more than say 8-10 points off qualification come the end of November the axe will fall. It could be worse it could be better by then.
Chelsea stuck with Jose for far too long and it cost them Champions league. They did, however, win the league without CL football so it wasn't too much of a disaster. Utd may wish to consider this but as I say the board see things differently.
All the oppo fans will love this thread.
Jose is the new Wenger, outdated, stubborn, arrogant, in denial. Moaning at the press with chants of "but look what I won before"
Whats he stand a chance of winning currently? Not a great deal on this evidence I'd say
We are so far behind in terms of playing style/identity already and with the fractions within the squad its not looking great
Jose has had 3 seasons, multiple windows and we are STILL watching Phil Jones make mistake after mistake costing us dearly. I'm not picking on phil Jones as such, just one of many examples that the quality of our x11 is woeful and he us one of many players that needed upgrading some time ago. I'd add Mata/Darmian/Rojo/Smalling/Valencia/Mata/Fellaini to this list also.
We need to sell and buy some serious quality
Jose lost individual players last season, with his public critique time after time. Shaw is the only positive from this season, and 90% of the CAF wrote him off and wanted him sold prior to the start of this season.
Its evident the players aren't playing for him and its evident the board and him are working off a different philosophy.
Jose wants Martial out, the board don't, etc etc.
We are into his 3rd season, last season had all the warning signs it wasn't really working and here we are after another abysmal window debating whether jose can lead us to the glory days.
He hasn't cracked a smile in 3 years, its just not working out.
We need a clear plan from the board, not a knee jerk reaction.
Poch for next season is my preferred option
Whats he stand a chance of winning currently? Not a great deal on this evidence I'd say
We are so far behind in terms of playing style/identity already and with the fractions within the squad its not looking great
Jose has had 3 seasons, multiple windows and we are STILL watching Phil Jones make mistake after mistake costing us dearly. I'm not picking on phil Jones as such, just one of many examples that the quality of our x11 is woeful and he us one of many players that needed upgrading some time ago. I'd add Mata/Darmian/Rojo/Smalling/Valencia/Mata/Fellaini to this list also.
We need to sell and buy some serious quality
Jose lost individual players last season, with his public critique time after time. Shaw is the only positive from this season, and 90% of the CAF wrote him off and wanted him sold prior to the start of this season.
Its evident the players aren't playing for him and its evident the board and him are working off a different philosophy.
Jose wants Martial out, the board don't, etc etc.
We are into his 3rd season, last season had all the warning signs it wasn't really working and here we are after another abysmal window debating whether jose can lead us to the glory days.
He hasn't cracked a smile in 3 years, its just not working out.
We need a clear plan from the board, not a knee jerk reaction.
Poch for next season is my preferred option
There are lots of threads to love today.
Having said that I still have a soft spot for Jose and it is sad to see what is happening around him. Does he know how to turn this around? I just can't see it today. Maybe Utd will go on a run. They have a few good fixtures now and should get some points. If the "different" attacking style starts to work and the players buy into it things could change quite quickly. We will see over the coming weeks.
Jose is the United manager and to be calling for his head makes us no better than Arsenal or Chelsea fans.
Just my opinion...
Just my opinion...
I understand your concern, but you can't make a prognosis based on 2 matches. You can win playing horribly, and you can lose playing great. There are not many sports where this can happen. But after many years watching football I can tell you this: if you play great 10 games, you may lose 2, but if you play horribly 10 games, you may lose 8. You can have both outcomes either way, but if you play great football, the probabilities of winning are much better.
I didn't want him here to begin with, but here he is. And while he is, he will have my support 100%. Everyone else is constantly attacking him and the team. Media, other clubs fans.. etc. Can't be easy for either Mourinho or the players. Let's keep supporting them. Let's follow the Stretford End's example from last night. That's how its done. Us turning against the manager and players in the middle of a season is never the solution to anything at all.
Haha, touché.
Look, I have always been a big fan of Jose and the summer he signed on with us, I was absolutely buzzing. I couldn't wait to hear him speak for the first time as a United manager as I always had this feeling that he was the perfect fit for us. I know others had the exact opposite opinion, but I admit that he had me really believing that he would bring some joy back to the club.
The first season, all things considered, was quite positive, albeit the football was pretty bland in the second half of the season. Most - myself included - felt that he just needed some minor tweaks that summer to allow him to challenge for the title the following season. I still thought City would win it, but I was hoping we could run them close and then in the third season, the team would be fully his and we would look a good, strong outfit that would push all the way for the title. feck me, the season certainly hasn't started like that but I came into this season not expecting much after a pretty disastrous summer.
I don't feel he will be able to turn this around, I really don't. If he does, then fair fecks but I just can't see it myself.
There is no way Mourinho should be sacked!! As Gary Neville said he was given a new contract and should be allowed to see it out.
It is clear to see that JM should have been backed in the market and we should have made a better attempt to sign a CB. Smalling isn't good enough, Jones is always on the treatment table, Bailly seems to have too many brain-farts but is good enough overall.
Right wing... we were waiting for Bale and it didn't happen in the end. So we need the next best thing there as Mata isn't able to play with the pace we need there.
Fred will be an incredible signing for us, he looks immense already and his level of passing is something we have lacked for a while.
We need changes behind the scenes. Ed should focus on the commercial side and bring in a DOF to replace him. JM is a great world class coach, let him do his thing and he will deliver titles, but he needs better players to compete on all fronts.
It is clear to see that JM should have been backed in the market and we should have made a better attempt to sign a CB. Smalling isn't good enough, Jones is always on the treatment table, Bailly seems to have too many brain-farts but is good enough overall.
Right wing... we were waiting for Bale and it didn't happen in the end. So we need the next best thing there as Mata isn't able to play with the pace we need there.
Fred will be an incredible signing for us, he looks immense already and his level of passing is something we have lacked for a while.
We need changes behind the scenes. Ed should focus on the commercial side and bring in a DOF to replace him. JM is a great world class coach, let him do his thing and he will deliver titles, but he needs better players to compete on all fronts.
I'll back him as long as he's the manager. I'm just sorry he decided to loan out Tuanzebe and Fosu-Mensah because both of those lads could have done a job for us against Spurs.
I think we should stop comparing coaches to Fergie. He was a one off, a legend of the game. There won't be any manager like him ever again. The question is would managers like Pep, Conte or Klopp could have played well with the likes of Jones and Smalling as the CB pairing? Highly doubt it.
After finishing second last season it was expected board will move swiftly to bridge the gap and improve in areas we lacked. Instead just one signing! (i am not counting Dalot as it seems he is on learning license this year). When at the same time chelsea, city and liv have plugged their collective holes. I don't want to take jose's side but the board is equally responsible for all the mess unfold before us as each game pass.
Just like players can get past it, so can managers.. people thinking just because they don't run around they can't "lose it" but they can.
Real Madrid broke Jose Mourinho, and Chelsea finished him off. Put a fork in him he's done.. we have the Mourinho who is physically there but not mentally. We need the Jose of old. Remember the innovative Mourinho who would substituted Joey Cole before half-time because he felt it was best for the team? when is the last time Mourinho done that to Pogba!?
Sadly this seemed a marriage made in heaven (us and Mourinho) but sometimes the reality is different to the fantasy.
I don't see how Mourinho can comeback from this.. the press/media have already decided his fate.. the players are losing confidence in him everyday, he is sleeping in a hotel away from his family must be draining him..
Sadly the club will again react too late when we are mathematically out of the top 4.. this is the problem with this club.. we just react to things AFTER they happen.. how about doing a ballsy decision and sack Mourinho now!? get Zidane in and start playing some proper sexy football.
Real Madrid broke Jose Mourinho, and Chelsea finished him off. Put a fork in him he's done.. we have the Mourinho who is physically there but not mentally. We need the Jose of old. Remember the innovative Mourinho who would substituted Joey Cole before half-time because he felt it was best for the team? when is the last time Mourinho done that to Pogba!?
Sadly this seemed a marriage made in heaven (us and Mourinho) but sometimes the reality is different to the fantasy.
I don't see how Mourinho can comeback from this.. the press/media have already decided his fate.. the players are losing confidence in him everyday, he is sleeping in a hotel away from his family must be draining him..
Sadly the club will again react too late when we are mathematically out of the top 4.. this is the problem with this club.. we just react to things AFTER they happen.. how about doing a ballsy decision and sack Mourinho now!? get Zidane in and start playing some proper sexy football.
He's still the best manager available to us. Frustrating as the start to the season has been, you can't sack him after three games. Let's see where we are at Christmas.
I can live with us not winning. I'm not exactly happy about it but I can live with it. However, if we are not going to win I want to be entertained. In the 70s under Tommy Docherty we scarcely won anything and even managed to get relegated but the Doc's sides were bloody entertaining. If Mourinho is going to stay he is going to have to take the shackles off some of his players. I can live with not winning. I can live with not being entertained. I can't live with both.
How?
It's a perfectly reasonable opinion to hold. We can't not express our views about the manager because Chelsea and Arsenal fans wanted their managers sacked. Each situation is unique.
What people need to realise is that, anyone, I mean every fecking team in the prem can beat us away from home right now. There's no team we could play right now and you'd be even 80% sure we'd win. Its the same way I felt under Moyes
He was asked last night if he knew what his best defenders were. His reply, no.
The tipping point has been reached. He's given it just over 2 years. Hundreds of millions later we are back to square one.
I've been there mate and it still might not happen. But this is the problem for the fans. The uncertainty of what is going to or not going to happen next, the uncertainty of not really knowing what is happening in the dressing room. It is really early in the season and those two defeats on the bounce must really hurt but you have to keep the faith. I kept the faith with Jose right up to the end and when the axe fell I felt the players had let him down badly. The months leading up to the axe were purgatory. Was it the players? Was it Jose? It split the fans right down the middle because we felt Jose was here to stay this time. Slowly, slowly the fans changed but in the stadium the fans chanted his name regularly. He was a cult hero at Stamford Bridge and the fans loved him. In the end I think everybody knew he had to go but they just bring themselves to say it out loud. People were blaming players like Costa,Hazard, Willian and Pedro for being no good when it now is quite obvious that they are top quality players who just stopped performing. The full story has never really come out and people just say he lost the dressing room. Whatever that means.
Good luck. If he turns this around it will be his biggest achievement.
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