Nothing, but to suggest this is not about Ole is cult stuff.
The manager has lost the players
- Thread starter golden_blunder
- Start date
- Status
And obviously if it's not 100% the players fault, then it's got to be 100% the manager?
I wonder if there was similar talks among Chelsea fans prior to Lampard getting sacked.
If you've somehow managed to entirely ignore two years of debate about his effect on Juventus, or is unable to see that having a forward who presses much less than any other forward in the PL presents the team with a problem, then you probably shouldn't be talking about rose tinted glasses.
Oh be quiet. I'm not strawmaning anything.
I originally replied to a comment stating that the players were just walking around and not putting in any effort.
My comment states that players not putting in their best effort is for any reason unacceptable.
That's it. That is the entirety of my comment. And Ive for some reason had at least 15 different posters making any type of defense or the players that its not their fault. Bullshit its not their fault. It absolutely blows my mind that this is not something the Caf can universally agree on: That anyone on that pitch are responsible for leaving the pitch with nothing left to give. Are you kidding me?
No one is stopping Ronaldo from pulling a Cavani and pressing signifiantly more. No one is stopping Maguire from doing a terrible schoolboy error and losing the ball completely unhindered to allow the 1-1 goal. Its pure bullshit on the players part.
He's lost them! Where was he when he last had them, has he checked his other jacket?
I hope he finds them soon, they're expensive to replace.
I hope he finds them soon, they're expensive to replace.
I do think the players have stopped buying into his ideas, tactics etc but I think we'll rally the next few weeks vs Liverpool, City etc as players pride will kick in, no way they'll want to lose these games as they know what they mean to the fans, so they'll start playing outside of the managers instructions.
I think it is a bit of both, but some will not have any criticism against Ole. He puts the players on the pitch, he chooses the tactics. He moans if they do not have the stamina, well your coaches are responsible for making sure that is not the case. He should send them out fired up for all games. Games like next weekend should be self motivating, but he has to make sure there are no signs of the players thinking it should be easy peasy in other games. If you put out a load of players out who are known not to track back or tackle or press, do not be surprised when they don't track, back, tackle or press. He put Harry out there and then left him out there. That is all on him. They look lost, some look unfit and they look to have lost motivation. There is something seriously wrong. So some think the answer is lets sell them all and buy another lot. The easiest answer would be to get a competent manager and coaches who can weed out the slackers or at least make sure they don't slack off, have an actual system of play and drill it into them.
Well said.
You've brought this up literally the other day about players not being criticised. You are clearly affected by Ole being rightfully critisised, so maybe just log off for a-bit. The buck always has, and always will, stop at the manager. You may not like it because Ole is in charge, but such is life. The players deserve criticism too, and are certainly getting it.
You can mention all these small incidents all you like, but it's clear as day, our issues are from poor, disorganised football. That's on Ole and the coaching staff.
Tbh no amount of training can legislate for Maguire's brainfarts there.
You could argue he shouldn't have been on the pitch, which is fair, but he's a professional footballer with 100s of games worth of experience making mistakes that 8 yr olds would be ashamed of.
So do I.
I want him gone today but i don't think that he lost players (except those who don't play like Tony or VDB).
Lots of them like easy ride, some know (McFred, AWB, Lingard) that their place is in danger if new manager comes, Rashford and Mason love him because he allows them to play free, Maguire got armband...
Only who are maybe unhappy are Ronny, Dave, Bruno and Pogba. They know that they will not win anything here under Ole. And they strike me as a players who want to win stuff above all
Lots of them like easy ride, some know (McFred, AWB, Lingard) that their place is in danger if new manager comes, Rashford and Mason love him because he allows them to play free, Maguire got armband...
Only who are maybe unhappy are Ronny, Dave, Bruno and Pogba. They know that they will not win anything here under Ole. And they strike me as a players who want to win stuff above all
The first sign of incoming bad news was the MUFC video where Ole meets Ronaldo and Ronaldo didn't even look bothered.
Nowadays it seems a few more players look seriously not bothered, it just seems something is off.
Nowadays it seems a few more players look seriously not bothered, it just seems something is off.
I did question over the Summer, what Solskjaer must have been saying to players such as Cavani, Lingard, Bailly, Donny etc to keep them at the club.
These players are surely being promised regular first team football, and they are not getting it.
In the case of Bailly, he had said if he wasn't playing he'd look for pastures new, but then suddenly signed a new contract.
So what had Solskjaer promised Bailly to make him do a U turn?
Then United went and signed Varane, so Bailly is even further down the pecking order than he was before he signed a new deal..
At the weekend, both Varane & Maguire are unfit, yet Bailly still doesn't get a game, an unfit Maguire is selected ahead of him.
There is no doubt in my mind that these players are going to be feeling very resentful towards Solskjaer, and that discontent will spread through the dressing room, causing players to question the manager when results are poor.
These players are surely being promised regular first team football, and they are not getting it.
In the case of Bailly, he had said if he wasn't playing he'd look for pastures new, but then suddenly signed a new contract.
So what had Solskjaer promised Bailly to make him do a U turn?
Then United went and signed Varane, so Bailly is even further down the pecking order than he was before he signed a new deal..
At the weekend, both Varane & Maguire are unfit, yet Bailly still doesn't get a game, an unfit Maguire is selected ahead of him.
There is no doubt in my mind that these players are going to be feeling very resentful towards Solskjaer, and that discontent will spread through the dressing room, causing players to question the manager when results are poor.
Spot on. It baffles me how these players get paid millions to play for us but people talk like their every movement is being controlled with a PlayStation pad by the guy in the dugout.
It can be both (the manager and the players) but posters can't seem to compute that everything isn't 100% down to one thing (the manager) once they've made their minds up.
They used to give their all, so what has changed.
Well he shouldn't have been on the pitch. Thing is, I didn't even see the game, just the highlights. So my initial response was nothing to do with the Leicester game. That poster constantly mentions how the players aren't being critisised, which is a fallacy. And while Maguire was appalling on Saturday, the criticisms about our coaching, cohesion, style of play etc. is a discussion about a 3 year tenure, not one game.
Sure, players make mistakes, but overall, it's pretty clear we have far worse problems. Chelsea could have blamed the players last season; but they binned off Lampard and won the CL/are sitting top of the league, with that same group of players. It's abundantly clear that Ole should be getting far more out of this squad.
All indications so far is solidly in the direction of Bruno and Pogba having an excellent relationship with OGS. But at this stage, it can hardly be a question of players being pro or contra Ole. The team is losing, and is plainly not functioning. I don't think there's a player in that dressing room who's comfortable with that. The resulting finger points at both the coaches and the players, they know that. They also know that this is not something that either the players or the coaches can solve on their own.
Fair enough.
What's their excuse for not?
My initial retort was solely to shut down the 'players don't get criticised' angle, which that poster has tried before.
That would be interesting. Doubt it would be wise for them to say.
One of my oldest mates was a rare talent. In my opinion he was as good as Bojinov the guy who played for City and Juventus and who also spent a short spell in Malta. His dribbling and speed made him unplayable at times and yet he had one key weakness ie he was greedy with the ball. If he dribbles past 2 players then he'll try and do it again. I used to tell him not to do it and when I played against him, I used to instruct the defense that whenever he gets the ball they should just focus on him. Turned out that this weakness was what fecked his career as he fecked his knee during a trial in the UK (I think it was with Liverpool) after humiliating a defender far too much for that player's taste. He lost his pace thanks to that and with it his career.
To cut a long story short, players will always play the way they feel comfortable at unless properly drilled. Which is why SAF used to say that the manager's job is the most important job in football and also why he made sure to have the best available coaches around him. Ole had implemented a 'go out and have fun' mentality which had taken us this far. Now everyone knows how we play and is countering it. Ole hasn't lost the dressing room. Its only that his laissez faire system is simply not working anymore.
So his coaching abilities and coaches abilities are now being shown as inadequate. Have always said this side has not got a pattern of play and most have said other sides, who might not have as good a players, show they are well drilled. We as you say have been found out. He now has to show they know what to do to come up with something different. He has now brought Varane, Cavani, Ronaldo and Sancho who know what a good coach is. He cannot bluff his way through the season any longer.
For all those who still thinks Ole out is stupid and that he can change things around here, you need to be sent on a world tour because you deserve it. Well, not me. I need to see my favorite team play attractive football and with more possession. We have some of the best attacking players in the world and yet, we play some of the lousiest football in the world. Ole has done everything in his power for the Good of our club and we will always love him for that but his inexperience is showing and he cannot get the players motivated to do what he wants them to do. More often than not, his formations and choice of players isn't that great either. His substitutions are late or don't make enough impact. He keeps saying " The United way " which frankly is all about attacking but he doesn't get his players to do that at all. We need just 1 brilliant midfielder who has a decent defensive side which can change the way we play completely and nobody has done anything to go and get one. It is probably Ole's fault for not pushing to get a midfielder in the summer. The board will be on his side but the results will not change and he will soon be sacked.
Ole wants to be SAF. Or wants to occupy the role, anyway. Based on his own half-baked idea (something like an obsessed fan idea) of what SAF was. He has to treat Phelan like he thinks SAF would have. Etc etc etc
Sure. Because we play free flowing football prior to ronaldo
Now his "system" is not working anymore and the players know this. This is the point were a manager has to realize that issue and change the right things to make the team work again. When you don't do that as a manager you do lose the dressing room as they don't trust anymore in your ability to develop the team, and I think this is what is happening right now.
Yes, because the manager is ultimately responsible for picking the team. If a player isn't pulling his weight, you drop him. If your first XI isn't pulling it's weight, then it's on the manager.
Ole's team is like you or me picking a fantasy football team, shoving as many players in for the amount of money we can spend, then just hoping they get you points. I'll have six forwards, not sure that will work mate.
Not just inadequate but largely inexistent. The impression is that players are being told to just go out and pretty much enjoy themselves. That means that there's little effort to polish our game to become more effective. Which means that any flaws we have will remain there for the next game and the game after thus making us look vulnerable and predictable.
I am dreading the coming games.
Well I am sure that the likes of Varane, Ronaldo, Bruno, Pogba and co aren't happy with this 'on the job training' and 'we're slowly developing a side to success' BS. These players are at the wrong end of their 20s, they have performance bonuses tied to Manchester United's success and are probably addicted to it as well. However I don't think that Ole is losing the dressing room. What I think is happening is that key flaws in our games aren't being tackled. Which means that they can be exploited again and again.
Finito.
It’s probably been said a lot, but with our run of fixtures it’s likely that by Christmas there’ll be someone new in charge unless something drastically changes.
Right. That's an actual 100%. No two bits about it. Clear as glass. No question. None of this namby-pamby thinking-about-more-than-one-thing.
Then why is Ole playing them in the starting XI? A great manager gets a little extra out of everybody. An alright manager sends them out to play the game. Ole is an alright manager.
SAF had them running through brick walls for him. If the players are slacking off it is because they do not respect the manager or fear him. They might like him, but you need respect and a bit of fear as well.
- Status