The F1 Thread 2012 Season

Rumor is that Ferrari have made another dud car. Shame if true, because Alonso is a fantastic driver.
 
Too soon to say that yet, McLaren were in far worse shape at this time last year and ended up second fastest. Ferrari had a better day today and could progress a lot in the final test, hard to say.

Red Bull are definitely fast though, and McLaren seem to be there or there abouts too.
 
Rams said:
The impression I get is that Red Bull are still way ahead of the rest.
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How did you get that impression? I mean I'm not going to argue that the Red Bull will probably still be the car to beat but there is every indication so far from testing that the gap is closer and with the EBD ban gone as well as more durable tyres I think we might see a more even battle out front.

Don't look at the times in testing, pointless unless you know their programmes and nobody does but the teams themselves, don't let the ITK's and journo's brainwash you, they really no nothing at this stage.
 
According to Andrew Benson, the BBC's chief F1 writer who has been number crunching throughout the tests so far: the Ferrari really is not far at all off the Red Bull and has not actually done any low-fuel soft or super-soft quali simulation laps yet anyway.
 
If they've done none of that how can he possibly make such a claim?

Journos like to make more from testing than can really be seen.
 
Benson's analysis is pretty poor, the last test always reveals the order more or less but even last year when they turned up to Melbourne the McLaren found reliability and some pace whereas Ferrari were off the pace despite an impressive pre season. From the eye test people seem to feel Red Bull, McLaren and Force India look good, Ferrari are slowly understanding their new concept too.
 
The thing is though the drivers are only going by what they had last year, they are still unsure of where they are relative to others.
 
Rams said:
The impression I get is that Red Bull are still way ahead of the rest.
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Testing tells us nothing though in terms of who is the quickest all it tells us as fans is if the car works or not but its impossible to tell who is the fastest during testing because we dont know what loads they are running or what setup they are using testing in reality tells us nothing in terms of performance, hell Heiki was top of the time sheets at the end of the second day in Jerez but you can pretty much guarantee there is a 99% chance he wont be on the podium at any race this year.
 
You can get a better idea if you look at the race distances, because you know that they'll tend to start from maximum fuel. The problem with Benson's analysis is that he takes them as absolutes and draws a conclusion from them without thinking about the other variables, primarily that it appears McLaren were refuelling after at least one of the stints.
 
never read much into pre season testing to be honest, remember Sauber dominated the tests a few seasons ago but were nowhere when the actual racing began.

can't wait for the first race this year, have Sky Sports for the footie anyway so looking forward to having a dedicated F1 channel too, apparently they are showing GP2/GP3, classic races and all sorts!
 
Benson's analysis is one to ignore largely, he can't wrap his head around basic stuff such as realising race simulations & race distances are completely different.

For example in his latest blog he stated Vettel completed a race simulation run over 2 minutes quicker than Hamilton, including passing him on track. Sounds ominous until you actually do some investigation into the stints and find out Hamilton was "pitting" for a good length of time in his garage and when he came out again his stint times remained the same indicating they were refueling him as its hardly likely the McLaren is so slow it doesn't get quicker as fuel burns off.

His number crunching also involves taking an average across the day which is about as useful as a mazipan dildo.

He's doing what all journo's do when they don't really know what they are talking about, he's making assumptions based on test times rather than getting out on the track and watching how the cars behave. Peter Windsor's writing style is incredibly annoying but he is out there watching the cars and getting feedback from engineers as is dare I say it James Allen.

The general view from proper sources is Red Bull is at this point probably still quickest but McLaren looks close as well as notable improvements in the Mercedes and Force India, Merc is interesting too as they have less time on track with their new car so they should improve as they understand it more. Ferrari is flying under the radar a bit but I would imagine they aren't as far off as people like to think.
 
Anyone seen Massa's interview from yesterday? He's starting to glow about the car and saying they are now going in the right direction and know what to do with it, apparently.
 
There's some better analysis in the blog replies it seems, Benson basing his on the fact that the McLaren's weren't refuelling at the stops...others say they were

I think Red Bull will be quickest, with McLaren pretty close...they clearly have a decent starting point this year compared with last
 
EdWeatherall said:
There's some better analysis in the blog replies it seems, Benson basing his on the fact that the McLaren's weren't refuelling at the stops...others say they were

I think Red Bull will be quickest, with McLaren pretty close...they clearly have a decent starting point this year compared with last
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They were definately re-fueling because how else would you explain the times staying in the same range? Once the fuel burns off the car goes quicker, simple fact and the McLaren wasn't.

Driver comments also don't mean much at this point, they won't openly come out and slate the teams whilst they are trying to develop it.
 
That's what I mean, that was the whole thing he based his McLaren analysis on, how could he have it so wrong
 
Brundle is one of the best, he is also critical of Schumacher quite often hence marchi doesn't really like him.
 
So word around the paddock this morning is that Ferrari have completely fecked up this car and are well behind where they wanted to be at the end of pre season testing Luca Colajanni (head of communications) himself has said, "it is clear we are behind schedule and we cannot be happy".

Last day of testing in Barcelona saw Hamilton in a pretty reliable Mclaren bang in 115 laps, red bull limited to 23 after vettel broke the front wing and then the gearbox failed so it means they havent a clue really how effective the new exhaust system they have will be, will be an interesting opener at australia this year.
 
They do seem like they are having problems but who knows its pre-season testing. If Ferrari do have problems as Mclaren showed last year after a terrible testing they can turn it around in 13 days.

Yeah it will Interesting to see how the Red Bull exhaust goes. Yesterday many journolist on twitter were tweeting pics of RB obsession with hiding the exhaust with umbrellas.
 
Ferrari will still be a top four team I expect, they have the experience and stuff to turn it around.

Red Bull are probably still team to beat, but hopefully McLaren are much, much closer this year.

Mercedes and Lotus could both be spanners in the works of the top two also, especially with Schumacher and Raikonen...give either of them a great car...

Williams should do better this year too, much better engine in Renault, hopefully Force India's car is good as be good to see how much potential Di Resta has
 
Leg-End said:
Brundle is one of the best, he is also critical of Schumacher quite often hence marchi doesn't really like him.
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Brundle neither catches the viewers attention nor adds any excitement to the broadcasts. There is a reason why ITV had Allen and Walker as the colour commentators and why Martin should be going back to his driver input role in the new sky team. The guys that do the Moto GP calling are far and away the best commentators in motorracing. Like Walker and Allen, you can actually hear excitement and emotion in their calls.
 
marchi-91 said:
Brundle neither catches the viewers attention nor adds any excitement to the broadcasts. There is a reason why ITV had Allen and Walker as the colour commentators and why Martin should be going back to his driver input role in the new sky team. The guys that do the Moto GP calling are far and away the best commentators in motorracing. Like Walker and Allen, you can actually hear excitement and emotion in their calls.
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I agree that Brundle is much better suited to the co-commentator role but he does add excitement and his input and dry sense of humour make him one of the best around. F1 without Brundle would be a completely different viewing experience for me, I can't name the amount of times he has made the dullest of races worth watching, including USA 2005.

It's each to their own really.
 
Ferrari need to offer Ross Brawn an entire island in exchange for him coming back. Even then he probably wouldn't accept.

Montizemello must feel like a fool now. Apparently after his sabbatical Brawn would've agreed to go back only if he was given a higher responsibility and role. He wanted a new challenge. No idea why he wasn't offered it.
 
Ferrari wanted to become mainly Italian staffed again but it just didn't work out well for them, therefore they missed out on Brawn again and now have a McLaren cast off. Ok cast off is a bit harsh.

I think over the season they will develop well but I think given the reports on them this winter they might be too far back by the time they get there.
 
Watch Alonso still wring its neck to get it near the first few podiums though. If they can get some respectable results in the first few races anything's possible once the car's had some more track time. Think it's clear Red Bull and McLaren are the favourites though, and rightly so.
 
We all did it last season then forgot about it, might as well do it again.
 
Okay, have created a RedCafe league:
League no: 686

PM for the password - Leg-End have done to you already, feel free to pass it on yourself.
 
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