The Guardian - Manchester United to sack Erik ten Hag after the FA Cup Final

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Macern said:
I still hope he stays. Thinking he’s the problem and that it’ll change with Pochettino or whoever is naive. Look at the past 10 years.

The sacking culture of managers in the PL is horrible. The common denominator with successfull teams tend to be consistency. The amount of injures we’ve had this season, I doubt say Pochettino or Tuchel would’ve done much better. Looking at the last season that we didn’t have record breaking amounts of injuries, there actually was a lot of progress. He deserves another half a season, at least.
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No not really. The common denominator with successful teams is having a top manager.
Man City had three managers in the six years prior to Pep. They sacked two who literally won them league titles.
Arsenal sacked Emery. Aston Villa before Emery went through Gerrard and Smith. Houllier and Rodgers did about four years between them before Klopp.

Erik Ten Hag is not a top manager by any stretch of the imagination. Just like Ole wasn’t and just like Mourinho no longer was when he was here. And that is why we haven’t been able to win top honours.
 
Why are people surprised or disappointed by the news? Should be ecstatic that he'll be gone soon. What's disgraceful is the management job by ETH and the shower of shite we've been forced to watch week in and week out. Did anyone really think he'd be keeping his job or we'd somehow beat City in the final if the news hadn't leaked?
 
Bondi77 said:
For that story to have any credence we would have our next manager in mind and given assurances the individual would be on board.
This article is still talking about Southgate FFS!
The Guardian have rolled the dice to get in first to grab the headlines and while I think it will happen this rag knows no more than any other out there.
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The Guardian, a rag‽ have a word.
 
Man of Leisure said:
Why are people surprised or disappointed by the news? Should be ecstatic that he'll be gone soon. What's disgraceful is the management job by ETH and the shower of shite we've been forced to watch week in and week out. Did anyone really think he'd be keeping his job or we'd somehow beat City in the final if the news hadn't leaked?
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Apparently there's a lot and there's still some that have their head buried in the sand and refuse to believe all the reports coming out from top tier journalists.
 
Big Ben Foster said:
Why are so many people pissed at the club when it's pretty obvious the leaks came from elsewhere?
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This is what I’m also trying to wrap my head around. It’s obviously a shame that it leaked but how can that mean the club as a whole is ‘a disgrace’ for it accidentally leaking out somehow? It doesn’t make any sense.

United are the biggest show in town and there’s always going to be more journos digging around for info.
 
Christian Falk saying Bayern believe Tuchel has already agreed to take over at United. I hope that's well off the mark, is he reliable?
 
Macern said:
I still hope he stays. Thinking he’s the problem and that it’ll change with Pochettino or whoever is naive. Look at the past 10 years.

The sacking culture of managers in the PL is horrible. The common denominator with successfull teams tend to be consistency. The amount of injures we’ve had this season, I doubt say Pochettino or Tuchel would’ve done much better. Looking at the last season that we didn’t have record breaking amounts of injuries, there actually was a lot of progress. He deserves another half a season, at least.
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Most successful team on the planet?
Real Madrid.
In 41 years, the 37 full-time managers have lasted an average of one year and four months, that's 70 games.


Vicente del Bosque – November 1999 to June 2003 (contract not renewed) – 233 games, 55 per cent won – Honours: 2 La LIga, 2 Champions League, 1 UEFA Super Cup, 1 Spanish Super Cup, 1 Intercontinental Cup

Carlos Queiroz – June 2003 to May 2004 (sacked) – 59 games, 58 per cent won – Honours: 1 Spanish Super Cup

Jose Antonio Camacho – May 2004 to September 2004 (resigned) – 6 games, 67 per cent won – Honours: None.

Mariano Garcia Remon – September 2004 to December 2004 (demoted to coach) – 20 games, 60 per cent won – Honours: None.

Vanderlei Luxemburgo – December 2004 to December 2005 (sacked) – 45 games, 62 per cent won – Honours: None.

Juan Ramon Lopez Caro (caretaker) – December 2005 to June 2006 – 24 games, 50 per cent won – Honours: None.

Fabio Capello – July 2006 to June 2007 (sacked) – 50 games, 56 per cent won – Honours: 1 La Liga

Bernd Schuster – July 2007 to December 2008 (mutual agreement) – 75 games, 59 per cent won – Honours 1 La Liga, 1 Spanish Super Cup

Juande Ramos – December 2008 to June 2009 (end of contract) – 27 games, 67 per cent won – Honours: None.

Manuel Pellegrini – June 2009 to May 2010 (sacked) – 48 games, 75 per cent won – Honours: None.

Jose Mourinho – May 2010 to June 2013 (mutual agreement) – 178 games, 72 per cent won – Honours; 1 La Liga, 1 Copa del Rey, 1 Spanish Super Cup

Carlo Ancelotti – June 2013 to May 2015 (sacked) – 119 games, 75 per cent won – Honours: 1 Copa del Rey, 1 Champions League, 1 Club World Cup, 1 Copa del Rey.

Rafael Benítez 3 June 2015 to 4 January 2016 (sacked)

Zinedine Zidane 4 January 2016 to 31 May 2018 1 La Liga 1 Supercopa de España 3 UEFA Champions League 2 UEFA Super Cup 2 FIFA Club World Cup

Julen Lopetegui 12 June 2018 to 29 October 2018 (sacked)

Santiago Solari 30 October 2018 to 11 March 2019 1 fifa world cup (sacked)

Zinedine Zidane 11 March 2019 to 27 May 2021 1 La Liga 1 Supercopa de España

That's what a successful club with standards does.
 
Take footballing podcast gossip for what it is, but Steve Howson is claiming INEOS has been reviewing the club in its entirety behind closed doors with a small group of folks. The review had reached the point that they now wanted to inform the MUFC organisation (this week) as to what they are planning/found through review.

So the implication of that being, INEOS have decided to sack ETH post-FA cup, some fecking loser in the club has decided to chat to the press and now The Guardian are going heavy with definitive reporting.


So he's gone. No doubt now. But there is a poison in that club that is almost willing us to flap things up for the sake of drama.
 
I probably would have given ETH a clean slate until Xmas and seen how McKenna got on but now that McKenna is about to be picked up by a big club I think it’s the right call. Letting it get out before the final is poor form. Hiring Tuchel would be horrible: I really hope this isn’t true
 
I have nothing against the guy personally. He seems like a decent man and I hope he still goes on to have a good career. But I don't think he was good enough for the job, and notwithstanding the many issues he had to deal with, he made a litany of mistakes on and off the field which ultimately made his position untenable.

The timing of all of this is extremely shabby though.
 
Bastian said:
Christian Falk saying Bayern believe Tuchel has already agreed to take over at United. I hope that's well off the mark, is he reliable?
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Meh I would go with James Ducker's report on Tuchel over Falk any day. Maybe that is the belief in Munich though but it doesn't mean it's reality.
 
What an unbelievably stupid thing to leak to the press the day before a cup final.

Whoever made that decision needs sacking more than ETH does
 
UnofficialDevil said:
Most successful team on the planet?
Real Madrid.
In 41 years, the 37 full-time managers have lasted an average of one year and four months, that's 70 games.


Vicente del Bosque – November 1999 to June 2003 (contract not renewed) – 233 games, 55 per cent won – Honours: 2 La LIga, 2 Champions League, 1 UEFA Super Cup, 1 Spanish Super Cup, 1 Intercontinental Cup

Carlos Queiroz – June 2003 to May 2004 (sacked) – 59 games, 58 per cent won – Honours: 1 Spanish Super Cup

Jose Antonio Camacho – May 2004 to September 2004 (resigned) – 6 games, 67 per cent won – Honours: None.

Mariano Garcia Remon – September 2004 to December 2004 (demoted to coach) – 20 games, 60 per cent won – Honours: None.

Vanderlei Luxemburgo – December 2004 to December 2005 (sacked) – 45 games, 62 per cent won – Honours: None.

Juan Ramon Lopez Caro (caretaker) – December 2005 to June 2006 – 24 games, 50 per cent won – Honours: None.

Fabio Capello – July 2006 to June 2007 (sacked) – 50 games, 56 per cent won – Honours: 1 La Liga

Bernd Schuster – July 2007 to December 2008 (mutual agreement) – 75 games, 59 per cent won – Honours 1 La Liga, 1 Spanish Super Cup

Juande Ramos – December 2008 to June 2009 (end of contract) – 27 games, 67 per cent won – Honours: None.

Manuel Pellegrini – June 2009 to May 2010 (sacked) – 48 games, 75 per cent won – Honours: None.

Jose Mourinho – May 2010 to June 2013 (mutual agreement) – 178 games, 72 per cent won – Honours; 1 La Liga, 1 Copa del Rey, 1 Spanish Super Cup

Carlo Ancelotti – June 2013 to May 2015 (sacked) – 119 games, 75 per cent won – Honours: 1 Copa del Rey, 1 Champions League, 1 Club World Cup, 1 Copa del Rey.

Rafael Benítez 3 June 2015 to 4 January 2016 (sacked)

Zinedine Zidane 4 January 2016 to 31 May 2018 1 La Liga 1 Supercopa de España 3 UEFA Champions League 2 UEFA Super Cup 2 FIFA Club World Cup

Julen Lopetegui 12 June 2018 to 29 October 2018 (sacked)

Santiago Solari 30 October 2018 to 11 March 2019 1 fifa world cup (sacked)

Zinedine Zidane 11 March 2019 to 27 May 2021 1 La Liga 1 Supercopa de España

That's what a successful club with standards does.
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It’s a club that is run very differently to United in the way that they have more of a coach than a manager, a coach who does not have much say in player recruitment for instance. It allows them to chop and change managers often without having to go back to square one to find a new style and a new squad to fit that style.
 
Macern said:
It’s a club that is run very differently to United in the way that they have more of a coach than a manager, a coach who does not have much say in player recruitment for instance. It allows them to chop and change managers often without having to go back to square one to find a new style and a new squad to fit that style.
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That's how Sir Jim wants to run us, I remember him saying it in an interview.
 
UnofficialDevil said:
Most successful team on the planet?
Real Madrid.
In 41 years, the 37 full-time managers have lasted an average of one year and four months, that's 70 games.


Vicente del Bosque – November 1999 to June 2003 (contract not renewed) – 233 games, 55 per cent won – Honours: 2 La LIga, 2 Champions League, 1 UEFA Super Cup, 1 Spanish Super Cup, 1 Intercontinental Cup

Carlos Queiroz – June 2003 to May 2004 (sacked) – 59 games, 58 per cent won – Honours: 1 Spanish Super Cup

Jose Antonio Camacho – May 2004 to September 2004 (resigned) – 6 games, 67 per cent won – Honours: None.

Mariano Garcia Remon – September 2004 to December 2004 (demoted to coach) – 20 games, 60 per cent won – Honours: None.

Vanderlei Luxemburgo – December 2004 to December 2005 (sacked) – 45 games, 62 per cent won – Honours: None.

Juan Ramon Lopez Caro (caretaker) – December 2005 to June 2006 – 24 games, 50 per cent won – Honours: None.

Fabio Capello – July 2006 to June 2007 (sacked) – 50 games, 56 per cent won – Honours: 1 La Liga

Bernd Schuster – July 2007 to December 2008 (mutual agreement) – 75 games, 59 per cent won – Honours 1 La Liga, 1 Spanish Super Cup

Juande Ramos – December 2008 to June 2009 (end of contract) – 27 games, 67 per cent won – Honours: None.

Manuel Pellegrini – June 2009 to May 2010 (sacked) – 48 games, 75 per cent won – Honours: None.

Jose Mourinho – May 2010 to June 2013 (mutual agreement) – 178 games, 72 per cent won – Honours; 1 La Liga, 1 Copa del Rey, 1 Spanish Super Cup

Carlo Ancelotti – June 2013 to May 2015 (sacked) – 119 games, 75 per cent won – Honours: 1 Copa del Rey, 1 Champions League, 1 Club World Cup, 1 Copa del Rey.

Rafael Benítez 3 June 2015 to 4 January 2016 (sacked)

Zinedine Zidane 4 January 2016 to 31 May 2018 1 La Liga 1 Supercopa de España 3 UEFA Champions League 2 UEFA Super Cup 2 FIFA Club World Cup

Julen Lopetegui 12 June 2018 to 29 October 2018 (sacked)

Santiago Solari 30 October 2018 to 11 March 2019 1 fifa world cup (sacked)

Zinedine Zidane 11 March 2019 to 27 May 2021 1 La Liga 1 Supercopa de España

That's what a successful club with standards does.
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How about we look at the most successful clubs and dynasties in the English game? How about we look at the current best 3 teams in the country and the fact that they have the longest serving managers? You can't compare the culture at Real Madrid with anywhere else, they have a different structure and advantages playing in Spain that English clubs simply don't and can't have. The day an English club can have an almost monopoly over the Balon d'Or calibre of players signing for them, maybe then we can also not care about the manager as much. And that's just one difference that makes the comparison silly.

I am not defending EtH here as I think he can have no complaints. I think his communication skills are simply too lacking to manage a club of our profile. But to suggest that there is only one way to run a football club using Real as the example is just cherry picking without considering all factors.
 
Theonas said:
How about we look at the most successful clubs and dynasties in the English game? How about we look at the current best 3 teams in the country and the fact that they have the longest serving managers? You can't compare the culture at Real Madrid with anywhere else, they have a different structure and advantages playing in Spain that English clubs simply don't and can't have. The day an English club can have an almost monopoly over the Balon d'Or calibre of players signing for them, maybe then we can also not care about the manager as much. And that's just one difference that makes the comparison silly.

I am not defending EtH here as I think he can have no complaints. I think his communication skills are simply too lacking to manage a club of our profile. But to suggest that there is only one way to run a football club using Real as the example is just cherry picking without considering all factors.
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Name one club with great recent success who had a long-term manager.

And to be clear, recent is 10-15 years and long-term success is a trophy a year on average. So Kloppo doesn't count.
 
TsuWave said:
Us having a final tomorrow means what exactly? Journos have to do their job
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So they suddenly got information about sacking. Day before final. Why do I have hard time to believe that. Not only that, lets pretend it is true. You can’t wait after the final? There is time and place for everything. I don’t like that behaviour. Club needs to protect itself from this kind of stuff.
The Firestarter said:
You can't write what you want. There are libel laws for that. However, mostly , you can write true things whenever you want, with some exceptions such a secuirty of the country or if people lives are in danger. A fecking cup final is not a acceptable exception though.
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A cup final is important. You don’t go out with so called news with some sources before that. We have no idea if things are true or not. What we know is that we have the FA cup final. Wait a day or two to print that article.

Rightnr said:
It's rather pathetic how some of these fanboys are willing to encourage a wannabe dictatorship but when their guy was literally insulting fans criticising his shite tactics, it was being encouraged.

Bloody ridiculous.
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Fanboys? Laughable. It is not about sacking or not but the timing of so called news. You don’t write that day before a big cup final. Wait a day after. This is done on purpose to disrupt preperations for the final. Everybody can hide behind ”sources”.
 
Rightnr said:
Name one club with great recent success who had a long-term manager.

And to be clear, recent is 10-15 years and long-term success is a trophy a year on average. So Kloppo doesn't count.
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But that's a very vague parameter. PSG and Bayern had one trophy a year. Are you suggesting it's because how they treat the manager's role without taking into consideration the dynamic of their domestic league? Liverpool's achievements under Klopp is more significant than PSG's trophy a year benchmark. Every country is different, not better or worse, it's just that the dynamic and nuances make the playing field. No one in England can do what Real, Barcelona, Bayern or PSG do, especially in the past 10 to 15 years.
 
Rightnr said:
Name one club with great recent success who had a long-term manager.

And to be clear, recent is 10-15 years and long-term success is a trophy a year on average. So Kloppo doesn't count.
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You don't think Klopp was a success at Liverpool? I know they're rivals and all but that's a wild take.
 
We always make a mess out of things.

Not only should this have been done months ago, it gets leaked before the biggest game of our season.
 
90 + 5min said:
So they suddenly got information about sacking. Day before final. Why do I have hard time to believe that. Not only that, lets pretend it is true. You can’t wait after the final? There is time and place for everything. I don’t like that behaviour. Club needs to protect itself from this kind of stuff.

A cup final is important. You don’t go out with so called news with some sources before that. We have no idea if things are true or not. What we know is that we have the FA cup final. Wait a day or two to print that article.


Fanboys? Laughable. It is not about sacking or not but the timing of so called news. You don’t write that day before a big cup final. Wait a day after. This is done on purpose to disrupt preperations for the final. Everybody can hide behind ”sources”.
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You're talking yourself into a conspiracy. The guy that broke the news is on the Chelsea side. He just got the exclusive and went for it.

Nothing more, nothing less. The whole country outside of EtH fanboys expects us to get whipped tomorrow. It's not like we're going for a treble.

I am much more worried about our soon-to-be-sacked manager leaving Casemiro on the bench and playing McTominay, as opposed to the poor millionaire players' preparation being disrupted when we've had leaks for weeks they themselves expect him to be sacked and Bruno's come out begging for more money today.

Not to mention the interview EtH gave that's airing tomorrow morning.
 
UnofficialDevil said:
Most successful team on the planet?
Real Madrid.
In 41 years, the 37 full-time managers have lasted an average of one year and four months, that's 70 games.


Vicente del Bosque – November 1999 to June 2003 (contract not renewed) – 233 games, 55 per cent won – Honours: 2 La LIga, 2 Champions League, 1 UEFA Super Cup, 1 Spanish Super Cup, 1 Intercontinental Cup

Carlos Queiroz – June 2003 to May 2004 (sacked) – 59 games, 58 per cent won – Honours: 1 Spanish Super Cup

Jose Antonio Camacho – May 2004 to September 2004 (resigned) – 6 games, 67 per cent won – Honours: None.

Mariano Garcia Remon – September 2004 to December 2004 (demoted to coach) – 20 games, 60 per cent won – Honours: None.

Vanderlei Luxemburgo – December 2004 to December 2005 (sacked) – 45 games, 62 per cent won – Honours: None.

Juan Ramon Lopez Caro (caretaker) – December 2005 to June 2006 – 24 games, 50 per cent won – Honours: None.

Fabio Capello – July 2006 to June 2007 (sacked) – 50 games, 56 per cent won – Honours: 1 La Liga

Bernd Schuster – July 2007 to December 2008 (mutual agreement) – 75 games, 59 per cent won – Honours 1 La Liga, 1 Spanish Super Cup

Juande Ramos – December 2008 to June 2009 (end of contract) – 27 games, 67 per cent won – Honours: None.

Manuel Pellegrini – June 2009 to May 2010 (sacked) – 48 games, 75 per cent won – Honours: None.

Jose Mourinho – May 2010 to June 2013 (mutual agreement) – 178 games, 72 per cent won – Honours; 1 La Liga, 1 Copa del Rey, 1 Spanish Super Cup

Carlo Ancelotti – June 2013 to May 2015 (sacked) – 119 games, 75 per cent won – Honours: 1 Copa del Rey, 1 Champions League, 1 Club World Cup, 1 Copa del Rey.

Rafael Benítez 3 June 2015 to 4 January 2016 (sacked)

Zinedine Zidane 4 January 2016 to 31 May 2018 1 La Liga 1 Supercopa de España 3 UEFA Champions League 2 UEFA Super Cup 2 FIFA Club World Cup

Julen Lopetegui 12 June 2018 to 29 October 2018 (sacked)

Santiago Solari 30 October 2018 to 11 March 2019 1 fifa world cup (sacked)

Zinedine Zidane 11 March 2019 to 27 May 2021 1 La Liga 1 Supercopa de España

That's what a successful club with standards does.
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That list faded like Eriksen in the second half.
 
Thom Merrilin said:
You don't think Klopp was a success at Liverpool? I know they're rivals and all but that's a wild take.
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His success is wildly overblown. Of course he did well but it's more the fact they were so shit for so long that makes him look so good.

He was never great in finals and if it wasn't for the London Cowboys, they'd easily be sitting on 1 CL and 1 league in 9 years in the reign of one of their greatest managers.
 
Shinjch said:
Whether we do win or not, for all this stuff to be coming out on the eve of a final is just ridiculous.

By all means sack him after it, win or lose, but the media management is atrocious.
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What are we expecting INEOS to do here? The moment we start sounding out replacements you involve third parties and with that the chance of someone speaking they can’t control that.
 
Rightnr said:
His success is wildly overblown. Of course he did well but it's more the fact they were so shit for so long that makes him look so good.

He was never great in finals and if it wasn't for the London Cowboys, they'd easily be sitting on 1 CL and 1 league in 9 years in the reign of one of their greatest managers.
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Success is relative. Since he took over, only City and Real can claim to be comfortably ahead. The rest have achieved comparable or lower especially when you put into context the competition and resources.
 
UnofficialDevil said:
Most successful team on the planet?
Real Madrid.
In 41 years, the 37 full-time managers have lasted an average of one year and four months, that's 70 games.


Vicente del Bosque – November 1999 to June 2003 (contract not renewed) – 233 games, 55 per cent won – Honours: 2 La LIga, 2 Champions League, 1 UEFA Super Cup, 1 Spanish Super Cup, 1 Intercontinental Cup

Carlos Queiroz – June 2003 to May 2004 (sacked) – 59 games, 58 per cent won – Honours: 1 Spanish Super Cup

Jose Antonio Camacho – May 2004 to September 2004 (resigned) – 6 games, 67 per cent won – Honours: None.

Mariano Garcia Remon – September 2004 to December 2004 (demoted to coach) – 20 games, 60 per cent won – Honours: None.

Vanderlei Luxemburgo – December 2004 to December 2005 (sacked) – 45 games, 62 per cent won – Honours: None.

Juan Ramon Lopez Caro (caretaker) – December 2005 to June 2006 – 24 games, 50 per cent won – Honours: None.

Fabio Capello – July 2006 to June 2007 (sacked) – 50 games, 56 per cent won – Honours: 1 La Liga

Bernd Schuster – July 2007 to December 2008 (mutual agreement) – 75 games, 59 per cent won – Honours 1 La Liga, 1 Spanish Super Cup

Juande Ramos – December 2008 to June 2009 (end of contract) – 27 games, 67 per cent won – Honours: None.

Manuel Pellegrini – June 2009 to May 2010 (sacked) – 48 games, 75 per cent won – Honours: None.

Jose Mourinho – May 2010 to June 2013 (mutual agreement) – 178 games, 72 per cent won – Honours; 1 La Liga, 1 Copa del Rey, 1 Spanish Super Cup

Carlo Ancelotti – June 2013 to May 2015 (sacked) – 119 games, 75 per cent won – Honours: 1 Copa del Rey, 1 Champions League, 1 Club World Cup, 1 Copa del Rey.

Rafael Benítez 3 June 2015 to 4 January 2016 (sacked)

Zinedine Zidane 4 January 2016 to 31 May 2018 1 La Liga 1 Supercopa de España 3 UEFA Champions League 2 UEFA Super Cup 2 FIFA Club World Cup

Julen Lopetegui 12 June 2018 to 29 October 2018 (sacked)

Santiago Solari 30 October 2018 to 11 March 2019 1 fifa world cup (sacked)

Zinedine Zidane 11 March 2019 to 27 May 2021 1 La Liga 1 Supercopa de España

That's what a successful club with standards does.
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This should be a god damn sticky for all those idiots that keep repeating that you have to keep a manager however shite he is to be successful!
 
Ali Dia said:
I probably would have given ETH a clean slate until Xmas and seen how McKenna got on but now that McKenna is about to be picked up by a big club I think it’s the right call. Letting it get out before the final is poor form. Hiring Tuchel would be horrible: I really hope this isn’t true
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Yeah it would be crazy if we hired a CL winning coach over someone who has never coached in the PL before, let's hope we make the right choice. :rolleyes:
 
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