Television The Lord of the Rings: The Rings of Power

CassiusClaymore said:
Yeah I get that it was a sweet goofy conclusion to Nori guiding him through his whole character awakening but it just sounded so bad. Like fingers down a chalkboard bad.
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That's fair. The swimming line was a bit like that for me (for everyone else as well apparently). There is definitely a few off lines floating about in there and some of the stage direction in individual shots is noticeably clumsy. At times it fluctuates between the high end, carefully crafted and something more am-dram. How forgiving you are of that contrast might reflect how much you get out of the show, and perhaps partly explains how divisive it's been.

As someone who really liked it consistently, I am aware there are some reasonable criticisms out there and can understand why others would be less lenient towards the show based on some of these. I even have a little sympathy for the Tolkienistas who think the thing they love is being soiled. I'm a casual, I don't have any investment in the material and I can live with a few scuffs on my kicks. I just need for it to be doing something, to be going somewhere, to be designed and constructed with care and consideration. For me it does all that.

I don't want to wait for season 2, damn it.
 
what i don’t get is howcomes the “i am good” salmon guy didn’t just use the eagles to protect girl frodo?
 
balaks said:
You are obviously much cleverer than me because I didn't think he was Sauron till it was revealed. I loved the show, perhaps it's just not for you.
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Its not a question of being clever, unfortunately. Its simply a matter of observation of story telling trends. If you enjoyed it, dont let me get in your way. Im not the enjoyment police. Simply expressing an opinion. And that opinion is that its more rubbish from the bad robot way of engaging the audience. Keep the audience engaged with mystery boxes. Opening them one at time to keep everyone talking. It was fine with lost, but to still be doing it all these years later says they have nothing else to offer in the story telling department. And since we are talking about 60 million an episode, it would be nice to see that reflected not only in the sets and cgi, but also in the writing. As for "Its not for you". Why would it not be for me, a fan of lord of the rings? And if its not for me, then who is it for?
 
Norman Brownbutter said:
Its not a question of being clever, unfortunately. Its simply a matter of observation of story telling trends. If you enjoyed it, dont let me get in your way. Im not the enjoyment police. Simply expressing an opinion. And that opinion is that its more rubbish from the bad robot way of engaging the audience. Keep the audience engaged with mystery boxes. Opening them one at time to keep everyone talking. It was fine with lost, but to still be doing it all these years later says they have nothing else to offer in the story telling department. And since we are talking about 60 million an episode, it would be nice to see that reflected not only in the sets and cgi, but also in the writing. As for "Its not for you". Why would it not be for me, a fan of lord of the rings? And if its not for me, then who is it for?
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It's for me.
 
I enjoyed it, it's one of those shows I could sit back and get immersed in without thinking too much.

I pretty much guessed who Sauron was when

Halbrand broke the arm of the man in Numenor. It was way more personal and vicious than any of the other fights and they made a point of showing his raw anger
 
I'm not sure fans of Tolkien will like the mystery of Ringwraiths and Witch King being unravelled and all. I don't see the point of watching something that may as well be classed as blasphemy by Tolkienites. Then again we're all different I guess but wasting much time on something that's causing so much hate is utterly bizarre.
 
You know I'm no good is a great song by Amy W.

I hope Halbrand does the whole 'what's my name?' thing next series.
 
Balljy said:
I enjoyed it, it's one of those shows I could sit back and get immersed in without thinking too much.

I pretty much guessed who Sauron was when

Halbrand broke the arm of the man in Numenor. It was way more personal and vicious than any of the other fights and they made a point of showing his raw anger
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Same here.
 
Norman Brownbutter said:
Its not a question of being clever, unfortunately. Its simply a matter of observation of story telling trends. If you enjoyed it, dont let me get in your way. Im not the enjoyment police. Simply expressing an opinion. And that opinion is that its more rubbish from the bad robot way of engaging the audience. Keep the audience engaged with mystery boxes. Opening them one at time to keep everyone talking. It was fine with lost, but to still be doing it all these years later says they have nothing else to offer in the story telling department. And since we are talking about 60 million an episode, it would be nice to see that reflected not only in the sets and cgi, but also in the writing. As for "Its not for you". Why would it not be for me, a fan of lord of the rings? And if its not for me, then who is it for?
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I'm a fan of LotR, read the Silmarillion, Unfinished Tales, etc. and I enjoy it. I also don't get the criticism of "mystery boxes". First, suspension and plot twists are not a modern phenomenon but as old as story telling and second, I don't even think that this is the case with the show. What you call mystery boxes isn't even remotely as present as you claim it is. There was Gandalf and there was Sauron, that's it. Book readers know fully well where the story is heading and which characters will die at which point. And there has even been much foreshadowing of future events such as

(spoilers for those who don't know what's going to happen)
the downfall of Numenor and the dwarves' greed awakening Durin's bane
 
One point I still don’t understand is why Galadriel was mad at Elrond.

(Elrond to Galadriel, last seen on a voyage across the ocean to elf heaven-land): “How is it you are here?”
(Galadriel to Elrond, who is in elf-land like a normal elf person): “How is it you are here?!” And then he just nods yieldingly.

:confused:
 
That'sHernandez said:
I mean the majority of it is liberties being taken. The experience someone has watching this will never been the same as the experience they had reading the books for the first time, so just accept it and enjoy it for what it is and cherish the memory of reading the books instead of comparing the two in a way that means you will never enjoy what has been produced.
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There are no books. Its just 95% fan fiction loosely based on the appendix of ROTK.
 
Just curious what these mystery boxes were?

The man from the comet was a mystery to the audience but for the reason that he was experienced so by the characters, including the comet man himself. Surely you don't want his named narrated to the audience out of earshot of the characters? His storyline is one of learning and self discovery.

Who is Sauron was a mystery that I wasn't even aware was a mystery but for this thread, and apparently (as someone explained to me a few pages back) that is a mystery inherent in the Tolkien lore. Galadriel's search for Sauron is where the story begins

That's 2 but really only one because the which witch is which witch combines them both into a double "mystery box".

There is some stuff that is revealed but these are only of a general storytelling nature.

What are some others? And what is the evil robot?

The ring from The Hobbit book must be a mystery box and that would make Gollum one too. Are mystery boxes perhaps a Tolkien trademark, I wonder.

Did Tolkien invent Deal or No Deal?
 
Organic Potatoes said:
One point I still don’t understand is why Galadriel was mad at Elrond.

(Elrond to Galadriel, last seen on a voyage across the ocean to elf heaven-land): “How is it you are here?”
(Galadriel to Elrond, who is in elf-land like a normal elf person): “How is it you are here?!” And then he just nods yieldingly.

:confused:
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You can't ask questions like these without going mad. The answer is, they couldn't be arsed with more dialogue.
 
Gehrman said:
Tolkien said that Sauron with the one ring was more powerful than Morgoth was at the end of the 1st age.
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If Tolkien had one consistent theme it was entropy. Everything decayed or else went to the undying lands. Countering that was the purpose of the Rings of Power.
 
glazed said:
If Tolkien had one consistent theme it was entropy. Everything decayed or else went to the undying lands. Countering that was the purpose of the Rings of Power.
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Probably, but the reason for Melkor/Morgoth going from the mightiest being in Arda to being a shadow of his former self at the end of the war of the wrath/end of 1st age was because Morgoth poured his essence/life force into twisting beings into his own creation and even infused Arda with his essence so there would always be evil. All of this took a major toll on his own individual power. Eonwë when he confonted him after the victory of the war of wrath noticed that he was no longer influenced by Melkors gaze in contrast to before.
 
I enjoyed the series overall - but still feel underwhelmed. The last 2 episodes did better - but it just still feels so small scale.

The last episode was my favourite so far - it finally moved on somewhat, although I found it just ridiculous that Celebrimbor needed to be told don't forget about mixing metals... this guy is a master smith ffs.

The writing was a massive let down for me - and sense of scale etc. I'd still give it a strong rating purely because it's LOTR - but just wish it had been more.

Looking forward to the next season.
 
Gehrman said:
Probably, but the reason for Melkor/Morgoth going from the mightiest being in Arda to being a shadow of his former self at the end of the war of the wrath/end of 1st age was because Morgoth poured his essence/life force into twisting beings into his own creation and even infused Arda with his essence so there would always be evil. All of this took a major toll on his own individual power. Eonwë when he confonted him after the victory of the war of wrath noticed that he was no longer influenced by Melkors gaze in contrast to before.
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Well yes that's entropy - power spreading away from its source. You saw it with the decay of all the Maiar as well as the Elves. Only Gandalf got a power up, and he had both a ring and the favour of God. The Rings of Power prevented the entropy by tapping into some unseen realm of power. I always imagined them as a kind of tunnel, hence the ring shape. But there was only one route to that realm and the biggest ring therefore controlled it and kept the tunnel open.

I may have thought about this too much. So I couldn't help but be disappointed by the superficial way the forging of the rings was presented in the TV show. Like Gerald Ratner in his workshop.
 
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glazed said:
Well yes that's entropy - power spreading away from its source. You saw it with the decay of all the Maiar as well as the Elves. Only Gandalf got a power up, and he had both a ring and the favour of God. The Rings of Power prevented the entropy by tapping into some unseen realm. I always imagined them as a kind of tunnel, hence the ring shape. But there was only one route to that realm and the biggest ring therefore controlled it and kept the tunnel open.

I may have thought about this too much. So i couldn't help but be disappointed by the superficial way the forging of the rings was presented in TV show. Like Gerald Ratner in his workshop.
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I honestly don't think i've read anything about the decay of the Maiar. I reckon all the maiar and Valar in Valinor are just about as powerful as they always was. And I don't remember any of the maiar in middle earth getting weaker apart from Saruman having his powers stripped and Sauron, well, getting killed. Sauron at least managed to get a power up for a while thorugh the one ring. Can't remember what happened to Melian.
 
Coxy said:
I enjoyed the series overall - but still feel underwhelmed. The last 2 episodes did better - but it just still feels so small scale.

The last episode was my favourite so far - it finally moved on somewhat, although I found it just ridiculous that Celebrimbor needed to be told don't forget about mixing metals... this guy is a master smith ffs.

The writing was a massive let down for me - and sense of scale etc. I'd still give it a strong rating purely because it's LOTR - but just wish it had been more.

Looking forward to the next season.
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This but actually made me chuckle, I mean surely they could have spent 5mins to think of way disguised Sauron could influence the situation to take the smithing to new levels rather than simply make Celebrimbor an idiot.

It’d be like the Numenoreans rowing a boat to middle earth and Sauron suggesting they put a sail up.
 
tomaldinho1 said:
This but actually made me chuckle, I mean surely they could have spent 5mins to think of way disguised Sauron could influence the situation to take the smithing to new levels rather than simply make Celebrimbor an idiot.

It’d be like the Numenoreans rowing a boat to middle earth and Sauron suggesting they put a sail up.
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Yeah Celebrimbor, the greatest elven smith 2nd only to Fëanor needs this nugget of wisdom from Sauron. Actually they've kind of ruined the whole rings of power origin story for me now. When Sauron makes the one ring I look forward to seeing how they will feck that one up.
 
Gehrman said:
I honestly don't think i've read anything about the decay of the Maiar. I reckon all the maiar and Valar in Valinor are just about as powerful as they always was. And I don't remember any of the maiar in middle earth getting weaker apart from Saruman having his powers stripped and Sauron, well, getting killed. Sauron at least managed to get a power up for a while thorugh the one ring. Can't remember what happened to Melian.
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Yes it was the Maiar in Middle Earth who decayed. The Balrog had to hide in the roots of the earth but we don't know why. The Istari were forced to appear as old men who got progressively even older - and we may thefore assume weaker and more likely to lose their way? Evil Saruman was less powerful than Saruman the White, which is how Gandalf was able to bring him low in the first place. Sauron lost all his power and would have been dead but for the One Ring. We don't know much about Radagast other than he lost his way and became distracted by nature, not fighting Sauron as he was sent to do. Ditto the Blue Wizards. Only Gandalf kept the mission, and he had a Ring of Power to keep him honest.

But what we mainly know is that aside from Lothlorien and Rivendell, where the elven rings were, the Elves had dwindled to rustic irrelevance.
 
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glazed said:
Yes it was the Maiar in Middle Earth who decayed. The Balrog had to hide in the roots of the earth but we don't know why. The Istari were forced to appear as old men who got progressively even older - and we may thefore assume weaker and more likely to lose their way? Evil Saruman was less powerful than Saruman the White, which is how Gandalf was able to bring him low in the first place. Sauron lost all his power and would have been dead but for the One Ring. We don't know much about Radagast other than he lost his way and became distracted by nature, not fighting Sauron as he was sent to do. Ditto the Blue Wizards. Only Gandalf kept the mission, and he had a Ring of Power to keep him honest.

But what we mainly know is that aside from Lothlorien and Rivendell, where the elven rings were, the Elves had dwindled to rustic irrelevance.
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Because most were destroyed in the war of the wrath and the few who survived most likely hid out of fear in places they expected not to be found by the host of the Valar.

Not really sure evil Saruman was less powerful, Gandalf just got the personal stamp from god himself to the main player of the istar. I kind of get what you're saying, but all the istar got their forms, because they were mainly meant to counsel men and elves rather than do direct battle with Sauron. But yeah in general if you mean the wizards probably. I'm not sure it's in the lore that they became less powerful with time. Since they had bodies they had that could be the case. I guess we can seperate Middle earth and Valinor. In middle earth beings are subject to decay and Valinor they are not.

As regards to Sauron. He was killed twice and it was because he poured so much of his own essence and power into the one ring that once it was destroyed, he couldn't reincarnate into another form or body. If he had never created the one ring and been killed, he could probably come back sooner or later. Actually do believe reading that some of Tolkiens unfinished works was working on a story about Sauron coming back or perhaps it was return of evil due to Melkors infusion of his evil into Arda.
 
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I initially decided to stop watching after episode 4, but i found myself with alot of free time one day so i caught up and then watched the final two episodes as they came out. I just cannot believe they spent £60million per episode and this is what they came up with. The CGI is out of this world, and the over all plot and storyline was good, but to completely ruin it with some questionable casting decisions and some horrendous script writing is unforgivable.

The whole reveal of Halbrand was woefully done, from the cheesey montage of him and celebrimbor brainstorming with Galadriel slowly figuring everything out like she's Joey from Friends, the way she's so easily subdued as she finally realises the man she's been searching for for hundreds of years is standing infront of her. She deserved it for taking a complete shot in the dark that this stranger she met just happens to be the long lost king of the southlands.

The cheesey harfoots and lazy script writing did my head in, with the constant "what in rabbit ears have you got up to this time"... boring bollocks. The cringey songs they made them sing. There were a few moments this season they'd find paw prints and foot prints in the mud, led to absolutely nothing apart from one small cornering from the wolves.

The dwellers going "OH SHEEET ITS NOT SAURON IT'S THE OTHER ONE!!" :lol: :lol: I mean you didn't for one second think that before you started calling him Sauron.

Isildur, I'm assuming he's still alive ffs because it seems like they just completely left that open after giving such strong hints to him all season. He was so drab and uncharismatic, as is his sister, that i was almost willing him to die.
 
Gehrman said:
I'm not sure it's in the lore that they became less powerful with time. Since they had bodies they had that could be the case. I guess we can seperate Middle earth and Valinor. In middle earth beings are subject to decay and Valinor they are not.
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“They first appeared in Middle-earth about the year 1000 of the Third Age, but for long they went about in simple guise, as it were of Men already old in years but hale in body, travellers and wanderers, gaining knowledge of Middle-earth and all that dwelt therein, but revealing to none their powers and purpose… Men perceived that they did not die, but remained the same (unless it were that they aged somewhat in looks), while the fathers and sons of Men passed away.” (Unfinished Tales)
 
Gehrman said:
Yeah Celebrimbor, the greatest elven smith 2nd only to Fëanor needs this nugget of wisdom from Sauron. Actually they've kind of ruined the whole rings of power origin story for me now. When Sauron makes the one ring I look forward to seeing how they will feck that one up.
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Genuinely expecting them to film Celebrimbor opening his door and there’s an Amazon box in on his step with a pre made One ring mould in it. Then they put ‘Prime’ in the top corner like they did with ‘Mordor’.
 
Gehrman said:
Yeah Celebrimbor, the greatest elven smith 2nd only to Fëanor needs this nugget of wisdom from Sauron. Actually they've kind of ruined the whole rings of power origin story for me now. When Sauron makes the one ring I look forward to seeing how they will feck that one up.
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Isn't Sauron also a master smith, though? They worked together to create the rings, so I don't see how it is ridiculous to get ideas from Sauron.

Also, you are talking about magic with the rings. He counsels them in the book about this, so not seeing the problem.
 
I just dont think theres a story. I think its a series of events with some tv tropes thrown in the mix.
I think they're setting up a storyline with shades of grey that they dont have the skill to pull off and reframe a world that was made up of black and white, good and evil. Think its going to be a total clusterfeck the further in they go.
 
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iammemphis said:
I initially decided to stop watching after episode 4, but i found myself with alot of free time one day so i caught up and then watched the final two episodes as they came out. I just cannot believe they spent £60million per episode and this is what they came up with. The CGI is out of this world, and the over all plot and storyline was good, but to completely ruin it with some questionable casting decisions and some horrendous script writing is unforgivable.

The whole reveal of Halbrand was woefully done, from the cheesey montage of him and celebrimbor brainstorming with Galadriel slowly figuring everything out like she's Joey from Friends, the way she's so easily subdued as she finally realises the man she's been searching for for hundreds of years is standing infront of her. She deserved it for taking a complete shot in the dark that this stranger she met just happens to be the long lost king of the southlands.

The cheesey harfoots and lazy script writing did my head in, with the constant "what in rabbit ears have you got up to this time"... boring bollocks. The cringey songs they made them sing. There were a few moments this season they'd find paw prints and foot prints in the mud, led to absolutely nothing apart from one small cornering from the wolves.

The dwellers going "OH SHEEET ITS NOT SAURON IT'S THE OTHER ONE!!" :lol: :lol: I mean you didn't for one second think that before you started calling him Sauron.

Isildur, I'm assuming he's still alive ffs because it seems like they just completely left that open after giving such strong hints to him all season. He was so drab and uncharismatic, as is his sister, that i was almost willing him to die.
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They were hoping for a 'Toss a Coin' hit like The Witcher had but none of them were good enough.
 
Lecland07 said:
Isn't Sauron also a master smith, though? They worked together to create the rings, so I don't see how it is ridiculous to get ideas from Sauron.

Also, you are talking about magic with the rings. He counsels them in the book about this, so not seeing the problem.
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It's about Sauron giving celebrimbor smithing tips for beginners.
 
Didn't get the online bashing this got. I genuinely loved it. Yeah its not a scratch on the greatest trilogy of all time, but that's setting the bar to godly levels. Loved the Sauron reveal.
 
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