The Guardian - Manchester United to sack Erik ten Hag after the FA Cup Final

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the correct decision

shame they couldn't keep it under wraps until after the final, but we needed to approach candidates earlier than that or risk missing out
 
MadDogg said:
He's not going to get it wrong though, is he? We all know ETH is getting sacked. Plus reporters get things wrong all the time and don't get sacked.
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Depends on the things then. This is the kind of story that would harm his papers reputation if he got it wrong.
 
MadDogg said:
It's amazing how people keep saying this while not actually being able to name the bad eggs (other than Rashford). Of course that's because the large majority of this squad are players that ETH signed, players ETH promoted, players that ETH decided to play more than previous managers did, and players that ETH decided to give new contracts. All the players are also obviously trying their best, with the exception of Rashford and maybe Casemiro for a month or two. Yet it's all about the players, rather than the most obvious example of bad managerial decisions over the course of a season that I can personally remember.
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Don’t worry we will be here wondering who our new manager would be in 2 years after getting our hopes up the first season and then crumble the season after.
 
If this is true, I have some fairly conflicted thoughts.

On one hand I understand the decision, I expected that the new footballing structure would want to bring their own man in, and our season has been poor, even with mitigating circumstances. The names we're being linked with fill me with dread (RDZ, McKenna, Southgate, etc), but I'm sure there are some decent managers out that hopefully we're looking at instead.

On the other hand though, it's absolutely classless that this has leaked before the final, and it points to something frankly rotten in the club that it's gotten out again. The way we handled LVG left a really bad taste in my mouth, even though I didn't doubt for a second that it was the right decision, and this feels worse given the timing and that I'd hoped the lack of class was a one off rather than endemic.

There's a lot of folks in here effectively dancing on the grave of Ten Hag's United career in this thread, which I find a bit sad. I get thinking it's the right decision, even feeling happy he's gone for the ones that really can't stand him, but I honestly can't see how any United can be happy with the way the club has handled it. Not only is the leaking unprofessional, it's undermining our preparations for the cup final.
 
golden_blunder said:
Sure we will turn blind eyes to 19 defeats, negative goal difference!, numerous negative records being broken, finishing bottom of the easiest CL group, and wasted millions of pounds on trying to make this magical land of no midfield work. Now that is embarrassing.

by the way do you think Ten Hag is the only person to face media abuse?
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Ah so we are a club that defines it's manager by one season now, regardless of a good first season. The great United way. Best fans in the world. Don't show your bias or anything. Fan community my hole. Thankfully this place is no more than an echo chamber of a section of Manchester United fans. As embarrassing as this whole circus show. 1 post left for today and thank god will be my last. May as well ban the account. I don't have enough clown makeup to keep posting here.
 
red.knight said:
Our woes started way before Ten Hag. I remember Sir Ratcliffe saying during his interview that it was good how Arteta was given time despite finishing 8th in his first 2 seasons. They say that it is the definition of insanity, to keep doing the same things over again, whilst expecting a different result each time...
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So we should get rid of the players instead? Oh, we already did that. By the start of next season we'll have barely any players left from before Ole. But I'm sure you'll ignore that and keep pretending that it's the same players who have failed under Moyes, LVG, Mourinho, Ole and now ETH.

The manager has to show that he is the right person to be given a good amount of time. ETH has done the exact opposite of that, so allowing him to do the same thing over again fits that definition of insanity.
 
It is terrible for the club, the manager, and the players to have this article come out a day before what has turned out to be the most important game of this season. The players do not need this distraction, the manager doesn't need to have the media frenzy before the game and the attention during it, and surely the club do not want to look this classless and disrespectful.

I think ETH is a poor manager, I wanted him sacked a long time ago, and I am very glad we're letting him go. I don't think we are winning under him, tomorrow. But I also think that we should be treating a United manager with respect. ETH has been classy during his tenure here despite all the vitriol coming his way, and if you're not fuming at how a current United manager is being treated with the timing of this release, you should reconsider what values you expect from this club. I hated that LVG was told of his sacking through the media after winning the cup final - this is even worse.

Who leaked it, then? If it's intentional, it can't be the current manager's entourage, ETH is a classier guy than that and this would be self-destruction. Can't be the club briefing it, no sense at all to do it now after waiting so long. Can't be any of the major players who care about the game (or any players at all - if the players knew by now, the news would have leaked a while back).

The only two sources I can think of, if intentional, are (1) someone involved in our new manager talks, or (2) a rogue player who is somehow in the know and doing a Pogba-esque leak just now because they dislike the manager. Or it wasn't intentional at all, and someone in the know ended up making a mistake or was careless.

Or, and this is entirely possible though unlikely (we all kinda knew ETH was mostly gone), Steinberg is making shit up without legit sources. The profession is vile these days, and these footy journalists will gladly pimp out their mothers for clicks. Mind you, this leak could have happened weeks ago, Steinberg being a cnut of a journalist decided to maximize engagement a day before the final.

No matter what the source, intentional or otherwise, this is a really terrible look on INEOS. Such sheer incompetence. I have no hopes for this management going forward.
 
red.knight said:
Don’t worry we will be here wondering who our new manager would be in 2 years after getting our hopes up the first season and then crumble the season after.
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We are improving, by sacking ETH we are going one step forward. Now we not to appoint the right one.

Deal with it, ETh is not Fergie
 
stevoc said:
There's more, taken from Twitter.

Records broken by Erik ten Hag:

- Manchester United hadn't lost 13 games by Christmas since 1930, until Erik Ten Hag
- Manchester United hadn't gone 4 games in a row without scoring since 1992, until Erik Ten Hag
- Manchester United hadn't lost back to back games to West Ham since 2007, until Erik Ten Hag
- No Manchester United manager has conceded 20 goals to Liverpool/City in their first 7 games against them since Alfred Albut in the 1800s, until Erik Ten Hag.
- Manchester United had never finished with as few as 5 points in the CL group stages in the competitions history, until Erik Ten Hag
- No English club had ever conceded 15 goals in the CL group stages in the competitions history until Erik Ten Hag
- Manchester United had never lost 4 of 6 CL group games in the competitions history, until Erik Ten Hag
- Manchester United had never failed to keep a clean sheet in 5 of 6 CL group games in the competitions history, until Erik Ten Hag
- Manchester United had never lost 12 of the opening 23 games of the season, until Erik Ten Hag
- Manchester United hadn't finished bottom of their CL group since 2006. Until Erik Ten Hag.
- Bournemouth had never won at Old Trafford, Until Erik Ten Hag - Bournemouth had never scored 3 goals at Old Trafford, until Erik Ten Hag
- Bournemouth had never kept a clean sheet at Old Trafford, until Erik Ten Hag
- Manchester United had never lost 7 of the opening 16 PL games, until Erik Ten Hag
- Manchester United hadn't lost back to back league games against Newcastle since 1972, until Erik Ten Hag.
- Manchester United hadn't lost 3 games in a row to Newcastle United since 1922, until Erik Ten Hag
- Newcastle hadn't kept 3 clean sheets in a row against Manchester United since 1897, until Erik Ten Hag
- Manchester United had never lost 6 of the opening 14 games of a PL season, until Erik Ten Hag
- No English team in CL history had ever conceded 14 goals in the first 5 CL group games, until Erik Ten Hag
- Manchester United had never conceded 3+ goals in 4 different CL games in a season, until Erik Ten Hag
- Manchester United had never lost a CL game they were leading by 2 goals, until Erik Ten Hag, twice since.
- Manchester United hadn't lost a game they were leading by 2+ goals since 2014, until Erik Ten Hag
- Manchester United had never dropped this many points from a winning position in CL history, until Erik Ten Hag
- Manchester United had never conceded 4+ in two CL group games, until Erik Ten Hag
- Manchester United hadn't lost 9 of the opening 17 games since 1974, until Erik Ten Hag
- No team had ever give away 4 penalties in their first 4 CL group games in the competitions history, until Erik Ten Hag
- No player as young as Roony Bardghji had scored against Manchester United in the CL, until Erik Ten Hag
- Manchester United hadn't lost 8 of the opening 15 games in a season since 1962, until Erik Ten Hag
- Manchester United hadn't lost 5 of their first 10 games at Old Trafford since 1931, until Erik Ten Hag
- Newcastle hadn't won at Old Trafford since 2013, until Erik Ten Hag.
- Newcastle hadn't won a cup game against Manchester Uniteds since 1994, until Erik Ten Hag.
- Manchester United hadn't lost twice in a row to Newcastle since 1972, until Erik Ten Hag
- No post war Manchester United manager had conceded 20 goals to City and Liverpool in their first 6 games against them, until Erik Ten Hag
- Manchester United hadn't lost 5 of the opening 10 league games in 36 years, until Erik Ten Hag
- Galatasaray hadn't won a game on English soil in 117 years of existing, until Erik Ten Hag.
- Manchester United had never lost the opening 2 CL group games, until Erik Ten Hag.
- Manchester United had never conceded 7 goals in the opening 2 CL group games, until Erik Ten Hag.
- Manchester United had never lost an home and away match to Crystal Palace in the Premier League, until Erik Ten Hag.
- Manchester United just had their lowest ever finish in the Premier League era, 8th
- Manchester United have conceded 83 goals this season, which is the highest ever in their history

But yeah give him another year for some reason.
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Most useless records I have ever seen, who even cares about stuff like this ffs. :lol:
 
MadMike said:
Why? It makes 0 sense.

Will the manager be less or more determined to win now? I reckon more. A title is a title and you always want to win, but knowing you'll be out of job soon you got to try and woo prospective employers. If we get thrashed out there it won't reflect well on him at all. Who'll want him? He has to salvage his pride now. To show that his sacking was maybe harsh. He wouldn't have that to worry about, if he was staying here for sure.

Would the players be any less determined? Again, no. They will want to win a title and be in Europe next season for their own careers. Those who like ETH might also have extra motivation to win it for him as a send off. And those who rejoice at ETH's sacking will have a burden lifted from their shoulders.
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A lot of these players strike me as, to put it kindly, confidence players. It's pretty clear they need motivating in order to give their all, as they've shown they're willing to toss off their top 4 chances because they're not inspired by the manager.

What sort of chance does Ten Hag have of motivating them tomorrow? "Right lads, I'm getting sacked tomorrow but go out there and impress me!"

Most of these players know they'll have a clean slate under a new manager next season, so they're unlikely to run those extra yards tomorrow. Unfortunately, cup finals and local derbies don't mean anywhere near as much to the players as they do to the fans.
 
So people have no hope for this management because we had to act and approach potential targets before they went elsewhere. They'd prefer if we didn't do that and waited, all that to not hurt Ten Hag's feelings. Okay.
 
Gabriel Djemba-Bebe said:
A lot of these players strike me as, to put it kindly, confidence players. It's pretty clear they need motivating in order to give their all, as they've shown they're willing to toss off their top 4 chances because they're not inspired by the manager.

What sort of chance does Ten Hag have of motivating them tomorrow? "Right lads, I'm getting sacked tomorrow but go out there and impress me!"

Most of these players know they'll have a clean slate under a new manager next season, so they're unlikely to run those extra yards tomorrow. Unfortunately, cup finals and local derbies don't mean anywhere near as much to the players as they do to the fans.
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I think there's a fair chance that the players will be more motivated knowing that their new manager will be watching than if they thought ETH will continue next season.
 
Irwin99 said:
Horrible timing on the eve of the cup final though. Surely the club could have just put a statement out, even if it's prevaricating or economical with the truth: The club is 100% focused on the FA cup final and we fully back EtH, the staff and the players. After an appalling season the fans deserve to look forward to a cup final and every effort will be made to stop 115 charges winning a double.

Instead it feels very rotten and classless. Even if the manager and players already knew, or however the information got out, it just feels wrong for fans to know on the eve of a cup final. THAT should be the focus, nothing else.
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Gator Nate said:
INEOS are proving themselves no better than the Glazers in the class department.
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SB16 said:
Whoever leaked it, doing so before a cup final is shambolic. Literally everything to do with United reeks of amateur hour management.
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SuperiorXI said:
What it is is piss poor, an abject failure in proper club management. It's unacceptable, hugely disrespectful and extremelly poor timing.
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Eriku said:
Absolutely idiotic for this to drop the day before our most important match of the season.

Can only hope the lads will be keen to send him off with a trophy, but I imagine it’s not ideal for their headspace.

Should have sacked him earlier when he persisted with suicidal tactics allowing every side to counter us to death with ease, giving a new coach a chance to turn us around.
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RedTiger said:
Dumpster fire of a club.
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The Hilton said:
On the other hand though, it's absolutely classless that this has leaked before the final, and it points to something frankly rotten in the club that it's gotten out again. The way we handled LVG left a really bad taste in my mouth, even though I didn't doubt for a second that it was the right decision, and this feels worse given the timing and that I'd hoped the lack of class was a one off rather than endemic.

There's a lot of folks in here effectively dancing on the grave of Ten Hag's United career in this thread, which I find a bit sad. I get thinking it's the right decision, even feeling happy he's gone for the ones that really can't stand him, but I honestly can't see how any United can be happy with the way the club has handled it. Not only is the leaking unprofessional, it's undermining our preparations for the cup final.
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Agree with all of these posts.
 
Gasmeter said:
Ah so we are a club that defines it's manager by one season now, regardless of a good first season. The great United way. Best fans in the world. Don't show your bias or anything. Fan community my hole. Thankfully this place is no more than an echo chamber of a section of Manchester United fans. As embarrassing as this whole circus show. 1 post left for today and thank god will be my last. May as well ban the account. I don't have enough clown makeup to keep posting here.
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Jog on then. Don’t forget to call Erik back home for his tea
 
MadDogg said:
So we should get rid of the players instead? Oh, we already did that. By the start of next season we'll have barely any players left from before Ole. But I'm sure you'll ignore that and keep pretending that it's the same players who have failed under Moyes, LVG, Mourinho, Ole and now ETH.

The manager has to show that he is the right person to be given a good amount of time. ETH has done the exact opposite of that, so allowing him to do the same thing over again fits that definition of insanity.
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yes, I would only keep Onana, Dalot, Martinez, Kobbie, Garnacho, Hojlund, Amad and academy players (Kambwala, Harry Amass, etc) and get rid of the rest. Standards comes with time. Especially when the club needs a lot of work in the first place. The guy has not been here two seasons, playing in his 3rd final. Ten Hag deserves some respect.
 
stevoc said:
There's more, taken from Twitter.

Records broken by Erik ten Hag:

- Manchester United hadn't lost 13 games by Christmas since 1930, until Erik Ten Hag
- Manchester United hadn't gone 4 games in a row without scoring since 1992, until Erik Ten Hag
- Manchester United hadn't lost back to back games to West Ham since 2007, until Erik Ten Hag
- No Manchester United manager has conceded 20 goals to Liverpool/City in their first 7 games against them since Alfred Albut in the 1800s, until Erik Ten Hag.
- Manchester United had never finished with as few as 5 points in the CL group stages in the competitions history, until Erik Ten Hag
- No English club had ever conceded 15 goals in the CL group stages in the competitions history until Erik Ten Hag
- Manchester United had never lost 4 of 6 CL group games in the competitions history, until Erik Ten Hag
- Manchester United had never failed to keep a clean sheet in 5 of 6 CL group games in the competitions history, until Erik Ten Hag
- Manchester United had never lost 12 of the opening 23 games of the season, until Erik Ten Hag
- Manchester United hadn't finished bottom of their CL group since 2006. Until Erik Ten Hag.
- Bournemouth had never won at Old Trafford, Until Erik Ten Hag - Bournemouth had never scored 3 goals at Old Trafford, until Erik Ten Hag
- Bournemouth had never kept a clean sheet at Old Trafford, until Erik Ten Hag
- Manchester United had never lost 7 of the opening 16 PL games, until Erik Ten Hag
- Manchester United hadn't lost back to back league games against Newcastle since 1972, until Erik Ten Hag.
- Manchester United hadn't lost 3 games in a row to Newcastle United since 1922, until Erik Ten Hag
- Newcastle hadn't kept 3 clean sheets in a row against Manchester United since 1897, until Erik Ten Hag
- Manchester United had never lost 6 of the opening 14 games of a PL season, until Erik Ten Hag
- No English team in CL history had ever conceded 14 goals in the first 5 CL group games, until Erik Ten Hag
- Manchester United had never conceded 3+ goals in 4 different CL games in a season, until Erik Ten Hag
- Manchester United had never lost a CL game they were leading by 2 goals, until Erik Ten Hag, twice since.
- Manchester United hadn't lost a game they were leading by 2+ goals since 2014, until Erik Ten Hag
- Manchester United had never dropped this many points from a winning position in CL history, until Erik Ten Hag
- Manchester United had never conceded 4+ in two CL group games, until Erik Ten Hag
- Manchester United hadn't lost 9 of the opening 17 games since 1974, until Erik Ten Hag
- No team had ever give away 4 penalties in their first 4 CL group games in the competitions history, until Erik Ten Hag
- No player as young as Roony Bardghji had scored against Manchester United in the CL, until Erik Ten Hag
- Manchester United hadn't lost 8 of the opening 15 games in a season since 1962, until Erik Ten Hag
- Manchester United hadn't lost 5 of their first 10 games at Old Trafford since 1931, until Erik Ten Hag
- Newcastle hadn't won at Old Trafford since 2013, until Erik Ten Hag.
- Newcastle hadn't won a cup game against Manchester Uniteds since 1994, until Erik Ten Hag.
- Manchester United hadn't lost twice in a row to Newcastle since 1972, until Erik Ten Hag
- No post war Manchester United manager had conceded 20 goals to City and Liverpool in their first 6 games against them, until Erik Ten Hag
- Manchester United hadn't lost 5 of the opening 10 league games in 36 years, until Erik Ten Hag
- Galatasaray hadn't won a game on English soil in 117 years of existing, until Erik Ten Hag.
- Manchester United had never lost the opening 2 CL group games, until Erik Ten Hag.
- Manchester United had never conceded 7 goals in the opening 2 CL group games, until Erik Ten Hag.
- Manchester United had never lost an home and away match to Crystal Palace in the Premier League, until Erik Ten Hag.
- Manchester United just had their lowest ever finish in the Premier League era, 8th
- Manchester United have conceded 83 goals this season, which is the highest ever in their history

But yeah give him another year for some reason.
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:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
 
Gasmeter said:
Ah so we are a club that defines it's manager by one season now, regardless of a good first season. The great United way. Best fans in the world. Don't show your bias or anything. Fan community my hole. Thankfully this place is no more than an echo chamber of a section of Manchester United fans. As embarrassing as this whole circus show. 1 post left for today and thank god will be my last. May as well ban the account. I don't have enough clown makeup to keep posting here.
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:lol: This is what an unhealthy attachment to the manager does to a person.
 
golden_blunder said:
The same Bayern who says they were releasing him, then got multiple no answers before going back to him begging to stay before he told them to feck off
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True but that's more the wrong choice of sack or not sack, than being open about it.
 
Shocking decision if true. Expected more from INEOS. Feels like we haven't learned from our mistakes post Fergie.
 
MadDogg said:
I think there's a fair chance that the players will be more motivated knowing that their new manager will be watching than if they thought ETH will continue next season.
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It's very unlikely to have that effect when the new manager hasn't even been officially announced yet. To the players, the new manager is merely a faceless entity right now. We saw a lot of these same players give up under Rangnick even when their future manager would be watching the games (Ten Hag was sat in the stands during Rangnick's last game as they put in a pitiful performance at Selhurst Park).
 
Gabriel Djemba-Bebe said:
A lot of these players strike me as, to put it kindly, confidence players. It's pretty clear they need motivating in order to give their all, as they've shown they're willing to toss off their top 4 chances because they're not inspired by the manager.

What sort of chance does Ten Hag have of motivating them tomorrow? "Right lads, I'm getting sacked tomorrow but go out there and impress me!"

Most of these players know they'll have a clean slate under a new manager next season, so they're unlikely to run those extra yards tomorrow. Unfortunately, cup finals and local derbies don't mean anywhere near as much to the players as they do to the fans.
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ETH is shit motivator anyway and he failed to motivate them all season. They're likely to be much more motivated knowing he's gone.

On the bolded, the manager doesn't make the decisions alone any more. They have to convince the new directors they're worth keeping. They'll want to play in Europe to save their 25% salary. They're also professional athletes, the idea that the chance to win a trophy, save their paychecks and play in Europe next season won't motivate them is bonkers.
 
it's the correct decision. Timing sucks, but this is down to the FA Cup final while other teams like Brighton and Chelsea have already made moves to fill their vacancies. Have to move now or potentially miss out.
 
Why are so many people pissed at the club when it's pretty obvious the leaks came from elsewhere?
 
So it’s a 3 way race for McKenna then? Bet poch and De Zerbi will be frustrated. Poch especially as he’s desperate to manage us. This is what will probably happen. We will get McKenna, Chelsea will get De Zerbi and Poch will go abroad somewhere. Maybe Barca.
 
izec said:
We are improving, by sacking ETH we are going one step forward. Now we not to appoint the right one.

Deal with it, ETh is not Fergie
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There will not be another like Fergie. We have not won a league title for 11 years and counting. From top dogs to also-rans: our new reality. Sacking managers every 2 years won’t change anything. Deal with it.
 
DJ_21 said:
So it’s a 3 way race for McKenna then? Bet poch and De Zerbi will be frustrated. Poch especially as he’s desperate to manage us. This is what will probably happen. We will get McKenna, Chelsea will get De Zerbi and Poch will go abroad somewhere. Maybe Barca.
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Barca is already sorted
 
MadMike said:
ETH is shit motivator anyway and he failed to motivate them all season. They're likely to be much more motivated knowing he's gone.

On the bolded, the manager doesn't make the decisions alone any more. They have to convince the new directors they're worth keeping. They'll want to play in Europe to save their 25% salary. They're also professional athletes, the idea that the chance to win a trophy, save their paychecks and play in Europe next season won't motivate them is bonkers.
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It's no coincidence that we played better after palace, starting with putting up a decent fight against Arsenal.

People shouldn't be so doom and gloom about this. We're not a normal club.
 
MadMike said:
Why? It makes 0 sense.

Will the manager be less or more determined to win now? I reckon more. A title is a title and you always want to win, but knowing you'll be out of job soon you got to try and woo prospective employers. If we get thrashed out there it won't reflect well on him at all. Who'll want him? He has to salvage his pride now. To show that his sacking was maybe harsh. He wouldn't have that to worry about, if he was staying here for sure.

Would the players be any less determined? Again, no. They will want to win a title and be in Europe next season for their own careers. Those who like ETH might also have extra motivation to win it for him as a send off. And those who rejoice at ETH's sacking will have a burden lifted from their shoulders.
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MadDogg said:
I think there's a fair chance that the players will be more motivated knowing that their new manager will be watching than if they thought ETH will continue next season.
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Can you guys point to any previous examples of a manager announcing their leaving, voluntarily or otherwise, and it being a good thing for the team? All the evidence I've seen points to the opposite; the manager loses authority and the players lose at least a few %, which is enough to be the difference between success and failure. There's evidence as early as this season with Klopp, and even the greatest motivator of all time in Fergie has admitted that the players put their tools down when he announced his retirement the first time around.
 
red.knight said:
yes, I would only keep Onana, Dalot, Martinez, Kobbie, Garnacho, Hojlund, Amad and academy players (Kambwala, Harry Amass, etc) and get rid of the rest. Standards comes with time. Especially when the club needs a lot of work in the first place. The guy has not been here two seasons, playing in his 3rd final. Ten Hag deserves some respect.
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ETH basically continued to play the same way that Ole did last season, just with better players in defence and midfield (admittedly worse players in attack) and had a little more success. He then changed to do things his own way this season and proceeded to have our worst season in modern history. It was obvious right from preseason that the formation and system that he had us playing would never work, but he has refused to change it and all the criticisms that people had at the very start of the season have come to pass. The things he has implemented are the exact opposite of what almost all successful teams are based on these days. We have never had less control in games than we have now, we have never been so open, we have never been so easy for the opposition to dominate. All of these things are directly due to the decisions of the manager, far more than the players.

What about that says he is the man to take us forward?
 
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