Hill was an idiot, he could've waited a bit and then overtake Schumacher. The German got to the corner first. Everything else is english bitterness.
The F1 Thread 2009 Season
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Yeh wait for Schumacher to recover from his mistake and drive away from him again. Great advice 
We're talking split seconds. Hill saw an opportunity and went for it. He didn't know whether Schumacher had made a small mistake and was fine, or if he was stricken and out of the race. But a racer doesn't piss about waiting to find out
He was making the pass and the German drove into him intentionally, as he repeated again later in his career. Never mind all the other ways he managed to cheat and generally bring the sports rules into disrepute too
We're talking split seconds. Hill saw an opportunity and went for it. He didn't know whether Schumacher had made a small mistake and was fine, or if he was stricken and out of the race. But a racer doesn't piss about waiting to find out
He was making the pass and the German drove into him intentionally, as he repeated again later in his career. Never mind all the other ways he managed to cheat and generally bring the sports rules into disrepute too
I can't wait for the return of the man who ruined the German anthem, I can never listen to it without expecting the Italian one to pop in
I'm getting very excited, shame a month left
I'm getting very excited, shame a month left
I can't wait for the return of the man who ruined the German anthem, I can never listen to it without expecting the Italian one to pop in
I'm getting very excited, shame a month left
Monza is going to be fecking epic!
I can't wait for the return of the man who ruined the German anthem, I can never listen to it without expecting the Italian one to pop in
I'm getting very excited, shame a month left
I was at that race
Everyone was jubilant while I was none plussed by the race result
One Schumi announcement later I'm the only man at the circuit with a smile on their face
This.
In both 2007 and 2008 the Ferrari and the McLaren were fairly equally matched in the 'best car' stakes, at some tracks the Ferrari was better and at others the Macca was better. The Ferrari was in no way 'clearly superior'.
Ross Brawn does not design cars. This is what is so laughable at this argument. Rory Bryne was the designer of the Ferrari's race winning cars, not Ross Brawn.
Whats so laughable. I'm not saying it was all Ross but he played his part.
As I said I can't wait to see Schumi I was a fan growing up. Its when people say it was all Schumacher not the car but same people say Hamilton wins is all car diver is average.
English bitter
We didn't lose two world wars and one world cup!
to be fair we did the lose the world cup, before pickles the border collie found it again!
I don't anyone is claiming the Ferrari was. But someone is claiming the McClaren was. In fact its an oft used stick to knock Hamilton's first season achievements. Despite the fact as you say, was pretty equally matched
Ah, apologies mate I misunderstood your point.
Hamilton's first season achievements were brilliant, there is no doubting that, but some of his fans (not to mention the press) do go somewhat overboard in their commentary of it. He didn't have a car vastly superior to the Ferrari, but both the F2007 and the MP4-22 were pretty well ahead of everyone else.
Just out of curiosity, are you of the belief that 2007's WDC was 'lost by Hamilton' or 'won by Raikkonen'? (If you get what I mean!)
It was thrown away, but I think McClaren take as much responsibility as Hamilton. China was a farce, and Hamilton should never have been left out on bald tyres. He still ultimately made the mistake. Think you have to say fair play Raikkonen he still had to win the final two races to become champion, so I think it's a bit too simplistic to say it was won or lost by either. What you have to say is that for a rookie to be in that position, no matter how good his car was, is incredible
I agree that he had a fantastic season and his achievements have been brilliant, I'm in no way a fan of his but you'd have to be pretty retarded to deny his qualities.
It bugs the crap out of me though when people say Raikkonen only won the WDC in '07 because Hamilton threw it away. The Championship is a full season long and consisted of 17 equally rated events, Kimi had troubles early in the season and Hamilton had his issues at the end. Raikkonen's insanely consistant season (only off the podium 3 times when the car got him to the end of the race) is often overlooked by people over simplifying things by saying that Lewis/McLaren threw it away.
It bugs the crap out of me though when people say Raikkonen only won the WDC in '07 because Hamilton threw it away. The Championship is a full season long and consisted of 17 equally rated events, Kimi had troubles early in the season and Hamilton had his issues at the end. Raikkonen's insanely consistant season (only off the podium 3 times when the car got him to the end of the race) is often overlooked by people over simplifying things by saying that Lewis/McLaren threw it away.
If Hamilton was a Rookie then, then Michael should be considered a rookie at Valencia. Thats how stupid that term is. Hamilton had over 19 years experience in racing before f1, he was in no way a rookie and the term is built up as an excuse/compliment to any sportsperson.
McLaren did have a better car, but not by much. McLaren had the pace over Ferrari at the end of the season Brad, but due to mistakes and mis-management the Ferrari was made to look faster then it was compared to the McLaren
Last year I have no doubt in claiming the Ferrari was the faster car. Its just they stuffed around and lost the title through mistakes.
Yes but he'd never raced a F1 car competitively had he!I play Sunday league footy but if I got a start for United in a professional league game it'd still be my debut rookie season!
Absolutely bonkers mate. Rubberman-esque
I play Sunday league footy but if I got a start for United in a professional league game it'd still be my debut rookie season!
Absolutely bonkers mate. Rubberman-esque
Hamilton has been a professional racing driver since the age of 16 - some would say he was 8 when he became a professional.
Big difference
Ok a difference between my analogy, but you don't think F1 drivers have grown up in that environment?! Schumacher was racing Karts before his teens and worked his way up through the formula's, just like the majority do
If your an F1 driver racing in their first season, you're still a rookie at that level. And what a step up it is, most don't last very long. For Marchi to say Schumacher might as well be considered one on his comeback is just utterly ridiculous and exposes his level of debate in these threads. He's not got a clue
Brad, Michael has been out of competitive open wheel racing for 3 years. Far longer then any "rookie" has from the step up. I'm not calling him a "rookie" as he's been there done that, but its a different ball game and you can't deny that.
Hamilton did have a very good first season, but he was far from a rookie and those that don't stay in f1, are usually not there on merit, rather through large sums of money. Just look at Ide or Alex Yoong for example.
Hamilton did have a very good first season, but he was far from a rookie and those that don't stay in f1, are usually not there on merit, rather through large sums of money. Just look at Ide or Alex Yoong for example.
He's the most successful driver in F1 history and he's been acting as a test driver for Ferrari since!
You think him coming back into F1 is a bigger step up than someone who's never raced an F1 car competitively in their lives?
Retarded argument. Beyond credibility. Must be on a WUM
You think him coming back into F1 is a bigger step up than someone who's never raced an F1 car competitively in their lives?
Retarded argument. Beyond credibility. Must be on a WUM
The cars have changed alot in three years Brad. For MS to suddenly turn up and think he can compete on a level playing field is silly. If you take what MS has done before out of the equation - you have to say he would be approaching the European GP like a rookie. However if MS is the best F1 driver ever to grace a grid - he surely is no Rookie.
Villeneuve also left F1 in 2006 and has had about as much time in an f1 car as MS. Would he be held in be a rookie? former world champ as well.
Villeneuve also left F1 in 2006 and has had about as much time in an f1 car as MS. Would he be held in be a rookie? former world champ as well.
If you take what he did before out of the equation?
Why on earth would you do that?
He's acted as a test driver for Ferrari since his retirement. He'll be setting competitive times don't worry about that. To equate him to a rookie is ludicrous
And no Villeneuve wouldn't be a rookie. The small matter of 11 seasons in F1 kind of get in the way there
Why on earth would you do that?
He's acted as a test driver for Ferrari since his retirement. He'll be setting competitive times don't worry about that. To equate him to a rookie is ludicrous
And no Villeneuve wouldn't be a rookie. The small matter of 11 seasons in F1 kind of get in the way there
How come when Hamilton is involved in an argument the rules change. So Hamilton wasn't a rookie in 2007? Most F1 drivers have been involved in motorsport since they were about 7-8 years old, there exceptions ofcourse, but how does it make Hamilton any less of a rookie than any other driver on the grid? He was brought up the right way and had help but I think its safe to say that formula worked now that he is the youngest world champion ever right?
Schumachers back, enjoy it, he will be on the pace and it will be interesting. Job done.
Schumachers back, enjoy it, he will be on the pace and it will be interesting. Job done.
If you take what he did before out of the equation?
Why on earth would you do that?
He's acted as a test driver for Ferrari since his retirement. He'll be setting competitive times don't worry about that. To equate him to a rookie is ludicrous
And no Villeneuve wouldn't be a rookie. The small matter of 11 seasons in F1 kind of get in the way there
I don't think he has driven the F60. His role as a testdriver has been very limited.
I wouldn't classify him as a rookie though.
edit: Schumacher last tested in April last year, according to this website: http://www.thelocal.de/sport/20090729-20907.html
Either way, testing is not racing. He won't be as good as when he left Formula 1, I think we can all agree on that but I'm quite sure he will not be more than half a second slower than Raikkonen at the end of the weekend.
What me 'and I hope Baz' is trying to say, is the concept of a rookie f1 driver, is a load of tosh. They are professional racing drivers from far earlier ages. All it is, is a step up.
Sorry but someone with Schumachers ability and the fact that he's still been testing the car since his retirement won't have any problems stepping up & being competitive in the first weekend. The only issue with him is his fitness & thats it.
As for Hamilton not being a rookie, you're talking out of your arse. The step up from GP2 to F1 is immense. Nelson Piquet is a prime example of how difficult the step up is.
Yeah because every F1 driver since 1950 was born aged 25 and raced in F1 when they just got out of nappies. Bollocks.
That is nonsense - you invented that
None of those ex champs admits that
I've seen interviews with other drivers and they all say (like in your later post) that Hill's mistake was not waiting, being impatient, simply not waiting for the better opportunity to pass Schumacher which he would easily have done had he been thinking straight. He must have known Schumacher would have been looking for the first decent opportunity to put him out of the race by any means possible given the points situation - stupid from Hill imo
I seem to recall Schumacher pre race even marking this could happen - fskes
However to take this incident specifically - the racing line be fkd. After hitting the wall first time Schumacher comes out of it left giving Hill the opportunity to go inside and he in fact has that line for a second - Schumacher realises that and suddenly, and it IS sudden, pulls his car sharply right across Hill knowing full well, if there's contact, he'll put them both out of the race
About the clearest example of systematic, deliberate, cheating you are ever likely to see - be interesting to see how how post race officials would deal with it now - he'd get caned, stripped of points and banned for a race or two
Here's the post race interview with Jackie Stewart http://www.motorchili.com/video/1624/Jackie-Stewart-Interviews-Michael-Schumacher-Adelaide-1994
- watch Schumacher squirming in his seat as he claims"came out of turn 4 and steering was not right" but "it was okay steering left but not right"
"when I went into turn 4 the car just pulled over and Damon was there as well" ....mmm
He can hardly contain the smile on his face - got to give it to him, under that questioning, that spotlight, to come up with that bullshit takes some balls after doing what he'd just done
There's one thing you're wrong about and that is how we view Schumacher in the UK. In all sports, from diving cvnts in football, to cheating any way in any sport -we hate it - its a British trait - winning by any means possible even illegally is not in our make up. For us it devalues the 'win'. Even if one of our own does wih by cheating they are never forgiven (Dwayne Chambers) - there's always a stain on their character.
So in respect of Schumacher even though we can admit he IS a great driver he is despicably the biggest serial cheating cvnt in any sport I have ever witnessed - it is serial with him - it's not about 'will to win' and 'desire' and all that bollocks it's simply "If I can't win then no-one else will either - nomatter what I have to do" illegal or otherwise - he's typically that little pratt in the playground who if he can't have any sweets wants to make sure nobody else has them as well
His list of cheating long and regularand although acklowledging his brilliance as a driver I cannot ever and will not ever ( Maradona hand of God etc ) accept him as anything other than a cheating sad cvnt - his title wins are forever tarnished
And as you quoted him here's Jackie again delivering his verdict on Schumacher after his retirement
http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/audio/2006/oct/23/jackie.stewart.on.michael.schumacher
- "He's been a little bit of a serial 'player' ..and I can think of, well, certainly three blatant cases where 'it' should never have occurred and it really has left a black mark over his career"
Looks like Jackie Stewart doe'snt agree with you
In respect of Hill, most people consider he won two titles really and not the one and although I acknowledge he's not in Schumacher's class it's the jusifiable and correct view to make and whether you believe it or not had Damon Hill been Spanish French or even another German I'd feel exactly the same way and so would most people that love the sport and want to see it played out in the right spirit
Yeh wait for Schumacher to recover from his mistake and drive away from him again. Great advice
We're talking split seconds. Hill saw an opportunity and went for it. He didn't know whether Schumacher had made a small mistake and was fine, or if he was stricken and out of the race. But a racer doesn't piss about waiting to find out
He was making the pass and the German drove into him intentionally, as he repeated again later in his career. Never mind all the other ways he managed to cheat and generally bring the sports rules into disrepute too
Fk me I must be living in some other dimension
%110 agreement with that .....spot on
The Schumacher biography, written by James Allen, gives a great insight into the character behind the mask of the racing driver. I can recommend it to anyone who sees Schumacher as just a cheater.
If you take what he did before out of the equation?
Why on earth would you do that?
He's acted as a test driver for Ferrari since his retirement. He'll be setting competitive times don't worry about that. To equate him to a rookie is ludicrous
And no Villeneuve wouldn't be a rookie. The small matter of 11 seasons in F1 kind of get in the way there
Which is why I said he is no rookie.
But I agree that Hamilton could not be considered a Rookie last season when he has been groomed into a F1 role by Ron Dennis since he was 8.
Big difference between him and someone like Vettel
Who was financed by Red Bull at an early age.
I'm sure its a great read but I know what I've seen with my eyes over the last 20 years and I stand by every word I've said about him
Fk me I must be living in some other dimension
%110 agreement with that .....spot on
I know, it's unnerving agreeing with you
I don't like it
Yeah that's your choice and I respect that. Things aren't always that black and white though but everyone has his own opinion and I've got no problem with that.
That is nonsense - you invented that
None of those ex champs admits that
I've seen interviews with other drivers and they all say (like in your later post) that Hill's mistake was not waiting, being impatient, simply not waiting for the better opportunity to pass Schumacher which he would easily have done had he been thinking straight. He must have known Schumacher would have been looking for the first decent opportunity to put him out of the race by any means possible given the points situation - stupid from Hill imo
I seem to recall Schumacher pre race even marking this could happen - fskes
However to take this incident specifically - the racing line be fkd. After hitting the wall first time Schumacher comes out of it left giving Hill the opportunity to go inside and he in fact has that line for a second - Schumacher realises that and suddenly, and it IS sudden, pulls his car sharply right across Hill knowing full well, if there's contact, he'll put them both out of the race
About the clearest example of systematic, deliberate, cheating you are ever likely to see - be interesting to see how how post race officials would deal with it now - he'd get caned, stripped of points and banned for a race or two
Here's the post race interview with Jackie Stewart http://www.motorchili.com/video/1624/Jackie-Stewart-Interviews-Michael-Schumacher-Adelaide-1994
- watch Schumacher squirming in his seat as he claims"came out of turn 4 and steering was not right" but "it was okay steering left but not right"
"when I went into turn 4 the car just pulled over and Damon was there as well" ....mmm
He can hardly contain the smile on his face - got to give it to him, under that questioning, that spotlight, to come up with that bullshit takes some balls after doing what he'd just done
There's one thing you're wrong about and that is how we view Schumacher in the UK. In all sports, from diving cvnts in football, to cheating any way in any sport -we hate it - its a British trait - winning by any means possible even illegally is not in our make up. For us it devalues the 'win'. Even if one of our own does wih by cheating they are never forgiven (Dwayne Chambers) - there's always a stain on their character.
So in respect of Schumacher even though we can admit he IS a great driver he is despicably the biggest serial cheating cvnt in any sport I have ever witnessed - it is serial with him - it's not about 'will to win' and 'desire' and all that bollocks it's simply "If I can't win then no-one else will either - nomatter what I have to do" illegal or otherwise - he's typically that little pratt in the playground who if he can't have any sweets wants to make sure nobody else has them as well
His list of cheating long and regularand although acklowledging his brilliance as a driver I cannot ever and will not ever ( Maradona hand of God etc ) accept him as anything other than a cheating sad cvnt - his title wins are forever tarnished
And as you quoted him here's Jackie again delivering his verdict on Schumacher after his retirement
http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/audio/2006/oct/23/jackie.stewart.on.michael.schumacher
- "He's been a little bit of a serial 'player' ..and I can think of, well, certainly three blatant cases where 'it' should never have occurred and it really has left a black mark over his career"
Looks like Jackie Stewart doe'snt agree with you
In respect of Hill, most people consider he won two titles really and not the one and although I acknowledge he's not in Schumacher's class it's the jusifiable and correct view to make and whether you believe it or not had Damon Hill been Spanish French or even another German I'd feel exactly the same way and so would most people that love the sport and want to see it played out in the right spirit
So do you think the fact that Pires/ Bergkamp dived and elbowed constantly devalues their brilliance as players or takes the shine off Arsenal's trophy haul while they were at the club?
I certainly don't condone it but no one dive by Pires was ever responsible for placing a title in our hands - Cant see that Bergkamp was a diver - very rare
Many of Schumacher's cheats were very effective in world title placements and if they were not they were meant to often 'take out' other drivers
I hate diving in football but Schumacher's exploits are on another planet mate