They should start scouting the lower leagues .Get players hungry to play
The general attitude of our players
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This is spot on, and certainly inline with what we see in the field.
For some of our players, the situation we had the last 3 years is their dream, no fan, no pressure of success, they can always do just decent and earn world class salary, and post stuff on twitter.
We used to do that or get players from unfashionable clubs. We need to wind our necks in a bit. If they haven't won the CL, don't want. I know he is not great now, but we turned our noses up at Mane. Salah was a Chelsea reject and is only playing for Roma. We can do better than that apparently.
It will be the English players you can bank on that. The most overrated players.
Although we are only a few games into RR's reign, I think we are now at the stage where something has to give.
I was happy to give all players a fresh start but it's time some of them get dropped.
Maguire - he has underperformed most of the season now and in my opinion hasn't been a good captain. The thing that annoyed me as much as anything against Newcastle was when we were in the final ten minutes and needed a goal and he took so long on the ball. Really seemed to lack desire for us to push for the winner
McTominay - just a super limited player who doesn't do anywhere near enough to start in midfield for United. We are constantly being overrun in the midfield and he is a huge part of the problem.
Fred - probably has more of a case to not be dropped but similar to McTominay he is a super limited player especially on the ball. His energy somewhat makes us for his flaws but we really need more.
Rashford - been off the pace for many games now and really needs to be taken out of the team for a spell
I would love to see Rangnick bring in players like Donny, Bailly, Sancho during the next few games as these are players that should be hungry to perform. They also fit how we want to play considering Varane and Bailly would allow us to player higher up the pitch and DVB and Sancho would help us to retain the ball better.
I would also love to see some of the young players like Hannibal, Amad and Elanga get more time.
It's really about time we start to shake things up a bit and let players know that if they underperform, they risk losing their place.
I was happy to give all players a fresh start but it's time some of them get dropped.
Maguire - he has underperformed most of the season now and in my opinion hasn't been a good captain. The thing that annoyed me as much as anything against Newcastle was when we were in the final ten minutes and needed a goal and he took so long on the ball. Really seemed to lack desire for us to push for the winner
McTominay - just a super limited player who doesn't do anywhere near enough to start in midfield for United. We are constantly being overrun in the midfield and he is a huge part of the problem.
Fred - probably has more of a case to not be dropped but similar to McTominay he is a super limited player especially on the ball. His energy somewhat makes us for his flaws but we really need more.
Rashford - been off the pace for many games now and really needs to be taken out of the team for a spell
I would love to see Rangnick bring in players like Donny, Bailly, Sancho during the next few games as these are players that should be hungry to perform. They also fit how we want to play considering Varane and Bailly would allow us to player higher up the pitch and DVB and Sancho would help us to retain the ball better.
I would also love to see some of the young players like Hannibal, Amad and Elanga get more time.
It's really about time we start to shake things up a bit and let players know that if they underperform, they risk losing their place.
Many of our fans believe it too. Truth is many of our starters are average Premier league level at best, just better paid.
I'd like to see Maguire, Rashford, McTominay and Dalot dropped for Lindelof, Cavani, Matic and AWB.
Our players being the best paid in the league is insane, most have never even been in a title race.
I was listening to Talksport earlier and people were ringing in about the hassle Billy Gilmour is getting from some fans at Norwich. A Chelsea fan rang in to defend him and said he was world class, he is a kid. If everybody keeps saying that to young players, no damn wonder not many of them reach their full potential.
The biggest things for me are that our players don't look all that willing to "work" or they don't seem to have that drive to improve themselves. Our all-round play often looks careless or inconsequential. I'm all for us to try something different if it gets the players performing, even if that means shipping some of them out or upsetting a few names.
We are having a bit of a dig at Ronaldo, but goodness know what is going through his head about this side. He played in teams where improving yourself and winning trophies was the be all and end all. This lot are just happy to have a high profile (until it doesn't suit them of course).
Think too many let setbacks drag them down instead of driving them on to put it right.
There are also tons of training ground stories about Ronaldo's work ethic, how he would be the first there, last out, or the type to go well beyond. He's already proven himself over the years, so I have less of an issue with him because he's already done it. I'd love to know what he honestly thinks about the rest of the squad's work ethic, combined with natural ability. I'd imagine it's a combination of "laziness" plus players with an inflated sense of their own ability.
I remember players such as Darren Fletcher would get criticised in their earlier years, but the truth was that he puts the hours in and he improved his own personal performance. Which goes to show that effort and attitude levels can take you up that extra step, or even several. I'm a big believer in that. I completely agree with what you say about the players looking like they let setbacks drag them down. To me, that shows very weak mental strength. I'd like to know just how much work we do with that side of the game with our players. You can sense it when many of them just get onto the pitch or when they take some of their touches.
Think Maguire and Shaw are a good example of that, England losing the Euros has really affected their form. Rashford and Sancho, not sure as there was another fallout for them after and in a way you can understand them wilting a bit. However Saka was in the same boat and he has come back from it, which either says something about him or the support the club and teammates gave him.
Was thinking the other day how odd it must be for him to see how much standards have dropped between the day he left the club and now he's back.
Ha ha! This thread has become a laugh. Almost all the players were there last year too, and the year before that, and we were placed 2nd and 3rd respectively, and our performance in other competitions were not too shabby either.
Now, suddenly, because of a few unsatisfactory performances recently, these same players have acquired bad attitude, and to be pushed out wholesale?
Off topic, what is the average age of Redcafe members? 10 or 12?
Now, suddenly, because of a few unsatisfactory performances recently, these same players have acquired bad attitude, and to be pushed out wholesale?
Off topic, what is the average age of Redcafe members? 10 or 12?
Was a great situation for team and manager, constant championing of vague progress toward unspecific targets, the way they shat themselves everytime an opportunity for tangible success arrived spoke volumes.
Ha ha! This thread has become a laugh. Almost all the players were there last year too, and the year before that, and we were placed 2nd and 3rd respectively, and our performance in other competitions were not too shabby either.
Now, suddenly, because of a few unsatisfactory performances recently, these same players have acquired bad attitude, and to be pushed out wholesale?
Off topic, what is the average age of Redcafe members? 10 or 12?
The only thing I find weird is that this team seemed on a good way but since the arrival of Ronaldo all has gone to shite, but the caf can't have it being Ronaldo who cause this. I'm not even saying that he caused it out of malicious intent, but it's simply a side effect of him being here and being this mega superstar.
Of course the fact that we didn't buy quality midfielders, again, is also a big part of the problem, the team still lacks balance, but I can't shake the feeling that Ronaldo's arrival was the big disrupting event that put us in the situation we find ourselves right now.
Maybe they are thinking RR is only here 6 months we neednt worry. RR should go into the dressing room demand who is spreading the leaks. If no one owns up say to Maguire you are captain you will not play again and will train with the reserves until you grass them up. If no one owns up by next week Rashford you will suffer the same fate. Do this and stick by it and it would turn back to doing whatever the manager asked in no time. Thats the only way imo. Drastic, put noses out of joint, well thats whats needed with these snivelling embarrassing moaning worst group of players ever.
We finished second and third because the competition was struggling. Scousers lost VVD and had no crowd to play too. Chelsea had Lampard and City had ageing players. Now our players have got a professional manager that insists they do some work in training. Rumours emerging from ‘the dressing room’ that some players are not happy because they have had two sessions in a day and had to drive home in the dark. Probably bollocks from the ABU media but they are not as fit as other teams and may be too thick to take on board RR’s philosophy. It can only get better can’t it?
The squad is the highest paid in the league by a large margin, so maybe 2nd, 3rd and a few Semi-Finals isn't actually good enough. It blew the EL Final, and the moment we got 1st last season around Christmas it all fell to pieces and we finished miles behind City. They're bottlers, as soon as fans were allowed back into stadiums form dried up real quick.Ha ha! This thread has become a laugh. Almost all the players were there last year too, and the year before that, and we were placed 2nd and 3rd respectively, and our performance in other competitions were not too shabby either.
Now, suddenly, because of a few unsatisfactory performances recently, these same players have acquired bad attitude, and to be pushed out wholesale?
There are plenty of sides that have finished 2nd or 3rd and never went on to win anything because they weren't actually good enough to win it. This was the year this side was supposed to take that step-up and deliver something and they've failed spectacularly. Jose's side finished 2nd with more points than we did last year and no one said that squad was good enough and no one should be moved on.
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It wasn’t long ago everybody was saying what a great job Ole has done getting rid of all the ‘bad eggs’ and sorting the squad out.
We then added 3 class players in Varane, Ronaldo and Sancho and seemed to be on the right path to challenge after finishing second last year…..feck knows what’s happened but Ole’s been fired and this lot look like they cba even putting their boots on to play.
It’s just one big mess the club is a laughing stock.
We then added 3 class players in Varane, Ronaldo and Sancho and seemed to be on the right path to challenge after finishing second last year…..feck knows what’s happened but Ole’s been fired and this lot look like they cba even putting their boots on to play.
It’s just one big mess the club is a laughing stock.
Ha ha! This thread has become a laugh. Almost all the players were there last year too, and the year before that, and we were placed 2nd and 3rd respectively, and our performance in other competitions were not too shabby either.
Now, suddenly, because of a few unsatisfactory performances recently, these same players have acquired bad attitude, and to be pushed out wholesale?
Off topic, what is the average age of Redcafe members? 10 or 12?
These players are never anywhere near a title challenge and bottle cup trophies with regular aplomb. They have never been good enough.
We celebrate top 4 with them like it's a proper trophy because that's all we ever fight for these days, and even then we are making tough work out of it.
I dont like saying it but the moment Ole brought in Ronaldo, it changed everything. The players played like they were accomodating/relying on him, even Bruno. Not blaming Ronaldo. Regardless of everything, we have a new manager now and to expect an overnight change is silly. At least the club is trying to fix it. Wouldnt surprise me if Ralf or whoever is the next manager starts selling or benching players, even those who were core players for Ole.
These poor babies. Imagine having to work until 5pm. The horror.
Looking at some of the comments on there, they aren't getting any sympathy and rightly so. They don't live in the real world.
It's starting to get dark out there can someone go check on the players
But seriously the next time Maguire is available for questions someone in the press should ask him about it, "There are reports the squad doesnt like finishing at 5pm". Put him under some pressure so he goes back to the squad and tells them to shut up with leaks like that.
But seriously the next time Maguire is available for questions someone in the press should ask him about it, "There are reports the squad doesnt like finishing at 5pm". Put him under some pressure so he goes back to the squad and tells them to shut up with leaks like that.
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He made things worse
We need a squad overhaul akin to what Klopp did at Liverpool.
Left work in the dark? What kind of twisted football sweatshop is Ralf running here? Hideous.
This was posted last evening in this thread.
Maybe it's another one because they are scared of the dark tonight as well. Maybe training is interfering with other things they want to be doing. God help them if they were shift workers. God help them if they had to do 12 hrs shifts rather than a couple of hours training.
The poor mites. Imagine the horror of having to work till 5pm and then drive home in the 'dark' in your £250,000 supercar.
They don't live in the real world.
They don't live in the real world.
What was the angle of these leaks, to give the players sympathy? They surely cant be that stupid to realise how this would go down. Or maybe its designed to call the players out
For a team who says they do thorough background checks on a player's character, we end up signing lazy players with awful attitudes don't we?
God knows. The other leak is that the players don't like the new seating pods in the canteen as they can't get all their clique around the one table.
I hope their chauffeurs can find the way home in the dark.
Imagine crying about training till 5, when most people work 8-10 hours a day. Most of our players seem to be prima donnas who can’t take even a small bit of criticism. I agree with what some poster above said, these players would not have survived in the days of Keane and co, they’d probably go to their agent or the press moaning about it.
It’s also due to the press and fans as well. Just because Ronaldo gives a death stare to Rashford, it doesn’t mean they are now enemies or something ffs. It’s a part and parcel of football.
This season in particular, our team seems completely lost and devoid of passion. I don’t think overhyping our youngsters does them any good as well, look at Rashford from 2 years ago vs now. The guy seems to think he’s beyond pressing or tracking back these days. I really hope Greenwood stays more grounded.
It’s also due to the press and fans as well. Just because Ronaldo gives a death stare to Rashford, it doesn’t mean they are now enemies or something ffs. It’s a part and parcel of football.
This season in particular, our team seems completely lost and devoid of passion. I don’t think overhyping our youngsters does them any good as well, look at Rashford from 2 years ago vs now. The guy seems to think he’s beyond pressing or tracking back these days. I really hope Greenwood stays more grounded.
We clearly dont have winners in this squad, a huge lack of character.
But I must wonder, which of these players is actually enjoying their football?
But I must wonder, which of these players is actually enjoying their football?
Sounds like school.
Someone please make sure our precious players sleep with the nightlight on. Give them a stuffy too, or they may go pee pee. Like during our games recently.
I posted about the bolded part once long ago; you've considered and underlined how it might hit different personalities differently and put it in terms that can reach others who might not have understood otherwise. Tweet that sh!t, mate (imho)
Overpaying hits in a lot of bad ways. Woodward's weakness really hurt us just so so much in terms a) of agents and other executives taking advantage, b) those agents and executives absolutely doing everything they could to stroke his ego and keep him feeling justified and c) ultimately allowing them to basically construct a manipulative network around him, while the fanbase was all 'financial wizard! financial wizard!'.
Re the '(and likely Ole)' part; for me, one of the biggest warning signs about Ole was his 'I have no problem with the players being paid what they are getting' moment. I was like a deer frozen in headlights when I read those articles.
Absolutely (and paradoxically) one of the things to consider - a la the Ji Sung Park signing* - but also absolutely impossible under someone like Woodward.
*One of the things Park did was keep the rest of the 'more-talented' players honest in terms of workrate; he provided someone the manager could shame them with in front of everyone, AKA 'Look how hard Ji worked. If you don't match his energy, literally get the feck out, it doesn't matter how much more talented you are.' Now, crucially, this only works if the player used as a benchmark is of sufficient ability; otherwise you just foster resentment and loss of respect when making the comparison: 'The feck is this dumbass doing comparing me, a Ferrari, to a goddam oxcart?'
We almost literally have to pray the new footballing structure is aware of what Woodward did and are very conscious of how to undo it.
SAF used to build a core of players who were a bit of a dick. They were almost battlers first and footballers second. To again use the example of Park, the 'quiet Asian one' - I remember reading that he had a row and then a falling out with Hiddink when SAF came calling, as Hiddink had apparently been tasked with eventually sending Park to Chelsea (informal agreement in place? Asian/Samsung marketing thing for Abramovich?) and the Korean noped out of the deal - this is a row and a falling out with the manager who freaking put him on the map. And Hiddink ain't exactly no wilting violet.
There's clearly a bit of a I'm a Manchester United Player (tm); I'm better by default; I'm supposed to play like I'm toying with my opponent vibe in the squad.
Like people have pointed out, Ronaldo doesn't do that.
'Born winners' are weird. If there's a win at the end of it, they'll support people they absolutely loathe, they'll literally bleed for people they can't stand, AND THEN if they lose they won't blame those people but mostly themselves. This drives them like the average person doesn't understand. Bruno has it. It's an obsessive 'feck I could have done better. feck feck feck.'
So for all the people pointing out 'hey, our players didn't use to do this; what's the deal?', the above is why there was rarely any finger-pointing in the SAF teams - it's not some magical man-management (SAF was an absolute master, no doubt about that, and again, he targeted players like this) - it's just how 'born winners' are wired. It's how he got people who hated each other to dovetail on the pitch, how he handled Rooney-Ronaldo-worldcup-redcard-gate, etc.
We all know people who take advantage of that kind of mentality to advance themselves and sap morale from others; they create all sorts of negativity.
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