The MMA thread

Raoul said:
Tony and Khabib are at the same level, so it would be a close fight.
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I just don't think he has the power, there is a huge amount of overrating around tony because he's a good guy and a bad ass in a division of assholes.

He has 2 wins since 2017 (against Cowboy and a washed up Pettis) and has less rounds and hardly any more minutes than McGregor whose been practically retired. His last big win was RDA in 2016... Other than that there was Kevin Lee in between the Cowboy and Pettis fights).

One fight a year for 3 years I just don't see what others seem to in him. He's tough but he's going to get taken down and pounded for 20 minutes.
 
padr81 said:
I just don't think he has the power, there is a huge amount of overrating around tony because he's a good guy and a bad ass in a division of assholes.

He has 2 wins since 2017 (against Cowboy and a washed up Pettis) and has less rounds and hardly any more minutes than McGregor whose been practically retired. His last big win was RDA in 2016... Other than that there was Kevin Lee in between the Cowboy and Pettis fights).

One fight a year for 3 years I just don't see what others seem to in him. He's tough but he's going to get taken down and pounded for 20 minutes.
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Power is just one part of the equation. What about volume, stamina, creativity, BJJ, etc.

Tony is not afraid of being taken down. Khabib might be able to take him down and control him for a few rounds, but he will have to work his ass off like never before. No one he has faced before has the ground skills and cardio of Tony. By round 3, Tiramisu gonna be gasping for air.

By the end of the fight, he will join the others.

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padr81 said:
I just don't think he has the power, there is a huge amount of overrating around tony because he's a good guy and a bad ass in a division of assholes.

He has 2 wins since 2017 (against Cowboy and a washed up Pettis) and has less rounds and hardly any more minutes than McGregor whose been practically retired. His last big win was RDA in 2016... Other than that there was Kevin Lee in between the Cowboy and Pettis fights).

One fight a year for 3 years I just don't see what others seem to in him. He's tough but he's going to get taken down and pounded for 20 minutes.
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I don't know anyone who has actually followed the UFC over the past decade, who thinks Khabib would smash Ferguson. Khabib is better on the ground but Tony is probably the better all around fighter in terms of having a broader variety of striking, better stamina, and incredible heart. This is why it would be a chess match of a fight where it would be impossible to say who would have the upper hand.
 
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Raoul said:
I don't know anyone who has actually followed the UFC over the past decade, who thinks Khabib would smash Ferguson. Khabib is better on the ground but Tony is probably the better all around fighter in terms of having a broader variety of striking, better stamina, and incredible heart. This is why it would be a chess match of a fight where it would be impossible to say who would have the upper hand.
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I can see quite a few side bets in this thread before the fight!
 
Dirty Schwein said:
Just notice Connar had a pop at Felder in his post fight interview... what was that about?
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Yeah it was random, I know Felder has said some stuff about him in the past but nothing to controversial. I wasn't sure if it was to wind up Masvidal etc who have constantly named him and he just didn't even acknowledge them.

Masvidal was honestly cringeworthy during that whole post fight stuff, was hard to watch, looked like he'd fallen in love with McGregor.

Fortitude said:
His HGH gut will consume him sooner or later.
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Haha possibly. I can't stand him, constantly talks like he's the smartest guy in the room and everyone else is an idiot when in realty I think it's the opposite.
 
Raoul said:
Conor is very good at adapting. He came out in the 2nd Diaz fight and did enough to win (barely).

As for Khabib, its literally 50/50 on whether he beat Ferguson, so whoever wins that would probably be under pressure to fight Conor next. Either way, he's still far too young to retire.

Personally, I'd like to see Conor fight Gaethje next at LW or else Colby or Masviadal at WW
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‘Wonderboy please. Masvidal makes the most sense and I’m sure would be a massive pay day. Actually there are two massive pay days at 170 for him, Diaz and Masvidal. Personally I would think he wins them both and starches Masvidal In the first round.

Wonderboy is probably another good tune up fight but it would be very interesting to see how both go about the fight. Wonderboy and Holloway are the ones I want to see. Masvidal 3rd. No interest in watching Kahbib try to sniff someone’s jock for 20 minutes. Same with Usman.
 
Andersons Dietician said:
‘Wonderboy please. Masvidal makes the most sense and I’m sure would be a massive pay day. Actually there are two massive pay days at 170 for him, Diaz and Masvidal. Personally I would think he wins them both and starches Masvidal In the first round.

Wonderboy is probably another good tune up fight but it would be very interesting to see how both go about the fight. Wonderboy and Holloway are the ones I want to see. Masvidal 3rd. No interest in watching Kahbib try to sniff someone’s jock for 20 minutes. Same with Usman.
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If he continues down the 170 road, he will be a title challenger before too long. Usman has beaten nearly every top ranked fighter, so you would have to imagine that a title shot would be next after a win there.

The biggest problem is that both roads end for him with a loss I think. Khabib is too good a grappler and has already shown how he can shut him down. Usman would be more of the same.

There is also the issue that Usman is one of the most boring fighters in MMA. It would be tough promoting a fight the way he rambles on about nothing.
 
Maluco said:
If he continues down the 170 road, he will be a title challenger before too long. Usman has beaten nearly every top ranked fighter, so you would have to imagine that a title shot would be next after a win there.

The biggest problem is that both roads end for him with a loss I think. Khabib is too good a grappler and has already shown how he can shut him down. Usman would be more of the same.

There is also the issue that Usman is one of the most boring fighters in MMA. It would be tough promoting a fight the way he rambles on about nothing.
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He just fought a month ago in a fight of the year contender. I know he's had some duds but he provide a good show.

I like watching McGregor fight he is always entertaining but I don't quite get this stuff about Khabib and Usman being boring fights, it's a narrative he's forced cos it doesn't suit him and people have bought in to it. It's mixed martial arts you have to adapt to your opponents game. If he prefers "proper fights" as he calls them then fair play to him if he's not going for titles and wanting to fight Diaz, Cerrone, Masvidal etc there's no problem with that but if he wants titles he has to go through people like Usman or Khabib.
 
Oggmonster said:
He just fought a month ago in a fight of the year contender. I know he's had some duds but he provide a good show.

I like watching McGregor fight he is always entertaining but I don't quite get this stuff about Khabib and Usman being boring fights, it's a narrative he's forced cos it doesn't suit him and people have bought in to it. It's mixed martial arts you have to adapt to your opponents game. If he prefers "proper fights" as he calls them then fair play to him if he's not going for titles and wanting to fight Diaz, Cerrone, Masvidal etc there's no problem with that but if he wants titles he has to go through people like Usman or Khabib.
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Sorry, probably phrased it wrong in my post. I meant he was one of the most boring fighters in the UFC as a personality.

Pressers, interviews, Instagram, whatever he is doing, he just rambles on and on. I don’t think he would be great building up a fight of that magnitude.

Purists won’t approve, but it’s personalities that sell fights, especially if your style isn’t the most eye catching.
 
Maluco said:
Sorry, probably phrased it wrong in my post. I meant he was one of the most boring fighters in the UFC as a personality.

Pressers, interviews, Instagram, whatever he is doing, he just rambles on and on. I don’t think he would be great building up a fight of that magnitude.

Purists won’t approve, but it’s personalities that sell fights, especially if your style isn’t the most eye catching.
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Ah fair comments yeah he does come across as a bit dull and tries to hard in stuff like that.

I think Conor can carry a lot of that by himself in fairness, obviously it helps if he has someone to play off as well (the Diaz ones stand out probably) but I think people will tune in to his fights regardless now, the hype for this one was ridiculous compared to other recent UFC events, the next one will be bigger cos of how easy he made it look.
 
Oggmonster said:
Rogan was shocking during the moment the doctor came in, embarrassing to listen to. Can't wait til he finally fecks off been terrible for years.
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Agreed, he’s generally terrible these days. It’s all been downhill for him since Goldie left.
 
Fortitude said:
Don't know where all this overrating of McGregor is suddenly coming from.
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Not that hard to work out surely?!? He just fought this weekend, people are reacting immediatley. I don't see anyone really over rating him massively to? He won the fight without getting hit or breaking a sweat, it's pretty impressive even if it is against a seasoned choker. Most comments seem to be against the strikers he'd put up a good fight and against wrestlers/grapplers he'd struggle. That's been what people of thought of him for a long time. Seems fair comments.

Raoul said:
Agreed, he’s generally terrible these days. It’s all been downhill for him since Goldie left.
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Yeah I don't know if he's lost interest or gets exposed more cos the other co commentators call him out on some stuff and the table as a whole is more knowledgeable (not hard when Goldberg knew nothing at all it seemed like) but he does have some really bizarre takes on things these days.
 
Oggmonster said:
Not that hard to work out surely?!? He just fought this weekend, people are reacting immediatley. I don't see anyone really over rating him massively to? He won the fight without getting hit or breaking a sweat, it's pretty impressive even if it is against a seasoned choker. Most comments seem to be against the strikers he'd put up a good fight and against wrestlers/grapplers he'd struggle. That's been what people of thought of him for a long time. Seems fair comments.



Yeah I don't know if he's lost interest or gets exposed more cos the other co commentators call him out on some stuff and the table as a whole is more knowledgeable (not hard when Goldberg knew nothing at all it seemed like) but he does have some really bizarre takes on things these days.
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His problem is that over the past couple of years, he has become more famous for his podcast than for his UFC announcing gig - where for years it was the opposite. This has made him a bit of a celebrity to where it seems being a pundit on UFC events is almost beneath him.
 
Raoul said:
His problem is that over the past couple of years, he has become more famous for his podcast than for his UFC announcing gig - where for years it was the opposite. This has made him a bit of a celebrity to where it seems being a pundit on UFC events is almost beneath him.
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Yeah makes sense. Out of all the others I think Bisping is the best, funny and speaks sense. DC is decent enough to, thought Felder didn't have best time at the weekend but personally think he works better in the 2 man booth.
 
Oggmonster said:
Not that hard to work out surely?!? He just fought this weekend, people are reacting immediatley. I don't see anyone really over rating him massively to? He won the fight without getting hit or breaking a sweat, it's pretty impressive even if it is against a seasoned choker. Most comments seem to be against the strikers he'd put up a good fight and against wrestlers/grapplers he'd struggle. That's been what people of thought of him for a long time. Seems fair comments.
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We learned nothing from the weekend - his tank is the biggest question mark and it wasn't tested. Conor needs an actual fight at that weight to be examined and then these extrapolations would make more sense, to me anyway.
 
Fortitude said:
Don't know where all this overrating of McGregor is suddenly coming from.
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Conor is a strange one, because he has his super fans who will always talk him up, and he has his detractors on the other side who want to bring him down. The fact is though, he is a brilliant fighter.

He has now dismantled Cowboy, Alvarez, Aldo etc... Guys who stand on their feet and are not absolutely world class, get annihilated.

He has beaten Mendez, Diaz, Poirier and a much younger Holloway too.

I think the level of grapplers and wrestlers in MMA now will cause him a problem. Even at only 31, it would be very hard for him to keep guys like Khabib and Usman at bay for five rounds. Grapplers that have been doing it since they were little and can crack you if you only worry about takedowns.

That, built in with their crazy stamina, would make it very difficult for him to evolve to be able to beat them at this stage of his career.

As a pure stand-up fighter though, there have been few better in the history of the UFC.
 
Maluco said:
Conor is a strange one, because he has his super fans who will always talk him up, and he has his detractors on the other side who want to bring him down. The fact is though, he is a brilliant fighter.

He has now dismantled Cowboy, Alvarez, Aldo etc... Guys who stand on their feet and are not absolutely world class, get annihilated.

He has beaten Mendez, Diaz, Poirier and a much younger Holloway too.

I think the level of grapplers and wrestlers in MMA now will cause him a problem. Even at only 31, it would be very hard for him to keep guys like Khabib and Usman at bay for five rounds. Grapplers that have been doing it since they were little and can crack you if you only worry about takedowns.

That, built in with their crazy stamina, would make it very difficult for him to evolve to be able to beat them at this stage of his career.

As a pure stand-up fighter though, there have been few better in the history of the UFC.
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This will always be the primary criticism about Conor. He has to diversify his MMA game to be more than just striking. Most wrestlers/grapplers/jiu-jitsu types know that if they can get him to the ground, he will likely tap.
 
Oggmonster said:
Yeah makes sense. Out of all the others I think Bisping is the best, funny and speaks sense. DC is decent enough to, thought Felder didn't have best time at the weekend but personally think he works better in the 2 man booth.
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I think DC is the most eloquent and has the best grasp of what is going down in exchanges. I think Rogan is just from a bygone era.

He stays because of his celebrity, but I don’t think he has the knowledge that modern fighters like Bisping have accumulated over recent years.

Bisping has a quick wit and is really funny at times. I think I like him best for that reason.
 
Raoul said:
This will always be the primary criticism about Conor. He has to diversify his MMA game to be more than just striking. Most wrestlers/grapplers/jiu-jitsu types know that if they can get him to the ground, he will likely tap.
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Do you not think it is too late for that though? Khabib was fighting bears as a child, how do you compete with that? :lol:

In all seriousness though, it’s an evolution of a lifetime of dedication. It would have to be a case of catching them and hurting them and that’s tough to do when you are tired after being held down for two rounds.
 
I think UFC need to think about adding an MRI to the ringside doctors medical equipment for in fight doctors examinations :boring: . Crazy to let Barber fight on with a tear of any size, now she had a full ACL tear. Good luck on her recovery
 
poleglass red said:
I think UFC need to think about adding an MRI to the ringside doctors medical equipment for in fight doctors examinations :boring: . Crazy to let Barber fight on with a tear of any size, now she had a full ACL tear. Good luck on her recovery
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They definitely need to look at something. On the same card, Pennington has never been the same since her corner made her go out for the fifth round against Amanda when she clearly should have been held back.

Barber is only 21, her corner should have done what was best for her too. If corners can’t be trusted to look after their fighters then decisions need to be made on their behalf by someone.
 
Fortitude said:
We learned nothing from the weekend - his tank is the biggest question mark and it wasn't tested. Conor needs an actual fight at that weight to be examined and then these extrapolations would make more sense, to me anyway.
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Fair comments but my point was the talking him up has clearly come cos he just beat someone in devastating, easy fashion it's not a surprise people may got slightly OTT. In fairness though I've not seen much of it in this thread? People just saying what they used to.

I think most comments are the same as they've always been. He's an elite level striker ad a tough match up for anyone else like that, wrestlers will give him problems. All seems fair comments.

Obviously his performance will get scrutinized or talked up/down more cos of who he is that happens when you're the biggest name in your sport.

Maluco said:
I think DC is the most eloquent and has the best grasp of what is going down in exchanges. I think Rogan is just from a bygone era.

He stays because of his celebrity, but I don’t think he has the knowledge that modern fighters like Bisping have accumulated over recent years.

Bisping has a quick wit and is really funny at times. I think I like him best for that reason.
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Yeah I agree with this, just find him hard to listen to now and he takes away from the fights.
 
Maluco said:
Conor is a strange one, because he has his super fans who will always talk him up, and he has his detractors on the other side who want to bring him down. The fact is though, he is a brilliant fighter.

He has now dismantled Cowboy, Alvarez, Aldo etc... Guys who stand on their feet and are not absolutely world class, get annihilated.

He has beaten Mendez, Diaz, Poirier and a much younger Holloway too.

I think the level of grapplers and wrestlers in MMA now will cause him a problem. Even at only 31, it would be very hard for him to keep guys like Khabib and Usman at bay for five rounds. Grapplers that have been doing it since they were little and can crack you if you only worry about takedowns.

That, built in with their crazy stamina, would make it very difficult for him to evolve to be able to beat them at this stage of his career.

As a pure stand-up fighter though, there have been few better in the history of the UFC.
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I'd reserve judgement on that (at this weight class) until he's been in there with some of the dynamite hitters who won't freeze and he has to dismantle. When it was announced he was coming back at the weight he did, it was laughed at by the big dogs in the division who told him he better go back down before they get their hands on him (Usman being the most vocal).

Anderson mentioned Wonderboy in his post, to my mind, that's a massive overreach for Conor as Wonderboy is the real deal when it comes to stand up, but who knows? It would be a revelation he went in there with him and beat him, to me.

In terms of pure stand-up Conor's done well, but I wouldn't put him up there with his record yet, but if he were to go in there and hang with the guys being talked about, I would put him up a level in my own rankings. Edwards, Woodley, Thompson, Masvidal - in pure stand up, it would be a leap for Conor because he's now at a weight where his chin is going to get tested in a way it wasn't at lightweight, which, strategically is a different proposition and one that asks the question of how he'd approach these guys - at the lighter weights, Conor is more brazen as he walks his man down.

Just, I wouldn't extrapolate any of this from the fight we just saw, as it was already known that he hits hard and is smart and a finisher - the things that need to be tested in this division weren't and it leaves us none-the-wiser on where Conor is as a returnee.
 
Oggmonster said:
Fair comments but my point was the talking him up has clearly come cos he just beat someone in devastating, easy fashion it's not a surprise people may got slightly OTT. In fairness though I've not seen much of it in this thread? People just saying what they used to.

I think most comments are the same as they've always been. He's an elite level striker ad a tough match up for anyone else like that, wrestlers will give him problems. All seems fair comments.

Obviously his performance will get scrutinized or talked up/down more cos of who he is that happens when you're the biggest name in your sport.
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Perhaps I sound like a Grinch. Not that I don't have regard for Conor, just believe in the wise words that there are levels to this and they should be respected.
 
Maluco said:
Conor is a strange one, because he has his super fans who will always talk him up, and he has his detractors on the other side who want to bring him down. The fact is though, he is a brilliant fighter.
As a pure stand-up fighter though, there have been few better in the history of the UFC.
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Such a load of crap. UFC is not about 'boxing' or standing up, it's about every and any facet of fighting. Something which a fighter like Khabib has demonstrated in spades.
From my eye, ConMan is actually just a sub standard boxer, who knows he can't make it in boxing, so tried UFC instead.
 
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sammsky1 said:
Such a load of crap. UFC is not about 'boxing' or standing up, it's about every and any facet of fighting. Something which a higher like Khabib has demonstrated in spades.
From my eye, ConMan is actually just a sub standard boxer, who knows he can't make it in boxing, so tried UFC instead.
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Eh? The comment was just complimenting a strength in his game, how is that crap just cos there's more aspects to MMA?

I take on board what @Fortitude said about McGregor getting talked up slightly by some people on the internet etc but it equally seems people will find anything to dismiss him with as well.

UFC isn't just about wrestling or cardio etc either but I doubt you'd bat an eyelid if someone praised Khabib or Diaz for example.
 
Oggmonster said:
Eh? The comment was just complimenting a strength in his game, how is that crap just cos there's more aspects to MMA?

I take on board what @Fortitude said about McGregor getting talked up slightly by some people on the internet etc but it equally seems people will find anything to dismiss him with as well.

UFC isn't just about wrestling or cardio etc either but I doubt you'd bat an eyelid if someone praised Khabib or Diaz for example.
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You said "As a pure stand-up fighter though, there have been few better in the history of the UFC." There is no such thing in MMA.

It's just a term invented by fans of certain fighters to deny the flaws of their fighter and denigrate other superior MMA fighters.

From what I've seen, Khabib and Diaz have demonstrated prowess across all MMA skills: stand up, sit down, roll around included.
 
sammsky1 said:
You said "As a pure stand-up fighter though, there have been few better in the history of the UFC." There is no such thing in MMA.

It's just a term invented by fans of certain fighters to deny the flaws of their fighter and denigrate other superior MMA fighters.

From what I've seen, Khabib and Diaz have demonstrated prowess across all MMA skills: stand up, sit down, roll around included.
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Stand-up fighting is a part of UFC which can be identified and assessed separately. It's the same as saying someone is good at free kicks - it doesn't make him a great all-around footballer, it's just indicating that he's great at that aspect of the game. Like McGregor is great as a stand-up fighter. There's no disputing that.

Your hatred for him is shining through and it's not pretty.
 
sammsky1 said:
You said "As a pure stand-up fighter though, there have been few better in the history of the UFC." There is no such thing in MMA.

It's just a term invented by fans of certain fighters to deny the flaws of their fighter and denigrate other superior MMA fighters.

From what I've seen, Khabib and Diaz have demonstrated prowess across all MMA skills: stand up, sit down, roll around included.
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I didn't say it someone else did.

But as @RobinLFC correctly says it's a pretty common trait in any sport to comment on someones strengths and weaknesses. Seems odd you'd single out someone for praising McGregor's stand up which is a perfectly valid point and praise of him.
 
RobinLFC said:
Stand-up fighting is a part of UFC which can be identified and assessed separately. It's the same as saying someone is good at free kicks - it doesn't make him a great all-around footballer, it's just indicating that he's great at that aspect of the game. Like McGregor is great as a stand-up fighter. There's no disputing that.

Your hatred for him is shining through and it's not pretty.
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If he is a 'great stand up fighter', he should be competing in boxing. Except he cant be, because he's actually sub standard at pure boxing, and only looks good as one when boxing is garbled up into the smorgasbord that is MMA.

And I'm totally comfortable with why I hate Conar, after everything I know about him.
 
Also, that post makes it sound like Khabib's stand-up hasn't be criticised as a weakness in the past, which obviously isn't true. There are plenty of fighters (and indeed succesful fighters) with great disparities between their relative strengths and relative weaknesses. If we weren't able to look at the different aspect individually then we'd never be able to assess a fighter properly.
 
sammsky1 said:
If he is a 'great stand up fighter', he should be competing in boxing. Except he cant be, because he's actually a sub standard at pure boxing, and only looks good as one when boxing is garbled up into the smorgasbord that is MMA.

And I'm totally comfortable with why that I hate Conar, after everything I know about him.
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He doesn't just rely on boxing though, there's more to stand up than boxing. He is better level than plenty of MMA fighters in boxing but no obviously wouldn't be an elite boxer which has been proven already.

I'd say your obvious dislike for him really clouds your judgement as being able to judge him as a fighter in all honesty. Fair enough if you don't like him but by making up stuff like there is no such thing as a great stand up fighter in MMA to dismiss his ability is a slightly odd take on the sport (or any sport really.)
 
sammsky1 said:
If he is a 'great stand up fighter', he should be competing in boxing. Except he cant be, because he's actually sub standard at pure boxing, and only looks good as one when boxing is garbled up into the smorgasbord that is MMA.

And I'm totally comfortable with why I hate Conar, after everything I know about him.
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Surely its all relative?
Plus put a pure boxer in mma with the boxing stance and threat of takedowns and that great standup boxer is next to useless on his feet.
Floyd gets destroyed by Conor last Saturday if he was in Cowboys position and hes the best ever.
 
Did Conor really make $80m from this fight?

And if he did, the money route will determine his opponents, not what would be the most tasty.

So you're looking at:

Nate
Masvidal
Khabib (if he beats Ferguson)

And a repeat bout against Masvidal or the closing of a trilogy vs Khabib if he somehow manages to win that.

Can't see anyone else entering the fray unless Conor calls them out directly.
 
Oggmonster said:
He doesn't just rely on boxing though, there's more to stand up than boxing. He is better level than plenty of MMA fighters in boxing but no obviously wouldn't be an elite boxer which has been proven already.

I'd say your obvious dislike for him really clouds your judgement as being able to judge him as a fighter in all honesty. Fair enough if you don't like him but by making up stuff like there is no such thing as a great stand up fighter in MMA to dismiss his ability is a slightly odd take on the sport (or any sport really.)
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I come to my conclusion objectively.

Crossfit is a very similar sport to MMA for me, in that it requires mastery of many different skills to be a champion. The current woman's champion Tia-Clair Toomey is a good example of what I mean. She can be classified as a 'great weightlifter' as she has won olympic medals in weightlifting, which she then utilises in crossfit competitions.

The way Conar's 'stand up' is lauded by his fans, I'd expect him to demonstrate that specifically at the highest level. He is not able to, and it only ever looks good when mixed into MMA. He may be 'better' than other MMA fighter's at it, but that isn't saying much, given the praise he receives. On the other hand, there are many MMA fighters who excel at highest levels in other MMA disciplines like BJJ, (or MT, kick boxing etc) but will be denigrated as 'nut-huggers'.

This is why I believe what I do.
 
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