The MMA thread

Man i love lewis but is a good think that hw has fighters like gane who have great cardio and agility for a big guy and also many many weapons in his arsenal and not just one punch man.

Can't wait for the belt fight but i know there will be money talks and red tomato will try to pay as little as possible and its really hard for a fight to happen before december
 
Gane basically won by constantly switching stances and remaining out of Lewis’ range on defense - then using jabs and leg kicks to gradually wear him down.

If ever there was a perfect game plan to beat Derrick Lewis - this was it.

 
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Oh boy Gane has just 10 pro fights and already looks like a potential GOAT

It's tough to see anyone beating Francis in a standup fight. For example, if Jones fought Francis, you can count on him taking Francis down. But that's not Gane's style.

I think Francis beats him but he'll need to be at the top of his game if he is to do so. Still, it's easier to picture Gane beating Ngannou than Gane beating Jones.
 
Also, Aldo X ''Killashaw'' is a must. Although I wouldn't mind seeing the UFC throw O'malley in there against any of them.
 
Also, Aldo X ''Killashaw'' is a must. Although I wouldn't mind seeing the UFC throw O'malley in there against any of them.

Oh boy, i love suga sean and i love all the haters he moves. I think he might be a real contender but after LW, BW is the second most talent staked division and its really really hard to get to the top 5. Good for Aldo for returning to the winning path but the same, the title is very hard to reclaim currently
 
I appreciate O'malley aswell. He has an exciting offensive style and a colorful personality. Just wish he starts fighting to inflict damage instead of searching for the perfect moment to get a highlight reel.
 
Oh boy Gane has just 10 pro fights and already looks like a potential GOAT

It's tough to see anyone beating Francis in a standup fight. For example, if Jones fought Francis, you can count on him taking Francis down. But that's not Gane's style.

I think Francis beats him but he'll need to be at the top of his game if he is to do so. Still, it's easier to picture Gane beating Ngannou than Gane beating Jones.
Not sure that can be said of Gane, although it's not out there as a statement given he's still on an upward trajectory.

The UFC, or even MMA heavyweight division is young and undeveloped when compared to lighter divisions where you have to be something special to reach top 5-10. A fighter like Gane, actually being mobile, in shape, tactical and rounded, is the future of the weight class, eventually.

All these fat, lazy untrained fighters padding out the division will be phased out as the bar raises. Just because you're big and powerful, it's no reason to forgo technique, diet, cardio and tactical mindfulness. Those who don't get with the program should be outliers, like Andy Ruiz shocking the boxing world.

What Gane did to Lewis should be par for the course; once actual athletic and proper heavyweights enter the scene, it will and should be them and only them fighting it out for the top spots, which I think is already in motion with N'Gannou, Miocic, Jones and the aforementioned already becoming an acceded unit who will jostle for the belt amongst themselves for at least the next couple of years if Dana's scumbaggery doesn't scupper everything.

Lewis being baffled by basic movement and general competence and ringmanship shines a light on him and the organisation more than it marks Gane as something special, I think. Lewis is a top tier plodder - one of the best of the donkeys, but fighters like him and the rest who he's contending with below those top slots are the sign of a division that's still in its fledgling stages and maybe 5 years from now, you'll not see these types in main events.

Gane was earmarked for the top end of the division and potential champion ages ago, but his next few opponents will really let us know where's he's at. It's been a cakewalk thus far for him marching through a division where his fitness has given an edge before his athleticism is even mentioned. He's bouncing on his feet and good to go deep into bouts where opponents are out of gas after 3-4 minutes of the first round. He'll not encounter that again so we'll see what happens when he himself is taken into deep waters and has to think about more things than a hail Mary and quick first round explosion.

Sorry if I'm harping on, but the HW division has been a bugbear of mine for a while and I've praised those who take it seriously and train like those in lighter divisions do (Cain was a real pioneer) and those who have been given the opportunity, but don't make the best of themselves really are a kick in the teeth to all the hopefuls in stacked divisions who train intently and can only hope to get the nod.

The room for growth in the men's HW division is as vast as some of the female divisions who will eventually have part-timers and those without proper training camps and conditions phased out completely.
 
Can anyone tell me the attraction of this sport? It seems little different from watching you tube videos of people kicking the shit out of each other. I realise it is popular but I just don't get it.
 
Can anyone tell me the attraction of this sport? It seems little different from watching you tube videos of people kicking the shit out of each other. I realise it is popular but I just don't get it.
It can be hard to get past the brutality, but there is a lot of artistry to MMA. I grew up on Ninja Turtles and karate movies, so I'm sure that's part of it. I don't think it's as much fun as it used to be, though. When it was all about different disciplines against each other I think it was more fun.
 
Can anyone tell me the attraction of this sport? It seems little different from watching you tube videos of people kicking the shit out of each other. I realise it is popular but I just don't get it.
MMA is exactly that mixed martial arts. It combines striking ( boxing, kickboxing, muay thai, karate, taekwondo) and grappling ( wrestling, jujitsu, judo) . It started out as specialists of a particular discipline against each other but has now evolved to its own unique martial art. You get terns like mma wrestling and mma boxing because, wrestling is a bit different when you could get kneed in the face going for an entry or boxing is a bit different when you can get taken down at any second. As for the appeal it's top class athletes and fighters testing themselves against each other in probably the most challenging and unforgiving sport there is.
 
Can anyone tell me the attraction of this sport? It seems little different from watching you tube videos of people kicking the shit out of each other. I realise it is popular but I just don't get it.
Initially started off as a way to see which disciplines are the best. Is boxing superior to karate? Is BJJ better than wrasslin'? It used to be really fun.

Then it evolved and now you see well-rounded combat sports specialists compete to see who is the best.

For me though, I got into this sport when boxing became too political. The best fights seemed to never happen due to too many factors. We never really got to see Mayweather vs. Pacquiao in the height of their abilities for example. However, this is starting to creep into MMA now too, which is annoying.

All these fat, lazy untrained fighters padding out the division will be phased out as the bar raises. Just because you're big and powerful, it's no reason to forgo technique, diet, cardio and tactical mindfulness. Those who don't get with the program should be outliers, like Andy Ruiz shocking the boxing world.
What? This is crazy... you mean to say that you DON'T want to see guys brawl, who's weight cutting consists of Burger King meals and their training is walking around the block twice? You DON'T want to see Big Country tear up the division as the best "athlete" in the HW division? :lol:

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First time I've seen Gane fight - certainly looks the part doesn't he? He made Lewis look absolutely amateur.

Ngannou is a completely different animal though, that should be a really good match up.
 
Can anyone tell me the attraction of this sport? It seems little different from watching you tube videos of people kicking the shit out of each other. I realise it is popular but I just don't get it.

As others have said, it used to be about different styles competing. I remember before MMA was really know on tv when sky used to show Bushido (I think it was called) and it had some American wrestler (yes, the WWE kind) vs a karate champion. He got the shit kicked out of his legs, but managed to grab the little shit and gave him an actual powerbomb...it was all over then :lol:

But yeah the MMA is way more boring now as everyone has to train and fight the same, there's not as big a style/technique gap any more.
 
First time I've seen Gane fight - certainly looks the part doesn't he? He made Lewis look absolutely amateur.

Ngannou is a completely different animal though, that should be a really good match up.

On the flip side of the argument, Ngannou hasn't faced anyone with the movement that Gane has, and it's going to be interesting to see what happens if the fight goes deep and Ngannou doesn't connect cleanly in the first round and a half.
 
Initially started off as a way to see which disciplines are the best. Is boxing superior to karate? Is BJJ better than wrasslin'? It used to be really fun.

Then it evolved and now you see well-rounded combat sports specialists compete to see who is the best.

For me though, I got into this sport when boxing became too political. The best fights seemed to never happen due to too many factors. We never really got to see Mayweather vs. Pacquiao in the height of their abilities for example. However, this is starting to creep into MMA now too, which is annoying.


What? This is crazy... you mean to say that you DON'T want to see guys brawl, who's weight cutting consists of Burger King meals and their training is walking around the block twice? You DON'T want to see Big Country tear up the division as the best "athlete" in the HW division? :lol:

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It’s maddening when you see so many of them wobbling with play dough midriffs and a tank that can't go 5min at a decent output let alone when pushed by the opponent, where you've got two of them gassed inside 3min.

When the sport gets up there in years, N'Gannou, Gane and the like will be the norm and it can't come soon enough!

It's interesting at the moment that the few elite athletes at HW either came from strict disciplines with ridiculous fitness codes of their own or really strenuous physical jobs.

Cormier, Cain, Jones all wrestling; Gane and Stipe kickboxing; N'Gannou (and Stipe) hard, laborious jobs.

You have to wonder how much farther some of the tubsters could've gone with the lifestyle and diet of the supposed professional sportsmen they're professing to be.
 
On the flip side of the argument, Ngannou hasn't faced anyone with the movement that Gane has, and it's going to be interesting to see what happens if the fight goes deep and Ngannou doesn't connect cleanly in the first round and a half.
Stipe is known to be a decent mover no?

I think that fight showed that Ngannou has learnt to be more patient and not just blow himself out early.

Hopefully Jones makes his HW debut soon, throwing him into the mix with these 2 should be interesting.
 
As others have said, it used to be about different styles competing. I remember before MMA was really know on tv when sky used to show Bushido (I think it was called) and it had some American wrestler (yes, the WWE kind) vs a karate champion. He got the shit kicked out of his legs, but managed to grab the little shit and gave him an actual powerbomb...it was all over then :lol:

But yeah the MMA is way more boring now as everyone has to train and fight the same, there's not as big a style/technique gap any more.
Bushido was class :lol: :lol: The big hairy-arsed wrestler who’d just eventually suplex everyone to death:lol::lol:
 
Stipe is known to be a decent mover no?

I think that fight showed that Ngannou has learnt to be more patient and not just blow himself out early.

Hopefully Jones makes his HW debut soon, throwing him into the mix with these 2 should be interesting.

Is he? stipe has great cardio and wrestling for a heavyweight, but do you think he has noteworthy movement?

I agree about Ngannou showing maturity and patience in the second Miocic fight that makes him more dangerous moving forward.

I'd also love to see Jones in there but Dana White just said that Jones will not be fighting in 2021. The last fight he had was early 2020 and he isn't getting any younger.
 
Is he? stipe has great cardio and wrestling for a heavyweight, but do you think he has noteworthy movement?

I agree about Ngannou showing maturity and patience in the second Miocic fight that makes him more dangerous moving forward.

I'd also love to see Jones in there but Dana White just said that Jones will not be fighting in 2021. The last fight he had was early 2020 and he isn't getting any younger.
I'm no expert but I know they say Stipe is (or was) a decent boxer. He's closer to a Gane style than a Lewis anyway.

I don't really understand why it's taking Jones so long, I guess he's wanting to feel comfortable with the extra weight?
 
Can anyone tell me the attraction of this sport? It seems little different from watching you tube videos of people kicking the shit out of each other. I realise it is popular but I just don't get it.

In summary: Some people like boxing, some like wrestling, others prefer martial arts.

MMA galvanizes each of these into a single sport whilst retaining many of the rules of the original sport. It’s also well marketed which has resulted in individual fighters developing fan followings, as well as fans from specific nations getting behind their preferred fighters.

As for the bit about people fighting each other on YouTube - the UFC was similar to that for its first decade of existence until American politicians (like John McCain) labeled it human cock fighting and threatened to regulate it. To avoid this, the UFC voluntarily implemented strict rules and guidelines about 20 years ago to protect fighters, which have been getting gradually refined over the years.

It’s a lot of fun and somewhat addictive once you get to know the fighters and the dramatic narratives that drive individual matchups.
 
I'm no expert but I know they say Stipe is (or was) a decent boxer. He's closer to a Gane style than a Lewis anyway.

I don't really understand why it's taking Jones so long, I guess he's wanting to feel comfortable with the extra weight?
Gane has genuine multi-directional movement: fighting going backwards; lateral; pushing off either leg and effortlessly circles either direction on a dime. He's the only heavyweight who can choose to fully evade with elusive movement rather than having to trade. His kickboxing background shines through and most of what he's doing in there is instinct trained into him over years. He can also fight seamlessly on either side of his body, which makes chasing him very dangerous as he's always got a heavy counter loaded on either hand or foot.

He's a problem, but he's not fought anyone who even tries to cut the octagon; just clangers trying to load up bombs and one-shot him, which is nigh on impossible with zero set up.

Jones has to get used to a body loaded up with 50-60lb more weight, which, if he's doing it properly, will take a long time. He's said himself, he's going up to a division where he's at risk of going to sleep with no natural advantages over his opponents, plus he's not known for power in the first place, so it's a huge risk he's taking going up.

Also, Dana is making an example of him with his usual feckry.
 
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Gane has genuine multi-directional movement: lateral; pushing off either leg and effortlessly circles either direction on a dime. He's the only heavyweight who can choose to fully evade with elusive movement rather than having to trade. His kickboxing background shines through and most of what he's doing in there is instinct trained into him over years. He can also fight seamlessly on either side of his body, which makes chasing him very dangerous as he's always got a heavy counter loaded on either hand or foot.

He's a problem, but he's not fought anyone who even tries to cut the octagon; just clangers trying to load up bombs and one-shot him, which is nigh on impossible with zero set up.

Jones has to get used to a body loaded up with 50-60lb more weight, which, if he's doing it properly, will take a long time. He's said himself, he's going up to a division where he's at risk of going to sleep with no natural advantages over his opponents, plus he's not known for power in the first place, so it's a huge risk he's taking going up.

Also, Dana is making an example of him with his usual feckry.

I was just thinking about the point you made earlier and it made me realize that the narrative about heavyweight unable to move due to their size is nonsense, think about the size of Hoost, Schilt or Le Banner. Jones even though he has a primarily a wrestler background seems to be the only one who could compete with Gane in a purily technical fight which is a shame for the division because we are not even talking about guys that compensate with wrestling, they are subpar strikers and wrestlers.
 
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I was just thinking about the point you made earler and it made me realize that the narrative about heavyweight unable to move due to their size is nonsense, think about the size of Hoost, Schilt or Le Banner. Jones even though he has a primarily a wrestler background seems to be the only one who could compete with Gane in a purily technical fight which is a shame for the division because we are not even talking about guys that compensate with wrestling, they are subpar strikers and wrestlers.
Absolutely, but they say many elite big men pick other sports where their athleticism earns then far more than MMA, so we're not getting much of the cream of the crop, but I firmly believe they will slowly seap into the sport and it'll look almost wholly different at HW when padded out with the kind of guys with amazing technique, great fitness levels and levels of athleticism rarely seen at HW at the moment.

Gane looks quite freakish out there, but just think in boxing, you have guys the size of Tyson Fury who can fight on the balls of their feet for 36 minutes straight and it's fair to say we've got a long way to go before we see the same kind of athletic specimens we've seen in HW boxing over the decades in MMA.

The sport is really young in relative terms, however, so it's only natural that there's some way to go before we see a mean of naturalised, phenomenal heavyweights padding out the top 20, but it'll get there.

I believe if Cain's body didn't fail him, he'd have forced the bar in pretty much the same way Mighty Mouse did for his division, as what it would have taken to beat him in terms of fitness would demand a lot more from the fighters of his era.

It's crazy to me to see professionalism nosedive only in this division - even that the UFC stand for it.
 
Yes, and his half Boston crab that submitted everyone :lol: Good times, I’m off to YouTube
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The third suplex on already limp, lifeless opponents got me every time! Albright was terrifying because setups were so good.

Where I used to train at, they said this is the type of guy who you wanna be afraid of and not take lightly as just one of those on concrete and you're gambling with meeting your maker.
 
@JPRouve



09:10

but the whole vid is worth the watch as it touches upon what Gane ushers into the HW division.


I was watching GrangeTV(Fabricio Itte) and he seems to think that Gane is a different animal too. He thinks that Ngannou is the favorite because he has freakish power but from a technical standpoint, he thinks that only someone like Miocic and obviously Jones are close to him. It's interesting to see how this fight seemingly changed the HW division, I really can't weight to see Jon Jones fight.

Edit: Also Itte made an interesting point about HW being less athletic, he thinks that it's due to the fact that there isn't a lot of guys that are 6'5" and super athleticwho are also in Martial Arts, he mentioned Semmy Schilt as an example and said that many of these guys have easier ways to make money like Basketball.
 
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I was watching GrangeTV(Fabricio Itte) and he seems to think that Gane is a different animal too. He thinks that Ngannou is the favorite because he has freakish power but from a technical standpoint, he thinks that only someone like Miocic and obviously Jones are close to him. It's interesting to see how this fight seemingly changed the HW division, I really can't weight to see Jon Jones fight.

Edit: Also Itte made an interesting point about HW being less athletic, he thinks that it's due to the fact that there isn't a lot of guys that are 6'5" and super athleticwho are also in Martial Arts, he mentioned Semmy Schilt as an example and said that many of these guys have easier ways to make money like Basketball.
I think a little too much is being made of Gane beating Lewis; it was an easy fight on paper, in my opinion, and it'd always take far more than what Lewis has to beat him.

For me, it's a lot to extrapolate from that that Gane is in the class of the upper echelon, but I can understand why he's perceived as having the style, fitness and smarts to beat N'Gannou. Thing is, N'Gannou is not just power. His timing and movement to set up his shots are not to be sniffed at and he moves and set his feet far quicker than Lewis does, which means he can breach Gane's range quicker than he can react to - if Gane's fighting light, he'll diminish his own power until he plants his feet, that'll invite trades where he will come off the worst of the two. If he sits down on his punches and kicks, he immediately enters N'Gannou's world.

This notion N'Gannou might gas chasing him has no legs for me. N'Gannou is getting better with every fight and does not pointlessly expend massive amounts of energy chasing the KO anymore - him calmly walking forward presents Gane with problems in itself, as, unless he believes he can go the distance and simply outpoint and frustrate Francis, there will be key moments in each round where he has to make crucial decisions on whether to stick or twist.

Finally, N'Gannou will actually cut the octagon off, which someone like Lewis is literally incapable of doing; circling out and away incorrectly just one time then, is potentially night night, which is a completely different level of mental pressure to dealing with a generic plodder who lets you do whatever you want.

All I'd take from the Lewis fight is Gane is what HW's should be, and that Lewis is a very limited, one-dimensional fighter who has no real idea what to do when facing someone who had zero fear of his ability to set up his hail Mary.

Gane vs any one of: N'Gannou, Stipe or Jones would be a fascinating contest for different reasons, but it's a level or two up on what he's breezed through to date, and I don't think that's really being taken into consideration.

Re. The other point, yeah: boxing, NFL, NBA, rugby are all going to be getting the athletic stock well before MMA. The super fit HW Kiwis, Australians and Samoans are not even going to see the inside of MMA training facility before being scouted, for example, and the same theme will run across the world for whatever is the big earner where that potentially great HW MMA fighter is from. Even with regard to combat sports, the talent goes to boxing where potential earnings obliterate what MMA currently pays.
 
I think a little too much is being made of Gane beating Lewis; it was an easy fight on paper, in my opinion, and it'd always take far more than what Lewis has to beat him.

For me, it's a lot to extrapolate from that that Gane is in the class of the upper echelon, but I can understand why he's perceived as having the style, fitness and smarts to beat N'Gannou. Thing is, N'Gannou is not just power. His timing and movement to set up his shots are not to be sniffed at and he moves and set his feet far quicker than Lewis does, which means he can breach Gane's range quicker than he can react to - if Gane's fighting light, he'll diminish his own power until he plants his feet, that'll invite trades where he will come off the worst of the two. If he sits down on his punches and kicks, he immediately enters N'Gannou's world.

This notion N'Gannou might gas chasing him has no legs for me. N'Gannou is getting better with every fight and does not pointlessly expend massive amounts of energy chasing the KO anymore - him calmly walking forward presents Gane with problems in itself, as, unless he believes he can go the distance and simply outpoint and frustrate Francis, there will be key moments in each round where he has to make crucial decisions on whether to stick or twist.

Finally, N'Gannou will actually cut the octagon off, which someone like Lewis is literally incapable of doing; circling out and away incorrectly just one time then, is potentially night night, which is a completely different level of mental pressure to dealing with a generic plodder who lets you do whatever you want.

All I'd take from the Lewis fight is Gane is what HW's should be, and that Lewis is a very limited, one-dimensional fighter who has no real idea what to do when facing someone who had zero fear of his ability to set up his hail Mary.

Gane vs any one of: N'Gannou, Stipe or Jones would be a fascinating contest for different reasons, but it's a level or two up on what he's breezed through to date, and I don't think that's really being taken into consideration.

Re. The other point, yeah: boxing, NFL, NBA, rugby are all going to be getting the athletic stock well before MMA. The super fit HW Kiwis, Australians and Samoans are not even going to see the inside of MMA training facility before being scouted, for example, and the same theme will run across the world for whatever is the big earner where that potentially great HW MMA fighter is from. Even with regard to combat sports, the talent goes to boxing where potential earnings obliterate what MMA currently pays.

You correctly say that Lewis is one dimensional, but Ngannou is a one trick pony himself. He can’t wrestle (whereas Gane is pretty good on the ground), he has not demonstrated any submission skills (Gane has), and hasn’t demonstrated any sort of martial arts skills (even Lewis has done this via his head kicks).

Francis got mad props for developing a bit of a take down defense against Stipe, as if that is some sort of incredible accomplishment worthy of special praise.

At the end of the day he’s still a one trick pony, who can execute his only trick better than anyone else in the sport. His greatest vulnerability is an opponent who shares his speed and athleticism, but with an ability to submit, wrestle, leg kick and box - traits that Gane has in significant abundance.

This is why the fight would be a favorable matchup for Gane.
 
You correctly say that Lewis is one dimensional, but Ngannou is a one trick pony himself.
If you're saying primarily using boxing is one dimensional, fair enough; if you're saying how N'Gannou uses his hands and body is in anyway comparable to Lewis' oafish mauling, you're way off the mark. Francis has hands, and they're extremely dangerous and there's a reason he's connecting so frequently with clean, concussive shots time and again. The power or the over zealous way he tends to end fights gets more recognition than the fact he works set ups to be in those positions in the first place

He can’t wrestle (whereas Gane is pretty good on the ground),
He can't wrestle according to whom, or relative to what scale? He's never going to be in the class of Cain, Jones or Cormier as wrestler (obviously), but in relation to who else can't he wrestle?

It's a fool's errand trying to wrestle N'Gannou in the first place if you're not elite or have no means of setting up your shooting as Blaydes found out the second go round. I don't envisage Gane, whose best and smartest route to victory, is to be on the outside - as far away from the pocket as possible - initiating any kind of wrestling with N'Gannou unless desperate and wobbled. It's not only wrestling to think about, but also exit strategy, which, being in the pocket, is custom made for N'Gannou's hooks and uppercuts.
Francis got mad props for developing a bit of a take down defense against Stipe, as if that is some sort of incredible accomplishment worthy of special praise.
But it is an incredible accomplishment worthy of special praise as it demonstrated a capacity to learn and develop counters in a short period of time relative to the calibre of opponent (the champion) from a position prior of looking lost at sea in the previous contest when faced with the same predicament.

Gane hasn't fought the same class of opponent yet and his resume is still thin to be spoken of like it's a formality he can just carry on as is as he goes up the levels. N'Gannou has fought what some would consider the best HW of all-time twice; the former champ (albeit a broken shadow of himself) and made a mess of the supposed wrestling gatekeeper the second go round. He's also left Rozenstruik as broken shell of a man, whom Gane didn't manage to take out in 15 minutes. You can go as far as to say if Dana wasn't being his usual, crooked self, Gane would have to take maybe two more fights to even get a title challenge.
At the end of the day he’s still a one trick pony, who can execute his only trick better than anyone else in the sport. His greatest vulnerability is an opponent who shares his speed and athleticism, but with an ability to submit, wrestle, leg kick and box - traits that Gane has in significant abundance.
I don't know what you mean by one trick pony, unless you are saying being dangerous with your hands from a multitude of ranges and angles is balled into one umbrella classification.

To the bolded, says who and why? What evidence is there to go along with that line of thinking? To the contrary, there's footage out there of N'Gannou facing off against men his size who he didn't seem to have any advantage over whatsoever where it's just straight, brutal mauling and heart carrying him and not any kind of physical superiority.

Regarding leg kicks. Gane will make that assessment in the octagon as to whether he can extend and retract safely without compromising himself and getting laid out or suddenly off balance or stuck in the pocket. Kicking out at Volkov, Rozenstruik, Dos Santos or Lewis doesn't come loaded with a quarter of the risk it does vs N'Gannou, so we'll see what transpires there.

With regards to boxing, that for me, is the most intriguing factor as Gane has it in him to outright beat N'Gannou to the punch - jabs in particular - but also runs the gauntlet each time and just one poor exchange on his side could end his night. It'll also be interesting to see what happens with N'Gannou if he's on the receiving end of a few stinging jabs. Further to that, if Gane gains the upper hand, pun accepted, he can open up lanes to kick or mix things up. Big ifs; I don't think it's at all a given he goes in there with the same calm and confidence, as controlling space and N'Gannou is a different stratosphere to the fighters he's faced to date.
 
I wrote more than that, but half the post is missing? :confused:

The one time I don't save the post, it half disappears, ffs.
 








Anyway, this was to state N'Gannou has more submissions in their respective MMA careers.

I'm not gonna type all the rest out again. More than a little peeved it's lost in the ether.
 
If you're saying primarily using boxing is one dimensional, fair enough;

Yes - that's precisely what I'm saying. If one can withstand the initial flurry of punches in round one, the blueprint to beat him was established during Stipe 1.

Francis has poor to mediocre cardio due to all the muscle he carries around, so the deeper into the rounds you get with him, the less effective he becomes, thereby rendering his only skillset of boxing (probably better described as brawling) completely useless. At that point, a cerebral fighter with a variety of tools in his arsenal and with good cardio can start dismantling him round by round (as shown below in Stipe 1).




How does Gane factor into all of this ? He's faster than any opponent Francis has faced, has shown he can chip away at fighters from distance with jabs and leg kicks, all the while being agile and intelligent enough to mitigate his opponent's strengths. Do I think Francis' insane early flurry of punches can beat Gane ? Yes of course, although that clearly wasn't the case in Stipe 1 and Stipe isn't nearly as athletic as Gane. At the end of the day, the fighter with one skillset is always going to be at a disadvantage against a comparable opponent with many skillsets.
 
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Yes - that's precisely what I'm saying. If one can withstand the initial flurry of punches in round one, the blueprint to beat him was established during Stipe 1.

Francis has poor to mediocre cardio due to all the muscle he carries around, so the deeper into the rounds you get with him, the less effective he becomes, thereby rendering his only skillset of boxing (probably better described as brawling) completely useless. At that point, a cerebral fighter with a variety of tools in his arsenal and with good cardio can start dismantling him round by round (as shown below in Stipe 1).




How does Gane factor into all of this ? He's faster than any opponent Francis has faced, has shown he can chip away at fighters from distance with jabs and leg kicks, all the while being agile and intelligent enough to mitigate his opponent's strengths. Do I think Francis' insane early flurry of punches can beat Gane ? Yes of course, although that clearly wasn't the case in Stipe 1 and Stipe isn't nearly as athletic as Gane. At the end of the day, the fighter with one skillset is always going to be at a disadvantage against a comparable opponent with many skillsets.

How can you possibly use a blueprint that Stipe himself found redundant in their second fight, to the point he was completely shut out? You're denying N'Gannou's clear progress by doing so. In fact, it'd be playing into his hands trying to approach him in a way he's long since overcome.

And the point about his tank, 'calm Francis', as he has been labelled, does not expend silly amounts of energy trying to take fighter's heads off anymore, so you will have to find a way to exasperate him whilst not getting clocked, which is not easy.

To call what he does brawling is also ridiculous. Lewis and all the other plodders brawl; N'Gannou, as I stated before, sets up and makes clean, concussive connections that don't come about by windmill hands. He makes, and then exploits, those openings, they don't materialise out of thin air.

Like I said in my initial post, teeing off on walking statues like Volkov, Lewis, the hollowed out, crumpled version of Rozenstruik N'Gannou made as well as an increasingly gunshy dos Santos is nothing like doing so when every single extension comes with the risk of an immediate, fight-concluding counter. It's a wholly different ball game and we'll see if Gane even holds his nerve trying to execute that.

I honestly have no idea why you're referencing the first encounter between Stipe and N'Gannou as the foundation of your post - that version of N'Gannou was consigned to history on that very night.

Gane hasn't done nearly enough to state his arsenal is bonafide in top 5 contests. You're using what he's done up to now against a low tier of HW and extrapolating without any grounds. He may well carry he's threats to the top, but that's far from assured, in my opinion. Stipe obviously isn't the athlete Gane is, but he is far, far more battle-tested and proven and in a different tier entirely to this point in time.

It's fair to say in terms of athleticism, this is N'Gannou's sternest test, but that goes by multiples more for Gane - the opponents he's faced are no preparation at all to face N'Gannou.

I don't think you're giving N'Gannou anywhere near enough credit, personally, and worse, you're not acknowledging a clear, linear line of progression and improvement.

I'm bemused by the recency bias Gane's getting as so many are backing him over an opponent who has gone through more, and better opponents to get to the top. We'll see how things go soon enough, I guess!