I remember this period and I completely agree. It was a real head scratcher that Pogba wasn't playing. But give it a couple of years and there's a whole new spin on a "fergie/pogba" feud lol.
The Mourinho Thread: Should he stay or go? | Sacked
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Just wishful thinking on your part I believe. The writing will be firmly on the wall from every corner of the media before Jose is gone, we've got awhile to wait yet.
The two-week break in October would be the perfect time. Get him in after the Valencia game, before the Newcastle game at OT. Easy game to get to know the players before they go on internationals.
Hell yeah, and to think that he had to endure so much criticism too, the dutch pundits could hardly bear to give him compliments after the great performance.
Tactically speaking he was rather good i thought, but on the personall level he is indeed often rather "small". You would not nessecarily attribute much of a sense of humour with him either. I think the Dutch NT was kinda his confort zone in that regard with players around that would ignore his lesser sides for the service he could be to their carreers.
I do think he would have been acceptable as a manager for the Belgian NT providing we could even have afforded him, even despite his shortcommings.
If we lose against WHU I really hope he goes because things will get even more embarrassing. I'd rather see us play attacking football and lose a couple of games down the way than play this shitty dull football and still lose games.
Oh really, tell me more what happened?
Jose should grow a pair of testicles, own up to his poor buys, lack of tactical nous in 2018 and admit the job as manager of MUFC is just too big for him.
After spunking £300 million mostly on dross he still cannot come up with an attack minded team who play attractive football.
It's just bore after snore if we're lucky we draw and we want no more.
Jose out now!
After spunking £300 million mostly on dross he still cannot come up with an attack minded team who play attractive football.
It's just bore after snore if we're lucky we draw and we want no more.
Jose out now!
Regarding the 6 games, it doesn't even matter what happened last season. Even if we finished fifth, you can't ask for a manager to be sacked after 6 games. It just doesn't happen. That is if you were still willing to give him time at the end of May. I'm guessing that most who were unhappy with him then, were only willing to give him more time because we finished second, since they probably didn't like the football. I can't really see any other reason these people were willing to give him time. It's not like anyone believed he would change and start playing attacking football.
Of course I'm not saying that people are basing their opinion only on 6 games, that would be ridiculous. By highlighting that we're only 6 games in, I'm trying to make some people realise/admit that the reason they have changed their mind already is because they are influenced by other things than actual football. As I said, you can't make a proper evaluation of the football if you're affected by how Mourinho is acting.
If Mourinho hadn't said anything controversial since the summer, I'm pretty sure we wouldn't have this many reaching their tipping point already. Now, I'm not saying people should be robots and not be affected at all by this, only that from my perspective, it's an overreaction. People keep assuming that he's lost the dressing room without really knowing what is going on yet.
You are aknowledging that you are tired of everything that's being said and that it's a factor in your stance on Mourinho. That's fine, it's not that easy to keep a clear mind with everything that's going on, and some level of bias will inevitably be there. It's just the hysteria from some people that's tiresome and disruptive.
I have no problem with fans who are done with Mourinho and have properly explained why they're against him. I'm just annoyed with those who are just waiting for things to go wrong, actively wanting us to lose, going hysterical and overreacting to every little thing they read or with any negative result.
When it comes to myself, I can say that at this point, I'm not sure anymore who is more culpable, the manager or the players. Some things have to be down to the manager, like tactics and man management. But when you watch us play, there are so many simple things that the players fail at, like missing simple passes, which is leading to counters for the opposition, missing easy chances and individual lapses from defenders. Then you look at how some of the players are so devoid of creativity. I just can't put some of these things on the manager.
I think that managers can only do so much, without enough quality in the squad. Imo it's a combination of that and Mourinho's tough and controversial management style that doesn't work with these set of players. It could also be that he has lost motivation because of all the fallouts he's had in different teams lately.
He is the one that has bought many of these players though, and you can't just let him buy a new set of players after the amount we've spent. That has to be on him, and he will have to make it work with what he has this season, otherwise he'll be gone, which looks likely at the moment. But we still do need a bigger sample of games, and we also need the Pogba vs Mourinho thing to settle before being able to make an informed decision.
If I don't factor in all that's been said and going on, on the side, I think he has done a decent job to get us 2nd place, despite the football not being easy on the eye. I don't really care about the football being attractive, as long as it's effective, so that isn't a factor for me. But this is a new season, and if we don't improve soon, he will have to go. You can't give a manager too many chances these days, since it's all about instant results.
It will be interesting to see though, how
much the new manager can get out of these players.
Isn't that what I said? I was asking if anyone wants us to lose tomorrow, and I didn't get many answers.It rose because they started off as Jose in's - who then got tired and wanted him gone. They then reverted back to being Jose in's due to better performances and to &fro from there. The people who wanted him gone - like me who could see the third season syndrome coming from miles away would see no need to change the poll. However Some have their high hopes of Jose crushed (Jose in's) - whilst some had low to moderate hopes from the start (Jose outs)- like Sir Bobby would not switch his mind.
Overall the Dutch world of football punditry just disliked him on a personal level. Dutch tend to be very open (in Belgium terms perhaps boorish) with their negative remarks and they easily would justify going arguably too far if it was for the sake of humour at the expense of another. It's more complex though than i describe it, cultural things always are, but there would be plenty of shows where they would talk down on his personallity with borderline comments and sometimes outright (perhaps funny) insults. Many Dutch people would be able to handle that with some style, not LVG.
Furthermore there was very few belief in LVG on grounds of his personallity and playstyle. Honestly there was nothing wrong with the playstyle but the dutch found enough reason to complain since it was not the glorious cruyff like football they would crave from nationalist sentiments. Let us say that the Dutch are not always the most realistic in their expectations or the most sportive to take the loss, also they lost 2 WC finals and there is national hurt there.
LvG did appear to get along well with his players and staff though, and at poits afaik due to the remarks he would not even communicate anymore with the homefront rather choosing to keep to his circle.
A lot of them should have swallowed many of their words after the good performance, but in their arrogance and unwllingness to loose face many would not come back from the personal remarks.
It would have been somewhat different if he would have worked for Belgium. Belgians would typically be more reserved and tactfull with these things.
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Get who in? If Mourinho gets sacked, there will probably be an interim manager until we can get who we want.
Have to ask: Where did this "JOSE RUNNIN ROUND ABUSIN' EVERY1 CALLIN EM SHIT ALL THE TIME" (throwing them under the bus) narrative come from? It gets mentioned about 6 times a page in every thread. Maybe I don't read enough, maybe I read to much but I haven't seen Mourinho running around abusing his players and if I have seen it, they haven't short of deserved it.
Such a weird self fulfilling narrative.
@Esquire I will respond to you in kind, your post broke and it didn't alert me. I'm heading out but will respond later today or maybe tomorrow.
Such a weird self fulfilling narrative.
@Esquire I will respond to you in kind, your post broke and it didn't alert me. I'm heading out but will respond later today or maybe tomorrow.
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Re SAF versus Pogba: This can't be compared with whats going on now with manager and player. What happened before was about a young player who knew he was remarkably talented and wasn't getting enough opportunies to express himself on the football field, and couldn't see that changing in the forseable future either. He saw his chance to go to Juve and play his football there and he took it. Good on the lad you can't critisize him for believing in himself.
It was objectively the best decision he's ever made career wise yet with a little revisionist history,it's somehow become a stick to beat him on for a certain sect of 'fans'
They truly live in another reality
Fair.
But also, plenty of managers have been sacked after 6 to 10 games into a new season, it does happen. I agree with people who actively want things to go wrong are a disgrace. At the end of the day, I'll always want the team to win no matter what but I just don't see Mourinho being the man to take us forward in a positive direction. Unfortunately, I am caught up in Mourinho's antics and it's all part of a mass accumulation of things at this stage. I find him argumentative, saying the wrong things and generally bringing unnecessary negative attention to the club, in what is a bad time for us on the pitch. Funnily enough, I used to love the old Jose, the charismatic 'special one' who the press loved. I never understood why the Spanish press never took to him the like the English ones did, but now I can see why.
As I said, I don't think a new manager is going to be a quick fix and if we have to appoint an interim like Carrick / McKenna while we wait for the right man, then so-be-it. But I do feel that Mourinho won't turn this around and he's a collective part of what is a mass blame really. Unfortunately we can't sell a whole squad, nor will the Glazers sack Woodward so Mourinho is the easiest part of the rot to remove. I can't say whether he's lost the dressing room as much as you can't say he hasn't - we simply aren't privy to any actual inside information - but I can say what I see and I think there definitely looks like there's friction in the camp. Yeah the media will come up with sensationalist bullshit for clicks, sales etc, but at least some of what's been written must be even partly true. All of this constant negative scrutiny coupled with terrible on-field performances and a lack of any clear tactics or direction has brought me well and truly to end of my tether. I was wrong about Mourinho, I really believed he would have a long and successful tenure here. I thought he would make Old Trafford an absolute fortress again and teams both domestically and in Europe would be terrified at the prospect of playing us. We both know that's not the case.
@SupaFella thanks for the detailed reply - if they didn't like LVG I dread to think what their thoughts were on Blind
If it happens that we lose the next couple of matches, then it is possible he could be sacked. But our record right now isn't terrible, it's not what it should be but it doesn't warrant a sacking yet imo.
Mourinhos antics would probably be tolerated if we were playing better. At the moment I understand why they aren't for some people. At the same time, we should still support the team while he's here. It seems like some are desperate to be proven right about the third year syndrome, so they can't wait for bad things to happen. Since we don't really know how bad things are between the players and Mourinho, it's best to calm down and wait until we actually know what's going on, despite being against him. It's not in the clubs best interest for these things to be happening, even if you don't think Mourinho should stay. It's enough that the press are creating a negative atmosphere by inevitably blowing things out of proportion, but it's unnecessary to be fueled even more by the fans.
Mourinho will be gone anyway if the results don't satck up, and I don't think the board will let us drop down the table too much before they sack him. They decided to let him take on this season, now they have to give him more time. The worst thing you can do is decide to go forward with the wrong man and then sack him only a few games in to the season.
We can't just assume that there is chaos in the dressing room, the players will stop playing and we will lose every match. No matter if you like the situation or not, you have to actually wait and see if that's really true.
I agree that an interim would probably be the best way to go if he goes, since we probably won't have that many options right now.
People have this opinion that sacking Mourinho will automatically turn pogba into a world class midfielder , Sanchez will start banging in hat tricks and lukaku will stop missing clear cut chances.
Even if Mourinho is sacked, does anyone really trust Woodward to get the right man in and the right players in? I don't. If you asked me who I'd rather have running the football side of things, Woodward or Jose, I'd pick Jose every time.
Seeing in the other thread a few people hoping we lose so they can be proved right about Jose and hopefully that's just fans of other teams on a windup because if not that's a disgrace.
Seeing in the other thread a few people hoping we lose so they can be proved right about Jose and hopefully that's just fans of other teams on a windup because if not that's a disgrace.
I agree that sacking him now would probably not see the team perform up to their expected level, but you could argue that Mourinho should be getting more out of the team at his disposal if he was willing to play a bit more adventurous style compared to the way we're playing now. There seems to be a confidence issues as well, and this comes down to the manager too.
Exactly. Zidane until the end of the season, then he goes DoF.
People for some reason have the idea that removing Mourinho might mean players get better? Where ever have they got that idea from I wonder?
The problem with that is that Pogba isn't really as good as he is supposed to be. He is our best player but still, he's not a superstar, and he shouldn't be able to get away with it either. The others aren't as good as him but in every team there are a few very good players who are important to the team, and they know that. If you know that the team losing you will have a big impact, I don't see why you wouldn't dare go against the manager, when you know others have got away with it. It just should never be allowed to happen, every manager and people in football know this. There are just too many potential complications if you let that happen.
Although, I'm guessing that player power will only increase in football, like it has in the NBA, where the stars are demanding moves left and right, and have zero loyalty. There are too many selfish and immature players these days, but the amount of money floating around isn't helping. Pogba is showing these signs and it's not likely that it will change.
Is there actually player power though? Except for Messi and Ronaldo I haven’t seen anyone publicly distrespect their manager and get away with it! Mourinho doesn’t count as he just falls out with anyone with abit of imagination. Eden Hazard is doing very fine without him. He once told him he needs to work harder. Like the saying goes hard work pays off when your talent isn’t working. Only problem is knowones talent is working at United, which is why we all want a bunch of Mo Farah’s.
There are plenty of people wishing that we lose, who have been open about it. Who knows how many more there are, but are probably just embarassed to admit that they do. In the times before the internet, no one would even dare say that among fans in real life, they would get smacked upside the head real quick.
Sack Woodward before Mourinho. Obviously that is not going to happen BUT he is the main issue here along with the Glazers. We will stumble from one shit show to the next with him running things. Even a technical director won't change anything as everything has to be given the green light by the Glazers anyway. Get used to years more of mediocrity, and i don't say that whimsically, i genuinely believe that.
I'm not saying it's that big of a problem today but I'm assuming it will increase like it has in basketball. Just speculating. When you look at how much money is going around and how easy it is to go public with anything, it's only natural that players will have more power. Pogbas case is similar to some cases in basketball, and it has constantly been increasing there.
But he's that any different to us bragging about 2nd place last season, saying how we finished above Liverpool when it's obvious they prioritised CL, looking only to finish inside top4.
Also the same Mourinho slatted Benitez for winning EL saying it's 2nd tier trophy .
Cmon now you're generalising basing your opinion on few off opinions. Even during LVG, people were being super patient and were asking for better football for if anything for starter.
That's the biggest reason they sold him as proven when they went on a shopping spree post Coutinho sale, they had money to spend in patches before the sale. Sure Coutinho wanted to leave but if they had the money to make them competitive sooner, they probably would have kept him.
EDIT: If you have any doubts look no further than when Liverpool tried to negotiate the price down for VVD which ended up in Southampton reporting them. After that in January when they've raised funds by selling Coutinho they paid what Southampton was asking.
Only City had better squad and you know it very well, problem is we've fallen into this trap of calling our players to be not good enough due to other managers massively improving their players, whilst Mourinho failed to improve anyone, really, maybe you could only make a case for Fellaini.
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Was he bought as the best player or was he bought on a cheap and was improved by Klopp and his system?
I preferred Fellaini under LVG. Remember when we battered City.
They made him. He wasn't all that at Roma. Klopp just let's them play attractive and attacking football. Something we lack under this dinosaur of a manager.
They have hardly been the blocker during the past 5 years. I'd be happy if we had different owners, but they are not the biggest issue right now, and neither is Woodward.
Woodwards problem is that he needs to keep his gob shut, but apart from that the board have given Jose an awful lot.
A DOF and a new manager is whats required.
4:2 one?
Can't say you're wrong, LVG was also using him all over the pitch as well, it's really hard to make a case if any of our players has improved under Mourinho.
Ability to win trophies doesnt count ?
Woody wont be sacked, hes just the mouthpiece for the Glazers. I can see both arguments for Mourinho being refused Perisic and Alderwierald. They would have both been a gamble and probably wanted high wages and a long contract. Im not saying they would have wanted as much as Sanchez, but hes a good example of buying a very good player on his day, but those days are very few and far between. On the otheer hand if you are keeping the manager then you should trust his judgement, but once again his record of bringing players in is debateable whether they are any good.
If he really is playing McTominay at CB, he can feck off. Scott's only trait is he's tall. If that alone is enough for Jose to think he's a good fit for CB then his tactics are done and dusted. Bloke's a busted flush.
Playing with 3 at the back against a team near relegation
Three at the back doesn't necessarily mean defensive.Playing with 3 at the back against a team near relegation
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