The Mourinho Thread: Should he stay or go? | Sacked

[Varun1]

Go.
There's no smoke without fire, so I believe there is a problem with the players as well as the manager. But we can't get rid of 5-6 platers (Valencia, Pogba, Alexis, Martial, Bailly etc.) Whereas we can get rid of 1 manager.
But I think we should start by recruiting a DoF first, someone who will help define the direction our football will be played and therefore help with the right manager.

 

[The Cat]

What is the worst Carrick can do ?

a) play players out of position
b) constantly swap defenders
c) hang them out in the press
d) make everyone look lethargic and lacklustre
e) alienate players
f) blame everyone but himself
g) play 3 central midfielders who doesn't understand what putting pressure on the opponent is about

Well at least he can't appoint Carrick.

 

[Annihilate Now!]

After that post match interview I really don't think he wants to be here anymore. He's probably shocked he's still here

This either indicates that

a) you think Jose has a solid plan thats working well

or

b) you think it is impossible for anyone to do a better job then Jose is doing right now....

 

[Beachryan]

Surely McKenna is better qualified?

 

[pcaming]

Pretty sure it would be Mckenna as caretaker, seeing as how he's an actual coach. Neither of them would be worse than sticking with Mou, as they'll at least have the players.

 

[Fosu-Mens]

I really don't understand people shitting on Woodward. Fans were heaping praises on him when United landed star-names like Di Maria, Mkhitaryan, Falcao, Zlatan, Pogba, Sanchez etc. And rightly so. The fact that it hasn't worked out on the field is not his fault. I would say he has held up his part of the deal by performing well on all off-the-field areas.
You can say that managerial appointments is where he has fecked up but even then, I remember both the managerial appointments (LVG and Mourinho) were lauded by the fans at the time.

His main objective is to earn £££ for the owners. So can't really blame him for doing his job on that area. If the owners wanted trophies or a team playing entertaining football he would have been sacked alongside LVG.

So he is not doing a bad job for what he is appointed to do. The problem is that this does not coincide with what the fans wants to see. Fans wants trophies, entertainment and success on the field, Woodward on behalf of the owners wants good 10Ks and financial growth.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

Is it true that even Manchester's police didn't escape Mourinho's blame game as he put the blame on them for team running late last night?

Yep. They have come out and said the club knew they wouldn't have an escort.

 

[Bilbo]

Looking at this from Mourinho's perspective and I can't help but wonder why he doesn't resign.

From my own opinion and also other fans that I speak to about United, the general feeling that I've encountered is that the players have a material level of responsibility in us finding ourselves in this situation. The manager is, of course, far from blameless and deserves to be sacked, but we also appear to have an attitude and application problem amongst this squad.

With that said, another sacking on his record would be very damaging to his reputation. Jose the troublemaker who can't keep a squad of players behind him. Which big club wouldn't view his appointment as a huge risk? He is arguably damaged goods now and unlikely to land a job at any of the elite clubs.

However if he resigns he gets to control the story much more than he will do otherwise. "The players had an attitude problem - pampered superstars who wouldn't put in a shift - I did everything I could. For the good of the club I will let someone else have a go etc etc". A lot of people would buy that - assuming the next guy doesn't come in and produce an immediate and prolonged improvement on the pitch (which is highly unlikely IMO). He would walk away relatively unscathed in comparison. He'll lose out financially, but I'm sure a behind closed doors mutually agreed payout for a resignation could be negotiated - its win win.

My feeling is he expects to be and hopes to be fired, and that this will be his last club job - he will move into the international field after this.

Obviously the other option is that he turns this around and makes a success of the job - but the fact that this option is a footnote here for me highlights how bad things are and how unlikely this scenario is.

 

[Bastian]

This thread is Berlin April 45 hehe.
I can only think of 2 scenarios where Mourinho survives.
-Mourinho and the players have a serious meeting, in which the two concede, leaving out leaks, comments in the press, etc.
The Pogba thing comes from far away and maybe some players are not for the job either.
-The board gets serious and publicly supports Mourinho, warning or punishing any player directly.

Like you yourself lay out, there are a couple of scenarios in which this can turn positive. I believe so myself.

@hn4manunited
The more the merrier, glad you're on board!

Is that because Jose is a paragon of virtues who never says a thing out of line or has never had acrimonious end to his tenures before or has never been sacked before?

Help me out here - which of Jose's qualities mentioned above will be the cause for other top managers to think that managing Man United is a "poisoned chalice"?

It's not about his qualities or LVG's qualities even, it's more about the level of expectation compared to the structure of the club and the quality of the team. People said whoever replaces SAF is taking on a poisoned chalice, well, it's still poisoned. Would Zidane fancy staining his legacy with a 2-3 year stint of winning nothing significant at United (assuming there will be no fundamental changes)?

And I thought we'd weeded out the last of the Mou rectum dwellers after the old threads were merged. ^_~

Congratulations. The lowest IQ comment I've seen in a few weeks. You're welcome to not post here again.

Support him all you want if it makes you feel superior to your average United fan, but it will make absolutely no difference in the end. Jose will be sacked within the next 14 days due to gross incompetence.

It is completely not a top red thing. I don't think your being totally against Mourinho makes you any less of a supporter, we're not claiming any moral superiority here so let's not go down that road. We just have differing opinions.

 

[SirAF]

Looking at this from Mourinho's perspective and I can't help but wonder why he doesn't resign.

From my own opinion and also other fans that I speak to about United, the general feeling that I've encountered is that the players have a material level of responsibility in us finding ourselves in this situation. The manager is, of course, far from blameless and deserves to be sacked, but we also appear to have an attitude and application problem amongst this squad.

With that said, another sacking on his record would be very damaging to his reputation. Jose the troublemaker who can't keep a squad of players behind him. Which big club wouldn't view his appointment as a huge risk? He is arguably damaged goods now and unlikely to land a job at any of the elite clubs.

However if he resigns he gets to control the story much more than he will do otherwise. "The players had an attitude problem - pampered superstars who wouldn't put in a shift - I did everything I could. For the good of the club I will let someone else have a go etc etc". A lot of people would buy that - assuming the next guy doesn't come in and produce an immediate and prolonged improvement on the pitch (which is highly unlikely IMO). He would walk away relatively unscathed in comparison. He'll lose out financially, but I'm sure a behind closed doors mutually agreed payout for a resignation could be negotiated - its win win.

My feeling is he expects to be and hopes to be fired, and that this will be his last club job - he will move into the international field after this.

Obviously the other option is that he turns this around and makes a success of the job - but the fact that this option is a footnote here for me highlights how bad things are and how unlikely this scenario is.

If he resigns he'll miss out on a 12m compensation - it would be pure stupidity from him to resign no matter the situation.

 

[Fosu-Mens]

Looking at this from Mourinho's perspective and I can't help but wonder why he doesn't resign.

From my own opinion and also other fans that I speak to about United, the general feeling that I've encountered is that the players have a material level of responsibility in us finding ourselves in this situation. The manager is, of course, far from blameless and deserves to be sacked, but we also appear to have an attitude and application problem amongst this squad.

With that said, another sacking on his record would be very damaging to his reputation. Jose the troublemaker who can't keep a squad of players behind him. Which big club wouldn't view his appointment as a huge risk? He is arguably damaged goods now and unlikely to land a job at any of the elite clubs.

However if he resigns he gets to control the story much more than he will do otherwise. "The players had an attitude problem - pampered superstars who wouldn't put in a shift - I did everything I could. For the good of the club I will let someone else have a go etc etc". A lot of people would buy that - assuming the next guy doesn't come in and produce an immediate and prolonged improvement on the pitch (which is highly unlikely IMO). He would walk away relatively unscathed in comparison. He'll lose out financially, but I'm sure a behind closed doors mutually agreed payout for a resignation could be negotiated - its win win.

My feeling is he expects to be and hopes to be fired, and that this will be his last club job - he will move into the international field after this.

Obviously the other option is that he turns this around and makes a success of the job - but the fact that this option is a footnote here for me highlights how bad things are and how unlikely this scenario is.

He wanted the sack since preseason. He knew that without major investments in the squad there would be no chance at all for the club to compete in the league.

 

[Massive Spanner]

I just struggle to understand how people want to give more time to a manager who has never lasted more than three seasons at a club, and these are the exact same posters who said his third season meltdown is a complete myth. And yet, here we are, in the middle of a complete meltdown, in his third season.

I can't grasp how anyone thinks he could turn it around now. He's never done it before, so what makes people think he can now?

it's pure delusion and a lack of acceptance that he's done.

 

[dwd]

Our throw-ins are quicker which is apparently a sign the players are responding to his requests. Can you imagine being this stupid?

 

[Robbie Boy]

Love the way he made such inspiring substitutions and changed our set piece takers last night.

 

[Dec9003]

I really don't know if Jose is capable to fix the mess we're in at the minute, but I think it's likely we'll still be in a mess in say two years time.
There will be an X manager out thread within about two years of Jose leaving, because the squad is below par and despite high money buys like Pogba and Lukaku, I don't think the board will go for a likely expensive wholesale change of the squad.

 

[RoadTrip]

To me, the only question is about whether the difference is just motivation. I see it in my work. When an employee is motivated and has a lot of self-belief, he or she delivers far beyond what they would normally be expected to do on talent alone. In football, I give you John O'Shea, Wes Brown, Tom Cleverley and co. when playing for Fergie. This comes from above though. The manager / hierarchy above is the key element in building this story. The narrative of goals, roles and fitness for purpose. Are Henderson, Milner or Wijnaldum actual world-beaters? How about Fabien Delph? Yet, these people perform at a much higher level than people for us with a lot more talent - Pogba, Sanchez, Lukaku etc. This element, the motivation and belief, is that final ingredient. It's what makes the difference when push comes to shove at the highest level.

Agreed. But motivation is not solely the responsibility of the manager. You have to also appreciate that motivation is an inherent quality of an individual. An individual may be self motivated. May need aupppet. May need to get bollocked. Some of those fall under the responsibility of a manager to harness but motivation is also a self thing. Those guys you listed aren’t world beaters but maybe they are motivated to succeed. Compare, purely speculating, to someone like Pogba, who is already a WC winner, thinks he’s on top of the word. Why would he be motivated to bust his guts al day? And that may be something a manager cannot fix.

Not saying any of the above is fact. But possible.

 

[kr0nix]

Congratulations. The lowest IQ comment I've seen in a few weeks. You're welcome to not post here again.

White text mate.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

I just struggle to understand how people want to give more time to a manager who has never lasted more than three seasons at a club, and these are the exact same posters who said his third season meltdown is a complete myth. And yet, here we are, in the middle of a complete meltdown, in his third season.

I can't grasp how anyone thinks he could turn it around now. He's never done it before, so what makes people think he can now?

it's pure delusion and a lack of acceptance that he's done.

First paragraph is spot on. Harsh but fair.

 

[dwd]

Just had an email saying tickets are available for the Newcastle game which hardly ever happens. Interest is dwindling in watching us fast.

 

[Bilbo]

If he resigns he'll miss out on a 12m compensation - it would be pure stupidity from him to resign no matter the situation.

If he weighs up a 12m payoff against the damage it will do to his reputation and potential future earnings, it doesn't seem quite as stupid

 

[edgar allan]

If he weighs up a 12m payoff against the damage it will do to his reputation and potential future earnings, it doesn't seem quite as stupid

If he quits he would be admitting that he failed. Jose would never believe that. He is here until someone has the balls to sack him.

 

[BusbyMalone]

Looking at this from Mourinho's perspective and I can't help but wonder why he doesn't resign.

From my own opinion and also other fans that I speak to about United, the general feeling that I've encountered is that the players have a material level of responsibility in us finding ourselves in this situation. The manager is, of course, far from blameless and deserves to be sacked, but we also appear to have an attitude and application problem amongst this squad.

With that said, another sacking on his record would be very damaging to his reputation. Jose the troublemaker who can't keep a squad of players behind him. Which big club wouldn't view his appointment as a huge risk? He is arguably damaged goods now and unlikely to land a job at any of the elite clubs.

However if he resigns he gets to control the story much more than he will do otherwise. "The players had an attitude problem - pampered superstars who wouldn't put in a shift - I did everything I could. For the good of the club I will let someone else have a go etc etc". A lot of people would buy that - assuming the next guy doesn't come in and produce an immediate and prolonged improvement on the pitch (which is highly unlikely IMO). He would walk away relatively unscathed in comparison. He'll lose out financially, but I'm sure a behind closed doors mutually agreed payout for a resignation could be negotiated - its win win.

My feeling is he expects to be and hopes to be fired, and that this will be his last club job - he will move into the international field after this.

Obviously the other option is that he turns this around and makes a success of the job - but the fact that this option is a footnote here for me highlights how bad things are and how unlikely this scenario is.

You just answered your own question there. Also, if he gets sacked there's another excuse for him. He can maintain he didn't get the players he wanted, he got us into second with a higher points total than any manger since Fergie, yet they still sacked me. Also, money.

 

[Bastian]

White text mate.

Ha. I failed to spot it.

@Massive Spanner I think my stance is kind of based on what @Dec9003 says just below you. I don't think a new manager will change things that much without serious changes to the playing staff and changes in terms of footballing decisions and expertise. You could say this is blind faith, naivety or deluded optimism, take your pick, I just don't see the benefit in sacking him now and being team Pogba instead of having the club brief the press that they categorically rule out any managerial changes during the season.

What makes people think that McKenna, with zero managerial experience, could take on the job until the end of the season? I really struggle to understand the logic. Just because you're a promising young coach, doesn't mean you can deal with one of the most difficult jobs in football...

 

[AlwaysRed66]

Almost 75% of the CAF want him gone, been a massive change recently and from the looks of it a lot of new voters.

I expect many of the 25% not wanting him out are supporters of other clubs, who want him to remain to damage us.

 

[SirAF]

If he weighs up a 12m payoff against the damage it will do to his reputation and potential future earnings, it doesn't seem quite as stupid

I think it is. Mourinho will be able to obtain a very well paid job after United no matter what. Just look at the same old English managers circulating in the PL - Mourinho will still be in demand, not by the Reals and Barcelonas, but still in demand.

 

[predator]

Can I ask the mourinho fanboys why they think he isn't on the decline? What points to him still being a great manager?

His signings?
The results?
The way he deals with the players via the press?

I can only go off what I see and everything I see points towards him being not the manager he once was.

 

[Fredo]

He went too far to fix things, you just can't criticize your employers regardless of who you are or what your past achievements were.

People nag here about the big paycheck we have to give him, but comon we are the richest club in the world you really think we care about his paycheck if the board decided it was time for him to go? You really think 10-20 mil will run us to the ground?

He went beyond his head, dissing the club, dissing the players, as if he thinks he runs the whole club, he's just a manager who is blaming the board for not being able to get the best out of his players. His time is up, you simply cannot criticize your employer, players, club and still not deliver anything and brag about how much it would cost to sack you. He crossed the line and he should be replaced.

 

[Massive Spanner]

Ha. I failed to spot it.

@Massive Spanner I think my stance is kind of based on what @Dec9003 says just below you. I don't think a new manager will change things that much without serious changes to the playing staff and changes in terms of footballing decisions and expertise. You could say this is blind faith, naivety or deluded optimism, take your pick, I just don't see the benefit in sacking him now and being team Pogba instead of having the club brief the press that they categorically rule out any managerial changes during the season.

What makes people think that McKenna, with zero managerial experience, could take on the job until the end of the season? I really struggle to understand the logic. Just because you're a promising young coach, doesn't mean you can deal with one of the most difficult jobs in football...

I've got nothing against your opinion if you want to be optimistic but honestly.. can it get worse?

At least a new manager won't have lost the dressing room, or constantly criticise the players, or constantly act like a completely prick in front of the press, or (hopefully not) set us up in constantly ridiculous formations and with constantly ridiculous team selections.

I mean, sure, Mc Kenna might not be much better, but it's fair to say it's basically impossible he could be worse. Mourinho is driving us down toward the relegation zone, just like he did with Chelsea. We would need an absolute imbecile of a replacement manager to somehow do any worse than he has been, a David Moyes, if you will (actually he's about level on points with Moyes which says it all).

It just makes no sense, as I said, he always crashes and burns in his third season, so why are people advocating keeping him? What's the point? How does it help us in any way? Why let this get worse and worse just to say "ah well I mean like if we sack him now when a new manager might not change much". Well, how the feck do we know he won't change much unless we try?

Maybe you guys just don't want to back down now because you defended him so much in the summer?

 

[beedoubleyou]

I hoped this was going to be a thread about betting on when he'll be sacked. They'll definitely be financial incentives for the club to wait until CL or PL titles/qualification are impossible, but a loss to Newcastle or Everton would really test the resolve.

 

[Bastian]

Can I ask the mourinho fanboys why they think he isn't on the decline? What points to him still being a great manager?

His signings?
The results?
The way he deals with the players via the press?

I can only go off what I see and everything I see points towards him being not the manager he once was.

In the overall context of 26 months, I would only say that he's looked out of sorts in the last couple of months. Multitude of factors. It's a huge challenge to him to overcome this narrative of the third season syndrome. Coupled with the view that I don't think a new manager at this stage of the season is a good idea and the view that none of our coaching staff is ready to step up and take on the job, I think the best course of action is to publicly back him and give him the season.

I don't think he wants the sack and the payoff (and I agree @Fredo the club is not not sacking him to save the cost of a Darmian).

 

[Don _ Conte]

To me, the only question is about whether the difference is just motivation. I see it in my work. When an employee is motivated and has a lot of self-belief, he or she delivers far beyond what they would normally be expected to do on talent alone. In football, I give you John O'Shea, Wes Brown, Tom Cleverley and co. when playing for Fergie. This comes from above though. The manager / hierarchy above is the key element in building this story. The narrative of goals, roles and fitness for purpose. Are Henderson, Milner or Wijnaldum actual world-beaters? How about Fabien Delph? Yet, these people perform at a much higher level than people for us with a lot more talent - Pogba, Sanchez, Lukaku etc. This element, the motivation and belief, is that final ingredient. It's what makes the difference when push comes to shove at the highest level.

I think its this all over,

Weirdly think the players are more up for the CL games, even though we were dreadful last night. They know the league is gone, but the CL is at least somewhat alive.

Potentially but currently West ham are a harder prospect to face than Valencia.

They managed to shut us out and play well and they took you apart with ease and dominated the game, also I think Valencia have only won one single game all season so far so probably just worse opposition making you look better

 

[Bastian]

I hoped this was going to be a thread about betting on when he'll be sacked. They'll definitely be financial incentives for the club to wait until CL or PL titles/qualification are impossible, but a loss to Newcastle or Everton would really test the resolve.

You should create one. Even though I'd like to see us stabilise things until the end of the season, I think he'll get the sack soon and the club won't be briefing the press with any support for him.

 

[IRELANDUNITED]

I don't even know if he is the problem or not, we are an absolute shambles of a club at the minute and I doubt there's a man in world football who could fix us, Fergie maybe but that sadly won't happen.

 

[Bastian]

I've got nothing against your opinion if you want to be optimistic but honestly.. can it get worse?

At least a new manager won't have lost the dressing room, or constantly criticise the players, or constantly act like a completely prick in front of the press, or (hopefully not) set us up in constantly ridiculous formations and with constantly ridiculous team selections.

I mean, sure, Mc Kenna might not be much better, but it's fair to say it's basically impossible he could be worse. Mourinho is driving us down toward the relegation zone, just like he did with Chelsea. We would need an absolute imbecile of a replacement manager to somehow do any worse than he has been, a David Moyes, if you will (actually he's about level on points with Moyes which says it all).

It just makes no sense, as I said, he always crashes and burns in his third season, so why are people advocating keeping him? What's the point? How does it help us in any way? Why let this get worse and worse just to say "ah well I mean like if we sack him now when a new manager might not change much". Well, how the feck do we know he won't change much unless we try?

Maybe you guys just don't want to back down now because you defended him so much in the summer?

Yeah, maybe it's a subconscious drive to remain consistent and loyal to previous views I don't think so

I've mentioned why I don't think getting a new manager in now is a good idea: it papers over the cracks. That manager will have to win over the squad, that will make changes in future more difficult, with players getting more time to "prove themselves" which some of them have gotten three times now. It would also increase the risk that Pogba runs the dressing room, which I think is about the worst road to go down. The next manager needs to come in before a summer window, preferably having quite some time to prepare for the job and planning their moves.

If we plummet further down until Christmas, I may change my stance, depending on context. But for now, to stabilise the team the club would do well to unreservedly back him and then the team and the manager need a proper sit down and get on the same page (note, I'm not thinking Mourinho doesn't have to do anything and just carry on, he needs to build bridges).

 

[Massive Spanner]

Yeah, maybe it's a subconscious drive to remain consistent and loyal to previous views I don't think so

I've mentioned why I don't think getting a new manager in now is a good idea: it papers over the cracks. That manager will have to win over the squad, that will make changes in future more difficult, with players getting more time to "prove themselves" which some of them have gotten three times now. It would also increase the risk that Pogba runs the dressing room, which I think is about the worst road to go down. The next manager needs to come in before a summer window, preferably having quite some time to prepare for the job and planning their moves.

If we plummet further down until Christmas, I may change my stance, depending on context. But for now, to stabilise the team the club would do well to unreservedly back him and then the team and the manager need a proper sit down and get on the same page (note, I'm not thinking Mourinho doesn't have to do anything and just carry on, he needs to build bridges).

There is absolutely no prior evidence at any prior club where Mourinho has managed to stabilize the team once things start going south. It has always, always gotten worse. It's getting worse here too. That's a simple fact, just like the 'myth' that he usually goes to shit in his third season does actually happen. As such, why on earth do you think he's capable of stabilizing us? I don't mean to be a dick but it really is pure delusion and blind faith from anyone who thinks he actually can turn this around, actually, not even turn us around, just... stop us getting worse.

 

[BusbyMalone]

The way i see it at the moment is that we're on one trajectory, and that's down. There's nobody available right now who i think we should go for. I don't want Zidane as i don't think he's the answer. Personally i would go for Pochettino in the summer. I know people have their reservations about him, but i'd definitely take him here. The thing is, what do we do in the meantime. Considering i think things will only get worse, it may be better to part ways with Jose now and have Carrick and McKenna as caretakers until the end of the season. I know that may sound suicidal, but i believe the alternative (sticking with Jose) could be worse.

Part of me still lives in hope that he will turn things around, but i'm beginning to think that may be delusion speaking.

 

[Trizy]

I get the whole ''stand by your manager'' and ''we're not a sacking club'' sure, fine.

But some important parts of the job criteria of being a Manchester United manager is to (in no order):

• Promote Youth
• Be respectful to not tarnish the name of the club
• Play exciting attacking football
• Winning multiple titles

Jose has achieved one of the above 4 important things; promoting youth.

Why would a job reward or stand by someone who is not capable of providing what they're hired to do? If you were failing to deliver at your job you would be fired. Why should this be treated any different? He isn't doing it for free, he's on a salary not matched by any manager in the world (apart from Pep). He's paid to do a job he's failing to do. We're supposed to be the biggest club in the world not a fecking charity.

 

[redshaw]

If he weighs up a 12m payoff against the damage it will do to his reputation and potential future earnings, it doesn't seem quite as stupid

Hiring a quitter doesn't sound appealing.

Most resignations I can think of from a bad situation are usually player managers or number 2 coaches who step into management and find out the pressure is too much and want out.

 

[Skills]

If he weighs up a 12m payoff against the damage it will do to his reputation and potential future earnings, it doesn't seem quite as stupid

He won't be earning that kind of money again.

Unless he heads off to China or decides to manage Qatar or something. Which is actuated what I think he'll end up doing next.

 

[JonDahl]

I don't even know if he is the problem or not, we are an absolute shambles of a club at the minute and I doubt there's a man in world football who could fix us, Fergie maybe but that sadly won't happen.

He’s definitely the reason the football is shit.