I was defending Mourinho yesterday, but I think that sleep has knocked some sense into me. Poch in please lads.
The Mourinho Thread: Should he stay or go? | Sacked
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It took Conte 5 seconds to turn Mourinhos mess into title winners by simply switching to 3 at the back. Conte was cruising there until Chelsea didn't want to fork out and properly replace Matic and Costa.
Jose will never switch to a back 3 to stop the rot simply because it's all about him and about how he can prove a point to Ed that a defender should have been bought. When Jose downs tools he has shown he doesn't care if he drags a club into the gutter until he gets his 30 million severance money. Matic might have to be moved back into central defence. Bailey, Matic and Rojo in a 3 could possibly save our season but Jose will stick to trying combinations in a 2 that he knows won't work to get back at Ed
Jose will never switch to a back 3 to stop the rot simply because it's all about him and about how he can prove a point to Ed that a defender should have been bought. When Jose downs tools he has shown he doesn't care if he drags a club into the gutter until he gets his 30 million severance money. Matic might have to be moved back into central defence. Bailey, Matic and Rojo in a 3 could possibly save our season but Jose will stick to trying combinations in a 2 that he knows won't work to get back at Ed
You say there are other factors other than just Jose but then list 50% of your points which are directly related to Jose
He wanted centre backs, he got Lindelof and Bailly on top of the many he already had. Last year the best partnership was Jones/Rojo who he didn't sign. He improved them but they're injury prone. He needs to improve the ones he has rather than keep buying more.
He wanted central midfielders, he got the very best in Pogba and Matic and he's added Fred.
He wanted a winger, he got Alexis Sanchez.
He wanted a striker, he got Lukaku.
If he can't do anything with these players on top of having one of top 3 keepers in the world then clearly he is finished.
He wanted central midfielders, he got the very best in Pogba and Matic and he's added Fred.
He wanted a winger, he got Alexis Sanchez.
He wanted a striker, he got Lukaku.
If he can't do anything with these players on top of having one of top 3 keepers in the world then clearly he is finished.
So Bailly who started the season badly and Rojo most fans gave up on would save our season?
I am neither In or Out. My opinion is that 50% of the problem lies with Jose and how he coaches the team, and the other 50% with Ed and the transfer policy. Ultimately, coaching deficiencies can be compensated by world class personnel and average players can be compensated by strong coaching. If after 4 years of LvG and Jose, if we still have a shit squad and no coaching identity, then we are not even a proper football team yet and the problems are everywhere.
So, if Jose stays, fine, back him in January and do something to improve the squad to make up for his coaching deficiencies. If Jose leaves, get in a manager who can coach these players well. The first half of the game showed that we can be quick and proactive on the pitch if we are arsed. So make that a regular feature of our play by drilling it into the players. Then, back the new manager in January.
The reason why I am reluctant to openly say "Jose Out" is because we went through a similar routine with LvG. I was pretty much LvG out since the Wolfsburg loss and thought Jose would turn things around. But now we can see that Jose is only a part of the problem - where is the guarantee that we won't have a shit transfer window under the next manager, say, Zidane, and this time in two years are calling for his head?
Our best bet is that if we sack Jose, we get a coach like Sarri who is able to adapt to a limited transfer budget just in case Ed interferes and vetoes his signings in one summer or the other. If Zidane can do that, I am quite happy. Otherwise, I don't mind if Jose continues as the problems won't go away by bringing in another manager who needs signings to make an impact as opposed to coaching the current squad.
Pretty much all of them. Lindelof was scouted by him as well.
So, if Jose stays, fine, back him in January and do something to improve the squad to make up for his coaching deficiencies. If Jose leaves, get in a manager who can coach these players well. The first half of the game showed that we can be quick and proactive on the pitch if we are arsed. So make that a regular feature of our play by drilling it into the players. Then, back the new manager in January.
The reason why I am reluctant to openly say "Jose Out" is because we went through a similar routine with LvG. I was pretty much LvG out since the Wolfsburg loss and thought Jose would turn things around. But now we can see that Jose is only a part of the problem - where is the guarantee that we won't have a shit transfer window under the next manager, say, Zidane, and this time in two years are calling for his head?
Our best bet is that if we sack Jose, we get a coach like Sarri who is able to adapt to a limited transfer budget just in case Ed interferes and vetoes his signings in one summer or the other. If Zidane can do that, I am quite happy. Otherwise, I don't mind if Jose continues as the problems won't go away by bringing in another manager who needs signings to make an impact as opposed to coaching the current squad.
Pretty much all of them. Lindelof was scouted by him as well.
Conte had a team that already played similar football. While Jose had a major rebuild on his hands. Surely you can see the difference.
Your stat doesn't take any of the circumstances into account. EL was just an example.
100% this! Pep had 4 FBs his first season and they sold/let them leave and bought 3 new shiny FBs for around 100 million in total. Bought in Stones for 50 million, didn't think he was good enough so they bought Laporte for 75 millions. His board is backing him 100%, if he want a player they will pay whatever it takes to get them pretty much. Mou wasn't happy with his CBs so the board should have just went out and bought the one he wanted if they wanted Mou to stay. This is not Mou's fault, the club have been run badly since Sir Alex left..
1. Zlatan - Only reason he signed was beacause Jose was ManUtd manager
2. Bailly
3. Mkhitaryan -
4. Pogba - Jose wanted him even when he was at Chelsea but said deal was impossible. ManUtd made it happen for him.
5. Lindelof
Jose's mouthpiece reporting that Lindelof was first in list of CBs Jose wanted and it was reported 6 months before we signed the player
https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/...victor-9377256
6. Lukaku
7. Matic
So safe to say almost all the players were his signings. This summer we signed Fred, Duncan Castles also reported in Jan that Jose wants to sign the player as he see him as the missing link.
I still have faith in Jose at the moment. It didn't look like the players didn't want to play for him, so I believe he can still turn it around. It also doesn't look like he stopped caring or anything.
I think the problem is in how the club is run higher up. Mourinho realized what was needed to improve the squad but he wasn't backed by the club. Woodward looks so incompetent when it comes to transfers, and that's what's costing us.
The way Jose deals with things in public though, is probably what will get him sacked in the end.
I think the problem is in how the club is run higher up. Mourinho realized what was needed to improve the squad but he wasn't backed by the club. Woodward looks so incompetent when it comes to transfers, and that's what's costing us.
The way Jose deals with things in public though, is probably what will get him sacked in the end.
Woodward should go too.
Woodward deserves to go more.
Woodward deserves to go more.
No they didn't play similar football. Conte started with 4 at the back and lost few games, then adjusted his tactics to 3 at the back and never looked back in that season.
Indeed, didn't realise Jose usually played a 343...
Always lovely with a postive focused thread!
I actually regained a lot of believe after seeing the first half, if we can reproduce that kind of energy in every match going forward, I genuinely believe we can be the strike force we should be.
The second half though...
It is clear that we desperately need reinforcement on CB already in January..
I actually regained a lot of believe after seeing the first half, if we can reproduce that kind of energy in every match going forward, I genuinely believe we can be the strike force we should be.
The second half though...
It is clear that we desperately need reinforcement on CB already in January..
Exactly.
Klopp took over Liverpool in midseason and first game they drew 0-0 against Spurs but it was very obvious that the team was playing Klopp's style. Very high work rate and matched Spurs in distance covered.
Sarri too over Chelsea and from the very first game there is obvious change in style.
Same with Poch and Spurs. No longer "lads it's Spurs".
This season. You mean these 3 games?
Yeah sure, it was all Ddg, keep believing that.
Well Jones and Smalling simply as bad as it gets. Maybe Smalling or Jones could look slightly better in a 3. Bailey been terrible but I'd still have him ahead of Jones and Smalling. Rojo terrible also but in a 3 I'd have ahead of Jones and Smalling.
We've had 2 years of pretty awful football under him.. And I keep thinking he should be doing better with the players he has.. I mean, Martial, Rashford, Mata, Sanchez, Lingard, Lukaku... Can a cohesive, dangerous attack really not be created from this lot?
And are our defenders really as bad as they seem? I dunno, I just don't see it. I see a backline of experienced internationals, but they look like pub players sometimes.
And the midfield is jam packed with quality now. Pogba, Matic, Fred (who really looks a player), Herrera...
He should be doing better. And maybe I should be calling for him to go.. And perhaps it would be good for him to go if there was a top replacement being lined up. But I like him. He knows his stuff. We're not winning anything this season regardless of what happens, so he should get at least until December, and if it's still a shambles I'm sure he'll move on. But I don't think it will be a shambles.
And are our defenders really as bad as they seem? I dunno, I just don't see it. I see a backline of experienced internationals, but they look like pub players sometimes.
And the midfield is jam packed with quality now. Pogba, Matic, Fred (who really looks a player), Herrera...
He should be doing better. And maybe I should be calling for him to go.. And perhaps it would be good for him to go if there was a top replacement being lined up. But I like him. He knows his stuff. We're not winning anything this season regardless of what happens, so he should get at least until December, and if it's still a shambles I'm sure he'll move on. But I don't think it will be a shambles.
They were near relegation beceuse they didn't play for the manager. I can't believe we're going over this again. That was already a winning team and Mourinho made them into it.
I've never really liked Mourinho and didn't want him to become our manager. Don't like his demenaor and style of play Not a great fan of the way the club has been run in the last few years and then kind of signings we've made.
But having said all that yesterday watching him stand alone and applaud the Stretford End shifted something in me. It's quite possible that it was all a show by Jose for the cameras but I still saw determination in the man's eyes. Another reason I think it was genuine was his lashing out at the press after the match, if he was playing for the cameras he wouldn't have had a kind of meltdown.
I think what we are seeing are genuine emotions from him. He has the determination to turn it around but he just doesn't know how at the moment. We lambast our players for not caring enough and not showing enough determination, let's not turn our back on our manager when he still has that bit of fire in him.
We are not gonna win the league this season and the worst that's gonna happen is we don't qualify for the CL, but we've already shown that we can still attract top players and managers even without CL. I can't believe I'm saying this but I'm in the Mourinho In camp. Let's give the guy a chance to turn it around and see if he still has that something special left in him.
But having said all that yesterday watching him stand alone and applaud the Stretford End shifted something in me. It's quite possible that it was all a show by Jose for the cameras but I still saw determination in the man's eyes. Another reason I think it was genuine was his lashing out at the press after the match, if he was playing for the cameras he wouldn't have had a kind of meltdown.
I think what we are seeing are genuine emotions from him. He has the determination to turn it around but he just doesn't know how at the moment. We lambast our players for not caring enough and not showing enough determination, let's not turn our back on our manager when he still has that bit of fire in him.
We are not gonna win the league this season and the worst that's gonna happen is we don't qualify for the CL, but we've already shown that we can still attract top players and managers even without CL. I can't believe I'm saying this but I'm in the Mourinho In camp. Let's give the guy a chance to turn it around and see if he still has that something special left in him.
Thats all good but I don't think they would save our season.
They had the players to contend for the league, we did not. You really think the 3 at the back thing took them from where they were the year before to league winners?
I still have faith in Jose. He is the best qualified man for the job and despite a poor preseason and nightmare start to the season, he deserves the whole campaign/until CL qualification becomes impossible, due to his track record and what we have done with previous managers. We simply have top sign a CB in January though, pay whatever it takes, we need a leader who can organise the defence.
Same players didn't perform well for Jose. Tell me what was the reason then. Why the same players didn't play well for Jose, but did very well for Conte.
Btw, change to back 3 was very big factor in Chelsea winning the league.
Nobody could figure out their formation or how to play against it, it wasn't just the 3 at the back, it would the double attack with a wing back and a winger on each flank.
Yes they had quality players, by the way, so do we.
They actively stopped playing for him, simple. That was not their real level.
If we took our 1st half chances that would have been a totally different story. I actually liked watching Utd for 45 minutes last night. Its has been a while since I said that.
To throw my two cents in there, I'm not Jose out yet. I am very wary of this season being another Chelsea 2015/16, but he does deserve time to turn things around. I think we are better than we are showing currently and once a bit of the media madness dies down a bit we can build up a bit of rhythm. No one expected us to win the league this year so I don't think Jose should be sacked just for that reason.
I also think not backing him in the transfer market looks very foolish now; if you're going to keep him, then invest in his project.
I also think not backing him in the transfer market looks very foolish now; if you're going to keep him, then invest in his project.
It wasn't just players then decided "ok Jose is gone, we will play to our level".
Chelsea were lucky in first 2 matches with Costa getting lucky with cards. After that lost against Arsenal and Chelsea, then Conte switched to back 3, teams couldn't figure out how to stop them.
Alonso played as wingback and very important role in the attack.
If they don't act soon they may as well write off their Champions League chances. Chelsea, City, Spurs and Liverpool won't hang around, they will all keep beating teams week in week out.
If we get a new manager/coach in now it might lift the current squad and it also gives him time to work on the transfers he will want for the next window.
If we get a new manager/coach in now it might lift the current squad and it also gives him time to work on the transfers he will want for the next window.
It’s just not working anymore, is it? Can anybody possibly see him turning this around?
The complaints about not getting his signings are moot when we finished above Spurs last season, they bought no-one in the summer, and have now stuffed us 3-0 at Old Trafford. So he keeps pointing at the league table from last season and saying we’re better than media darlings Liverpool and Spurs, and the league table proves it. Yet we just got beaten by a team that didn’t add to their squad. Is this not adding up to anyone else??? He sounds like he’s lost the plot. I don’t give a crap about what he won 5, 10 years ago. We brought him here to bring in the title, not so we could boast about having a manager who has won it previous. He’s proper doing by head in.
The complaints about not getting his signings are moot when we finished above Spurs last season, they bought no-one in the summer, and have now stuffed us 3-0 at Old Trafford. So he keeps pointing at the league table from last season and saying we’re better than media darlings Liverpool and Spurs, and the league table proves it. Yet we just got beaten by a team that didn’t add to their squad. Is this not adding up to anyone else??? He sounds like he’s lost the plot. I don’t give a crap about what he won 5, 10 years ago. We brought him here to bring in the title, not so we could boast about having a manager who has won it previous. He’s proper doing by head in.
I still have faith. Didn't the club was built based on values of loyalty and patience? Go on Jose, prove them wrong.
Great thread, I know most of us here are in the minrotity but it would be madness to sack him. Stand by him for as long as he’s in that seat. Go on Jose, turn it around.
How many more signings does Mourinho need before he actually manages to improve some of them? I'm finding it hard to name a single signing that has improved under him. Guardiola and Klopp have had failed signings but they also had successful ones along the way. I find it hard to believe that Alderweireld was the one missing piece of the puzzle when there are multiple issues all over the pitch.
Can't wait for him to go. He's always been a cnut. But even I think it would be ridiculous to sack anyone 3 games into a season.
We need to start looking at replacements now and get someone in for next season.
We need to start looking at replacements now and get someone in for next season.
Shhh don't talk sense
There is no way the players just turned garbage right after winning the league. There was a lot more to it.
Don’t see the point in sacking him now but I also feel that there isn’t any point continuing with him beyond this season.
Sacking him doesn’t solve all our problems but longer term giving him more time and money probably won’t either.
Title is gone now but it was unlikely anyway, should be given the chance to turn it round and try to win something but he should go at the end of the season.
Sacking him doesn’t solve all our problems but longer term giving him more time and money probably won’t either.
Title is gone now but it was unlikely anyway, should be given the chance to turn it round and try to win something but he should go at the end of the season.
Even if he steadies the ship for the next few games, lets be honest, it really doesn't look like we are not going to be successful under his management. While Ed does take a lot of the blame for the way the summer window turned out, it's not like Jose's signings are tearing it up and I think that's one of the reasons why Ed is reluctant to spend more money freely.
As for lats nights match, the defenders make stupid mistakes but so did Jose. Started players who haven't played yet this season, started Matic who looked far from ready, played Herrera in defence for some bizarre reason and started Jones and Smalling together. The subs were just as poor and had no impact on the game, so he takes a lot of the blame for the result too.
For me it comes down to this, as a club we're not a good fit for Mourinho and as a manager he's simply the wrong one for United. Sometimes it doesn't work out for whatever reason and it's best to cut your losses and move on. It's only 3 games in, but even Arsenal are above us in the league and they had tougher games. Top 4 is a must, would be a disaster if we miss out IMO.
As for lats nights match, the defenders make stupid mistakes but so did Jose. Started players who haven't played yet this season, started Matic who looked far from ready, played Herrera in defence for some bizarre reason and started Jones and Smalling together. The subs were just as poor and had no impact on the game, so he takes a lot of the blame for the result too.
For me it comes down to this, as a club we're not a good fit for Mourinho and as a manager he's simply the wrong one for United. Sometimes it doesn't work out for whatever reason and it's best to cut your losses and move on. It's only 3 games in, but even Arsenal are above us in the league and they had tougher games. Top 4 is a must, would be a disaster if we miss out IMO.
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