The MMA thread

You are right about her age, and I think part of the surreal with once such dominant fighters is when they lose their superhuman edge. Valentina is still a great fighter, but she's clearly waning and more vulnerable than we've known, which opens the doors to fights like we're seeing these days that are tight, hard-fought contests, win or lose.

As such a dominant fighter and legend, I doubt anyone else gets title shots unless she says she's out or had enough. The credit she has in the bank to make such calls is un-paralleled in her division so it'll come down to her outlook how, or when, this ends (to the extent she isn't obliterated in a re-match, of course). It wouldn't surprise me to see these two fight a third and fourth time (as @Raoul mentioned) if Valentina's heart is still in it

Personally I hope she moves up to bantamweight. Winning a second belt would be a nice boon for her legacy, and that division could seriously use an injection of interest as it looks utterly moribund, especially if Bueno Silva's suspension is upheld. Shevchenko still looks top-level to me, but I think she's slowed down enough in the striking exchanges that she's no longer invincible at flyweight. Bantamweight might actually be kinder to her in that regard as she should still have the speed to run circles around plodders like Pennington and Pena on the feet.

I don't particularly want flyweight to be held up further either, as there's some interesting title fights to be made for Grasso vs Blanchfield and Fiorot, and potentially Tatiana Suarez if she moves up in weight.
 
According to the judges, Shevchenko would've won if not for the absurd 10-8 to Grasso in the final round. I agree with Shevchenko that they gifted Grasso the win to not ruin the vibe of Mexican independence day. Sad, but that's the way these things shake out sometimes.

I know, specially when D'Amato is involved. If Sal D'Amato scored it for Valentina, trust me, then the UFC wanted her to win (and secure a trilogy or a move up for Valentina to make champ-champ status), not the other way around (The guy who scored the 10-8 must have been acting solo :lol: ).

You are right about her age, and I think part of the surreal with once such dominant fighters is when they lose their superhuman edge. Valentina is still a great fighter, but she's clearly waning and more vulnerable than we've known, which opens the doors to fights like we're seeing these days that are tight, hard-fought contests, win or lose.

As such a dominant fighter and legend, I doubt anyone else gets title shots unless she says she's out or had enough. The credit she has in the bank to make such calls is un-paralleled in her division so it'll come down to her outlook how, or when, this ends (to the extent she isn't obliterated in a re-match, of course). It wouldn't surprise me to see these two fight a third and fourth time (as @Raoul mentioned) if Valentina's heart is still in it

Yep. It's hard to believe when it happens to these special fighters so we make all kind of mental gymnastics that prevent us from seeing it until the loses start to mount up. I hope Volkanovski is immune to that and can retire as a 40 years old Champion.

I agree that Valentina has a lot of credit in the bank so chances are she will be calling what's next for her. I agree with @Pat_Mustard too in that Valentina's best move (and chance to win gold again) is moving up to the Champ-less 135 lbs division.




Dana's Contender Series starts in 2 hours 45 minutes.
 
Personally I hope she moves up to bantamweight. Winning a second belt would be a nice boon for her legacy, and that division could seriously use an injection of interest as it looks utterly moribund, especially if Bueno Silva's suspension is upheld. Shevchenko still looks top-level to me, but I think she's slowed down enough in the striking exchanges that she's no longer invincible at flyweight. Bantamweight might actually be kinder to her in that regard as she should still have the speed to run circles around plodders like Pennington and Pena on the feet.

I don't particularly want flyweight to be held up further either, as there's some interesting title fights to be made for Grasso vs Blanchfield and Fiorot, and potentially Tatiana Suarez if she moves up in weight.
Something we rarely get to find out about the top class champions is their constitution when it comes to handling defeat. How they process it, how they come back from it and how much of their own aura of invincibility gets shattered. You have your Naseem Hamed's and in MMA, I think Conor has the equivalency there in terms of never being the same. Then you have the likes of Usman or Stipe, who just looked... troubled and not their usual selves, or a Yan, who lost his mind. Obviously it's a spectrum, as you know, but always a fascinating thing to observe because we finally get to see what lies beneath for these fighters who rise to the top either in glorious, stylish fashion or with a dominant, overbearing run. Although Valentina nestles between the two [categories] as she was utterly dominant for so long, but was also ridiculously stylish (as rounded as Mighty Mouse); we've really got to see that she has the true heart of a champion with how she has carried herself in defeat and approached the rematch.

I will say that I think her hands aren't advantageous verses Grasso, and once that registered for her in the first round, she lost some of her approach play confidence - it's a very different ball game when you just control the fight and can let off shots at will as opposed to when the returning fire is not only hitting you, but extremely potent - I actually feel like there are parallels between this fight and Adesanya vs Strickland in that sense with the deviation being that Valentina switched it up and went for takedowns etc. to offset the problems she was having in boxing range.

Why am I mentioning any of this unprompted? Because I think we've had an insight into the pride Shevchenko has and why I don't think she's capable of letting sleeping dogs lie - I can only see her going up after winning the belt, and only then saying yes to going up if Grasso doesn't want or is denied a rematch by the company (Dana). I can't see her entertaining going up without taking care of business in her own division - her own warrior's pride will not allow it, I think. That's why this whole sudden saga is surreal; out of nowhere, Valentina has a true rival who she'll want to put to bed (if she can), who will preoccupy her and whatever plans she had prior to their bouts. I think if they fight a third time and Valentina can't get the win, she'll retire, btw.

What you've said is sound, but given Valentina's age and how long a rematch and potential second (fourth) bout will take to conclude, she could be pushing 38 by the time she's satisfied this contest is put to bed. She'll probably diminish some with the passage of time and these Grasso fights taking a lot out of her, so on the assumption she can win the belt, between retiring and going for champ-champ, she'd be faced with a really tough decision.

Personally speaking, I think there's maybe 2, pushing 3 fights max left in her before she calls it a day.
 
I know, specially when D'Amato is involved. If Sal D'Amato scored it for Valentina, trust me, then the UFC wanted her to win (and secure a trilogy or a move up for Valentina to make champ-champ status), not the other way around (The guy who scored the 10-8 must have been acting solo :lol: ).



Yep. It's hard to believe when it happens to these special fighters so we make all kind of mental gymnastics that prevent us from seeing it until the loses start to mount up. I hope Volkanovski is immune to that and can retire as a 40 years old Champion.

I agree that Valentina has a lot of credit in the bank so chances are she will be calling what's next for her. I agree with @Pat_Mustard too in that Valentina's best move (and chance to win gold again) is moving up to the Champ-less 135 lbs division.




Dana's Contender Series starts in 2 hours 45 minutes.
For sure, and they have to be given the benefit of the doubt before we can be sure it is actually happening. But we know with Valentina, whose work has been beyond tidy in the past, that's she definitely starting to joust with Father Time and that's problematic given her preferred style.

Volkanovski seems to be about the most self-aware fighter in the sport and I reckon he'll masterfully handle his exit strategy.
 
Something we rarely get to find out about the top class champions is their constitution when it comes to handling defeat. How they process it, how they come back from it and how much of their own aura of invincibility gets shattered. You have your Naseem Hamed's and in MMA, I think Conor has the equivalency there in terms of never being the same. Then you have the likes of Usman or Stipe, who just looked... troubled and not their usual selves, or a Yan, who lost his mind. Obviously it's a spectrum, as you know, but always a fascinating thing to observe because we finally get to see what lies beneath for these fighters who rise to the top either in glorious, stylish fashion or with a dominant, overbearing run. Although Valentina nestles between the two [categories] as she was utterly dominant for so long, but was also ridiculously stylish (as rounded as Mighty Mouse); we've really got to see that she has the true heart of a champion with how she has carried herself in defeat and approached the rematch.

I will say that I think her hands aren't advantageous verses Grasso, and once that registered for her in the first round, she lost some of her approach play confidence - it's a very different ball game when you just control the fight and can let off shots at will as opposed to when the returning fire is not only hitting you, but extremely potent - I actually feel like there are parallels between this fight and Adesanya vs Strickland in that sense with the deviation being that Valentina switched it up and went for takedowns etc. to offset the problems she was having in boxing range.

Why am I mentioning any of this unprompted? Because I think we've had an insight into the pride Shevchenko has and why I don't think she's capable of letting sleeping dogs lie - I can only see her going up after winning the belt, and only then saying yes to going up if Grasso doesn't want or is denied a rematch by the company (Dana). I can't see her entertaining going up without taking care of business in her own division - her own warrior's pride will not allow it, I think. That's why this whole sudden saga is surreal; out of nowhere, Valentina has a true rival who she'll want to put to bed (if she can), who will preoccupy her and whatever plans she had prior to their bouts. I think if they fight a third time and Valentina can't get the win, she'll retire, btw.

What you've said is sound, but given Valentina's age and how long a rematch and potential second (fourth) bout will take to conclude, she could be pushing 38 by the time she's satisfied this contest is put to bed. She'll probably diminish some with the passage of time and these Grasso fights taking a lot out of her, so on the assumption she can win the belt, between retiring and going for champ-champ, she'd be faced with a really tough decision.

Personally speaking, I think there's maybe 2, pushing 3 fights max left in her before she calls it a day.

You are right. Dana just said at the post contender series press conference that they will make the rematch.

Valentina goes into surgery for a broken hand so I'm guessing the rematch won't happen any time soon though.

For sure, and they have to be given the benefit of the doubt before we can be sure it is actually happening. But we know with Valentina, whose work has been beyond tidy in the past, that's she definitely starting to joust with Father Time and that's problematic given her preferred style.

Volkanovski seems to be about the most self-aware fighter in the sport and I reckon he'll masterfully handle his exit strategy.

Sounds good to me. My heart could not handle him going out in any other way than gracefully.
 
You are right. Dana just said at the post contender series press conference that they will make the rematch.

Valentina goes into surgery for a broken hand so I'm guessing the rematch won't happen any time soon though.



Sounds good to me. My heart could not handle him going out in any other way than gracefully.
Broken hand? Did they say what round that occurred in? If that was early in the fight, it shows even more what an elite fighter and mentality she has! Makes me rethink her strategy adjustment, too!

No tells (I think) if that happened early. Tempted to watch the fight back now.

re. Volk. He's about the most matter of fact fighter there is. Calls it even before the fights and then goes and executes. He's bordering on prescient. Very much doubt he'll do anything but exit the sport flawlessly.
 
Broken hand? Did they say what round that occurred in? If that was early in the fight, it shows even more what an elite fighter and mentality she has! Makes me rethink her strategy adjustment, too!

No tells (I think) if that happened early. Tempted to watch the fight back now.

re. Volk. He's about the most matter of fact fighter there is. Calls it even before the fights and then goes and executes. He's bordering on prescient. Very much doubt he'll do anything but exit the sport flawlessly.

Broke her thumb, apparently in the 1st.
 
@Fortitude I think you'll almost certainly be proven right about Valentina's mindset and intentions re: regaining her flyweight belt, particularly now that Dana has green-lighted it. I just hope Grasso has time to take a fight while Shevchenko is recovering from this hand surgery, as I hate seeing divisions held up to this extent.
 
@Fortitude I think you'll almost certainly be proven right about Valentina's mindset and intentions re: regaining her flyweight belt, particularly now that Dana has green-lighted it. I just hope Grasso has time to take a fight while Shevchenko is recovering from this hand surgery, as I hate seeing divisions held up to this extent.
“Dana! She doesn’t fights nobady but me!” :lol:

Just imagining the rage from Valentina if Grasso then lost to someone else! :lol:
 
“Dana! She doesn’t fights nobady but me!” :lol:

Just imagining the rage from Valentina if Grasso then lost to someone else! :lol:

Interestingly, it seems Valentina would be open to let the division keep going and even leaves the option open to jump into 135lbs right away.


“It’s hard for me to say exactly what I think is going to be next,” Shevchenko said. “Right now, I’m thinking about taking the [scans] I need for my hand, make sure that I will be healed for the next fight, and I don’t want to hold anyone in the division from moving forward as well. That’s why when I’m ready to fight, I will fight anyone. If people want to see the trilogy, I’m here and I think it’s deserved as well. If they want to see me move up [in weight], I’m moving up. If they want to see something else, I want to fight anyone, because this is my mindset. I’m not choosing my opponent, I just go and fight.”

“It’s hard to say whatever right now,” Shevchenko continued. “I understand I don’t know what kind of injury I have in my hand and I don’t know how long it’s going to take to heal it. I only don’t want no one to sit without the fight and just wait. I know the girls want to fight, they need to fight, because this is our fighter life. This is our career, this is how we get money at the end. This is the only thing I’m saying. I don’t want to say anything in a rush, without the circumstances, how soon I can get back. If I was healthy 100 percent, I would be like, yes, let’s go, trilogy in three months, I’m ready. But I cannot say [that] right now because I don’t know the situation of my health, of my hand.”
 
Interestingly, it seems Valentina would be open to let the division keep going and even leaves the option open to jump into 135lbs right away.


“It’s hard for me to say exactly what I think is going to be next,” Shevchenko said. “Right now, I’m thinking about taking the [scans] I need for my hand, make sure that I will be healed for the next fight, and I don’t want to hold anyone in the division from moving forward as well. That’s why when I’m ready to fight, I will fight anyone. If people want to see the trilogy, I’m here and I think it’s deserved as well. If they want to see me move up [in weight], I’m moving up. If they want to see something else, I want to fight anyone, because this is my mindset. I’m not choosing my opponent, I just go and fight.”

“It’s hard to say whatever right now,” Shevchenko continued. “I understand I don’t know what kind of injury I have in my hand and I don’t know how long it’s going to take to heal it. I only don’t want no one to sit without the fight and just wait. I know the girls want to fight, they need to fight, because this is our fighter life. This is our career, this is how we get money at the end. This is the only thing I’m saying. I don’t want to say anything in a rush, without the circumstances, how soon I can get back. If I was healthy 100 percent, I would be like, yes, let’s go, trilogy in three months, I’m ready. But I cannot say [that] right now because I don’t know the situation of my health, of my hand.”
That's some serious class, even more than I gave her credit for. What a legend she is. Truly.

The dignity she's shown post-fight, as well as how she fought injured without bringing it up at all just pushes her up in terms of respect. I wonder who her male equivalent great ones are who would have the same kind of pedigree whilst nursing a loss and being dethroned. Everyone is classy in victory, except a select few, but that thing about holding up divisions, or even being sour when they have a right to be; I'm not sure who stacks up to her?

@Pat_Mustard, looks like you may well get your wish, if the fans make enough noise about it!
 
That's some serious class, even more than I gave her credit for. What a legend she is. Truly.

The dignity she's shown post-fight, as well as how she fought injured without bringing it up at all just pushes her up in terms of respect. I wonder who her male equivalent great ones are who would have the same kind of pedigree whilst nursing a loss and being dethroned. Everyone is classy in victory, except a select few, but that thing about holding up divisions, or even being sour when they have a right to be; I'm not sure who stacks up to her?

@Pat_Mustard, looks like you may well get your wish, if the fans make enough noise about it!

Wonderboy if he’d won the title.
 
That's some serious class, even more than I gave her credit for. What a legend she is. Truly.

The dignity she's shown post-fight, as well as how she fought injured without bringing it up at all just pushes her up in terms of respect. I wonder who her male equivalent great ones are who would have the same kind of pedigree whilst nursing a loss and being dethroned. Everyone is classy in victory, except a select few, but that thing about holding up divisions, or even being sour when they have a right to be; I'm not sure who stacks up to her?

@Pat_Mustard, looks like you may well get your wish, if the fans make enough noise about it!

Mighty Mouse probably the classiest of all?
 
Good shouts. MM for me, too. Volk, you can easily see he'd have the same class about him, or you'd certainly not be surprised if he did (has to lose first).
 


F7UFS2QWQAA0gep


What in the hell :lol:
 
I've slowly been working my way through recordings I missed whilst abroad and got to the Gane fight yesterday.

I made a post in here some years back stating that the HW division will eventually look as good as the other divisions in tems of raw ability, athleticism and fitness (as opposed to the blubbering wrecking machines who tended to pad out the division back then) and fighters like Gane, Aspinall and so forth were whom I envision will be the norm.

The guys athleticism and reflexive qualities are astounding. It's not that he's so big and heavy-handed that stands out; it's that the UFC is finally getting the calibre of athlete that should have been there a long time ago. He's not the pinnacle of the division... Jones made sure to remind everybody of that... but he is going to be a pioneer in the way Cain was, he and Aspinall, actually.

The both of them have future champion quality. Jones is good for maybe 3 fights maximum, and even then, I doubt he does 3. After that, these young guns have the arena to themselves, ushering in a new age and setting the bar on fitness, ability and athleticism themselves.

It's great that Aspinall has called Gane out, and it's a surprise that Gane seemed to avoid responding in kind - sort of, as maybe Aspinall's grappling and BJJ is putting the frighteners on him? I think those two are destined to be trilogy fight rivals. Can't even call a winner between them, but I think it'll be the athletic pinnacle of the division to date when/if they pair off.

It's not often you get to be glowing about the HW's but these two, and what they will go on to represent, is a real breath of fresh air. Gane's striking and stand up has a legitimate claim to be regarded p4p, which isn't something you get to say about the heavyweights very often.

Before he did his knee, I thought Aspinall was destined to be a champion in the division (had posts stating such), but we'll see just how much he has in terms of his pre-injury standard in a contest against Gane. Very much hope that's a fight that gets made immediately.
 
I'm a little late with it but the Rodtang vs Superlek fight was brutal (ONE, the promoter, put it for free on YouTube, I believe no restrictions).
Superlek missed weight (and is already bigger) so it was downgraded to a 3 rounds non title fight if I understand correctly but they both went at it really hard. Very competitive.
 
Last edited: