The Mourinho Thread: Should he stay or go? | Sacked

[TsuWave]

Of course you don't have an answer.

you're coming off like a lunatic.

So what was said?

this was our exchange:

And we have made progress through those 2 years. Then someone decided our CB's are good enough, and now we're seeing they're garbage.

you mean the CB's that Mourinho bought, a season ago?

this supposed progress we made is looking shaky to me. We stumbled our way to second, greatly due to our GK having a freakishly good season. We were never convincing. Again, 3rd year and still lacking basic competence, I mean, look at the way we play both attacking and defensively.

This supposed progress hill that people are willing to die on, really ain't it.

and this is what you got from it:

So our GK is responsible for our improvent? Ok

You seriously think that only Ddg is reaponsible for our improvement?

you either obtuse or can't read. maybe a mix of both.

 

[Janson]

Yes, Jose.

Well yeah, there was obviously a problem there. The point is Conte inherited a team capable of winning the league and Jose didn't. See what happened when Conte lost Matic and Costa.

 

[Reapersoul20]

No manager we brings in improves us this season. So we may as well stay with him til at least the end of this season.

 

[Dorian Gray]

From a purely objective point-of-view - It will be counter-productive to fire Mourinho at this point. Simply because you do not have anyone that will be a such a remarkable upgrade on Mourinho that he can take up this current squad mid-season and perform wonders. As fans, you should back up the manager and the squad and hope for the best.

However, I do disagree with people defending Mourinho with 'It is not him, it is the players' or 'He wasn't backed in the transfer market'. I mean come on! There is no doubt that Mourinho is under-performing.
As a manager, it is his core job to get the best out of his players and improve them. If he is not able to do that, it is his fault. Also, regarding the spending, it can be an excuse for not being able to compete with City but it is not as if he has not spent or brought in players he wanted. Considering he has had the money and the time to revamp the squad, if United are still bogged down by mediocrity, then the fault lies, at least partly, with Mourinho.

FB - Dalot
CB - Baily, Lindelof
Midfiled - Pogba, Matic, Fred
Attack - Mkhi, Zlatan, Lukaku, Sanchez

These are his big money signings. All of them brought in for the first XI. (Except for Dalot maybe). Like it or not, the current squad is a Mourinho squad.

 

[Kapardin]

How many more signings does Mourinho need before he actually manages to improve some of them? I'm finding it hard to name a single signing that has improved under him. Guardiola and Klopp have had failed signings but they also had successful ones along the way. I find it hard to believe that Alderweireld was the one missing piece of the puzzle when there are multiple issues all over the pitch.

Plus Pep and Klopp improved the players they inherited. Sterling, Otamendi, Firmino, Lovren etc look like a decent fit for their system despite the deficiencies some of them may have.

Furthermore, Klopp's signings that didn't work out were low priced, and most of them were meant to be subs bar Karius. His successful signings have had huge impact, especially Mane, Salah and VvD who have transformed their defense and offense. Jose's successes have been Lukaku, Matic and Pogba and even these haven't been the absolute hits that the Liverpool or City signings have been, but only middling successes mingled with inconsistency.

In the case of Pep, well, even assuming he can buy who he wants, we can't reasonably expect to operate like the Sheikh who can dish out millions of dollars with a flick of his hand. Pep's case is unique, City's owners are a bottomless pit of money and so his freedom cannot be compared with other clubs.

 

[groovyalbert]

I am neither In or Out. My opinion is that 50% of the problem lies with Jose and how he coaches the team, and the other 50% with Ed and the transfer policy. Ultimately, coaching deficiencies can be compensated by world class personnel and average players can be compensated by strong coaching. If after 4 years of LvG and Jose, if we still have a shit squad and no coaching identity, then we are not even a proper football team yet and the problems are everywhere.

So, if Jose stays, fine, back him in January and do something to improve the squad to make up for his coaching deficiencies. If Jose leaves, get in a manager who can coach these players well. The first half of the game showed that we can be quick and proactive on the pitch if we are arsed. So make that a regular feature of our play by drilling it into the players. Then, back the new manager in January.

The reason why I am reluctant to openly say "Jose Out" is because we went through a similar routine with LvG. I was pretty much LvG out since the Wolfsburg loss and thought Jose would turn things around. But now we can see that Jose is only a part of the problem - where is the guarantee that we won't have a shit transfer window under the next manager, say, Zidane, and this time in two years are calling for his head?

Our best bet is that if we sack Jose, we get a coach like Sarri who is able to adapt to a limited transfer budget just in case Ed interferes and vetoes his signings in one summer or the other. If Zidane can do that, I am quite happy. Otherwise, I don't mind if Jose continues as the problems won't go away by bringing in another manager who needs signings to make an impact as opposed to coaching the current squad.



Pretty much all of them. Lindelof was scouted by him as well.

I'm not so certain. I think Ibra certainly was, and you're probably right about Lindelof. But Pogba had Ed written all over it, and I think Mkhi was a result of jumping into bed with Mino that summer.

Lukaku and Matic were certainly Mourinho's signings, but Sanchez seemed an opportunistic move by the board/marketing team. Obviously, he has the potential to be an excellent signing for us, but he's hardly a Mourinho player (high risk taker, sloppy in possession but capable of game-changing brilliance).

Too soon to tell with this summer's signings, but taking into consideration the players Jose probably did want us to add (Alderweireld, Willian, Perisic), we'd be looking like much more of a Mourinho outfit with them around.

 

[Cassidy]

Well yeah, there was obviously a problem there. The point is Conte inherited a team capable of winning the league and Jose didn't. See what happened when Conte lost Matic and Costa.

Yes they were not replaced and Conte lost it. The point is Jose took a team capable of winning the league, and made them look like relegation candidates.

 

[MalcolmTucker]

They actively stopped playing for him, simple. That was not their real level.

You're basically the Mourinho version of Cal.

The fact that the Chelsea players stopped playing for Mourinho as an excuse for why Conte won the league isn't a plus point for Mourinho.

Mourinho has spent £400m and broke the world record for most expensive transfer 2 years ago, as well as paying ridiculous wages for Zlatan and Sanchez. He has been backed but we've yet to see a coherent playing style, nor have we ever had a consistent starting 11 in over 2 years. He is lost.

Please tell us what we have to look forward to if he stays and he's backed? Tell us what type of side he's building? What are his pros at this stage? you must have a long list of pros because I can tell you most of us have a very comprehensive list of cons.

 

[roonster09]

There is no way the players just turned garbage right after winning the league. There was a lot more to it.

Yes and everyone knows the reason.

 

[MoskvaRed]

No manager we brings in improves us this season. So we may as well stay with him til at least the end of this season.

It depends how bad things get - if he is ranting at the media every week and the players give up (we are not at that point yet), it might be better to appoint a caretaker while we identify Mourinho’s permanent successor.

 

[Dorian Gray]

Klopp signed Van Dijk and Robertson who have improved the defence. Mane and Salah have stepped up under him. Chamberlain, Milner and Henderson all improved under him. Firminho looked to be a flop under Brenton, Klopp improved him. Majority of Klopps signing have been good besides the odd one. The same can be said about Pep. Where as with Mourinho can you really say majority of his signings have been good? It’s not just the signings. Both managers improved players that were in the squad too. Only player Mourinho has improved is Lingard.

Karius was the biggest mistake for Klopp, but he only cost £12m. If Lindelof cost that much we could have shipped him out this year.

Not really very important - but Karius cost 6m euros.

 

[Janson]

you're coming off like a lunatic.



this was our exchange:





and this is what you got from it:






you either obtuse or can't read. maybe a mix of both.

"Greatly do to our GK" was what you said. Which implies it was mostly because of our GK. If you are that deluded to cling on to that as evidence that we haven't progressed, then I don't see a reason to continue this discussion.

 

[TsuWave]

No manager we brings in improves us this season.

where are you getting this from?

 

[Cassidy]

I'm not so certain. I think Ibra certainly was, and you're probably right about Lindelof. But Pogba had Ed written all over it, and I think Mkhi was a result of jumping into bed with Mino that summer.

Lukaku and Matic were certainly Mourinho's signings, but Sanchez seemed an opportunistic move by the board/marketing team. Obviously, he has the potential to be an excellent signing for us, but he's hardly a Mourinho player (high risk taker, sloppy in possession but capable of game-changing brilliance).

Too soon to tell with this summer's signings, but taking into consideration the players Jose probably did want us to add (Alderweireld, Willian, Perisic), we'd be looking like much more of a Mourinho outfit with them around.

Despite Jose having a meltdown at Chelsea the previous summer when they failed to sign him.
Woodward doesn't pick the players.

 

[spiriticon]

I'm not a big fan of sacking anybody 3 games into the season, even if I think he is a cancer. There is a proper time and manner to do things.

I'm here, for now. Even with our current squad we should be finishing above Spurs and Arsenal, at least. Its the very lowest expectation of Jose.

 

[Massive Spanner]

No manager we brings in improves us this season. So we may as well stay with him til at least the end of this season.

They may not but at least they can set their foundations in place earlier.

Klopp took over Liverpool around October/November and whilst he didn't really improve their league position he did show signs that he was integrating his style of play which definitely helped them to adjust to it better the following seasons.

For me it's pointless keeping Mourinho now because he won't win anything and he won't do anything that will help us or our players either, and he's far more likely to go to full meltdown mode than turn things around now. At least a new manager will have a solid 7 or 8 months to start integrating themselves.

 

[JoaquinJoaquin]

He has got 5 more games for me. If we see no change then he simply has to go, as much as I like the guy.

 

[TsuWave]

"Greatly do to our GK" was what you said. Which implies it was mostly because of our GK. If you are that deluded to cling on to that as evidence that we haven't progressed, then I don't see a reason to continue this discussion.

good. because having to baby you and your inadequate reading and comprehension skills was starting to bore me. move along.

 

[Kapardin]

I'm not so certain. I think Ibra certainly was, and you're probably right about Lindelof. But Pogba had Ed written all over it, and I think Mkhi was a result of jumping into bed with Mino that summer.

Lukaku and Matic were certainly Mourinho's signings, but Sanchez seemed an opportunistic move by the board/marketing team. Obviously, he has the potential to be an excellent signing for us, but he's hardly a Mourinho player (high risk taker, sloppy in possession but capable of game-changing brilliance).

Too soon to tell with this summer's signings, but taking into consideration the players Jose probably did want us to add (Alderweireld, Willian, Perisic), we'd be looking like much more of a Mourinho outfit with them around.

When Jose was at Chelsea, he compared Pogba to the Eiffel Tower and claimed that just as he cannot buy the Eiffel Tower despite coveting it, he cannot buy Pogba. In his last season, he urged Chelsea to make bids for Pogba.

Pogba, on the face of it, is a typical Jose midfielder. That he is sloppy is something Jose didn't expect.

Sanchez was also advocated by Mourinho who was getting disillusioned with Martial. The leaks suggested that Jose had sworn to Ed that he would not ask for a RW in the summer if Sanchez was signed. That obviously changed after Sanchez flopped of course. Again, Sanchez is a typical Jose workhorse.

Jose said he himself had scouted and bought Mkhi.

Ed prefers Galacticos, but he does not usually buy them without the wholehearted approval of the manager. Even sold AdM when LvG wanted the sale. Martial was bought before Jose came, and so Ed sticking by him is a different matter.

 

[Cassidy]

No manager we brings in improves us this season. So we may as well stay with him til at least the end of this season.

You don't think another manager could beat Brighton with these players?

 

[Janson]

Youe've yet to see a coherent playing style, nor have we ever had a consistent starting 11 in over

You're basically the Mourinho version of Cal.

The fact that the Chelsea players stopped playing for Mourinho as an excuse for why Conte won the league isn't a plus point for Mourinho.

Mourinho has spent £400m and broke the world record for most expensive transfer 2 years ago, as well as paying ridiculous wages for Zlatan and Sanchez. He has been backed but we've yet to see a coherent playing style, nor have we ever had a consistent starting 11 in over 2 years. He is lost.

Please tell us what we have to look forward to if he stays and he's backed? Tell us what type of side he's building? What are his pros at this stage? you must have a long list of pros because I can tell you most of us have a very comprehensive list of cons.

Yeah I've heard all of this before, how much he spent and so on. And that's how we improved, simple. And if he kept being backed, we would likely continue to improve.

I don't care what type of side he's building, ad long as we're improving results wise. Don't give a flying feck about attacking football.

 

[SteveCoppellFan]

He brings most of this on himself so he gets zero sympathy from me.

He has openly criticized virtually every defender and shows little faith in any of them and chops and changes every time one does a mistake.

Its little wonder our defenders are all over the shop.

Im not sure how anyone can defend him these days as he is just a manager that is living off past glories.

 

[Bojan11]

People need to look at it like this.

Klopp got a midfield consisting of Chamberlain, Milner and Henderson in a champions league final. He is getting the best out of average players who are playing amazing for him.

Pep made Delph and Otamendi look like world beaters last year.

So come on why can’t Jose do that? Why does it need to be new signings or sulk?Why is it three seasons down the line and Lingard only one he improved and even that’s a bit overhyping it. Everyone else has regressed. I would say Smalling even was better under LVG.

You don’t need a team of world class players to do the basics right. When we go to the final third we slow it down to snail pace then put a shitty little cross in because we have no plan.

 

[Ban]

How many more signings does Mourinho need before he actually manages to improve some of them? I'm finding it hard to name a single signing that has improved under him. Guardiola and Klopp have had failed signings but they also had successful ones along the way. I find it hard to believe that Alderweireld was the one missing piece of the puzzle when there are multiple issues all over the pitch.

It's simple than if the board doesn't trust him let him go. But problems at this club run far deeper. Unfortunately many fans see just to surface and think afere letting the hated Jose go we will see sunlight.

Also we made an improvement results wide and I'm not buying into its been all that to DDG and that we somehow stumbled onto that position.

It's a bad situation, he needs a player, doesn't get it, fails and it's all down to him while Ed wiggles his way out of it.

 

[Suv666]

Can't see him turning this mess around. The 3rd season implosion seems inevitable. Don't understand why the board refused to back him, it would surely cost more if we miss out on CL. Seen it before at Chelsea, if Mou dosen't get what he wants the results start dwindling. Pretty sure the board wanted to get rid of Mourinho, this just dosen't seem like the right way to go about it.
Also if Mourinho is sacked would love to see some heads roll at the board level too. Yeah sure Mou's signings haven't been a huge hit and the football is has been tumescent but Woody and Co aren't exactly blameless. Just can't figure out why they didnt back him its a fecking joke. Haven't seen a more poorly run club at this level. Reckon we shouldn't wait like we usually do and sack him if he cant turn it around in 4-5 games. Maybe give to Giggsy or someone and atleast try to salvage the season.

 

[groovyalbert]

For those wanting Jose out, who realistically could come in and change things right now?

I'm not for getting rid of Jose, but I wouldn't lose sleep if he left. I just don't know what it would realistically achieve at the moment.

 

[Judas]

No manager we brings in improves us this season. So we may as well stay with him til at least the end of this season.

That bollocks and the sort of attitude which saw us stick with LVG when it was very clear his time was up. If you don't think someone else could come in and get this lot looking like a team with an actual plan, you're mad.

 

[Judas]

For those wanting Jose out, who realistically could come in and change things right now?

I'm not for getting rid of Jose, but I wouldn't lose sleep if he left. I just don't know what it would realistically achieve at the moment.

Lift the doom and gloom around the club would be something, it's just depressing and negative, everything about the club at the moment is wrong.

I want some positivity from somewhere.

 

[Suv666]

It's simple than if the board doesn't trust him let him go. But problems at this club run far deeper. Unfortunately many fans see just to surface and think afere letting the hated Jose go we will see sunlight.

Yeah we need some change uptop this is ridiculous its like a fecking circus. Just changing the managers wouldn't suffice. We need a massive overhaul from top to bottom.

 

[L1nk]

I'll say it again, if Woodward wasn't going to back Mourinho in the summer, he should of got rid of him in the summer, and we could of got Tuchel, we missed out.

 

[dove]

Yeah we need some change uptop this is ridiculous its like a fecking circus. Just changing the managers wouldn't suffice. We need a massive overhaul from top to bottom.

Or in Woodward's own words, "disneyland".

 

[Dorian Gray]

They may not but at least they can set their foundations in place earlier.

Klopp took over Liverpool around October/November and whilst he didn't really improve their league position he did show signs that he was integrating his style of play which definitely helped them to adjust to it better the following seasons.

For me it's pointless keeping Mourinho now because he won't win anything and he won't do anything that will help us or our players either, and he's far more likely to go to full meltdown mode than turn things around now. At least a new manager will have a solid 7 or 8 months to start integrating themselves.

But that is because there was a massive difference in competency and past record between Rodgers and Klopp! I don't see anyone who can be a Klopp to Mourinho's Rodgers currently. Whoever you appoint mid-season would most probably be a caretaker of sorts.

The bold part is a good point if you appoint someone with a long-term view, but then as a fanbase, you guys should be ready to just write off this season in terms of results and only focus on the style of play.

 

[paulscholes18]

Can't wait for him to go. He's always been a cnut. But even I think it would be ridiculous to sack anyone 3 games into a season.

We need to start looking at replacements now and get someone in for next season.

Palace sacked Frank De Boer after 4 games, the sooner we sack him the more of our season can be saved

 

[MalcolmTucker]

Yeah I've heard all of this before, how much he spent and so on. And that's how we improved, simple. And if he kept being backed, we would likely continue to improve.

I don't care what type of side he's building, ad long as we're improving results wise. Don't give a flying feck about attacking football.

So what you're saying is basically you can't answer those basic questions and if we were to spend another 200m+ we would improve our results.. well no shit, but i still couldn't see us winning the league or the CL under Mourinho with Alderwield, Maguire, Sandro so what's the point?

If you don't care about attacking football then you don't really understand what Man Utd as a club stands for.

 

[Massive Spanner]

But that is because there was a massive difference in competency and past record between Rodgers and Klopp! I don't see anyone who can be a Klopp to Mourinho's Rodgers currently. Whoever you appoint mid-season would most probably be a caretaker of sorts.

The bold part is a good point if you appoint someone with a long-term view, but then as a fanbase, you guys should be ready to just write off this season in terms of results and only focus on the style of play.

Right but that was literally the crux of my entire point. Obviously you'd have to hire a manager with a long-term view.

 

[Janson]

good. because having to baby you and your inadequate reading and comprehension skills was starting to bore me. move along.

Yeah keep going with attacking the poster instead of adressing the matter. You still don't have an answer. Next time, when you make a statement, think about the fact that you might get called out on it.

 

[PlayerOne]

People need to look at it like this.

Klopp got a midfield consisting of Chamberlain, Milner and Henderson in a champions league final. He is getting the best out of average players who are playing amazing for him.

Pep made Delph and Otamendi look like world beaters last year.

So come on why can’t Jose do that? Why does it need to be new signings or sulk?Why is it three seasons down the line and Lingard only one he improved and even that’s a bit overhyping it. Everyone else has regressed. I would say Smalling even was better under LVG.

You don’t need a team of world class players to do the basics right. When we go to the final third we slow it down to snail pace then put a shitty little cross in because we have no plan.

Don't even need to go that far, just look at what Poch did with Lucas. Looked liked a flop last season, but he moved his position and he looks like a real steal now. Even managed to get a good performance out of players who wanted to leave in the summer, but Jose can't even get close to doing the same with his signings. But it's all Ed's fault, poor Jose.

 

[mancan92]

There is no way the players just turned garbage right after winning the league. There was a lot more to it.

Yeah Jose didn't get what he wanted, acted a dick , players got sick of him, players lost confidence and results followed. He doesn't learn from his mistakes at all

 

[ants7]

Absolutely nothing in the Jose's history supports the fact that once he's lost the dressing room and even worse - the board, he can turn it around. Has any manager actually ever done this?

I do feel a bit for Jose but I'm afraid that this marriage simply doesn't work and it's not worth to waste each other time. I'm far from even dreaming of the premier league title but I simply doesn't want another year outside of Champions League.

 

[OneUnited24]

Palace sacked Frank De Boer after 4 games, the sooner we sack him the more of our season can be saved

We won't. As a club we potter about too much. Ed will stick with him for a season - of this i'm sure