The Mourinho Thread: Should he stay or go? | Sacked

[Revan]

To be fair I think he put Herrera there for Herrera to do his usual man marking job he does in big matches. Sort of how he had Herrera at RB to mark Hazard in Mourinhos first season.

He played as a RCB on a 3 man defense, he wasn't doing any marking. You can't do man marking when you're playing as a CB against a striker who moves all over the pitch.

If getting from 6th to 2nd is the result than surely we did something right. Or was it all because of De Gea? Right.

Since Mourinho came our points total puts us in 5th place, which is exactly where we were before he took over and then wasted 420m pounds. With the football being one of the worst in the league.

 

[TsuWave]

So our GK is responsible for our improvent? Ok

You seriously think that only Ddg is reaponsible for our improvement?

have you limited reading comprehension? because neither of these were said.

 

[Massive Spanner]

I mean if Jose somehow manages to turn it around then it will be be completely against the odds.

Like you/Carra said... he has shown himself to be unable to do it, and it basically never happens in modern day football anyway... so not only will we be relying on Jose doing something he's never done before, but also doing something that no managers seem able to do these days.

Good point. It really doesn't happen, certainly not at a top club or a league as ruthless as the PL.

That said I don't think the board will sack him. Things were a hell of a lot worse than this under both Moyes and LvG before they got rid of them. No chance they're getting rid of Mourinho 3 games in.

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

He should jump ship and let Woodward clean up his own mess

 

[Lentwood]

I think Jose is fantastic but I really am tired of the constant negativity and clashing with the Board/fans/press - not all necessarily his fault btw

Right man, wrong club, wrong time unfortunately. We need a “yes man” or an up and coming manager to work for Ed’s franchise, not somebody who actually wants to win anything

 

[Bojan11]

Good point. It really doesn't happen, certainly not at a top club or a league as ruthless as the PL.

That said I don't think the board will sack him. Things were a hell of a lot worse than this under both Moyes and LvG before they got rid of them. No chance they're getting rid of Mourinho 3 games in.

Yeah but the board need to learn their lesson. If we had got rid of LVG in December, I’m convinced we would have got a champions league spot ahead of City. The same goes for Moyes. They stood there doing nothing and it cost us.

 

[Annihilate Now!]

If Lukaku scored that, we would looking at a different result and a more upbeat mood.

I'm in. Mourinho deserves more patience than what LvG or Moyes ever deserved..

Yeah

We'd have lost 3-1.

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

Yeah but the board need to learn their lesson. If we had got rid of LVG in December, I’m convinced we would have got a champions league spot ahead of City. The same goes for Moyes. They stood there doing nothing and it cost us.

Prepare for the same again.

If they didn't sack Moyes in December when it was obvious to everyone on the planet it wouldn't get better, they won't ever sack a manager mid-season.

 

[Oggmonster]

Jose is fine when things are fine and settled, but any sort of storm and it's only ever going to end one way.

The problem being the storm comes because of him. He creates the atmosphere of it not being fine and settled. Pre season was the perfect example of what he can be like.

I wanted him gone at the end of last season, whilst I don't think the players have downed tools I do think there's clear issues with squad harmony etc.

I don't think it's as simple as it's all Jose or all Woodward, everyone has had a part to play (players like Pogba and Sanchez have been awful for the most part) but Jose seems to be the one massive issue in all honesty. I can't see him being here next season and I can't see us getting Top 4 or any kind of success with trophies this one really.

 

[Rednotdead]

We're getting to the stage where we need Tony Pulis. He's good at fighting relegation.

 

[lococol]

No, he should be given more time and should always have had the full backing of the board and fans. Its no coincidence that we take potentially world class players and make them average no matter what manager we have over the last 5 years. The problem is more than just the manager. I think its the pressure of playing for Man Utd. We expect to win and when we don't we sulk. Jose will win things, its what he does. Fans should back the manager and club and not bitch about them like spoilt entitled children when we lose. Winning things is hard work and not a right. We still need to gel and this takes time. Jose is not blameless but I think he can still turn this around. I think sacking him now would be disastrous. I don't think Zidane is good enough and I cant think who else would be a suitable replacement. Jose will see this season out. I actually think we will win something too but he will still be gone at the end of the season and the next manager will have the same problems at united.

 

[Ban]

He played as a RCB on a 3 man defense, he wasn't doing any marking. You can't do man marking when you're playing as a CB against a striker who moves all over the pitch.

Since Mourinho came our points total puts us in 5th place, which is exactly where we were before he took over and then wasted 420m pounds. With the football being one of the worst in the league.

Points total since he came? Strange way to spin it. You go season by season.

 

[NoLogo]

Been José out for around a year. Glad other people are coming to the same conclusion - he's a nightmare.

He was the third manager in a row I didn't really want but always excepted because those I really wanted either turned us down or where not available at the time which really sucked. Unfortunately my fears about all three have been proven right every time.

I really hope we get the next appointment right and we need to take a risk with someone who hasn't managed a big team before but has shown that he can play progressive attacking football and develop youngsters, at least that's what I want to see. For me that's simply part of our football culture as I see it but I'm not sure about the manager to bring in atm. Klopp would have been my favorite about 5 years ago but that ship has sailed for ever imo.

Jardim seems to be the only real option for me atm. He has shown at Monaco that he is excellent in developing young players and the football they played in 2016/17 was really exciting to watch at times. I feel he would be the best option that could realistically be tempted to make a move to our club.

The super star option of course would be Zidane but I'm not sure about his ability to develop a squad and ours obviously needs development. I loved him as a player and I feel his accomplishments at Real were not only down to him inheriting an excellent squad but also to him being a pragmatist and lining up in a way to get the best out of his star players, he also seems very flexible tactically but I feel it leaves a bit of a sour taste in my mouth that he basically says after 3 seasons he can't move the squad forward anymore.

If we sack Mou the search of the next manager will certainly not be easy but it's going to be crucial to find someone who fits the style most of our fans, i hope, have come to love and appreciate during Fergies reign and who is also up to the task of handling the pressure from the fans and the media.

 

[blue blue]

Did you even watch the first half? We dominated them and the players put in more effort than they have in a while. How does that indicate he lost the dressing room?

We should really question what losing the dressing room means. Some people interpret this as meaning there is an open revolt amongst the players where they argue with the manager/coach in the dressing room. Some people think it means the players have secret discussions amongst themselves about how the manager/coach is wrong.

I have heard a number of comments about Jose lost the dressing room at Chelsea. 3-4 months before his departure there were players coming out in the media saying how they had his full support. Yet at the same time on the pitch the team were looking very fragile and other teams were seeing this. Doesn't a certain fragility in the teams mentality reflect a losing of control by the manager/coach? Yes there can be positive signs that will mask an underlying issue. In it's early stages failure isn't so easily identified and "losing the dressing room" can mean a total loss of confidence throughout the team. Confidence within a team can be influenced by the manager, in fact it could be argued that this has always been Jose's strong point. He instilled a wining mentality at Chelsea the first time and was credited with building that confidence. Rightly or wrongly I have always felt Jose was more of a motivator than a tactician. Unfortunately he seems to have demotivated the Utd players and is therefore responsible for the loss of confidence and consequently the dressing room.

Only the players know what happens in the dressing room but what I saw in last nights performance was so similar to the Chelsea under Jose in his demise that it was painful to watch.

If Jose turns this around it will be the biggest achievement of his career.

 

[Massive Spanner]

Yeah but the board need to learn their lesson. If we had got rid of LVG in December, I’m convinced we would have got a champions league spot ahead of City. The same goes for Moyes. They stood there doing nothing and it cost us.

Absolutely, but I don't think they will, somehow.

 

[Jacko21]

Failure to address Mourinho’s concerns over the defence have come home to roost after three games.

He, in spite of signing Bailly and Lindelof recognised the need for a new defender to come in. His opinion should’ve been enough of a warning to Woodward.

Guardiola was reluctant to work with Bravo (whom he signed) and recommended that Emerson be signed. Klopp was reluctant to work with Karius (again, whom he signed) and recommended that Alisson be signed. The respective folk in charge of transfers at City and Liverpool didn’t turn around and say ‘work with what you’ve got’ - they recognised the weakness and in spite of the outlay, rectified the situation.

Mourinho has his own questions to answer. But one of the most successful managers in the game shouldn’t have to justify a football-related matter to a former banker.

Mourinho should be apportioned some of the blame for our failings, but he isn’t wholly culpable. And I’d still sooner he remained in charge to turn this ship around.

 

[GBBQ]

The problem being the storm comes because of him. He creates the atmosphere of it not being fine and settled. Pre season was the perfect example of what he can be like.

I wanted him gone at the end of last season, whilst I don't think the players have downed tools I do think there's clear issues with squad harmony etc.

I don't think it's as simple as it's all Jose or all Woodward, everyone has had a part to play (players like Pogba and Sanchez have been awful for the most part) but Jose seems to be the one massive issue in all honesty. I can't see him being here next season and I can't see us getting Top 4 or any kind of success with trophies this one really.

Agreed, i think too many fans are trying to pin the blame on one specific thing but its clear there are a number of issues.

Mourinho's attitude is causing issues as is his inability to get the most out of some talented players
Woodward isn't addressing Mourinho's squad needs and isn't qualified to make the decisions he appears to be making
Pogba is causing issues with talking to the press directly and via Raiola
Other players aren't giving their all for their team or aren't living up to their price tag or wages

If Lukaku scores we might win the game btu I think it papers over the cracks and hopefully this leads to some catharsis where Woodward and Mourinho get on the same page.

 

[Tom Van Persie]

I'm still behind Mourinho but if we don't win anything this season or don't mount a serious title challenge then my stance has to change unfortunately. I care about results and winning trophies, if the manager can't deliver that after three seasons then we have to change managers it's as simple as that. I feel for him though, you can tell he's desperate to succeed here and has way more ambition than our greedy owners who are happy with top 4 finishes every season. In the summer, the board should've looked at that league table and asked themselves how much money is it going to take for us to catch City but I bet instead our board looked at how much money we've made and told Jose that 2nd place is more than good enough. Jose got us our highest league finish and points tally since Fergie retired we should've been spending £150M+ on world class players in the summer to take us that step further.

 

[humdinger]

This club is a shambles just now, with lots of key personnel not doing very well at their jobs. The fans are entitled to be furious about what is going on, and the press are stoking the fire quite gleefully as United in "crisis" is very newsworthy.

Unfortunately for Jose, the board aren't going to sack themselves/Woodward, and players are worth too much - he is the easiest component to change and that's why he'll go. I think if we lose the next two games, he's toast.

I agree though that it won't be some magic fix that solves everything unless we manage to find a manager who can work in harmony with both the board and the players, and who can bring back a bit of swagger and charisma onto the pitch. We REALLY need to put in the effort and research and make sure the next manager is the right one.

I missed the game last night, but funnily enough, it sounds like we were actually playing positively and were the superior team for a lot of it. The capitulation and lack of discipline once Spurs scored is completely unacceptable though.

 

[Vault Dweller]

I’m behind him.

He has been undermined by the senior leadership at the club throughout the summer after being given a contract extension earlier this year. Why give him an extension and then not back him? Ludicrous decision making quite frankly.

I’m aware he signed Bailly / Lindelof but bloody hell, it’s as if the guy isn’t allowed to make a mistake. Bailly would be much better with a more composed and experienced partner with him (which is what Jose was after in the summer), and quite frankly Lindelof is just not up to it. Jose asked for a CB, and guess what? We need one. The last two games have exposed the fact the defence really is poor through the middle and should have been strengthened.

Another point is that replacing Jose would change nothing imo. Replace him with anyone, and have no change elsewhere in the club, and we will be in the same situation in the future, it’s inevitable. Replacing him 3 bloody games into the season is madness too. So many players last night were also playing their first games of the season and everyone is not yet fit, so you have to factor that in too.

I think we will have a better idea in a few games time when we have the full squad fit and available. The first half yesterday was really good I thought and we tired in the second half while Spurs were clinical and we made individual and basic errors. If we can proceed with what was shown in the first half, and get the squad fit and available, and the defence stops making brainless mistakes, the results will come. I believe in that.

#Jose in.

 

[Kemizee]

He's gone I reckon, either he walks or they feck him off.

He doesn't give a shit and neither do his players.

And that exactly is my real worry. I must admit that I would not shed a tear if Mou is sacked 2moro.

However, we have so many average and mentally frail players in this club who are incapable of handling the pressure esp. in the critical moments of games. Players who do not want to stand up to be counted when shit hits the fan.

What assurance do we have that these players who have stank up the place for years will suddenly become world beaters and this is before taking into account the usual new manager cliche of "assesing the squad and understanding our needs as a team"

We are in a deep mess and whether people like to admit it or not, sacking Mourinho is just a palliative measure. The club needs a proper surgical operation on the organizational structure as well as the current crop of useless idiots who are not fit to wear our jersey. It is gonna be a long road and ride for us all. There will no short- cuts or magically instantaneous remedies.

 

[Janson]

He played as a RCB on a 3 man defense, he wasn't doing any marking. You can't do man marking when you're playing as a CB against a striker who moves all over the pitch.

Since Mourinho came our points total puts us in 5th place, which is exactly where we were before he took over and then wasted 420m pounds. With the football being one of the worst in the league.

That stat in a vacuum might be valid. Considering all other variables, it doesn't really represent what really happened.

It doesn't even take into account the EL win. First year was for Mourinho to build, and it would take at least a year to start seeing improvements. And that's exactly what happened and it could have continued if they had kept backing the manager.

 

[Janson]

have you limited reading comprehension? because neither of these were said.

So what was said?

 

[AbusementPark]

There was a fantastic effort from the players last night in the game and they were very unlucky. Overall it just seemed like a panicky performance and were running about like headless chickens at times. Pogba was the worst player on the pitch, luke shaw played fantastically well last night and was the only player that can hold their head up from the game. I do however think Mourinho has lost the plot and the pressure has got to him. Also I’m fed up listening to the sound bite of him saying respect every half an hour on the radio one news update

 

[Vadim]

I've come to the end of my tether with Jose now and think it's time he moved on and maybe managed the Portugal side after a rest or something. But let's not put all the blame in his court. As fans, we always look for a scapegoat and there are many factors you have to take into account:

* The Glazers taking huge amounts of cash out of the club whilst our blue neighbours spend money on players, academies, state of the art football training facilities etc.

* Ed Woodward, a business man, trying to run the football side of the club. It's not working.

* The players downing tools.

* Jose Mourinho being a negative, miserable, depressing character who finds it a chore to manage Manchester United.

Jose is clean shaven with a suit on matchday these days, like he's showing everyone that he's making an effort. This tells me he knows the writing is on the wall because he obviously wants to stay in the job and prove himself. But that's the issue - it's always about him, not the club.

 

[VP89]

I've come to the end of my tether with Jose now and think it's time he moved on and maybe managed the Portugal side after a rest or something. But let's not put all the blame in his court. As fans, we always look for a scapegoat and there are many factors you have to take into account:

* The Glazers taking huge amounts of cash out of the club whilst our blue neighbours spend money on players, academies, state of the art football training facilities etc.

* Ed Woodward, a business man, trying to run the football side of the club. It's not working.

* The players downing tools.

* Jose Mourinho being a negative, miserable, depressing character who finds it a chore to manage Manchester United.

Jose is clean shaven with a suit on matchday these days, like he's showing everyone that he's making an effort. This tells me he knows the writing is on the wall because he obviously wants to stay in the job and prove himself. But that's the issue - it's always about him, not the club.

The bold bit is my favourite

 

[Iowred]

I think it’s now time for Jose to go, don’t wait until the end of the season, sack him now, today would be good. I wonder if he has a feeling it’s on the cards with that long wave and clap to the crowd at the end of the game. Getting a new manager now would give whoever it is 4 months to decide who is not good enough and ship them out in January, building up funds to bring in some proper players who can start to make us competitive for the title again.

I just hope that ed Woodward has the balls to make what would be a huge decision and sack mourinho now /today. This level of incompetent football needs to stop today. Watching it last night and the saddest thing was I was not surprised or upset as this has been building for some time. For some reason there is a very big and dark cloud above united that needs lifting, sacking mourinho and brining in someone young who the will automatically get the players respect and attention is what’s needed, zidane is the man for me with a DOF supporting in building back our identity.

Come on Ed, make the call

 

[Vadim]

The bold bit is my favourite

I prefer clean shaven Jose to scruffy tracksuit Jose. But it all feels so forced now.

 

[Janson]

have you limited reading comprehension? because neither of these were said.

Of course you don't have an answer.

 

[The Cat]

I've had Sky Sports news on the last hour so. Can't listen to it anymore it's got to go off.

I can't see any way out from here for Jose. I actually have quite a lot of sympathy for him but this can't carry on.

I just looked at the 1st team squad and if I were a new manager coming in ideally I would only want about 8 of them.

 

[Ban]

You came in just to say that?

He's calling out the posters you know.

 

[Vadim]

I've had Sky Sports news on the last hour so. Can't listen to it anymore it's got to go off.

I can't see any way out from here for Jose. I actually have quite a lot of sympathy for him but this can't carry on.

I just looked at the 1st team squad and if I were a new manager coming in ideally I would only want about 8 of them.

This is what I'm annoyed about. Jose said himself when he took the Utd job that he's always left the next manager with strong squads. None of his signings have been good enough really, Pogba included.

 

[Hughie77]

Can't see it. The guy is fighting you can see it, let's all be honest here, did anyone expect a 1st half of football like that yesterday? Not me.
He had tried a different way . And if lukaku takes the chances he had and one great one. Where up at least 2.0. At half time.? Next 5 fixtures are all winnable games, let's see by the time we play Chelsea in October were we are in terms of points and performance.
Jose is at the moment a top target for the pundits press etc, klopp was having it 2 yrs ago, not as bad as Jose though..
They have to find something to write whether it's truth or lies. I'm not happy at all but the guy deserves some respect he's earned it.

 

[Revan]

That stat in a vacuum might be valid. Considering all other variables, it doesn't really represent what really happened.

It doesn't even take into account the EL win. First year was for Mourinho to build, and it would take at least a year to start seeing improvements. And that's exactly what happened and it could have continued if they had kept backing the manager.

No it doesn't. Conte took Mourinho's team that was near relegation, and won the title with 90+ points. Only United's manager have this excuse that it takes forever to see anything more than marginal improvements.

You're right that the stat I mentioned doesn't take into account the EL win. Neither it does the humiliation to Sevilla.

 

[Ban]

He made poor signings? Is he the only manager to do it? Even beloved Klopp and Pep did it. Board decided not to support him, it seems Ed is playing games, we indeed have become. Disneyland how he wished. Our rivals are getting better yet he decided not to put the money in.
Thinking changing a manager 3 games in will suddenly solve all of our problems is naive to say the least.

 

[Keeps It tidy]

This is what I'm annoyed about. Jose said himself when he took the Utd job that he's always left the next manager with strong squads. None of his signings have been good enough really, Pogba included.

He is going to leave us a strong squad he is just currently not the right guy to manage them.

 

[Cassidy]

"4 specialist signings!" Thats what I need....

Bailly -- Well seems like he is being written off
Mhiki -- Sold to Arsenal
Pogba -- Well..... for a specialist signing, its a bit odd there is so much confusion about his role
Ibra -- Actually a very decent stop gap signing, shame about his injury

 

[groovyalbert]

We probably won’t know until he leaves, but I’d be interested to know how many of “Jose’s” signings were actually sanctioned by him.

 

[In Rainbows]

it could have continued if they had kept backing the manager.

Do you honestly believe that? Then how do you explain this season thus far? Spurs spent nothing and as you pointed out, 2nd place was the perfect representation for the improvement we have made.

Or perhaps 2nd place was not an accurate representation of how good this team was and in all likelihood the 2nd place flatters Mourinho's performance due to getting bailed out by de Gea who surely was the difference maker of 4-6 points?

 

[charlenefan]

Anyone backing him needs to ask themselves what they are expecting in terms of results this year. Short of finishing 2nd we would effectively have gone backwards this year at which point Jose would probably be let go anyway.

A- surely any negative comments should be posted in the Mourinho Out thread?
B- when the board let us stand still this summer at a time City were already streets ahead of us and Liverpool have spent tons they were the ones who wrote this season off. How is the manager expected to mount a title win without improving the squad?