The F1 Thread 2008 Season

It was such a great final few laps too. Before Kimi went off it was a great little battle between the two of them.

But it was worth absolutely nothing when the winner is stripped of his victory.
 
Highlights are on ITV and the race just ended.

I assume they will talk all about the decision made and reaction to it.
 
Nope just talking about the 'mood in the camp' and 'looking forward to Monza'.

Ron did briefly say its nothing new to us by now... ITV presenter was indirectly giving it the FIA bias and Hamilton having to do it the hard way though.

Ah well, another chapter in the long list of controversy in F1.
 
Totally gutted by the fecking farcical decision by the stewards. Why is it that Lewis and McClaren have been at the receiving end of all their decisions for years now ? This toally stinks.

Spoilt what was undoubtedly the best race in F1 for a long time. Gutted !!
 
I haven't watched a race for years and for some reason I watched the last few laps of this one.

Now I remember why i don't bother any more. Hamilton deducted 15 seconds for not being in a Ferrari.
 
Former Belgian F1 test driver Bas Leinders said in the newspaper this morning that:

a) Hamilton should have never attempted an overtaking manoeuvre from the outside. There is little chance of such attempt to succeed.

b) He should have waited another turn before attacking Raikkonen again. The advantage the stewards were talking about is Hamilton getting in the slipstream of Raikkonen. He would have never gotten there if he hadn't cut the corner.
 
he was ahead of raikenen when he was forced off the track tho

it is a total farce and i hopefully the apeal will be accepted
 
CrazyBelgian said:
Former Belgian F1 test driver Bas Leinders said in the newspaper this morning that:

a) Hamilton should have never attempted an overtaking manoeuvre from the outside. There is little chance of such attempt to succeed.

b) He should have waited another turn before attacking Raikkonen again. The advantage the stewards were talking about is Hamilton getting in the slipstream of Raikkonen. He would have never gotten there if he hadn't cut the corner.
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Formula 1 believe or not is about overtaken even though it is few and far between these days Lewis is a breath of fresh air in that respect. He is one of the few drivers that has overtaken on the outside.He saw a opportunity he is a racer went for it had his nose in front but was then forced wide with Kimi battling to hold on to his Ferrari. Maybe there's a reason for this test driver for not making it in the sport, while Lewis has quickly established himself has a top racer and fighter in a sport that was in desperate need of someone like him.
 
SAred said:
Formula 1 believe or not is about overtaken even though it is few and far between these days Lewis is a breath of fresh air in that respect. He is one of the few drivers that has overtaken on the outside.He saw a opportunity he is a racer went for it had his nose in front but was then forced wide with Kimi battling to hold on to his Ferrari. Maybe there's a reason for this test driver for not making it in the sport, while Lewis has quickly established himself has a top racer and fighter in a sport that was in desperate need of someone like him.
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He was never going to get first out of that corner, it's as simple as that. Just look at the video, there is simply no room for Hamilton to get in the corner without touching Raikkonen. Yeah he is in front just before the corner but the turn in from Hamilton's position was almost impossible. And we can't expect Raikkonen to move over like he is being doubled can we? This was a battle for the championship and Raikkonen had the right to defend his position as he was on the racing line.

I agree that it is good to see someone attempting such things but a more experienced driver would have waited for a better opportunity.

Hopefully next year, with the new rules, such things are possible and we get a lot of this great racing in the next seasons.

All of this would have never happend if F1 had kept the good old gravel traps instead of these tarmac run off areas.

(the reason leinders didn't get into F1 is the money btw, Belgian companies don't want to invest in Formula 1.)
 
The best case scenario would be for Kimi and Massa to crash into each other, and Lewis to scream down his radio "hahaha f**k you FIA, f**k you" and then Lewis reverses the car over the finishing line to finish 1st.
 
I agree with the general consensus that it was a terrible decision.For the hope of the sport i hope it is revoked.

I hadn't seen the race since i was away the weekend but managed to catch a youtube clip of it this morning.

Alonso was punished for the exact same thing in Suzuka 2005

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vdy6qzI2-A4

I couldn't quite agree with it then either....the only advantage i could quite see from both clips was that the advantage was in being ahead on the straight and barely letting someone back through it was very easy to get into the slipstream again for the next corner rather than if they took the previous corner properly.

Very harsh decision though
 
Stemmy said:
I agree with the general consensus that it was a terrible decision.For the hope of the sport i hope it is revoked.

I hadn't seen the race since i was away the weekend but managed to catch a youtube clip of it this morning.

Alonso was punished for the exact same thing in Suzuka 2005

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vdy6qzI2-A4

I couldn't quite agree with it then either....the only advantage i could quite see from both clips was that the advantage was in being ahead on the straight and barely letting someone back through it was very easy to get into the slipstream again for the next corner rather than if they took the previous corner properly.

Very harsh decision though
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Kimi slowed down, and I must say it was on purpose, if you compare the speed of Kimi and Lewis then there was no need for Kimi to slow down.
 
TheRedFlag said:
Kimi slowed down, and I must say it was on purpose, if you compare the speed of Kimi and Lewis then there was no need for Kimi to slow down.
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Eh?

When did Kimi slow down? for the corner? do you have telemetry to prove that?

And of course Lewis would have a faster speed since he got a slipstream on Raikkonen.

Those 2 instances are allmost exactly the same
 
Stemmy said:
Eh?

When did Kimi slow down? for the corner? do you have telemetry to prove that?

And of course Lewis would have a faster speed since he got a slipstream on Raikkonen.

Those 2 instances are allmost exactly the same
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Kimi slowed down when Hamilton overtook him properly, there was no need for him to do it. Unless Kimi has suddenly turned into a shit scared driver.
 
TheRedFlag said:
Kimi slowed down when Hamilton overtook him properly, there was no need for him to do it. Unless Kimi has suddenly turned into a shit scared driver.
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From what i heard Kimi was shit slow even before Hamilton overtook him

Whats your point?
 
TheRedFlag said:
That its Kimi's fault. Which looking at the video it quite clearly is.
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And your quite clearly being silly if you think that was Kimi's fault

I can hardly see how struggling to get any speed from his car results in it being Kimi's fault for what happened to Hamilton
 
CrazyBelgian said:
He was never going to get first out of that corner, it's as simple as that. Just look at the video, there is simply no room for Hamilton to get in the corner without touching Raikkonen. Yeah he is in front just before the corner but the turn in from Hamilton's position was almost impossible. And we can't expect Raikkonen to move over like he is being doubled can we? This was a battle for the championship and Raikkonen had the right to defend his position as he was on the racing line.

I agree that it is good to see someone attempting such things but a more experienced driver would have waited for a better opportunity.

Hopefully next year, with the new rules, such things are possible and we get a lot of this great racing in the next seasons.

All of this would have never happend if F1 had kept the good old gravel traps instead of these tarmac run off areas.

(the reason leinders didn't get into F1 is the money btw, Belgian companies don't want to invest in Formula 1.)
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We can debate until were blue in the face but the one fact that stands out more is that Lewis was clearly quicker he tried a overtaken attempt which was never going to be easier but seeing that he clearly had the quicker car was on. Kimi slid forcing Lewis to take evasive action to avoid a accident , he went across the cincane , slowed down let he repast and then took him at the next corner. A good maybe aggressive move but fair Ala Schumacher. In a sport were these two were equally matched Lewis saw a opportunity and took it - that's racing and FIA have made a mockery of the outcome. On one hand they want to have more overtaken to keep the interest in the sport which when they get from Lewis he gets penalised.

You maybe right in saying that this would never of happened if there was gravel there or has Kimi said there was a wall there but there wasn't so Lewis the young charger has he is took a chance. Took evasive action to save the day let Kimi past has per the rules and retook him. The decision that was taken after the race surly even you must agree was harsh. And its not only coming from me a Mclaren fan but form many Ferrari supporters who want to see races won and lost on the track not in some bloody court room.
 
SAred said:
We can debate until were blue in the face but the one fact that stands out more is that Lewis was clearly quicker he tried a overtaken attempt which was never going to be easier but seeing that he clearly had the quicker car was on. Kimi slid forcing Lewis to take evasive action to avoid a accident , he went across the cincane , slowed down let he repast and then took him at the next corner. A good maybe aggressive move but fair Ala Schumacher. In a sport were these two were equally matched Lewis saw a opportunity and took it - that's racing and FIA have made a mockery of the outcome. On one hand they want to have more overtaken to keep the interest in the sport which when they get from Lewis he gets penalised.

You maybe right in saying that this would never of happened if there was gravel there or has Kimi said there was a wall there but there wasn't so Lewis the young charger has he is took a chance. Took evasive action to save the day let Kimi past has per the rules and retook him. The decision that was taken after the race surly even you must agree was harsh. And its not only coming from me a Mclaren fan but form many Ferrari supporters who want to see races won and lost on the track not in some bloody court room.
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Ofcourse it's a harsh decision and I agree completly that these kind of decisions may cost F1 a lot of fans in the future. Everyone is tired of those same old controversies and result changes after the race.

I'm glad we have someone like Hamilton now who takes the risks of overtaking when he thinks he has a chance. I watched him in GP2 too and I enjoyed every minute of his aggresive driving. But he could have done it in a different way yesterday.

He said himself just a couple of days ago that he has matured since last year and is focussing on the championship rather than on race wins... well if he had done that yesterday he would have waited a little bit longer before attempting to overtake Raikkonen.
 
To be fair to him, he was so much faster than Raikkonen once the rain started, that waiting behind him for 2 corners would have seemed farcical.
 
TheRedFlag said:
Kimi slowed down, and I must say it was on purpose, if you compare the speed of Kimi and Lewis then there was no need for Kimi to slow down.
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These weren't normal race conditions given the weather change. Hamilton took about 3 seconds out of Raikkonen within about half a lap prior to the incident. He's been forced off the track by his opponent in a move that bordered on unfairness - your allowed to defend your position and stick to the racing line, but not to push them off the track, so say the regulations (but who bothers about them anymore eh) - he's come back on, slowed to let the Ferrari back past, and then pushed on again. He doesn't overtake him until braking on the next corner, after a long straight. It's a total nonsense, by what critieria is it being decided whether someone has taken an advantage or not? As always, its rule making on the hoof in F1

And its beyond question now the cosy relationship Ferrari have with the FIA. The stewards don't penalise Hamilton, and nobody complains, I doubt even Ferrari would have much to say about it. Last race Massa is clearly guilty of dangerous driving in the pitlane, what he did is accounted for in the FIA sporting regulations punishable by a minimum penalty of an additional 10 second post race sanction, and he gets away with it. Despite a GP2 driver that same race weekend being punished by the same regulators, for the same offence!!! It's actually beyond a joke
 
ZIDANE said:
The Epic Battle - Spa 08

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Watch this again, and tell me if you think hamilton didn't gain an advantage?

He did, he was right in his slipstream straight after and offcourse that would obviously go quicker and he just gave two feet away as he starts to accelarate again, the rule is he has to slot in behind him but hamilton decides to accelarate and get kimi's slip stream and slides past him.

He would have probably overtook him later in the lap anyway but that was a split second decision for hamilton and he chose the wrong one.

END OF STORY.
 
Hamilton was on the outside, but passed him on the inside. He didn't magically go through him, so he must have been behind him at some stage, right?
 
Maroon Lucifer said:
Hamilton was on the outside, but passed him on the inside. He didn't magically go through him, so he must have been behind him at some stage, right?
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Seemingly its not enough just to let your fellow driver back in front of you anymore, you have to sit in the naughty corner for 5 minutes before you're allowed to race again
 
Red Pavan said:
Watch this again, and tell me if you think hamilton didn't gain an advantage?

He did, he was right in his slipstream straight after and offcourse that would obviously go quicker and he just gave two feet away as he starts to accelarate again, the rule is he has to slot in behind him but hamilton decides to accelarate and get kimi's slip stream and slides past him.

He would have probably overtook him later in the lap anyway but that was a split second decision for hamilton and he chose the wrong one.

END OF STORY.
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Hamilton takes him on the straight then Kimi edges in front on the turn, just by a third of a car (almost neck and neck). Hamilton is edged off the track where he gains the advantage and the lead. He then let's Kimi pass the full cars length in front of him - Hamilton is now further behind than when they last met at the corner.

If anything Kimi gained a greater distance over Hamilton when he was let through. Then Kimi tries to come across to block Hamilton who outbreaks him and cuts up the right hand side.

Hamilton gained an advantage by outdriving a red car and shall thus recieve a penalty:nono:
 
you deluded cnuts dont you realize that fia = ferrari

i stopped watching F1 some years ago because its corrupt as feck....everytime mclaren have the upper hand the fia find some thing or the other to punish them because ferrari has the god given right to win everything each year.
 
VidaRed said:
you deluded cnuts dont you realize that fia = ferrari
i stopped watching F1 some years ago because its corrupt as feck....everytime mclaren have the upper hand the fia find some thing or the other to punish them because ferrari has the god given right to win everything each year.
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If that is true, then how did Fernando Alonso two world Championships? :rolleyes:
 
because renault were competing with mclaren and not ferrari :p
 
VidaRed said:
because renault were competing with mclaren and not ferrari :p
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McLaren aren't all that innocent as they are made out to be you know. Not remember the last saga in F1 - the spy row - and Ron Dennis repeatedly lying through his teeth about it. They even got caught after they had said they had got rid of any Ferrari data.

Race rules were even changed whilst Schumi was dominating - the newer points system was brought in which helped the second place man stay in tough with the first place man (schumi) throughout the championship. ( A tighter championship - better viewing figures )

Anyway not that I'm arguing the case for Ferrari here there have been a fair few decisions that seem to have gone their way more than they should have. Just saying that F1 is corrupt as a whole rather than being specifically favoured to Ferrari.
 
its no secret that every big team spies on each other...mclaren were winning and ferrari went crying to the fia for help and it was help they got.

didnt renault get caught with mclaren data some time after the spy scandal and nothing happened to them.
 
I cant believe people are backing the decision. Hamilton gave him back the place, then carried on overtaking him.
Ive heard about 4 top former drivers or directors of motorsport companies saying how bad the descision was.
 
Pretty strong support for Hamilton:

Triple world champion Niki Lauda has described the stewards' decision as "the worst judgement in F1 history".

"It is the most perverted judgment I have ever seen," said the Austrian, who won the title for both Ferrari and McLaren.

"It's absolutely unacceptable when three functionaries (the stewards) influence the championship like this."
 
VidaRed said:
its no secret that every big team spies on each other...mclaren were winning and ferrari went crying to the fia for help and it was help they got.

didnt renault get caught with mclaren data some time after the spy scandal and nothing happened to them.
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Nah, Mclaren got the data from Stepney, who at the time was still working for Ferrari.

Renault got the data from an ex-Mclaren employe who took it with him when he went to work for Renault.

Anyway it's a real shame such a great race has been tainted by another controversy. I mean those last laps were some of the best moments I have seen in Formula 1 in a long time.
 
Instant Karma said:
The rules are clear - if a driver shortcuts a chicane and gains an advantage, he should let the driver he overtook pass him completely to restore status quo before trying to overtake again. Hamilton didnt allow Kimi to 'pass', just allowed him to pull alongside.

The rules are black and white. The stewards in most countries are from their local racing associations and have no reason to show bias. They arent Italian or from Ferrari. They have complete autonomy to take decisions. Even the FIA doesnt intervene and only reviews the decision if there is an appeal. Any talk of bias towards Ferrari is retarded.
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IK, he didn't gain an advantage. Going into the chicane he was at least level. At one point he was ahead. By cutting the chicane he then allowed Raikonnen to move ahead. Raikonnen was 6kph faster than Hamilton. Raikonnen overtoook on Hamilton's right. He then overtook by a full car length.

Hamilton, a full car length behind then swings the car to overtake Kimi on the right. What are you talking about slipstream - where? I've seen this many times now and Hamilton must have been in the slipstream for 0.003 seconds while he swung from left to right to outbreak Kimi.

The point here is that in the spirit of the law, at the last race Massa should have been given a drive-through penalty on safety grounds - in order to gain fractions of a second, he contravened safety rules - no two ways about it - no argument - he was guilty and found guilty. Automatic ten second drive through. He was deemed guilty but only fined!

In the spirit of the law Hamilton knew that he had gained an advantage by exiting the chicaine ahead of Raikonnen. So he gave the place back! This is in the spirit of the law. From what I can gather, those arguing that the stewards were correct are pointing to the fact that Hamilton should have allowed Raikonnen to be ahead at Eau Rouge - but nowhere does it say that the driver in the lead must lead into the next corner.

Both in the spirit and the letter of the law the result should have stood. It was brilliant racing! Both in the spirit and letter of the law Massa should have been given a drive-through penalty. There is no consistency! If Hamilton is worthy of being given a 25 second penalty here, then Massa was worthy at the last race!

I think that what would have happened if this was Schumacher in a Ferrari. We'd have been saying what a genius he is. Fact is that Hamilton had by far the faster car. In the previous 25 seconds Hamilton took so much out of Raikonnen, that is is difficult to say that Hamilton gained any advantage by cutting the chicaine and then giving back the lead to Raikonnen. A point he then proved by outbreaking Raikonnen.

The only driver saying anything here is Lauda - and he is calling it the worst decision in formula 1 history. None of the other teams, or even ex-drivers is claiming that Hamilton should have been penalised. Basically - everyone knows that Hamilton is being penalised because he is not in a Ferrari.

If I were Hamilton I'd just retire from F1 and go to one of the US Formulas. Fortunately I'm not and Hamilton is a great man and is just ignoring what they're doing to him and keeping focussed on the grand prize - the world championship. That's why he earns millions and I'm posting here!
 
tintedsepia said:
Both in the spirit and the letter of the law the result should have stood. It was brilliant racing! Both in the spirit and letter of the law Massa should have been given a drive-through penalty. There is no consistency! If Hamilton is worthy of being given a 25 second penalty here, then Massa was at the last race.

The only driver saying anything here is Lauda - and he is calling it the worst decision in formula 1 history. None of the other teams, or even ex-drivers is claiming that Hamilton should have been penalised.
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Summed up perfectly. Rules should be applied by the spirit, but in the case where it isn't, the letter has to be applied evenly and consistantly. And that blatantly isn't the case here

The fact that Lauda has come out so strongly speaks volumes. He won a title in the McClaren, but he'll always be remembered as a Ferrari driver, for his championships there and his horrific crash. He's essentially accused them and the FIA of having the relationship many on here including me believe they've had for some time. And its to the utter detriment of the sport, because people want to see racing. Ok if someone breaks the rules, they have to be punished. But Hamilton did what you're expected to do in such circumstances, he gave the place back. When the other car is going faster than you because you let them through, slipstream matters feck all. And you can blink faster than he was actually in it. Its a con, and its made the sport look silly, and no-one is buying it. The FIA will now blatantly cling to their rule book as a means of defending their decision to make themselves look less foolish, the same rules they blatantly cast aside when Massa was guilty of breaking them in Valencia
 
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