The MMA thread

[bsCallout]

He has lost two of this past three fights and three of his past 6. These are facts, not opinion. Losing half of your fights whilst being a world class striker is quite an accomplishment.

Losing does not mean he is not a top striker. Don't you understand that? MMA is more than just striking.

He outstruck Nate even in the fight he lost. He outstruck Poirier in the first round in that fight he lost and the second to be honest, except the leg kicks. What else is there? A loss against the best wrestler in the game?

There is nothing that shows Conor is not one of the top strikers in the world, even now. And he can prove it again this weekend, but you won't accept that either for some bizarre reason

 

[Raoul]

Losing does not mean he is not a top striker. Don't you understand that? MMA is more than just striking.

He outstruck Nate even in the fight he lost. He outstruck Poirier in the first round in that fight he lost and the second to be honest, except the leg kicks. What else is there? A loss against the best wrestler in the game?

There is nothing that shows Conor is not one of the top strikers in the world, even now. And he can prove it again this weekend, but you won't accept that either for some bizarre reason

World class striker is the term we're debating. The term infers that someone is one of the best in the business at striking, which doesn't exactly square with losing 3 out of 6 fights. I've seen other fighters get release by the UFC for similar records.

 

[bsCallout]

Conor is a great striker. No doubt about it. The question though is does his power translate to lightweight? His one good win at that weight class was against Eddie Alvarez and he needed like 5-6 clean shots to tko him. His ground game is also weak comparatively.

We just don't know.

No one knocks out Nate. He still rocked Dustin. He took Cowboy out ridiculously quick and well, no one stops King Khabib.

 

[bsCallout]

World class striker is the term we're debating. The term infers that someone is one of the best in the business at striking, which doesn't exactly square with losing 3 out of 6 fights. I've seen other fighters get release by the UFC for similar records.

He went up two weight classes to fight a guy that no one stops.

He lost the arguably the best 155 champ ever.

And he just lost a fight against another top top fighter after striking very well.

None of that says he isn't a top striker.

You keep using losses as an argument for why a striker isn't one the best, in a MMA contest. It's pretty ridiculous. You haven't ever fought have you?

 

[Schmeichel's Cartwheel]

Based on the fact that he hasn't demonstrated he is lately. You don't get to claim you're a world class striker for something you did earlier in your career, whilst not having shown you can do it recently or in the present. I thought this would've been perfectly laid out in previous posts.

It’s tough to say “he’s not a world class striker” anymore given his inactivity. The truth is we don’t know the extent of his skillset diminishment. He’s had about 8 minutes of octagon time in 3 years. He was winning the majority of the exchanges with Poirier, who is a great striker himself.

I’m not really questioning his striking. His commitment, heart, toughness, motivation, and of course conditioning on the other hand, well that’s a different matter.

 

[Raoul]

It’s tough to say “he’s not a world class striker” anymore given his inactivity. The truth is we don’t know the extent of his skillset diminishment. He’s had about 8 minutes of octagon time in 3 years. He was winning the majority of the exchanges with Poirier, who is a great striker himself.

I’m not really questioning his striking. His commitment, heart, toughness, motivation, and of course conditioning on the other hand, well that’s a different matter.

When he's in form he looks very good, albeit in a limited sense because you are always aware that if the fight goes to the ground, its likely over for Conor. He has looked good in his last three fights, he just got outclassed by the grappling GOAT and an actual world class striker.

 

[Raoul]

He went up two weight classes to fight a guy that no one stops.

Nate lost 5 of his previous ten fights going into his first fight with Conor. I wouldn't exactly call that "a guy that no one stops". A lot of people stop Nate, except of course Conor, who got stopped by Nate (and received a complimentary Stockton Slap in the process).

He lost the arguably the best 155 champ ever.

Sorry. No informed person thinks this in the present. Alvarez was in retrospect (including his post UFC record) not particularly good. He fought 7 more times after the Conor fight and only won twice. That's some GOAT.

 

[Oggmonster]

Nate lost 5 of his previous ten fights going into his first fight with Conor. I wouldn't exactly call that "a guy that no one stops". A lot of people stop Nate, except of course Conor, who got stopped by Nate (and received a complimentary Stockton Slap in the process).



Sorry. No informed person thinks this in the present. Alvarez was in retrospect (including his post UFC record) not particularly good. He fought 7 more times after the Conor fight and only won twice. That's some GOAT.

He's been stopped twice and submitted once in his career.

Tell you what this thread goes mad when McGregor fights, I swear everyone collectively loses the plot! I've been guilty of it myself in the past as well.

 

[poleglass red]

He took out cowboy quicker than anyone. He had Poirier admit he was caught bad and he outstruck Nate who doesn't go down to anything. There's nothing to suggest even an inactive Conor isn't a top striker. People here aren't even prepared to admit he's a top class striker if he best Poirier this weekend.

of course he could ko Dustin this weekend, it's the fight game. I don't think Conor has the speed and surprise element he once had, and it's arguable his power has moved up with him. He's one ko at lightweight, 6 yrs ago v Alvarez. The cowboy fight was classic Conor, finish him early, and if he is to beat Dustin, that would be his best route, although I don't think Dustin would be looking to check out as quickly as Cowboy was that night.

 

[Desert Eagle]

We just don't know.

No one knocks out Nate. He still rocked Dustin. He took Cowboy out ridiculously quick and well, no one stops King Khabib.

I agree with the answer being we don't know because of the small and specific sample size.

 

[Raoul]

He's been stopped twice and submitted once in his career.

Tell you what this thread goes mad when McGregor fights, I swear everyone collectively loses the plot! I've been guilty of it myself in the past as well.

I've nothing against Conor. I just don't buy into the special hype that gets applied to him by some. He's a good fighter and the GOAT of hype. He will need a big win if he's to move up in that pecking order in my book. Each recent time he's been given the chance, he's flopped.

 

[bsCallout]

When he's in form he looks very good, albeit in a limited sense because you are always aware that if the fight goes to the ground, its likely over for Conor. He has looked good in his last three fights, he just got outclassed by the grappling GOAT and an actual world class striker.

You're even being completely OTT here. Tell me, why does Conor going to the ground mean the fights over for Conor?

He went to the ground with Poirier, turned him and had Poirier with his back against the fence throwing shoulders and elbows.

He went to the ground with Alvarez, and punished him on the ground and on the feet.

He went to the ground with Mendes and got up and finished him.

He finished Cowboy on the ground.

He lasted long than Gaethje and Poirier against Khabib, on the ground, even though I'm sure you would t say they are bad on the ground. Infact he lasted longer than pretty much everyone Khabib fought who isn't otherwise a top wrestler i.e. Al.

He got finished by Nate on the ground ONLY because Conor was done on the feet.

 

[Oggmonster]

I've nothing against Conor. I just don't buy into the special hype that gets applied to him by some. He's a good fighter and the GOAT of hype. He will need a big win if he's to move up in that pecking order in my book. Each recent time he's been given the chance, he's flopped.

Oh I didn't mean you personally or people criticising him, for what it's worth I'd probably lean more to your way of thinking that he's past his best. It's just the thread collectively seems to lose the plot a bit when it's approaching his fights.

 

[poleglass red]

It’s tough to say “he’s not a world class striker” anymore given his inactivity. The truth is we don’t know the extent of his skillset diminishment. He’s had about 8 minutes of octagon time in 3 years. He was winning the majority of the exchanges with Poirier, who is a great striker himself.

I’m not really questioning his striking. His commitment, heart, toughness, motivation, and of course conditioning on the other hand, well that’s a different matter.

I seen Tyson Fury in a recent interview saying he'd heard in the past that Conor wasn't taking training seriously in the build up to some fights, and even Lobov Artem his sparring partner said the same as well the other day. His 2nd fight v Diaz was probably the best stamina wise we've ever seen of him.You'd imagine or hope for his sake he is putting in the same effort into this camp for this rematch. Motivation I think is a real issue for him, but maybe the chance at redemption will draw one last big effort from him.

 

[bsCallout]

Nate lost 5 of his previous ten fights going into his first fight with Conor. I wouldn't exactly call that "a guy that no one stops". A lot of people stop Nate, except of course Conor, who got stopped by Nate (and received a complimentary Stockton Slap in the process).



Sorry. No informed person thinks this in the present. Alvarez was in retrospect (including his post UFC record) not particularly good. He fought 7 more times after the Conor fight and only won twice. That's some GOAT.

I know you're not really following well but surely you knew I was referring to Khabib.

 

[bsCallout]

of course he could ko Dustin this weekend, it's the fight game. I don't think Conor has the speed and surprise element he once had, and it's arguable his power has moved up with him. He's one ko at lightweight, 6 yrs ago v Alvarez. The cowboy fight was classic Conor, finish him early, and if he is to beat Dustin, that would be his best route, although I don't think Dustin would be looking to check out as quickly as Cowboy was that night.

Of course, this fight is huge for showing Conors current MMA level. That can't be confused with his striking ability though, I really can't understand how that can be questioned.

 

[Raoul]

You're even being completely OTT here. Tell me, why does Conor going to the ground mean the fights over for Conor?

He went to the ground with Poirier, turned him and had Poirier with his back against the fence throwing shoulders and elbows.

He went to the ground with Alvarez, and punished him on the ground and on the feet.

He went to the ground with Mendes and got up and finished him.

He finished Cowboy on the ground.

He lasted long than Gaethje and Poirier against Khabib, on the ground, even though I'm sure you would t say they are bad on the ground. Infact he lasted longer than pretty much everyone Khabib fought who isn't otherwise a top wrestler i.e. Al.

He got finished by Nate on the ground ONLY because Conor was done on the feet.

Some highlights of Conor's ground game prowess

The blueprint of beating Conor used to be to take the fight to the ground, but as Dustin proved recently, even that isn't required any more.

 

[bsCallout]

Some highlights of Conor's ground game prowess

The blueprint of beating Conor used to be to take the fight to the ground, but as Dustin proved recently, even that isn't required any more.

This is how I know you're just trolling and never fought in your life.

The Nate fight was done on the feet, not on the ground. Conor shot for the takedown to give up his back to get out of there.

Khabib absolutely destroyed him just like he did Dustin and Justin, neither of which are poor on the ground. That doesn't reflect bad on Conor who lasted longer than pretty much everyone except Al.

Dustin went straight for the takedown, he just couldn't do anything with it! Couldn't outbox him either so went straight for the legs like a proper martial artist, adapting.

 

[Raoul]

This is how I know you're just trolling and never fought in your life.

The Nate fight was done on the feet, not on the ground. Conor shot for the takedown to give up his back to get out of there.

Khabib absolutely destroyed him just like he did Dustin and Justin, neither of which are poor on the ground. That doesn't reflect bad on Conor who lasted longer than pretty much everyone except Al.

Dustin went straight for the takedown, he just couldn't do anything with it! Couldn't outbox him either so went straight for the legs like a proper martial artist, adapting.

So you're not denying what happened in the pics ? Good.

 

[Raoul]

Oh I didn't mean you personally or people criticising him, for what it's worth I'd probably lean more to your way of thinking that he's past his best. It's just the thread collectively seems to lose the plot a bit when it's approaching his fights.

Yes, its always polemic when it comes to Conor, which isn't helped when random new people show up into a thread and attempt to sound authoritative with zero thread/cred.

 

[bsCallout]

So you're not denying what happened in the pics ? Good.

Absolute WUM, and you're admin?

Youve not defended a single one of your points.

The arrogance of your recent comment too, you've never even fought but just because you've been here posting a long time you've got cred.

 

[Raoul]

Absolute WUM, and you're admin?

Youve not defended a single one of your points.

The arrogance of your recent comment too, you've never even fought but just because you've been here posting a long time you've got cred.

You taking a few MMA lessons doesn't mean you know feck all about MMA or fighting, nor is it vaguely relevant to what we're discussing. You clearly have an aversion to evidence based inquiry and are more interested in promoting your love for McGregor. Its ok, we're used to Conor Derangement Syndrome around here.

I've repeatedly proved to you that Conor is not world class through his recent results, the fact he's been submitted multiple times, the fact that he's got a weak chin, and hasn't beaten anyone of quality in 7 years. That is an eternity in MMA, so until he proves he can do it in the present, he will not be considered world class.

 

[bsCallout]

You taking a few MMA lessons doesn't mean you know feck all about MMA or fighting, nor is it vaguely relevant to what we're discussing. You clearly have an aversion to evidence based inquiry and are more interested in promoting your love for McGregor. Its ok, we're used to Conor Derangement Syndrome around here.

I've repeatedly proved to you that Conor is not world class through his recent results, the fact he's been submitted multiple times, the fact that he's got a weak chin, and hasn't beaten anyone of quality in 7 years. That is an eternity in MMA, so until he proves he can do it in the present, he will not be considered world class.

Few MMA lessons? I've fought boxing, MT and MMA over the past 8 years.

You haven't provided any evidence and you've been refuted at every point. You've offered nothing other than some pictures like a child. Conor Derangement? I don't even like the bloke. Give me Charles everyday of the week.

Results do not prove he's not world class in striking, there is absolutely nothing in it that does. It proves he's been beaten in MMA. You keep ignoring anything any counter because well . . You've posted lots so you've got 'cred'. Perhaps do some fighting instead of posting. As if you know anything about fighting. Calling losing to Poirier humiliating, childish.

 

[Desert Eagle]

I get that McGregor is as unlikable as it gets for many but no need to discredit him as a fighter. The guys resume speaks for itself. Yes he hasn't fought much recently but just go look at the first round against Dustin(2nd fight) again. The man is very dangerous.

 

[Raoul]

Few MMA lessons? I've fought boxing, MT and MMA over the past 8 years.

You haven't provided any evidence and you've been refuted at every point. You've offered nothing other than some pictures like a child. Conor Derangement? I don't even like the bloke. Give me Charles everyday of the week.

Results do not prove he's not world class in striking, there is absolutely nothing in it that does. It proves he's been beaten in MMA. You keep ignoring anything any counter because well . . You've posted lots so you've got 'cred'. Perhaps do some fighting instead of posting. As if you know anything about fighting. Calling losing to Poirier humiliating, childish.

So now you claim you don't even like him, nor have you proven he's a "world class striker". So what's the debate again ?

 

[Raoul]

I get that McGregor is as unlikable as it gets for many but no need to discredit him as a fighter. The guys resume speaks for itself. Yes he hasn't fought much recently but just go look at the first round against Dustin(2nd fight) again. The man is very dangerous.

I would agree with the last bit. Anything can happen if Conor connects with his left. The trouble with his approach (imo) is that once an opponent neutralizes his striking (by taking him down, or standup grappling against the fence), he doesn't really have any other weapons in his kit. I wish he would've developed his game a bit more broadly over the past few years so that he could deal with a wider array of fighters.

 

[Desert Eagle]

I would agree with the last bit. Anything can happen if Conor connects with his left. The trouble with his approach (imo) is that once an opponent neutralizes his striking (by taking him down, or standup grappling against the fence), he doesn't really have any other weapons in his kit. I wish he would've developed his game a bit more broadly over the past few years so that he could deal with a wider array of fighters.

It's a very high bar you're setting for Conor. His takedown defense is quite underrated imo. Take someone like Wonderboy who also has some holes in his game similar to Conor. He's still a joy to watch and one of the best to do it which I would say about Conor as well. His fights are always entertaining too. I hope he loses and we get Dustin vs Charles and Conor vs Max pt 2.

 

[sizzling sausages]

Yes, its always polemic when it comes to Conor, which isn't helped when random new people show up into a thread and attempt to sound authoritative with zero thread/cred.

What does this mean?

 

[bsCallout]

So now you claim you don't even like him, nor have you proven he's a "world class striker". So what's the debate again ?

It's not a debate about whether I like him. It's a debate about whether one of the most proven strikers in the sport is elite in that respect.

We won't get into you underrating the rest of his skillset.

Stop being obtuse.

 

[ZupZup]

What does this mean?

It means that because he has been posting in this thread a long time, his opinions are worth more… even if they appear to be about as balanced as a chair with two legs.

 

[Raoul]

It means that because he has been posting in this thread a long time, his opinions are worth more… even if they appear to be about as balanced as a chair with two legs.

Has nothing to do with opinions and more to do with contributing to a 17 year old thread over many years, vs simply showing up and not showing any respect. The poster in question has had transgressions that you don't know about, so its best you don't make any assumptions.

Regarding this thread - there's nothing imbalanced about presenting facts about McGregor's recent record. We're not even debating the widely accepted view that he is a terrible person outside the Octagon. These are easily researched facts based on his recent performances against quality opponents.

 

[bsCallout]

Has nothing to do with opinions and more to do with contributing to a 17 year old thread over many years, vs simply showing up and not showing any respect. The poster in question has had transgressions that you don't know about, so its best you don't make any assumptions.

Regarding this thread - there's nothing imbalanced about presenting facts about McGregor's recent record. We're not even debating the widely accepted view that he is a terrible person outside the Octagon. These are easily researched facts based on his recent performances against quality opponents.

Transgressions? What on earth are you on about? Are you referring to my strike on my account for being culturally insensitive once? You're going to try an downplay my point of view because of that.

What an admin you are.

The entitlement because you've been posting in here for a large part of 17 years. Perhaps you should have got some experience fighting in that time.

Your only argument to Conor not being a elite level striker is the fact that he's lost. It's MMA. That's a pretty embarrassing viewpoint.

You seem sensitive to debate, I guess it's understandable with a weak arguement. I've shown everyone in here respect. Don't think you deserve more because you've posted lots.

 

[bsCallout]

Don't worry, @Raoul will just quality check my posts he doesn't like now.

Watch McGregor put on an absolute clinic now.

 

[Raoul]

Don't worry, @Raoul will just quality check my posts he doesn't like now.

Watch McGregor put on an absolute clinic now.

I hope he does show his stuff, as it will be his first win over a quality opponent since the mid 2010s. Plus the UFC can use the PPV money his hype game brings his cards.

 

[ZupZup]

Has nothing to do with opinions and more to do with contributing to a 17 year old thread over many years, vs simply showing up and not showing any respect. The poster in question has had transgressions that you don't know about, so its best you don't make any assumptions.

It’s a thread on an open members forum… I just think trying to “pull rank” because you’ve been posting in the thread a long time is a bit embarrassing.

There’s nothing wrong with open healthy debate and chat… and how long someone has been posting should have nothing to do with how valid their opinions are. If you feel someone isn’t being respectful to you, I would just disengage. Not worth the time.

 

[Raoul]

There’s nothing wrong with open healthy debate and chat… and how long someone has been posting should have nothing to do with how valid their opinions are. If you feel someone isn’t being respectful to you, I would just disengage. Not worth the time.

I don't disagree, but that has nothing to do with the poster in question. There are issues unrelated to this thread at play that you don't know about, so its best to avoid commenting on it and return to discussing MMA.

 

[Ladron de redcafe]

I think the stuff about bringing Poirier's wife into the trash talk is crossing a line; there's a limit to what fighters should do to promote fights, and this shouldn't be considered acceptable.

Having said that, I'm curious what Jules Poirier even sent to McGregor? It seems like an odd thing to do 4 days before the fight, unless Dustin himself is in on it and they're trying to pull something to help hype the fight further. I don't think that's the case, though.

 

[Raoul]

I think the stuff about bringing Poirier's wife into the trash talk is crossing a line; there's a limit to what fighters should do to promote fights, and this shouldn't be considered acceptable.

Having said that, I'm curious what Jules Poirier even sent to McGregor? It seems like an odd thing to do 4 days before the fight, unless Dustin himself is in on it and they're trying to pull something to help hype the fight further. I don't think that's the case, though.

Agreed. She was probably attempting to be friendly be following her husband's opponent on social media. Totally uncalled for by Conor imo.

 

[George Owen]

 

[Ladron de redcafe]

Agreed. She was probably attempting to be friendly be following her husband's opponent on social media. Totally uncalled for by Conor imo.

I would agree with this (and for all I know, you might be right and this might be what she was doing) but the incident with the donation makes me a little leery that this is the case.

I haven't been following the ins and outs of the buildup. If the issue was resolved and the donation was paid, then the previous resentment might not be there and you're probably right.

Big fight this weekend, either way. Whatever happens here will shape how the division looks for the foreseeable future.